[INFJ] INFJ (M) and ENFP (F) had a fight after a 6th date and she wants to be friends now?

[CuriousENFP]

ENFP here-I have similar vibes to that girl, but I don't want to hurt anyone like the way she did, using ur money and spending it all. But I think immature ENFPs like me tend to be flirty and shy, and bounce around quite a bit. I like to be validated and I like to be loved by different friend groups, and seen as attractive to many people. I went out with an INFJ and I was very flakey(true to the stereotype,wtf), and afterwards I started trusting him but suddenly became very shy. But regardless, she went overboard. I wouldn't want someone to pay for my meals, and I am sorry to hear that she strung you along.
Personally, there were guy friends who started liking me, and I got to admit, I loved the attention but wasn't into them. They were financially worse off also because they were not working while I was. I tried to tell them gently in the end that I was not interested/hoping that they would pull up their socks and become more financially stable before finding a gf. Also objectively/subjectively they were not attractive to me at all.
When I was younger, I actually tried dating people that I wasn't into-hopefully their personality might make me fall in love with them-didn't work. Could it be what was happening with this girl?
But the recent INFJ I had a crush on, I wasn't really attracted to his looks, but I liked his personality, mannerisms and intellect, and it just happens.

 

[Deleted member 16771]

ENFP here-I have similar vibes to that girl, but I don't want to hurt anyone like the way she did, using ur money and spending it all. But I think immature ENFPs like me tend to be flirty and shy, and bounce around quite a bit. I like to be validated and I like to be loved by different friend groups, and seen as attractive to many people. I went out with an INFJ and I was very flakey(true to the stereotype,wtf), and afterwards I started trusting him but suddenly became very shy. But regardless, she went overboard. I wouldn't want someone to pay for my meals, and I am sorry to hear that she strung you along.
Personally, there were guy friends who started liking me, and I got to admit, I loved the attention but wasn't into them. They were financially worse off also because they were not working while I was. I tried to tell them gently in the end that I was not interested/hoping that they would pull up their socks and become more financially stable before finding a gf. Also objectively/subjectively they were not attractive to me at all.
When I was younger, I actually tried dating people that I wasn't into-hopefully their personality might make me fall in love with them-didn't work. Could it be what was happening with this girl?
But the recent INFJ I had a crush on, I wasn't really attracted to his looks, but I liked his personality, mannerisms and intellect, and it just happens.

Fucking hell, lol.

Well I applaud your honesty, at least.

 

[ordz404]

ENFP here-I have similar vibes to that girl, but I don't want to hurt anyone like the way she did, using ur money and spending it all. But I think immature ENFPs like me tend to be flirty and shy, and bounce around quite a bit. I like to be validated and I like to be loved by different friend groups, and seen as attractive to many people. I went out with an INFJ and I was very flakey(true to the stereotype,wtf), and afterwards I started trusting him but suddenly became very shy. But regardless, she went overboard. I wouldn't want someone to pay for my meals, and I am sorry to hear that she strung you along.
Personally, there were guy friends who started liking me, and I got to admit, I loved the attention but wasn't into them. They were financially worse off also because they were not working while I was. I tried to tell them gently in the end that I was not interested/hoping that they would pull up their socks and become more financially stable before finding a gf. Also objectively/subjectively they were not attractive to me at all.
When I was younger, I actually tried dating people that I wasn't into-hopefully their personality might make me fall in love with them-didn't work. Could it be what was happening with this girl?
But the recent INFJ I had a crush on, I wasn't really attracted to his looks, but I liked his personality, mannerisms and intellect, and it just happens.

Hey just curious, would you mind telling me your age range? You dont have to give me an exact number if you don't feel comfortable with that.

 

[CuriousENFP]

23-27

 

[SpecialEdition]

I am not an ENFP but I have done this to people. It was never intended to be malicious or hurtful. In these situations the potential relationship looked good on paper and I tried to give the individuals a chance and also give myself a chance to get to know them so that I could make a fully informed decision about where I wanted things to go. Unfortunately they were more interested in me than I was in them at the onset and I couldn't meet them where they were at. When I was younger I didn't really have a concept of how to walk away or terminate things and I think I caused people more pain than necessary because of it. On one hand, I knew they deserved better than I could give them and on the other I even felt a little resentful that they expected so much out of me so soon when we barely knew each other and because of that it just got messy. Ideally I would have known I wasn't interested just as fast as they knew they were interested but that's just not how it works sometimes. Dating is sometimes shitty.

