INFJ myths

That's not intrinsically normal. People intrinsically need air water and food because they so happen to work that way. To find a person who does not need those things would cause it to no longer be intrinsic, since in that universe where you find such a person it is clearly possible for two kinds of people to exist - the kind that needs air, food, and water, and the kind that doesn't. If it is theoretically possible in that universe then it might also be possible that people who don't need air, food or water would become the norm if the variety of people who need the essentials became extinct somehow (perhaps because of their need for air, food, and water)

Then your asking for something that is normal without anything to compete or compare to. The word normal requires two things: a standard and by implication of the standard something that is non-standard. By that definition their is no intrinsic normal.
 
Then your asking for something that is normal without anything to compete or compare to. The word normal requires two things: a standard and by implication of the standard something that is non-standard. By that definition their is no intrinsic normal.

Yes, I feel that's correct.

Moreover, abnormalities are often extrinsic - i.e. they are caused by something.
 
By "yesterday" I only literally meant yesterday. I'm not doubting that perhaps back then INFJs were "normal".
- you just have a way with words, miss...
Here's a caveat comment to make you feel good and special though: Maybe if INFJs were more common, the world would be a better place than it's been all these years. Maybe Rome fell because all your INFJ savants migrated out of it.
Thank you so much for this, I honestly appreciate it, I and many INFJs, I really do BUT:

-this is not a debate with babysitting, I am so sorry for leaving you with that impression. Like any person in this world, I need indeed to feel good and special, but in a argument like this, wich has some real heavy implications, I just need to be taken seriously, not to feel good and special. In fact, if you will really consider/ponder my points, not necessarily agree with them, that will make me feel really good ( i'm not sure about special ).
Now, I will explain as clear as I can why weirdness is NOT an intrinsic term.
-object that exists have properties, for example a red chair, redness is a property of that chair
-there are two kind of properties : intrinsic and extrinsic
-intrinsic property=a property that an object or a thing has of itself, independently of other things, including its context.
-extrinsic property= a property that depends on a thing's relationship with other things.
Wich one is weirdness ? If it were a intrinsic property, it could be described very easily, independent, it would be a stand-alone property. But you can't describe weird by itself, you can describe it only in relation with what is usual. Example: E.T.s came to Earth (supose they exists). We will see them very weird, and probably they will have the same reaction. We would never seen something like them, and neither them something like us. This is to say this weirdness will be only in our/their minds. It would be a perception of something unusual and unexpected based on something that is usual. Also this perception will only be in the mind of the observer a property that describes us, it would not be a property that describe us in a intrinsic, objective way. It is not a stand-alone, independent weirdness, it is dependent by the mind of the observer. So, we discover that intrinsic weirdness is an ilusion, which is a false perception of reality. Nothing/nobody is weird, because weirdness as an intrinsic property doesn't even exists. The funny thing about this, even what is usual is not an intrinsic property.
Now, I do not dismiss intrinsic weirdness based on any of these following "reasons":
-it would be really cute and nice to pretend that all people would be "normal";
-I have a very bad memory with this word, and because I am deeply hurt and full of resentment, every time I hear this word I enter into "convulsion mode"
-it is just/fair to believe that all people are alike, and every one of them is very normal;
Still, even IF I dismiss weirdness because - not based - of any of these reasons listed, this does not mean at all that weirdness would be "real": to believe so would be a logical mistake, namely a genetic fallacy, which is trying to dismiss an idea by showing how it originated;
 
Yes.

You don't think humans are somewhat different from the other animals?

I honestly don't understand your question.

You're just being deliberately stupid.
You may be right. I'm sorry if you misunderstood me in any way. My replies were not at all trying to insult you. I think ideas have many consequences, so I was trying to prove why I think this "INFJ weird" idea is not true, maybe a with a lack of tact, I recognize that, but I am really sorry for it :)
 
[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]
They were not ENFJ, that's for sure ...
I am really sorry for this. I was a bit upset and I was trying to insult you. I know that's foolish. I have no problem with ENFJs, nor with any other type :)
 
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

I'll caution that extrinsic properties are still real properties.

To illustrate this, I'll use a less emotionally loaded property - the speed of sound. To the layperson the speed of sound is 340.29 m/s. This is all fine and good, it's an understandable number. However this value is only for the speed of sound at sea level. The speed of sound is relative to air density. The general idea of sound having a speed is an intrinsic property, however the precise value of that speed is an extrinsic property. If you go up high in the atmosphere, sound has a different speed up there.
 
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

I'll caution that extrinsic properties are still real properties.

To illustrate this, I'll use a less emotionally loaded property - the speed of sound. To the layperson the speed of sound is 340.29 m/s. This is all fine and good, it's an understandable number. However this value is only for the speed of sound at sea level. The speed of sound is relative to air density. The general idea of sound having a speed is an intrinsic property, however the precise value of that speed is an extrinsic property. If you go up high in the atmosphere, sound has a different speed up there.
You are completely right. But I do not think it's the same situation . In your example, the value of the speed of sound is an extrinsic property, but dependent upon an intrinsic property, which is speed itself.
While with weirdness, it's a bit different. Weirdness, which is extrinsic, is dependent upon something which is still extrinsic, and that would be what is usual, what is normal.So there is no solid foundation at all. That's why it's an ilusion, an artifice of the mind.
And why I'm assuming normalcy is extrinsic, in this specific case ? Because everything in the universe is normal at the most fundamental level, everything is usual in the big picture, it is intrinsically usual/normal. The universe is most certainly not surprized by anything, if you understand what I mean. So when a man uses his mind, he labells things as usual/predictable and weird/odd/strange, but this is only because of his finite mind, when he can't explain things, like in the quantum physics. When the mystery of quantum physics will be figured out, there will be anything weird left there (in our mind, because in reality there is nothing weird there) ?
 
