INFJ:Fantastic Brain Healers but Terrible Psychologists

Read the title and at first I was like, "Oh no..." but this totally makes sense.

Chessie said:
INFJ's do their best work when they can use their intuition rather than a strict manual for how things are done.
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I've found that INFJs have a big contradiction of their hands. They may be really good at what they do, but it rarely fits into institutionalized way of doing things.

It's the same issue with Law and the Police- the reasons for joining the Police seem fantastic to me and something that an INFJ could be good at because fundamentally the job is about protecting people and making them safe and keeping harmony and peace (of course, I'm aware that this is actually far from the case in reality, but still, that is what the job should be about). However the INFJ in their infinite counter-culturalism will probably feel absolutely dwarfed by the oppressive nature of "the system" which was built by SJs- for SJs. Like you said, the INFJ has an intuitive grasp on what must be done and how to do it. But procedures, politics, bureaucracy will get in the way of their simple and pure intention.

Now you could say everyone has that problem but to an INFJ, who has an intrinsic understanding of how things can be fixed and how things should be, this would probably cause a massive moral inner tension in them. More so then other types. INFJs aren't that great at playing the system either (as opposed to ESXP's), they need a clear and uncluttered space to do their best, so they are more likely to wait for opportunities then force them through protest and conflict. I mean it's possible for an INFJ to uphold a prolonged controversy and protest but such actions takes huge amounts of energy- their throughput for that kind of action has less efficiency [ > Ti > Se = inferior in efficiency]

Chessie said:
To this end while INFJ's may be the best of brain-fixers we operate very poorly as psychologists because A, we are often required to work with EVERYONE who comes through the door and B, we're restricted in the level of involvement we're allowed to have. I realize there are safety reasons for those restrictions but there are also people in this world it is possible to help who are simply hopeless within those strictures.
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To be fair, this is something all would-be psychologists would have to acknowledge, whether your an INFJ or not. Some people are beyond helping, seriously fucked up people may never get better and they'll probably end up on a trail of pharmaceuticals rather than therapy or counselling.

You're making it sound as if INFJs only have the capacity to help people in nice, non-confrontational, congenial environments and that harder or more severe cases are beyond their capabilities because... because why?
 
I...actually think the entire rest of the post pretty much said INFJ's can help people outside of safe, congenial, non-confrontational environments and that we perhaps even do our best work outside of said conditions.
 
Chessie,

I have the sense you speak for your own experience and then translate that out to everyone of the infj type. I do not think your generalizations are accurate across the board.

I think there is some insightful observations there, but I think they speak more to your own experience than to the experience (and abilities) of the infj type as a whole.
 
I always leave open the possibility that I am insane. I consider it one of the most likely explanations.
 
Chessie said:
Okay, before you flame me I've got to qualify this.

I have a number of friends who are INFJ's and on track to become psychologists and I want to put this out there from their experience and my own.

When I am involved in a 'healing' situation where I am working with a person, I tend to cross a great many of their boundaries and find hidden hurts and fears. In the end, they come away more clear-headed and at peace. This involves any one of a long list of strategies which the American psychological establishment would find bizarre to say the least and yet they work.

Empathizing with people, getting involved in their emotions, getting involved in their lives and giving them a feeling that someone DOES care seems to just restructure a person in a way that the very isolated 'Doctor/patient' relationship doesn't.

Now, when I give someone advice on whatever silly situation they've gotten into and they come back to me later (having survived if they listened or crashed and burned if they didn't) it's nice to hear their thanks but I all too often get this. 'You're so good with people! You should be a psychologist!'

No. Seriously. Just no.

What INFJ's do is not suited to the realm of the psychologist in it's modern methodology.

I often find myself needing to make out that I am some what psychic to get people to listen to me. Largely it is a matter of supreme empathy and close observation but there is nothing magical about it. Still, people listen if you sound like you've got a line in on the cosmic powers that be. This is why people still read horoscopes.

In a psychologist's office there are a list of expectations not the least of which is that the psychologist will help you if you pay them. I much prefer to pick my patients because a great myth of modern psychology is that 'You can help everyone.'

