INFJ/ESTP compatibility

Nothing in this world could come close to hurting me more than indifference from someone I love.

I may have been the one to call it over, but that doesn't mean that I don't still love him very much. That will NEVER be the case. My love will gradually change to that of family, but it will never go away. I don't get how someone can shut off love and go to indifference ... I'd rather he hate me!
 
CokeNut said:
I don't get how someone can shut off love and go to indifference ... I'd rather he hate me!
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someone else can probably explain a lot better than i could...


sumone said:
I've been emotionally shut down like that and then later on got hit with a damn burst of repressed emotions. I hope that won't happen to you.
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heh, it'll happen... just a matter of when... and a matter of how long it will last...

the last one lasted for well over 2 yrs...
 
I want to express my compassion for you both, and though I have no MBTI insights to offer (I can't type people) I do feel the need to say that I don't think this situation is merely a matter of Type vs Type, so I don't think a comfortable resolution necessarily lies within our general type descriptions.

Whatever our MBTI types, we are still individuals with wildly varying life experiences, and therefore different defense mechanisms.

Even among the INFJs here on this forum, I believe the responses to the situation you two are working your way through might be very different indeed.

My heart goes out to you, MJ and CokeNut :(
 
Thank you all for your support and understanding .... I'm sure I speak for us both when I say we appreciate it.

And Zen you are correct that it is not just Type issues that are at play, there is alot more ...

I know in my heart that Jax and I will come around and we are going to be able to move forward with a very special friendship ... I guess I'll just brace myself for whatever comes after indifference.
 
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Motor Jax said:
someone else can probably explain a lot better than i could...
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Actually, I think I can. But without specifics, it is hard to say . . . for me, emotional indifference is a coping mechanism somewhere between trying very hard for a long time to care for someone or something with no reciprocation, and at the same time, trying very hard not to hate said someone or something for their lack of recognition that I'm making an effort. It is highly individualized, even for INFJ's.
 
I realize this is an ancient thread, but I was Googling for some information about ESTP/INFJ relationships and ran across this, and found it highly interesting. I thought the progression of the relationship caught here was both illuminating and, to me, a potential harbinger of doom.

I don't want to cross-post, as I posted about my situation on a more recent thread here:

http://www.infjs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18508&p=532814#post532814

I really would like to hear from people who are in ESTP/INFJ relationships, to find out what works and what doesn't, if there's hope or if I should run from my current ESTP man. I feel a bit like The Fool from the tarot deck, about to step off into the abyss. Advice is appreciated.
 
I'm in a band with an ESTP; and being in a band is a bit like being married. It hasn't been over a year, and I'm already seeing quite a few problems. Our philosophies are rapidly changing, as we both respectively embrace our IN-ness and ES-ness. I'm not sure what brought us together in the first place, but looking ahead, I can already see that it's not going to work out long-term. We're both going down our own separate paths, becoming who we are meant to be.
I'll be happy to continue the relationship as long as possible, but it'll be hard when we don't have much in common to begin with.

If I were attracted to men, and this were a romantic relationship, I could see the lure of an ESTP. They are socially confident, they are risk-takers, and they are very fun to be around. It would be exciting to be involved with someone like that for a short time, but I think I would be fooling myself if I thought it would work out long-term. I don't think there is as much in common on a deeper level as there needs to be.
 
Thanks for the response, subwayrider. It sounds like you have your own intense relationship going on as well.

I don't know if other INFJs do this, but from time to time when I'm feeling lost or confused, I'll do a tarot card reading or an I Ching reading, or randomly select a passage from the Bible as a form of guidance. I always get something out of it, even if it's just helping to bring up things in my own subconscious coupled with some age-old wisdom. In any case, I did an I Ching reading about this, and found the results useful:

The Image

This is the Image of Sun - The Penetrating Wind

Sun
Sun

The Significance of the Image

The upper trigram is Wind. The lower trigram is also Wind. In nature, it is the wind which disperses the gathering clouds Once the clouds are removed, darkness vanishes and Sun or light shines once again. In human lives, It is the analytical or panetrating part of judgement brings clarity and vision and clears all dark prejudices and negative thoughts. In the larger context of whole civilization, from time to time a great prophet comes and through his powerful influence evil is destroyed and the rule of dharma or goodness is restablished. This is the hexagram signifying the arrival of a prophet during a time when the world is ruled by 'Adharma' and powerful evil forces.

