INFJs and Violence

[Orion]

INFJs, from what I can gather are not typically physically abusive or aggressive people. However, I believe you can have an aggressive and violent disposition without ever having got in a fight or hurting someone.

Do you think that you are an aggressive and violent person? What is your experience of violence and harmful intent? Have you ever commited acts of or have you ever had extended periods of aggressive or violent thoughts, feelings and actions? Has there been times in your life where violent thoughts or acts were a way to release pent up anger or issues with yourself and others?

What is your attitude towards violence? Do you feel that it is a natural or conducive part of the human condition?

 

[VH]

I am an active pacifist. I choose peace, and actively seek to further it, rather than simply avoiding action. I will 'fight' for peace, and to protect others.

My father was a Dragon style kung fu instructor, so I had the concept of being prepared for self defense drilled into my head from, age 5. The school master always told us "If you can talk your way out of a fight, no matter what you have to say, do it. If you can't, then run, no matter if you can beat them. If you can't run, destroy them." This philosophy always bothered me at the last step.

I have been in a more than a few fights, but I have avoided a great deal more than most, due to seeking to talk my way out of them, and having no pride issues with escaping them. However, when I did have to fight, I fought very hard and have yet to lose a fight. I'm both lucky and underestimated, but I have always felt very bad about the harm I inflicted.

It took me 20 years, but eventually I found Aikido, which has a beautifully simple philosophy. "If you have the skill to defend yourself, you have an obligation to defend your attacker." Aikido focuses on subduing attackers without injuring them. It's an amazing art, a martial art that does the opposite of harm.

I seek to stay prepared for violence, and if at all possible defusing it through words, flight, or superior skill. I do not seek violence. I seek the opposite. I seek the protection of everyone, and will actively make it appear in the world if I can.

I will engage in violence as a last resort, but instead of seeking to use it to harm others, I will only use it to help others.

 

[laurie]

I've snapped and hit my sister only twice in my whole life (when I was depressed) and prising a guy's hand off a door using my nails (he was using it to hit someone in the face with), but I don't remember ever hitting anyone else. Ever.
I prefer to use words (although that sounds cliche and lame). Violence would be a last resort for me, now especially. I hate violence and people who use violence unnecessarily. Especially with children and animals.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

I'm not really a violent person. I've only hit my sister once out of any sort of anger. I do bat playfully here and there, and I like to roughhouse, but that's a different type of aggression. I don't ever intend to hurt anyone. I also like threatening my friends as a joke, but never seriously.

If it came up that I had to defend someone or someone got REALLY in my face about stuff, I might consider it, but I would definitely prefer not to use violence.

 

[Orion]

Hmm, interesting. I'll rephrase my stance.

The act of physically harming someone was less of the concern for me, I'm interested in your exposure to it psychologically. A violent or aggressive state of mind permeates through every facet of your life. Hitting your sister out of frustration is probably something we'd all do at least once in our lives.

I'm talking about entering dark states. Not necessarily evil or wrong states but ones that, I wonder, are natural or...necessary.

Some people live their lives marinated in violence. People who work the doors or clubs, in the security industry, military or whatever all enjoy the exposure to adrenaline that takes place when in conflict with someone. Not just violence, but aggression. I know some people who enjoy getting hit. Rough schools are filled with kids who's anti social behaviour offers a gratification that they cannot achieve in their lives. Some people live in rough areas where it's socially acceptable to smash someone's head in after a night out, like dessert after dinner.

These areas of society exist in all social and economic levels, even though mainstream culture and religion fundamentally preach that violence is wrong and that we should basically do what's right by each other.

What I'm interested in hearing, is if there are any INFJs who have really felt periods where they have stepped out of shackles of their type description and been affected by, through their own or that of others, violence or aggressive mind sets.

I imagine it would be a completely different monster for an Introverted NF to experience this then for an extrovert, considering that Extroverts are more likely to commit anti social behaviour when they have issues.

Sometimes neurosis can foster anger which can't be expressed through normal means. I know I was extremely angry with myself and others in my early teens. It stemmed from self-hatred, low self esteem, sexual frustration and existential angst.

 

[Entyqua]

I think I understand where your going with this. And I hope my answer helps...

I know I feel a great deal of violence sometimes. I would never act on it. But there are times when I can feel myself craving violence, spilling blood, hurting for the sake of hurting. When i was younger these would be the times that I would cut myself to relieve the pressure. As I got older those tendencies went straight in the violent and dangerous sex with well anyone...I do mean violent both of us would come out with wounds.