All this to say, she may not have intentionally been using you or misleading you or maybe she was but it doesn't actually matter. The information you have now says she doesn't want to pursue a romantic relationship and the way she went about rationalizing that was pretty bizarre but now you know that nothing will happen and you can cut her loose. I wouldn't want to keep her friendship and the way she dealt with this she shouldn't expect you to be ok with being friends either.

 

[ordz404]

All this to say, she may not have intentionally been using you or misleading you or maybe she was but it doesn't actually matter. The information you have now says she doesn't want to pursue a romantic relationship and the way she went about rationalizing that was pretty bizarre but now you know that nothing will happen and you can cut her loose. I wouldn't want to keep her friendship and the way she dealt with this she shouldn't expect you to be ok with being friends either.

Well, i think the more frustrating thing is the inability for her to be honest, the fact that i was clear in my mind asking her permission to date, and to address this situation in a most sudden way has been rather dis-tasteful. To regard intention and permission as a joke... i dont really have much to left to say about it. There wasn't the "I'm not sure about this, can we be clear that we're dating as friends first?....No, but the flirting went on, There was no intentionality on her end to pace and take it slow. It was just ambiguous, and it feels awful to be "played".

Sure it can just be a matter of she being unsure of what she wanted. Its just sudden, without warning because everything just seem liked it was going well and we weren't fighting and even in our last date there weren't signs of withdrawal. Well, i guess you're right, it doesn't really matter anymore at this point. I'm not going to force something she doesn't want, and i don't want this matter to consume more of my mental energy than it need to. I didn't understand why we needed to fight suddenly, and her adamant position to justify what a date is. But anyways, its clear - she doesn't want to date anymore so i'm not gonna hang around. I was pretty restrained in my response, and honestly i'd like to have told her "eh i have enough friends to come around. I don't need more friends , infact let me say hi to mr dark."

This isn't someone i met on a dating site. She was someone i did have some level of friendship back and forth with many years ago. But i guess, her response after me having said my piece will also be testament to her character and emotional maturity. I do find myself strange as INFJ, i somehow feel im a little more pro-active in wanting to resolve issues and having a high desire for clarity in communication.

 

[Asa]

Hmmmm.... OK.

I definitely let male friends pay for things if they offered when I was younger, and before I was married. I also accepted gifts and favors. At the time I considered this "normal". I call this "beauty privilege" because people (mostly women) who attract a lot of admirers grow accustomed to receiving gifts, favors, and help to get what they want out of life. I am not proud of this, and I changed as I matured. However, one thing is very clear: Whenever a man asked to date me, or asked me to be his girlfriend, I understood exactly what he meant and said, "No," if I wasn't interested. This question is clear.

My attitude now is that "nothing is free". If I receive a gift or favor, I owe a gift or favor. I've had many discussions with women (mostly younger, but not always) who disagree with me about this and think that if a man offers it is free for them to take without any strings. Perhaps the only string is the woman's time and attention, but it is still a string.

 

[ordz404]

Well yeah sometimes I don’t know what would surprise me any more these days. I honestly wasn’t expecting this kind of situation out of someone who is in her mid 30s but then again physical age and emotional each or two very separate things and it was my misjudgement to have assumed that she would behave otherwise

Dear of course interesting things which and she said about herself especially when I teased her about being a thug she would deny that and tell me to call her princess and will I thought it was just part of her personality perhaps it does bring other kinds of connotations As to how she actually perceives herself

I must say that she is quite a cute lady but there were also signs that she might be emotionally unavailable but I kind of brushed it off as part of a personality. And equally concerning is that I don’t know if she meant it as a joke but she did say that now that she’s got her gift maybe she should run away so that was kind of a Red flag as well though cause I was teasing her about being a runaway lion

Well so like I said I’ve left her a text message and I’ve re-iterated my position said I was disappointed that we needed to put distance between us But I also said you’re always bothering you and if you want to talk then I will listen and I just left it as that and I’m intentionally choosing not to put in any more energy into reaching out since I believe I’ve made myself fairly clear about it

 

[Deleted member 16771]

Well yeah sometimes I don’t know what would surprise me any more these days. I honestly wasn’t expecting this kind of situation out of someone who is in her mid 30s but then again physical age and emotional each or two very separate things and it was my misjudgement to have assumed that she would behave otherwise

