INFP vs. INFJ: A Functional Analysis

So there are personality aspects in half the population that the other half do not, and can not possibly possess without something shot of a lobotomy?
Personality is volatile, you can learn to be whomever you want to be. But you will always have one natural orientation. This is what much of typology is based on. If you are opposed to this idea, you might as well just be opposed to typology as whole.

Bullshit.
Any solid reasons, other than "I don't like it, therefore it must be untrue"?
 
Personality is volatile, you can learn to be whomever you want to be.

Meaning you can use other functions, but you naturally prefer to use the ones in the order of your MBTI. Thanks for agreeing.
 
Meaning you can use other functions, but you naturally prefer to use the ones in the order of your MBTI. Thanks for agreeing.

No, you cannot.

I, as an INFJ, can appear to look like an ESTJ by taking over the mannerisms and behavior of an ESTJ, but I will always be using the same four cognitive functions to appear that way. ESTJs use Te-Si-Ne-Fi. So, to appear as a Te-user, I'd be using Ti to calibrate logical thought and implement it with Fe. To appear an Si-user, I would be using Se to sense out the details and store it in Ni, making it seem something like Si. But in the end, I'm still using Ni-Fe-Ti-Se.

I cannot use Te-Si-Ne-Fi because I have no idea what it actually is. I can only formulate a rough picture according to how Te and Si users describe these functions, but I cannot truly know.

We begin with the dominant and auxiliary, and as we grow older, come in better contact with their unconscious opposites (yin and yang, see previous post). However, there is no reason for us to be aware of the other four functions, therefore, we do not use them.
 
No, you cannot.

I, as an INFJ, can appear to look like an ESTJ by taking over the mannerisms and behavior of an ESTJ, but I will always be using the same four cognitive functions to appear that way. ESTJs use Te-Si-Ne-Fi. So, to appear as a Te-user, I'd be using Ti to calibrate logical thought and implement it with Fe. To appear an Si-user, I would be using Se to sense out the details and store it in Ni, making it seem something like Si. But in the end, I'm still using Ni-Fe-Ti-Se.

I cannot use Te-Si-Ne-Fi because I have no idea what it actually is. I can only formulate a rough picture according to how Te and Si users describe these functions, but I cannot truly know.

We begin with the dominant and auxiliary, and as we grow older, come in better contact with their unconscious opposites (yin and yang, see previous post). However, there is no reason for us to be aware of the other four functions, therefore, we do not use them.

Te looks nothing like Fe. Ni looks nothing like Si. Fi looks nothing like Ti... see where this is going?

Although don't listen to me, I'm an ENFP... :rolleyes:
 
Te looks nothing like Fe. Ni looks nothing like Si. Fi looks nothing like Ti... see where this is going?

Te works very much like Fe, and derives from the same place as Ti. So Fe, when used alongside Ti, looks exactly like Te.

If you don't agree, I'd suggest you go study cognitive functions a bit more.
 
The problem with people who say they can use whichever function is that functions are more or less like traits or skills for them. So when you say "I'm aware of group morals, so I must be using Fe", it doesn't really mean anything. Anyone can see these things, it's not a defining point of a function.

You're using a different mental frame to asses what a function is.

The reason is simple. Redundancy. Fe and Fi are both functions that asses value. Why do you need both? You don't just as much as you don't have or need two hearts to pump blood, because you already have one organ that is fulfilling this function.


i can not believe that you are right. That would mean that an Fi user doesn't use Fe and therefore has no understanding of common ethics or take it into account when making decissions.

I for instance now that there are some common ethics that rule our society and people base there judgements on them. For me it is not ok to just follow those rules only because the majorety of people do so (Fi) but that doesn't mean i'm not aware of them or that I dismiss them. I do make decissions based on them but it is not my prefered method of decission making, same as Te is not my prefered method either. so I think this is an example on how Fi users do use Fe. Proof me wrong...
You are using Te to read the external dynamic, but in a way that is channeled through your Fi. You are always using your functions, even if they are inferior, they are always there, in stealth mode, even if you aren't completely aware of this. But for all I know you are perfectly aware, you just think it's something else, due to having a different idea of what each function is.

Well you're saying that an Fe user can't tap into Fi, this is like saying a major part of your brain is completely cut off.
This is a very illogical argument. Do you know where are the functions located in the brain? Can you point out the exact regions of the brain that produce Fe or Fi?

Unless you do know this, you can't claim anything about parts of the brain being shut off. Again, this is a poor understand of what a function is and what it isn't. Also, for fucks sake, type is not a personality. These are two very different things.