 

[Lady_Ai]

Hmm, interesting. I'll rephrase my stance.

The act of physically harming someone was less of the concern for me, I'm interested in your exposure to it psychologically. A violent or aggressive state of mind permeates through every facet of your life. Hitting your sister out of frustration is probably something we'd all do at least once in our lives.

I'm talking about entering dark states. Not necessarily evil or wrong states but ones that, I wonder, are natural or...necessary.

Some people live their lives marinated in violence. People who work the doors or clubs, in the security industry, military or whatever all enjoy the exposure to adrenaline that takes place when in conflict with someone. Not just violence, but aggression. I know some people who enjoy getting hit. Rough schools are filled with kids who's anti social behaviour offers a gratification that they cannot achieve in their lives. Some people live in rough areas where it's socially acceptable to smash someone's head in after a night out, like dessert after dinner.

These areas of society exist in all social and economic levels, even though mainstream culture and religion fundamentally preach that violence is wrong and that we should basically do what's right by each other.

What I'm interested in hearing, is if there are any INFJs who have really felt periods where they have stepped out of shackles of their type description and been affected by, through their own or that of others, violence or aggressive mind sets.

I imagine it would be a completely different monster for an Introverted NF to experience this then for an extrovert, considering that Extroverts are more likely to commit anti social behaviour when they have issues.

Sometimes neurosis can foster anger which can't be expressed through normal means. I know I was extremely angry with myself and others in my early teens. It stemmed from self-hatred, low self esteem, sexual frustration and existential angst.

Wow I really know where you're coming from. usually I'm well reserved with others..But for some people wakes a side of me I don't bring up usually unless necessary. By my own experience it comes in to 2 moments in my life.

1) When I'm up against a foe on which opposes a great morality standard and intends to put down others. (When I say others I mean not me but others around me). Now in the real world as you know I'm a INFJ. I take all things into consideration. But there has been some people in my life that trigger another side where I turn aggresive but more assertive in my words. this proves to be effective since people known me to be easy to push around. Don't prefer to resort to such methods unless given situation pushes for it.

2) Actually can relate more so with what you said with my ex. Out of low self esteem, sexual frustration, and angst I found myself tapping into a side of me that is violent became overwhelming . Now as a female we do more with words than with physical abusive. It comes to form of being a 'bitch'. I'm the flame but people add fuel to make it burn.Not a lot ladies admit to this fact to keep face...but since this is a open forum I'm happy to share that .

 

[laurie]

I was only ever self-destructive with a violent mindset. I got urges to just punch a wall or jump out of a window etc. and it was always a terrible thing to me if I felt this way, so it made it worse.
Thankfully, I don't really have that anymore.
Though I have found that several people I know, me included, have had urges to stab anyone just to see what would happen.

 

[Orion]

Ah this is more like it! I'm surprised it's mostly gals that have replied. But who am I kidding? NF guys= girls. I'll give it time before Indigo starts to confess his murderous rampages....

As I got older those tendencies went straight in the violent and dangerous sex with well anyone...I do mean violent both of us would come out with wounds.

Wow that sounds extreme. Was it harmful to you or was it something you could felt was a good release?

1) When I'm up against a foe on which opposes a great morality standard and intends to put down others. (When I say others I mean not me but others around me). Now in the real world as you know I'm a INFJ. I take all things into consideration. But there has been some people in my life that trigger another side where I turn aggresive but more assertive in my words. this proves to be effective since people known me to be easy to push around. Don't prefer to resort to such methods unless given situation pushes for it.

I was heavily bullied when I was in school so I definitely understand this.

2) Actually can relate more so with what you said with my ex. Out of low self esteem, sexual frustration, and angst I found myself tapping into a side of me that is violent became overwhelming . Now as a female we do more with words than with physical abusive. It comes to form of being a 'bitch'. I'm the flame but people add fuel to make it burn.Not a lot ladies admit to this fact to keep face...but since this is a open forum I'm happy to share that .

Interesting...

I was only ever self-destructive with a violent mindset. I got urges to just punch a wall or jump out of a window etc. and it was always a terrible thing to me if I felt this way, so it made it worse.

Yeah I definitely recognised this in myself. I perhaps did this to myself in a more psychological degree, which would result in displaced aggression onto others.