Dear of course interesting things which and she said about herself especially when I teased her about being a thug she would deny that and tell me to call her princess and will I thought it was just part of her personality perhaps it does bring other kinds of connotations As to how she actually perceives herself

I must say that she is quite a cute lady but there were also signs that she might be emotionally unavailable but I kind of brushed it off as part of a personality. And equally concerning is that I don’t know if she meant it as a joke but she did say that now that she’s got her gift maybe she should run away so that was kind of a Red flag as well though cause I was teasing her about being a runaway lion

Well so like I said I’ve left her a text message and I’ve re-iterated my position said I was disappointed that we needed to put distance between us But I also said you’re always bothering you and if you want to talk then I will listen and I just left it as that and I’m intentionally choosing not to put in any more energy into reaching out since I believe I’ve made myself fairly clear about it

I don't think you should listen at all.

This girl is garbage.

 

[Asa]

@ordz404 – The behavior I described is something I've witnessed with thirty-somethings and older, even with women in their fifties, either because they are naive about why it is going on, or because they know exactly what is going on and take advantage.
Sometimes women who don't accept gifts or free lunches are called names like "cold", and "bitch", though. This exchange is still expected to some degree. Women aren't necessarily evil for doing this, it's just residue from a different era when there were different social expectations. Personally, I'm more comfortable being called a "bitch" for rejecting a gift, than leading a man on. (Plus, the more devious a man's intent, the worse the names he calls me are, so it is a good indicator of dodging a bullet.)

In your case, your communication was clear and she pretended she didn't understand so she could get free meals and attention. You're better off turning your attention toward someone who will give you attention in return. Your communication skills will help you navigate. <3

 

[dZpADTLrPmX4c]

Plus, the more devious a man's intent, the worse the names he calls me are, so it is a good indicator of dodging a bullet.

I totally agree with Asa about this. And really everything she's mentioned. I refuse affectionate gifts by default, for the very reason that I'd rather not people feel used after they come to terms that I'm not interested - and had I been, buying gifts wouldn't be necessary. My personality may not have been like hers @ordz404 ; make of that what you will.

when I teased her about being a thug she would deny that and tell me to call her princess

This reminds me of a quote, I think by Margaret Thatcher. "If you must insist on being called a lady, then you're not."
Things like this or that she joked about 'running away after getting her gift' are definitely red flags. They're like testing the waters, done playfully, and to me implies it's habit in her relationships. That you said there were signs she was emotionally unavailable matches my internal picture of her too; it's why I thought she might possibly reach out to you in the future, and also why I feel she defended her concept of dating like she did. Her way of reasserting borders.

Is she garbage? Maybe. You could spend years helping somebody, see little progress & gain nothing. Or perhaps you'd be good friends (I doubt it'd be more). It's your time to use as you see fit. Not investing further energy though... that seems prudent to me.

Also, thank you for your restrained response. I feel that shows good character on your part ^_^

 

[Wyote]

when I teased her about being a thug she would deny that and tell me to call her princess

You want a lady who is a gangster and a princess.
Hard pass.

 

[ordz404]

@ordz404 –
Sometimes women who don't accept gifts or free lunches are called names like "cold", and "bitch", though. This exchange is still expected to some degree. Women aren't necessarily evil for doing this, <3

With regards to the gift I thought that was pretty obvious that she wanted it I get teased her about the gift on several occasions and clearly she knew what it was.

And when I teased her about not giving her the gift because she had failed to identify what it was when I teased her with a quiz she said that no that’s mine and that I should buy one more for myself.

So that was a very clear intention to Ramp up the teasing about the gift. And it wasn’t something that I gave suddenly it was a Christmas present that I had prepared already for some time and slowly tease her about it and then I said no I’m not giving it to you she would deliberately show me those cats eyes with water with watery tears know that your emoji

Until when I handed over the Christmas present to her she made a comment and said oh I’ve got the Gfit now maybe I should run away. She clearly knew what the Christmas present was and she clearly wanted it so it just wasn’t a gift that I gave suddenly out of the blue that was also deliberate

But you know the saying you’re someone shows you who they are you better believe it and if you wanna find out someone intention you should observe their behaviour treating the waiter or waitress.