The Judgement

The gentle wind above
meets the gentle wind below
It penetrates into every hook and corner
The Superior man reaffirms his Faith
Success in small steps
Improvement if you advance
In the direction of Faith
You must meet the wise prophet.

I Ching advice

Surrender yourself to the penetrating influence of your partner's nature. Do not try to force your own nature on your partner. Love and force do not coexist. Love is the antithesis of force. If you naturally accept and approve of each other's personality, then love will blossom in your relationship dispersing the clouds of mistrust and insecurity in your relationship.



Seemed very pertinent. :)
 
I fell pretty hard for an ESTP guy when I was in my early 30's and it was a real love/hate thing. He was charming, handsome, successful, and the way his body moved reminded me of a tiger. He was not someone that I could have a conversation with -- he would actually tell me that I think too much. He was incredibly self absorbed and narcissitic and had an assumption of entitlement--I don't think that was due to his temperament, but was more related to his good looks. Basically, when I watched him in action, I was mesmerized. But when I reflected on things he SAID, I found him to be far too shallow and didn't like him at all. Think "Gaston" from Beauty and the Beast -- he was in love with himself.

Why can't I have an NF with the skills and charm of an SP? LOL
 
Note: this post is responsive, but off topic.

et selec: I'm only going to offer my personal experience and leave you to sort through things on your own.

I knew from junior high that I had a knack for telling fortunes. It's basically shere empathy -- you make broad statments and then follow the other's reaction to the more specific. It's actually a little disconcerting to me that other don't spot what you are really doing. Things like astrology, Tarot, I Ching, etc. are basically lattices upon which to constuct your reading. You could just as easily look for pictures in the clouds, the dispersion of egg yolks, or the pattern of entrails spilled all over the floor.

Anyhow, it wasn't important in my life until my late thirties, when I was going through a religious disillusionment and experimenting with things. It was a very trendy time for New Age stuff. It shocked me that my readings were so good that I had people flying down from San Francisco to have me do a Tarot reading. IT MADE ME FEEL GIFTED AND SPECIAL. And that is where the corruption began. The conceit poisoned my soul.

One day on a whim, I did a Tarot reading on myself, and the results were that I had become evil beyond redemption. My friend could not calm me down. I finally decided that I was going to live by a strict moral code, even if I was beyond redemption, even if there was no reward for doing so, simply for the sake of being a good person rather than an evil person. I burned the cards and have never done any divination since.

I hope that is helpful to you. If not, at least you got to read a good story. :D
 
My very best friend is ESTP. I hate his guts.
 
Thanks, GracieRuth and aerosol, for sharing. I think this is just not going to work in the long run, because as fascinating as he is, it's going to just be too stressful to work for long. Probably we'd be better off going back to friendship. Too much of the love/hate thing.

And this should probably be its own thread entirely, but...

GracieRuth: Your fortune telling experiences are interesting, thanks for relating them. I used to do Tarot readings for my high school friends and relatives a long time ago, and was scarily good at it, for the reasons you mention. I also gave up doing readings and threw away all my Tarot decks, mainly because I was scared of how accurate they were and also that most of the time they were predicting negative things (or I was, using them) which did not seem to be helpful to the people I was doing readings for. It's as though giving them the idea that this fortune was going to happen to them (although I always had a disclaimer that the future can change) somehow would result in things turning out that way, because somewhere in the back of their minds they thought that it would.

I did eventually get one Tarot deck for personal use, though I don't do it very often. I converted to Christianity a few years back and thought doing readings was more than a little blasphemous, but I've come around to the belief that God speaks to us in different ways (and I mean that in the sense that I don't expect everyone to have to belong to the same religion or any religion at all, and you can still be a good person.) So I sometimes (not very frequently) will do a reading for myself to see what thoughts bubble up in reaction to the cards, realizing that it's just a way of meditating about my life, but not expecting anything there to be predictive.

