INFJ vs INTJ - Intelligence

Skarekrow said:
Actually those were my words.
And it is quite true...please stop being uncivil with each other now.
I know we can all be reasonable... @FreeSp1r1t I haven’t known you that long (but you seem to be intelligent and passionate) but I can personally reassure you that you have taken @Tin Man all wrong and vice-versa.
He is one of the most really kind, compassionate, thoughtful, and insightful INTJs I have ever met.
That quote was me saying that there are quite a few INTJs who are exactly that (sociopathic dickheads)...but he is not one of them.
Let’s please just start over?
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Fair enough. Skarekrow I have had some good dialogue with you I value your judgement and insight.

Tin Man, I'm sorry I was an asshole with some of my comments. I know I have my own issues and perspective and I'm really not trying to project (perhaps I did). I've seen several people whom hold you in high regard and I want to do the same. I want to be friends / friendly and I know you have much to offer. Let's just hug it out and I promise to be sensitive on the INTJ perspective going forward.

Honestly, my comments were abstract in nature but I think they became a bit pointed - for that I'm sorry. I don't want that for you or anyone here.

Thank you Skarekrow for stepping in. Your perspective is greatly appreciated.
 
Vienna said:
Well,
@FreeSp1r1t , thank you. I would have liked to receive feedback on other points as well, but I'm not here to force anything onto anyone. Some of your positions are now clear to me. I'm still dismayed at your attitude towards Tin Man though. Please consider Skarekrow's words(hello, @Skarekrow ) who just managed to say something about it in a civil manner. Something I can't promise I could do. And I don't know any of you which makes this none of my business really but hey, it's not pleasant to witness all this.
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Hmm, which point were of most importance to you?
 
FreeSp1r1t said:
Fair enough. Skarekrow I have had some good dialogue with you I value your judgement and insight.

Tin Man, I'm sorry I was an asshole with some of my comments. I know I have my own issues and perspective and I'm really not trying to project (perhaps I did). I've seen several people whom hold you in high regard and I want to do the same. I want to be friends / friendly and I know you have much to offer. Let's just hug it out and I promise to be sensitive on the INTJ perspective going forward.

Honestly, my comments were abstract in nature but I think they became a bit pointed - for that I'm sorry. I don't want that for you or anyone here.

Thank you Skarekrow for stepping in. Your perspective is greatly appreciated.
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I don’t know if anyone is projecting anything.
I just know that you are both intelligent and insightful adults who would probably get along quite well imho, that’s all.
I’m not placing blame on anyone for anything.
A forum is an easy place to be misunderstood, especially when we read so much body language subconsciously to help make our judgements and conclusions when speaking or meeting someone.
We don’t have that extra bit of help discerning who is saying something spitefully, or making a joke?
Anyhow...I’m guilty of being overly blunt sometimes...I did it just yesterday and apologized for it...all we can do is our best.
Which is quite flawed as humans.
;)
Cheers man!
 
Sometimes but it takes work and is difficult.
Happy Phantom said:
I'm curious, are you able to empathize with certsin people? Can you put yourself in another person's shoes without being critical and understanding their pov?
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Skarekrow said:
Actually those were my words.
And it is quite true...please stop being uncivil with each other now.
I know we can all be reasonable... @FreeSp1r1t I haven’t known you that long (but you seem to be intelligent and passionate) but I can personally reassure you that you have taken @Tin Man all wrong and vice-versa.
He is one of the most really kind, compassionate, thoughtful, and insightful INTJs I have ever met.
That quote was me saying that there are quite a few INTJs who are exactly that (sociopathic dickheads)...but he is not one of them.
Let’s please just start over?
Click to expand...

Damn krowy, you really know how to give me the feelz.
You know you're destroying my INTJ cred posting that stuff. I will have to send my robot army to destroy you one day.

Ok @FreeSp1r1t , perhaps we got off on the wrong foot. I wasn't trying to attack or dismiss your viewpoint, merely add an alternative one. As skarekrow mentioned, it's all too easy to misinterpret a person on the internet, and I should have taken more care with my words.

