I'm not sure how to best address the oddness I see in championing humans as being on their own to take care of evolution now, while simultaneously defending a model of behavior that so strongly justifies primal urges like fear and jealousy. And I do agree that it's important to not automatically fall back on what is natural as though it is also going to be the voice of what is reasonable.
I think that the ability to say that we are naturally monogamous, rather than that we have been conditioned toward or into that over a long period of time, is clearly wrong. Referencing history as though it details something that contests this fails to illuminate a single detail for me thus far; both in this thread and elsewhere as a person who is very interested in discussing and evaluating the model of polyamory.
Billy, it seems to me as though you are acknowledging that a monogamous behavior is largely if not exclusively conditionally enforced, while simultaneously calling it a natural behavior. This may just be language, but since there has been so much debating on what is and isn't natural about this, I thought I'd try to clear the air.
Part of why I think you are acknowledging it as a matter of conditioning is because you seem to reference the sensibility of our quashing other natural tendencies that you have, in my opinion, thrown into comparison with a rather slanderously selected lot of other basic behaviors; murder, theft and rape. I'll just say that our positive behaviors come as much from a baseline of primal instincts as any of these negatives do, and I don't see anything yet cluing us into why our ability to love freely is supposed to be controlled as it is among the ranks of such heinous things as those you chose to list.
Furthermore, I have completely missed anything that supports the notion that a polyamorous model and engagement is less condusive to achieving success in human values (such as comfort, security, stability and love) than a traditional, monogamous model. I would be very interested in any thoughts to do with this; I am leaning toward suspecting that some good things could be said. I would, however, also expect for there to be some polyamoroy-positive points to be made on this matter as well.
I want to point out that we make choices in this area for reasons outside of human survival. A lot of the monogamous influence in human history is from religious doctrines, particularly monotheistic ones that exerted such force over our species in so many ways, in so many places and over, still, all times. Now, we'll either agree or disagree that these bodies of influence are completely considerate, and correct, or we won't. I think it's reasonable for us to admit that it may be healthiest for us to at least consider these matters for ourselves, rather than just taking them as divine facts of survival-interest, especially when that opinion was being formed and condoned several thousand years ago.
I don't readily find much reasoning as to why I should passionately be interested in, let alone borrowing frlom, the intuition of anybody who lived that long ago and thought that this model was the end of thought on the matter, and that whatever goal it even meant to best achieve, was properly understood, and would still be the goal for our species in a future so far away from their ability to fathom. And less so when that model is so embraced and detailed (if not originated by) such bodies of thought and influence that I personally find to be questionable in the very ideals.
So, if in 2011, we're open to evaluating what our ideals may be for a relationship, or our idea of love; is it really so difficult to say that behaviors like jealousy and insecurity are not ideal? Because that's the bulk of the weight I have tried to shed in my move to polyamory.
I've been wanting to weigh in on this thread for a while.. and have forgone pages of things I even prepared. Not wholly sure why; I guess I would rather respond to peoples disinterests and non-consideration about polyamory, than to go on a schpeal detailing it as ideal. Really awesome posts in here from you guys and it's nice to see this topic gaining more and more presence on the planet. Really liked everything from you Chessie, and o_q's post as well.
One last note for now: For me, it has actually taken a lot of work to fulfill certain criteria of weening myself away from posessive, jealous natures, as well as refining (and god is this hard) my ability to trust and maintain my security without constant, if even much reaffirmation from my significant other(s). This stuff is hard, and I am still working on it; but let me tell you that there is no disputing that I have become a better lover for either a monogamous or a polyamorous relationship through my self-improvement in these areas. And that makes me feel better about myself, and what I'm bringing to the table, and what I'm not bringing to the table.
I also think that this is related to my self-changes toward an ideal love, and being an ideal lover; I have also, for a few years now, been working on acquiring a sexual (and elsewise) attraction to other males. I more or less sat down one night and realized a shameful sensation to do with that; for all of my (and others) love for our significant other, for all of the profound connection and appreciation of everything about them that has nothing to do with their genitalia; wouldn't I be shit to throw away somebody who is all of that, even more, just because of what their genitalia is?
I see a bit of the same issue in monogamy; we may encounter somebody who is made out of all of the, if not more, beauty of our significant other. They overlap totally with the values we have for our lover, and yet... we are supposed to... not... love, cherish, appreciate, support, even acknowledge them.
Just some thoughts for the table. To me, it is clear that, as a species, we aren't, and haven't been critically thinking nor applying ourselves toward what may be ideal for love and human relationships. Or, we have, but with such minority, and lethargy, as to have only very recently become so much more able (and still so far from completely) to accept, condone, honor or be happy for love held between homosexuals.