Bullocks. You cannot help everyone. Even an INFJ at the height of their internal balance with years of training cannot help everyone without investing UNSPEAKABLE quantities of resources into rebuilding a person. More often than not, people require time and in cases of terrible damage, a feeling of safety and isolation from the environment which caused the damage. If you can't give them that then there's no sense in taking 60 bucks an hour once every two weeks.

To my mind that's theft.

INFJ's do their best work when they can use their intuition rather than a strict manual for how things are done.

To this end while INFJ's may be the best of brain-fixers we operate very poorly as psychologists because A, we are often required to work with EVERYONE who comes through the door and B, we're restricted in the level of involvement we're allowed to have. I realize there are safety reasons for those restrictions but there are also people in this world it is possible to help who are simply hopeless within those strictures.

For a depressed house-wife, go to a psychologist.

For a rape, for a dead lover, for a child soldier, for a murdered husband...come to the INFJ in a properly balanced state of mind. The brain is our realm and this is as it should be...but not if we have to do things by the book.

P.S. It's not like we're going to say no if someone asks for our help. Seriously, we're kinda dumb like that sometimes.
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This is partly why I'm wary of counseling. Counseling is often too structured and the idea of fixing someone doesn't fit. People can not be put on a schedule to heal. And I know I would have a hard time not relating or getting involved with those I help. That's what we do.

So thats why I'm doing Sociology instead. I can help and learn about people but I feel like I can do more than just fix one person at a time. And it may be in personal but it branches of well into many different areas.

Res said:
Agree with this. I sometimes left the therapist's office feeling as if i was being duped; made to think that my problems would just go away with a simple change in thinking, as if being in a particular situation with constraints didn't or wouldn't have an effect on how i could effectively respond. It isn't healthy. You begin to believe that nothing should affect you, or you don't have the right to feel restrained or restricted by your circumstances, since mentally you should be able to transcend everything. To put so much pressure on the self can be damaging. You expect more of yourself than you could possibly deliver.
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Yes counseling doesn't let you feel things. You get over things so you can be fixed. I remembered I stopped going to counseling because they wanted to fix me and I wanted to feel everything and process it. I wanted to move past it naturally they where more worried about making me look and think I was ok but not being ok.



Orion said:
Read the title and at first I was like, "Oh no..." but this totally makes sense.



I've found that INFJs have a big contradiction of their hands. They may be really good at what they do, but it rarely fits into institutionalized way of doing things.

It's the same issue with Law and the Police- the reasons for joining the Police seem fantastic to me and something that an INFJ could be good at because fundamentally the job is about protecting people and making them safe and keeping harmony and peace (of course, I'm aware that this is actually far from the case in reality, but still, that is what the job should be about). However the INFJ in their infinite counter-culturalism will probably feel absolutely dwarfed by the oppressive nature of "the system" which was built by SJs- for
 SJs. Like you said, the INFJ has an intuitive grasp on what must be done and how to do it. But procedures, politics, bureaucracy will get in the way of their simple and pure intention.
Now you could say everyone has that problem but to an INFJ, who has an intrinsic understanding of how things can be fixed and how things should be, this would probably cause a massive moral inner tension in them. More so then other types. INFJs aren't that great at playing the system either (as opposed to ESXP's), they need a clear and uncluttered space to do their best, so they are more likely to wait for opportunities then force them through protest and conflict. I mean it's possible for an INFJ to uphold a prolonged controversy and protest but such actions takes huge amounts of energy- their throughput for that kind of action has less efficiency [ > Ti > Se = inferior in efficiency]



To be fair, this is something all would-be psychologists would have to acknowledge, whether your an INFJ or not. Some people are beyond helping, seriously fucked up people may never get better and they'll probably end up on a trail of pharmaceuticals rather than therapy or counselling.

You're making it sound as if INFJs only have the capacity to help people in nice, non-confrontational, congenial environments and that harder or more severe cases are beyond their capabilities because... because why?
Click to expand...

The part that I bolded seems to be the story of my life. The red tape just gets in the way. And makes it impossible to do what needs to be done.
 