I can understand why you have eschewed the cards, though - it wasn't helping you, it seems to me. I suppose if I got a "don't do this anymore" reading like that, I would give them up again, too. In any case, it's interesting to see that perhaps other INFJs actually do have this "mystic" side that I read about sometimes.
 
This is a precarious subject, in which we must tread carefully. I have been in two relationships with ESTPs, and the two experiences were as different as can be. WHilst I know that I am by no means an expert on the type, I feel that there is a great diversity within it - in my opinion, more so than any other type. My first relationship with an ESTP lasted two months, and that was too long; she was unreasonably confrontational, inconsiderate and closed minded. It was a bit like this - :m106:

My second relationship with an ESTP lasted a year and a half, and was extraordinarily successful. The second ESTP was the closest thing to a soul-mate I have come across - she was funny, intelligent, honest and hardworking. We experienced quite a few conflicts, but we resolved them quickly (thanks to her straight forward attitude and my insight into the situation), and the experience was beneficial to both of us. Sadly, she passed on from this world and into whatever lies in the abyss...

I wish you all the best for the future, and hope that things turn out swell for you and your :m023:
 
So sorry for your loss, AzulSoul. And you're right - I can't say that his type perfectly defines what his behavior will be and there is always variation within a type. Let's hope I encountered one of the good ones. ;) I guess I can't really decide anything at this point and will just have to go with the flow. I hate going with the flow. ;)
 
me= infj him= estp. we've been going at it for about two years now with one boy child as a result. :). This is a very trying relationship. although i havent been in one that wasn't. we are so incredibly attracted to each other. i think the biggest issue with us being compatible is that the things that drive him.. or the things that are most natural to him are dispicable in my eyes. the things that most drive me make me look weak to him. i wouldnt classify myself as weak by any means. i am the type of person that will not back down until i am treated as an equal. he is so beautiful in so many ways and i'm sure he thinks the same of me. we are both faithful. i usually know how to stimulate him. it's usually me who gets bored with his superficiality. the first post in this thread explains us perfect. we try very hard to work it out but with each conflict it is harder and harder. i sense that he is unwilling to grow. mostly because he is afraid to admit he is wrong. we have developed a way to get around our differences in lifestyle. we both just try to accompany the other in whatever it is we wish to enjoy that day. i have enough patience to try and teach him to think ahead. he is the one who loses patience with it. i lose patience with his persistence with looking at the small details instead of the big picture. he would rather argue than come to a conclusion. he very much enjoys causing me emotional distress which i have not been able to show him that is unacceptable and disrespectful. he understands this but it does not move him. he is too curious to see what i will do when he does not respond to my pleas for fairness. estp and infj is really an uphill battle. i think the estp's are a little too immature to deal with the infj. they are so alike but opposite which is exhilarating. Another thought is that physically we seem to be compatible and i know how to please him and be generous. that may be one of the things that keeps him around. i wouldnt recommend this relationship with much confidence. many infj's wouldn't know how to stay afloat. I think a more passive infj would be better with estp as i usually assert myself 24/7 which he loves but i hate. i have a delusion that the work would pay off when in reality for him its just a little dessert before bed.
 
i would like to add something positive here. through our time together he has learned to be more like me and me like him. we do teach each other something fierce and constantly never-endingly
 
omg

i sometimes find myself wondering how CokeNut is doing..
i loved her.. i still do..
i was never indifferent, i was hurt..

i miss her, so much...

i know she prob won't ever check this thread again but 'if' she does then i want her to know i am sorry..
and i've never stopped thinking about her...

sry, plz continue... i was just putting this out there...
 
INFJ and ESTP are duals, not conflictors (that would be INFJ and ESTJ). Socionics relations of duality is the one to be looking at, not relations of conflict.

The relationship is supposed to be easiest to last long out of all the personality combinations, as long as both parties remain open-minded and willing to grow and see beyond their own egos. The reason it often doesn't work is because people have egos, and push the necessity of constant growth and realignment of themselves with the ever-changing outer world, into their subconsciousness.
 
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