 

[Ria]

During times of living in conditions that caused me intense distress and rage, I have resorted to self destruction in the form of cutting which I began to do when I was probably about 12. I cut for a few yrs, stopped then began again when I found myself as an adult living in a mentally and emotionally destructive relationship. During the times when I was experiencing rage and betrayal, I would direct verbal assaults in the form of sarcastic wit, and emitting powerful and potentially physically aggressive vibes and energy leading to potentially physical behavior. Throughout it all calling on the other person's hurtful behavior, intense facial expressions and body language though, I felt mostly disappointed with the relationship, hurt, grief and loss as to what I had hoped it would be like. With being emotionally triggered daily and having it minimized and disregarded, I began to cut again for just a couple of months until I ended it. Now I am in a much better place. I do believe that if I had stayed, I would have perhaps lost control and physically begun to harm my former partner.


She Cuts:

The day was bad. It hurt too much, and she cant speak
she cant speak
Words wont form within her mind,
despite her screams
of broken dreams
words without form,
deafening silence
no bottle does she turn to
no drug does she blaze so,
she forgets the walk she takes to her private place
pin in hand,
she carves and she cuts...

She cuts,
the sadness slowly fades to a dull ache,
replaced by curiosity
entranced as she watches the blood begin to flow
tiny streams
tiny red streams, they trickle and they leak
finding pathways
of winding runways waving through the tiny hairs upon her arm...


... little drops upon
the bathroom counter,
her feet inside the sink
no pain does she feel, just a sense of calm
her scab disturbed again, all the way along
where it began to heal in sections along the lines,


...till the trauma that she lives in
leaves her in the red,
in the evening, in the grace
I hope that someday finds her
the grace that she deserves to end her suffering
once and for all---

each time, she say it will be the last time
but I know that she will cut again.


I feel no shame in posting this self disclosure, in fact, I hope it can answer the question posted regarding how I deal with violence as an INFJ. I think its interesting to note here too, the way that INFJ's would probably rather deal with physical pain that emotional pain... at least I find that to be true for myself.

 

[Faye]

Everyone is violent to some extent. We live constantly under the threat of violence, and there is much violence intertwined with our sexuality.

This doesn't mean that we are necessarily going to act violent though. I try to avoid that, and I'm very successful. However, the violent disposition remains. It does sometimes disturb me.

Most people are not aware of this aspect of themselves.

 

[Orion]

Everyone is violent to some extent. We live constantly under the threat of violence, and there is much violence intertwined with our sexuality.

This doesn't mean that we are necessarily going to act violent though. I try to avoid that, and I'm very successful. However, the violent disposition remains. It does sometimes disturb me.

Most people are not aware of this aspect of themselves.

Yep, definitely agree.

 

[Orion]

I feel no shame in posting this self disclosure, in fact, I hope it can answer the question posted regarding how I deal with violence as an INFJ. I think its interesting to note here too, the way that INFJ's would probably rather deal with physical pain that emotional pain... at least I find that to be true for myself.

Wow, thank you very much for sharing that, it's brave. And yes, physical pain seems a much more reconcilable alternative to emotional pain.

 

[Ria]

Trying to numb & try to ignore it,

the day after spending time with him exploring,

the sun brightly shining down on me imploring

& l just don't have the answers to those light seeking questions-

cus l always manage to mess up my chances

& voluntarily set up sabotages

so l don't have to wonder why,

when 'too good to be true' once again says goodbye.

At least l had part in the way things turned out,

set up the stage with my screwing around

& if l was faithful & practiced control

& wound up rejected & burned to the soul

then l'd hate so much deeper & blame it on past

& again choose the dark side cus good guys finish last.

& l wont be forgotten l wont be denied

& l wont let another soul yet again make me cry

so I'll swim in the recesses of my mind

with the mascaraed boxes so easy to find

as my selfishness offers them over & over

survival's the reason that they are my shoulder

time & again my memories of when

the direction of my unfolding story of then-

untold.


Ocean:
It is here at the shore that l feel forgiven for my rage & destruction. It is here at the shore where l feel accepted as the flawed being that l am. I listen to the waves whisper wisdom's of peace & inclusion of elemental life reminding me that l belong. This quietness. I am still & l'm calm. Lulled. Soothed. I am comforted by the loving messages of my natural parent. The mother that helped create me in order to channel me through the female human who bore me. Love. Existence. & my grateful relief of my awareness of it. I am no longer weak to my pain behind my dangerous rage but instead high above it.