I'm not big on hugs. How about a hearty handshake, and a shared flask of whiskey?
That's an Irish hug.
 
Happy Phantom said:
Why is that? Would you say that you're an archetypal INTJ?
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I wouldn't know. I think though maybe that to have empathy for someone else you must understand what it feels like to be in a similar situation. I don't feel that much myself. I think my time spent on these forums is proof of that. I am viciously attacked here for trying to bring logic, reason and calm when it comes to political matters and the like. I'm not effected by them because I understand the attacks come from people who have closed minds. It's not a crime to have a closed mind. The point is though most people with feelings would be incredibly hurt for not being treated as if they are human I think. I think I show great empathy in the way I respond to them. I could after all stoop to their level and do great damage to their sense of self esteem if I chose. I choose instead to try and teach and nurture hoping that one day it will in fact lead them to realized having an open and knowlegable mind is nothing to be fearful of.
 
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Tin Man said:
Damn krowy, you really know how to give me the feelz.
You know you're destroying my INTJ cred posting that stuff. I will have to send my robot army to destroy you one day.

Ok @FreeSp1r1t , perhaps we got off on the wrong foot. I wasn't trying to attack or dismiss your viewpoint, merely add an alternative one. As skarekrow mentioned, it's all too easy to misinterpret a person on the internet, and I should have taken more care with my words.

I'm not big on hugs. How about a hearty handshake, and a shared flask of whiskey?
That's an Irish hug.
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I think you just slapped someone in the face with a rather large olive branch.
 
Eventhorizon said:
I wouldn't know. I think though maybe that to have empathy for someone else you must understand what it feels like to be in a similar situation. I don't feel that much myself. I think my time spent on these forums is proof of that. I am viciously attacked here for trying to bring logic, reason and calm when it comes to political matters and the like. I'm not effected by them because I understand the attacks come from people who have closed minds. It's not a crime to have a closed mind. The point is though most people with feelings would be incredibly hurt for not being treated as if they are human I think. I think I show great empathy in the way I respond to them. I could after all stoop to their level and do great damage to their sense of self esteem if I chose. I choose instead to try and teach and nurture hoping that one day it will in fact lead them to realized having an open and knowlegable mind is nothing to be fearful of.
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Would you save a baby from a burning building?
 
Eventhorizon said:
I think you just slapped someone in the face with a rather large olive branch.
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That is the way of the INTJ apology. Leave them so they're not sure whether they've been insulted or apologized to.
 
Happy Phantom said:
Would you save a baby from a burning building?
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I would asess the likelihood of success first. If clearly impossible I wouldn't try. If marginal I would try.
 
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Tin Man said:
Damn krowy, you really know how to give me the feelz.
You know you're destroying my INTJ cred posting that stuff. I will have to send my robot army to destroy you one day.

Ok @FreeSp1r1t , perhaps we got off on the wrong foot. I wasn't trying to attack or dismiss your viewpoint, merely add an alternative one. As skarekrow mentioned, it's all too easy to misinterpret a person on the internet, and I should have taken more care with my words.

I'm not big on hugs. How about a hearty handshake, and a shared flask of whiskey?
That's an Irish hug.
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A hug it is, but only after the whiskey / rum and there has to be an arm in between. HA!
 
Could it be that we all become agressive/defensive very fast because we read emotions into the posts, even if they aren't there?

I have just realised that I take things way too literal here because of that lack of present embodiment. If I have read more from a member then I can of course tell from context how something is meant, but until I have reached that point, I take everything literally.

On the other hand, it can also happen that someone sees something which isn't there because of preconceptions or conclusions which have been drawn from seeing which type someone is.
Third option, it is a natural inclination that we become defensive (and in turn agressive) because we expect the worst of people.
Or, again, we project feelings onto logic because we can't fathom that someone is being logical when we are being emotional.