In my own version I’ve showered her With my concern, care, wisdom and resources treated her with respect and this is what I get back so I suppose that behaviour itself is quite telling. And if someone mistreats the privileges that is given to them then it also shows a measure of their heart and maturity perhaps

 

[Professor Snep]

My attitude now is that "nothing is free".

Did you pay the gold or the iron price?

 

[Asa]

Did you pay the gold or the iron price?

Gold. I wouldn't have anything to do with someone I'd pay the price of iron with. LOL.
If a friend gives me a gift perhaps I won't return the favor immediately, but I make sure I do.

"To his friend a man should bear him as friend,
and gift for gift bestow,
laughter for laughter let him exchange,
but leasing pay for a lie."

and had I been, buying gifts wouldn't be necessary.

Exactly. No persuasion or devices are needed to get my attention if I'm interested.

@ordz404 – This woman sounds immature and selfish. I'm sad she used you. You'll meet someone better suited for you.

 

[ordz404]

@ordz404 – This woman sounds immature and selfish. I'm sad she used you. You'll meet someone better suited for you.

Yeap, sounds about pretty much how the cookie crumbles. Disappeared into thin air! Poooof! Maybe some people are conflict adverse. I find myself in a very strange place these days.
Not that I run head on into conflict, but im also learning more about myself on how I handle conflict in my 30s after being re-typed as INFJ. I waited a day, sent a text, waited a few more days and sent a text.
But there also comes a point when my patience runs out. And i'm like hokay, you do you, and i'll do me. Even being friends for more than 6 7 years, i suppose not all friendships even with the long history means nothing at this point.

Well I do appreciate the responses, Asa. Well, i guess its time to abandon-ship and swim back to the shoreline, wherever that is.

Ordz

 

[Pin]

Honestly, I've been in situations where I chase women and it's not good to do that. If she doesn't want to get to know you and you're not trying to be friends, just ignore her.

I know it sounds cold and mean to just ignore people but there's more important things to focus on than some flakey lady.

I know it hurts but it's for the better.

 

[Solomon Wood]

Alritghtyyy!! Woohoo! calling all INFJS and ENFPs to chime in!!

Here goes! INFJ guy here and was / is dating ENFP lass. We are both in our mid late 30s

I've been dating this ENFP lass for about 2 months. First 3 dates were casual just the two of us having dinners and chats, until the restaurant closed, we had long deep talks and time seemed to just pass until the stores closed. There was (in my opinion) good chemistry.. the banter the teasing and the occasional flirt, and her response of wanting to hit me back.

On the 4th date, i made my move and declared my intention, i asked her permission to date her officially and well we had 3 other dates officially. Things seem to head off on a good start, there wasn't any hand holding, but we got close when sitting to each other, very comfortable in each other's private space. I thought she was just shy and im pretty traditional in terms of dating so we weren't kissing and making out yet.

At this point we had some late night calls and we could chat for a good amount of time etc. Now here comes the kicker two sundays ago, I called her over the phone and just asked her how she was. The start of the conversation was the usual teasing and being silly me, since i was already comfortable being around her and had no issues showing my full self.

Suddenly she starts to bring up the topic about US, and says ... i don't know im thinking about US, and she started coming at me about mentioning us dating to a mutual couple friend of ours, and was curious about their experience when she was volunteering with them. The lass suddenly went ballistic on me saying that we're not dating... we're dating as friends. and went on to justify what her definition of dating is. So i was surprised and told her isn't this what we're doing? and her response was, "I thought that you asking me permission to date was a joke" and i'm like WTF? So i clarified and told her i wasn't joking and i seriously thought we were moving on being exclusive and in the process of heading to courtship. I was so shocked by her statements, i wasnt able to rationally respond immediately since this came out of the blue.

I was quite concerned about her need to justify her definition of dating, and not like clarify what it is now. And it became really, "MY idea of dating VS YOUR idea of dating" and since MY idea of dating it is, it then justifies the "you're kidding about us dating right". She went on "I date my girlfriends", "i go out on dates with groups of people." So i went, hey its you and me, we planned to meet, go for walks do, spend time together. Like what else beside it being a date? I've made my intention clear so whats with the 180?

She then went on with the oh i like you as a friend.. and i believe there is someone else better for you. So im like wtf, is this a shit test? Does she have esteem issues, or feel like im too good for her. I'm into psychology and i did pick out a few concerns about her not valuing herself and her having some esteem issues about how she prides herself in her work.