.............................................................................................................


I think I can take this thread a step further and share how many INFJ's deal with their intense inner lives when reacting and responding to violence and other distressing life situations... Through a creative outlet. Writing is one of mine. I hope I can be of help to others like me.

 

[Orion]

I think many INFJs are very aware of their ability to express themselves through a creative outlet. I think we all do, if we didn't we'd probably explode. My interest lies more in the direct by product of such exposure or behaviour. How it challenges an INFJ's ethics and morality.

The creative outlet seems like a secondary reaction, which requires reflection on life events and experiences.

 

[Shai Gar]

I'm not really a violent person. I've only hit my sister once out of any sort of anger. I do bat playfully here and there, and I like to roughhouse, but that's a different type of aggression. I don't ever intend to hurt anyone. I also like threatening my friends as a joke, but never seriously.

If it came up that I had to defend someone or someone got REALLY in my face about stuff, I might consider it, but I would definitely prefer not to use violence.

nom

 

[Entyqua]

Wow that sounds extreme. Was it harmful to you or was it something you could felt was a good release?

It was extreme, but I was never in danger of being really hurt. I left with minor cuts, or bite marks, or hickeys. There was never any hitting, or serious wounds. I always had wonderful release. You didn't hurt your partner more than you were willing to be hurt. And we always took it to the point where pain almost cancels out the pleasure. It was intense and wild.

It wasn't anything like BDSM, or Dom...We did use some tools from each, but mostly we tried to cause as much pain with just your bare hands, fingernails, or teeth... When steered from anger and agression, the violence became more of an aphrodesiac. I enjoyed feeling the pain as much as I loved giving pain to my partner.

 

[J. Cardigan]

I have a lot of pent-up rage that I need to release somehow. I'd like to try out Aikido as Von Hase studies, but there's no dojos around me that actively teach it.

I've never really been in a "real" fight, since I don't seem to piss anyone off and no one has pissed me off to the point of violence. One REALLY dirty fighter I used to be friends with (he threw sand in his opponents eyes....) said that if he was walking in a dark alley and I was walking towards him, he'd turn around. I don't think I'm intimidating, but he said I have the look of someone who is calm until some kind of "breaking point" where they go "fucking crazy, man."

I just want to be able to defend myself, and I don't like the idea of guns or knives.

 

[Orion]

Check out the last post in my blog, it may enlighten you in that respect.

 

[gloomy-optimist]

Hmm, interesting. I'll rephrase my stance.

The act of physically harming someone was less of the concern for me, I'm interested in your exposure to it psychologically. A violent or aggressive state of mind permeates through every facet of your life. Hitting your sister out of frustration is probably something we'd all do at least once in our lives.

I'm talking about entering dark states. Not necessarily evil or wrong states but ones that, I wonder, are natural or...necessary.

Some people live their lives marinated in violence. People who work the doors or clubs, in the security industry, military or whatever all enjoy the exposure to adrenaline that takes place when in conflict with someone. Not just violence, but aggression. I know some people who enjoy getting hit. Rough schools are filled with kids who's anti social behaviour offers a gratification that they cannot achieve in their lives. Some people live in rough areas where it's socially acceptable to smash someone's head in after a night out, like dessert after dinner.

These areas of society exist in all social and economic levels, even though mainstream culture and religion fundamentally preach that violence is wrong and that we should basically do what's right by each other.

What I'm interested in hearing, is if there are any INFJs who have really felt periods where they have stepped out of shackles of their type description and been affected by, through their own or that of others, violence or aggressive mind sets.

I imagine it would be a completely different monster for an Introverted NF to experience this then for an extrovert, considering that Extroverts are more likely to commit anti social behaviour when they have issues.

Sometimes neurosis can foster anger which can't be expressed through normal means. I know I was extremely angry with myself and others in my early teens. It stemmed from self-hatred, low self esteem, sexual frustration and existential angst.

Okay, I know what you're talking about.

I get pretty tense and aggressive sometimes. I don't think I'm a very good example of INFJ passiveness. I am a pacifist for the most part, but I can get a definite edge at times, sometimes for longer than I like to admit.

I don't hate the world or anything, and I'm not a "troubled" teen, but I do get pretty aggressive.