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

Well if I have a pack of candies and 50% of them are green candies, and the other 50% are divided between orange, yellow, and pink candies, then green candies are the norm. That's not an illusion, it's real.

The illusion is that normalcy necessarily has any value at all. I might like it if I like green candies, I might be disappointed if I like orange candies, or I might be indifferent. The ratio itself which determines normalcy still exists though, even if I refuse to care about it.
 
[MENTION=9401]LucyJr[/MENTION]

Well if I have a pack of candies and 50% of them are green candies, and the other 50% are divided between orange, yellow, and pink candies, then green candies are the norm. That's not an illusion, it's real.

The illusion is that normalcy necessarily has any value at all. I might like it if I like green candies, I might be disappointed if I like orange candies, or I might be indifferent. The ratio itself which determines normalcy still exists though, even if I refuse to care about it.

Because there are more green candies, that doesn't make it the norm in any objective sense. Majority does not equate norm!
And still your example I dont't think is a good analogy with regard to usual/weirdness.
 
When this happens, I think people tend to build a balance of resentment against both the differences themselves and against other people who highlighted those differences. It would be easy to blame the people pointing out how "weird" we are for not receiving full membership to a group. I think this association might explain some of the defensive posturing some people assume when the words weird or normal are come across in conversation.
Because people assume "some of the defensive posturing when the words weird or normal are come across in conversation" doesn't "prove" at all that those people are weird -that would be a logical fallacy - I hope you can see that. And the people "who highlighted those differences" are not normal/not weird because they highlighted those differences, or because they don't react in a defensive way when these words come across in conversation : this again would be fallacious.

In INFJland, I have observed a frequent compensation of specialness. It's how a lot of INFJ and INFP "own" the weirdness. They convert weird into special. I think this embodies Enneagram 4. With INFJ perhaps it is due to having such a strong need to find meaning for the weirdness, hence giving it a purpose which allows the person to have a role in the larger group context. "Because I'm weird in this way, I am perfectly suited to be the one who ____."
This again, is true, but it has actually no real meaning that INFJs are weird!
 
Actually it does in most cases, by definition.
Hmm...Your pack of candies could be completely mixtured in another way...it could be 50% yellow...
A norm exists, but it's a subjective norm !

I think you don't want to think it is.
This is not saying anything.
Maybe you want me to think that I don't think it is ??? Just saying...
 
Hmm...Your pack of candies could be completely mixtured in another way...it could be 50% yellow...
A norm exists, but it's a subjective norm !
Yes, that's essentially what I've said. You do understand.

I think you don't want to think it is.
This is not saying anything.
Maybe you want me to think that I don't think it is ??? Just saying...
It said what it said.

You just demonstrated that you do understand it. In fact you reiterated my point. So I could only conclude that you were resistant to the truth.
 
It is with some irony then that on the other side of this, I sometimes see someone trying to use the product of having found a purpose for being weird as evidence that they are not weird. The value judgment rewrites the definition of weird such that anyone who provides value within the group context is no longer weird. (e.g., "Have you checked the Romantic Period ??? The Greek Philosophers ? The majority of the philosophers ?") But people who stand out in history do not stand out for their normalcy.
You completely misunderstood me. My argument was not at all that these people were "normal" because they stand out in history.
I don't usually make such silly "arguments", because I'm very careful at logic.
I think [MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION] actually got it pretty well :
I'm not doubting that perhaps back then INFJs were "normal".
So what I was trying to say is that "back then", especially with regard to greek philosophers, they were not considered at all to be weird. They were respected because their philosophyes were the epitome of a good life, meaningful life, and a moral life. They actually emphasized profound meditation over the live in the moment, absolute morality over relativistic ethics, a life full of purpose over the you only live once and so on. So that was my point :)
 
It said what it said.

You just demonstrated that you do understand it. In fact you reiterated my point. So I could only conclude that you were resistant to the truth.

It has to do with the nature of necessity. Your pack of candies is just a probability. It has no real objective value.
Would you say that the other candies are weird ? Would you say that a diamond has an intrinsic value? With regard to humans, it's much more complicated, because humans have intrinsic values.
 
Do we really need more evidence than the existence of the posts in this thread to prove weird?

hint: People who aren't weird don't devote this much energy to trying to prove they aren't with poorly thought out logic.
 
Ok, I give up, it doesn't make any sense, ! And again, I'm very sorry again if I insulted anybody !:)
 
It said what it said.

You just demonstrated that you do understand it. In fact you reiterated my point. So I could only conclude that you were resistant to the truth.

It has to do with the nature of necessity. Your pack of candies is just a probability. It has no real objective value.
Would you say that the other candies are weird ? Would you say that a diamond has an intrinsic value? With regard to humans, it's much more complicated, because humans have intrinsic values.

I never claimed that it had intrinsic value and I've stated exactly the opposite of that several times.

Edit:
And the bold is not angry bold. I'm not offended. It is there to assist you in reading what I say.
 
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New myth: INFJs always have cat-like ninja reflexes owing to their inferior extroverted sensing (Se).
 
New myth: INFJs always have cat-like ninja reflexes owing to their inferior extroverted sensing (Se).

Heehee. You won't let this one go, will you? Not only have you misunderstood me, but you're reducing it to the absurd and appending the 'always.'
 
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