So i asked the next question and said, why are you raising this up now, and if you thought i was joking about dating you, why didn't you clarify again. We had alot of time between our last date on wed, and i even called her on friday to chat over the phone. Suddenly on the sunday when i called her, she just went ballastic over some person i just casually brought up the subject of dating. ( the person was rather excited about it ) and probably congratulated her or something that we're dating. And she went ballastic, so im sitting here scratching my head? Like whats up with this lass, i mean shes ENFP, but this can be an issue of personal character rather than ENFP.

I was clearly upset and said, there isn't reason for us to be doing this anymore if you just wanna be friends, why even plan for a further date a few days back, when you're feeling like this? So we left the conversation as i said that i had nothing more to say to her at that point. and kinda just left feeling really confused and upset.

The next that after i had regained my composure, i just said okay ive stated my intention, you know im interested, since you clearly acknowledged my confession of love, I take our relationship seriously and was disappointed that you thought our dating was me joking? I just told her I felt hurt by thinking us dating is a joke because i'm emotionally invested. And said im gonna to take some time out from this, i can't just go back being friends with you. that's nuts.

So TLDR, there are two issues. one wants to be friends suddenly, and there was a sudden argument.
I have no idea what happened in-between and one of my mates said that someone close to her might have disapproved our relationship and forced her to pull the brakes.

My other mate commented, maybe she just liked the attention, the nice gift, the nice dinners and the car rides, or she was emotionally immature ... ( for a mid 30 year old lady ) The annoying thing is that she goes on line on whatsapp but she take a gazillion years to respond.

Comments! Nuclear options! blow it to hell! KTHXBAI option.
lemme know what you guys think.?

I obviously didn't blow it to hell in my last text, I'm just thinking we might need some space to cool off though i intentionally told her lets take some time off and cancelled the date we were suppose to have two days later.

I'm not being needy but i reckon if its a fight, and what we're fighting about is irrelevant, i might want to call her soon and ask her.. like seriously what's going on? I can accept that if she tells me she led me on and she's a b!tich great, i'll move on, but if something is bothering her and if there is some degree of misunderstanding.. why not talk it out?

I know im weird for and infj with 4w5 but i can be pretty assertive and know what i want but not push the limits too much that it sounds disrespectful toward her.

Cheers!
Ordz

Gonna be honest when i saw the problem with all the dates u went on thats probably the problem u went on 3 dates and u didnt have sex man whts wrong with u id break of the relationahip with u then and there and ive never been on a date and i know that not shaming j bro but thats the kicker right there reltionships require talking if she wanted to be friends u should of asked her ok i dont want to be just friends how can i remedy that what can i do to make it where we are offical and more than friends never as a man lose your cool anger is not the way to a womans heart or impatience regardless pf what science and dating experts say they get woman cause their rich pretty sure your problem is u went on 6 dates she wanted a more meaningfull conection and figured this guy clearly wants to be just friends i mean if you arent fonna have aex its kind of aparent your just friends even from a mans point of view this is what u did wrong just saying again not shaming u honeatly just teying to help a brotha out good luck

 

[Solomon Wood]

Yeap, sounds about pretty much how the cookie crumbles. Disappeared into thin air! Poooof! Maybe some people are conflict adverse. I find myself in a very strange place these days.
Not that I run head on into conflict, but im also learning more about myself on how I handle conflict in my 30s after being re-typed as INFJ. I waited a day, sent a text, waited a few more days and sent a text.
But there also comes a point when my patience runs out. And i'm like hokay, you do you, and i'll do me. Even being friends for more than 6 7 years, i suppose not all friendships even with the long history means nothing at this point.

Well I do appreciate the responses, Asa. Well, i guess its time to abandon-ship and swim back to the shoreline, wherever that is.

Ordz

Ordz 404 i get it but tou also gotta think of it from the womans persoective understandinf all possible outcomes from all perspectives reaolves the way for moving forward nd for growth relationships exist to grow each other but people dont seem to know how to do that i just want soneone to go on a dte with me who is a spiritual christian like person thats all after tht whatever she wants im up for a relationship is about building the other up not yourself if each other is building each other up then it cant go wrong

 

[HJpAjcdO0X]

Knowing six FP types throughout life my overall assumption is that polar opposite Fe and Fi stack. As an INFJ its just hard to get closer than fun experiences now and then with them.