But really, a toast to you @FreeSp1r1t and @Tin Man for burying the hatchet and the others for helping them.
 
Tin Man said:
You had me at shit head.

There are quite a few arrogant, obnoxious INTJs out there. Just as there are many emotionally volatile and abusive INFJs. While MBTI can most definitely be useful, I think it takes a back seat when it comes to relationships. As long as you're emotionally mature and willing to listen, type doesn't matter to me. I'm not on here because this is an INFJ forum. I'm here because this place is filled with such creative, intelligent and caring people such as yourself.
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Hey man. I can use "emotionally volatile and abusive" to your advantage. *eyebrow wiggle*
 
FreeSp1r1t said:
You're so passionate @invisible . Man that seems like an ironic statement.

I know @Eventhorizon can be rigid in his thoughts about some things (especially politics - something I like to avoid), but he has also started some very good threads that I really have enjoyed. When I find myself getting irritated by INTJs I remind myself that all of my ideals aren't always the best for everyone. And when I see a statement that seems completely wrong to me, I have to step back and reflect on why it irked me. It's an opportunity for me to grow. Besides, if everything was always peaches and cream then the world would be very dull (or cultish).
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I know wonderful INTJs. I have nothing against INTJs.

I don't seek to inflict my ideals on anyone. I am all about respecting the middle ground. I am happy to talk about my ideals, describe them, and listen to what others say about them. Ideally, I hope that people will listen to others, and be open to alternative opinions, whether political or otherwise. Is that sort of ideal too much to expect for others to respect? Eventhorizon seems to consistently struggle with that sort of expectation. Have you ever tried to disagree with Eventhorizon? Try hard enough to get yourself heard with him and he will just start telling you that you are crazy. Might as well act crazy then, I think.

I don't always have to take a step back and reflect on why things irked me. It's great if that's right for you, but it's not always right for me. Everything in life is not some opportunity for endless "growth", sometimes we reach a point where we know that we have sufficiently "grown" to be able to make accurate and fair judgments. I grew up gay in the 90s and came out at 15, I have 2 degrees, my mother was raped many times and I have taken care of her through court cases, I have worked in gay bars for 65 hour weeks, I have been hospitalised 3 times for depressive disorder. I am not some silly little boy. When people talk shit, it's not always because I can't handle what they're saying that I think they are talking shit. Sometimes I know that shit that is getting said is garbage! I'm not interested in listening to garbage talk. Sometimes the way people act should not be tolerated. I'm entirely comfortable telling people to STFU. I don't require instruction about it.
 
I restarted the thread. I am a bit guilty too. :innocent:

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Tin Man said:
Damn krowy, you really know how to give me the feelz.
You know you're destroying my INTJ cred posting that stuff. I will have to send my robot army to destroy you one day.

Ok @FreeSp1r1t , perhaps we got off on the wrong foot. I wasn't trying to attack or dismiss your viewpoint, merely add an alternative one. As skarekrow mentioned, it's all too easy to misinterpret a person on the internet, and I should have taken more care with my words.

I'm not big on hugs. How about a hearty handshake, and a shared flask of whiskey?
That's an Irish hug.
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ImaginaryBloke said:
You need a good old-fashioned masculine Russian bear hug, 'bro'.

aph__literally_bear_hug_by_miekuning-d3knp34.jpg
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Tin Man, I gave you bear hug a while ago. Have you forgotten about that one? Here you get another one.

Scottish whisky for me, please. Smoky bear beer gives you that feeling of nature.
 
I have a great deal of respect for those INTJs who I know personally. They're generally very intelligent people who (though I don't always agree with) are quite capable of doing amazing things. They feel kind of like extended family member to me since I can often see where they are coming from and why on most issues. The difference therein of course being in our preferences and secondary/tertiary functions.

I feel like the question is not "which of the two is more intelligent" so much as how will each person try and apply their preferred preference to the world and themselves?

*shrug*

Maybe I'm just full of it. :grin:
 
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