I do find that INFJ's tend to make brilliant telephone councillors, lifeline, kids helpine etc [australian]
I used to do it, and most of the other people doing it were INFJ's too. I remember one group doing the test one night.

but yeah, I tend to agree with the first post. I find my INFJ friends tend to find it hard to say what needs to be said sometimes.
 
Chessie must be my sister. She believes that people who go see a psychologist are really just compensating for the fact that no one loves them, and are essentially just "paying for friendship." She thinks people should just go find friends by themselves.
Easy for you to say, INFP friend-finding machine. I can't make friends for my life, I get myself into these little one sided relationships where I give you all the advice and counseling you need, and all I get on it is maybe a little smile from your face. Maybe no one loves me, more likely though is that everyone takes my advice then leaves. Where are you going? I'm not a counselor, I don't want to be. You don't just pay me, and then we stop talking. That's not how it works.
God I'm so confused, I want to help people but I don't want to stop talking once they're helped, but I don't want them to nag me just because I showed them my nice side once, I want to pick my friends and keep them forever, I don't want to buy them, I don't want them to buy me, what am I?
 
Ultrauber, I think there's something wrong with your text. Half of that message is invisible. I'm not being sarcastic at all. I just was curious how that was done.
 
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IndigoSensor said:
+1 to the letter. Even the part about having an INFJ therapist, and being the best ever.
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+2, I dont even know what "generalities of clinical psychology" is supposed to mean, every person is different, and as such every clinical psychologists job is to learn that person and perfect a method to help them according to their needs, not fit them into some specific mold. I would venture to say a psychologist who would do that, is not an INFJ at all. Brain healing IS psychology/therapy... and INFJs are perfectly suited to it. Couldnt disagree with 90% of the OP more.
 
tovlo said:
Chessie,

I have the sense you speak for your own experience and then translate that out to everyone of the infj type. I do not think your generalizations are accurate across the board.

I think there is some insightful observations there, but I think they speak more to your own experience than to the experience (and abilities) of the infj type as a whole.
Click to expand...

+1

Fe dom *cough cough*
 
I think the big problem with an INFJ being a psychiatrist has to do with the fact that the whole medical field is an apprenticeship type profession: you go through school, you do a residency (i.e. the shadow day from hell that lasts for years), you take tests and more tests and more tests and ONLY THEN are you able to finally do your own thing and help people.

Psychiatrists are not taught how to help an individual person, they are taught an arsenal of strategies that IN THEORY help in certain circumstances. However, it takes something more to REALLY be able to help someone.

So, I think if you can survive the frustration and pain and dog-gone irritation of jumping through ALL the red tape of school and everything else, if you can make it out alive and not too jaded, THEN you can open your own practice and help people the way you see fit (given that you don't violate any laws... duh :)).

The benefit of an INFJ who is a psychiatrist (as opposed to the unofficial counselor sort), is that they have been taught (supposedly) a thorough understanding of brain chemistry and therefore, they can prescribe medicine where it is genuinely needed.

But I do agree that the journey to becoming a psychiatrist would be wicked frustrating up to the day you open your own practice that is run YOUR way!
 
One thing I've noticed is that a true professional is trained to behave both from inside and outside of his or her personality. That is, there is the evidence based, objective, scientific therapy that is taught and has been proven to work. There are also the unique, special talents and skills one draws from one's personality and experience. The combination of the two is what makes the most effective therapist. Any strongly motivated person can learn the first. The second depends on the individual, and given the rare abilities of the typical INFJ, I can't think of a better personality to provide psychological care.
 
Just had a pretty negative experience, I think part of the problem was to an extent we got along pretty reasonably, on a personal level. Although ENFJs have a tendency to want to change each other, I felt like he wanted to change me.

He would tell me I was playing the victim story, and then say I just want to have fun with you, and want to go for candy. It is an unconventional treatment center. Well, in terms of location, but still a lot of traditional treatment models. He would claim I had boundary issues, and he was working on himself to set boundaries, not just with me. I felt like it blurred the line of profession. By all means if I had a personal relationship, I could be more pat ain't with this sort of thing. It just seems like he had a problem with my Fe, and wanted me to tone it down.

He was my primary theosopist, and opted to put someone I don't like in charge, instead. He said so the people, who I liked, could stay fun, including him. When that wasn't what I needed. Also don't think the people he mentioned were worried, about losing a reputation of being fun. I mean we had fun at times, but don't know where that came from. Not, sure if it was an inferior Se coming out, or what, but it confused me. He, and I had fun too, but when their was a conflict I wasn't thinking he wasn't fun. It was just completely off my radar.

However there were some other factors, like I'm pretty sure the pchyiatrist was probably an ENTJ, and had the ultimate say. Also my parents paid, so they had a heavy influence. Although I still feel like he took the lazy way out, and criticized instead of seeing me as individual, who had my own path, and sometimes, needed to vent, and didn't always see a way out of a situation. Playing a victim story, just seems so narrow minded, and like an unproductive lense.
 
Chessie said:
Okay, before you flame me I've got to qualify this.

I have a number of friends who are INFJ's and on track to become psychologists and I want to put this out there from their experience and my own.

When I am involved in a 'healing' situation where I am working with a person, I tend to cross a great many of their boundaries and find hidden hurts and fears. In the end, they come away more clear-headed and at peace. This involves any one of a long list of strategies which the American psychological establishment would find bizarre to say the least and yet they work.

Empathizing with people, getting involved in their emotions, getting involved in their lives and giving them a feeling that someone DOES care seems to just restructure a person in a way that the very isolated 'Doctor/patient' relationship doesn't.

Now, when I give someone advice on whatever silly situation they've gotten into and they come back to me later (having survived if they listened or crashed and burned if they didn't) it's nice to hear their thanks but I all too often get this. 'You're so good with people! You should be a psychologist!'

No. Seriously. Just no.

What INFJ's do is not suited to the realm of the psychologist in it's modern methodology.

I often find myself needing to make out that I am some what psychic to get people to listen to me. Largely it is a matter of supreme empathy and close observation but there is nothing magical about it. Still, people listen if you sound like you've got a line in on the cosmic powers that be. This is why people still read horoscopes.

In a psychologist's office there are a list of expectations not the least of which is that the psychologist will help you if you pay them. I much prefer to pick my patients because a great myth of modern psychology is that 'You can help everyone.'

Bullocks. You cannot help everyone. Even an INFJ at the height of their internal balance with years of training cannot help everyone without investing UNSPEAKABLE quantities of resources into rebuilding a person. More often than not, people require time and in cases of terrible damage, a feeling of safety and isolation from the environment which caused the damage. If you can't give them that then there's no sense in taking 60 bucks an hour once every two weeks.

To my mind that's theft.

INFJ's do their best work when they can use their intuition rather than a strict manual for how things are done.

To this end while INFJ's may be the best of brain-fixers we operate very poorly as psychologists because A, we are often required to work with EVERYONE who comes through the door and B, we're restricted in the level of involvement we're allowed to have. I realize there are safety reasons for those restrictions but there are also people in this world it is possible to help who are simply hopeless within those strictures.

For a depressed house-wife, go to a psychologist.

For a rape, for a dead lover, for a child soldier, for a murdered husband...come to the INFJ in a properly balanced state of mind. The brain is our realm and this is as it should be...but not if we have to do things by the book.

P.S. It's not like we're going to say no if someone asks for our help. Seriously, we're kinda dumb like that sometimes.
Click to expand...
I know I am late to this thread but I agree with you 100%. People going through this messed up shit needs someone who can not only solve their problems but also make them feel like they are there for them like a friend!. Every soul can be healed if they are given enough love and helped them in their difficult times.
I also want to add that modern psychology is more going towards nueroscience because that's how it can becomes more empirical. But that's not what psychology is! It's ok if its not tangible, not everything needs to be tangible.
 
In the end this "industry" is like so much else where usually there is only surface level help and a lot of meds for which people or the state is fleeced for every nickle and dime. As for helping people there is a lot in the way due to social and often religious/spiritual as well cultural upbringing so a lot gets pushed off into some dark space within themselves until it becomes a very real problem.
 
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