Functions can interact in extremely nuanced ways. You can have two people with the same type, but they can be nothing alike on the outside. They can have fully different opinions, beliefs, interests, traits. Similarly, you can have people with entirely different functions, but as their functions interact they produce the same kind of output.

You have to do a lot of theorizing to understand how functions can produce varied output, but when considering functions themselves, you need to do your best to strip them of all of the unnecessary context, to try to understand how the underlying mechanism works, to look at them like a formula that will output a different result depending on the the inputted variables.

If you don't care about digging out the essence than that's fine too, and it doesn't really matter.
 
This is a very illogical argument. Do you know where are the functions located in the brain? Can you point out the exact regions of the brain that produce Fe or Fi?

How can I take your post seriously if you took this comment 100% literally?
 
How can I take your post seriously if you took this comment 100% literally?

Because it is not even like saying a major part of your brain is shut off. I'm aware you made a comparison, but I think it is an inaccurate comparison.
 
Wow, I butchered my last post on here. Used INFJ instead of INFP.

i can not believe that you are right. That would mean that an Fi user doesn't use Fe and therefore has no understanding of common ethics or take it into account when making decissions.

Actually, every definite user of Fi I have ever met does not comprehend common ethics unless they do it from a theoretical standpoint. As a person living their lives gravitate to a value system, and from everything that I have seen, they then impose that value system on the reality around them using their other functions. Even if they can grasp Fe-like thinking in theory, in practice they invariably revert back to their natural state of validating personal values. I am mainly talking about types like the INFP, ISFP, and even the ISTJ. I haven't analyzed all Fi types.

That an Fi-user's personal value system may be only a biased morality that they and very few others possess doesn't seem to register with them generally. Even if they consider it, they wont reject their core values to adopt a global way of thinking that accommodates conflicting beliefs. They either can't, or doing so would be so emotionally damaging as to cause them a mental disorder.

Fi by definition is a personal value system that focuses on what is important to the self... these things it focuses on may be great things like, honesty, integrity, and compassion. That's fine, but you're arbitrarily defining what is good and acting upon it. Fe users do the same thing, but the focus is different. It's group-level morality rather than a personal one. Fe is validated when I behave in a way that maintains group cohesion, improves the group, or receives recognition by the group. I'll have my personal thoughts on how best Fe can do this, and I can call that personal values. Yet if my personal values never serve the group in any way, I wont feel very good about them and Fe will not be validated.

Fi users could theoretically create an Fe-like effect in their personality by using their other functions, as previously stated, but doing so would be alien to them since it would require rejecting Fi. Rejecting Fi, if in your top two functions, should cause you problems just as rejecting my Fe to simulate Te causes problems.

I am actually not bad at doing this. I can simulate Te really well. Yet it is Fe simulating it by relying on Se + Ti to do the thinking. Te types make quicker and crisper decisions than me because it is a natural behavior learned in childhood rather than an acquired behavior in adulthood. Yet, when I am given adequate thinking time, given the right situation, I'll take charge and be an implementer. Ti runs overtime and Se picks up on details and past experiences; the effect is Fe is suppressed and I am unable to enter any lengthy Ni-related thought. I still implement using Fe; though, and a skilled interpreter of facial expressions can pick-up on the Fe still being present rather than me using Te. (I have heard the difference is that the INFJ suppressing Fe looks like they're depressed, while the real Te user does not. This coincides with my experiences.)

Anyway, doing this is highly draining on me as it uses my weakest functions. I will always naturally revert back to using Ni and Fe because that's where I am healthiest.

So if Fi users want to pretend they're using Fe and call it that, I guess I don't have a problem with it, since in-practice it will achieve the same result. The difference only really matters for people who are discerning which type they actually are. It also matters in that, if you're simulating a function you don't actually possess, it will be highly draining on you. Likely, you'll need respite time afterward. Furthermore, if you go around using this function that you don't possess, because you think you possess it; a mental disorder might surface.

As for shadow functions... from what I've read on it, those shadow functions might only surface in highly stressed states, which to me implies we're not using those functions but merely simulating them.
 
Fi by definition is a personal value system that focuses on what is important to the self... these things it focuses on may be great things like, honesty, integrity, and compassion. That's fine, but you're arbitrarily defining what is good and acting upon it. Fe users do the same thing, but the focus is different. It's group-level morality rather than a personal one. Fe is validated when I behave in a way that maintains group cohesion, improves the group, or receives recognition by the group. I'll have my personal thoughts on how best Fe can do this, and I can call that personal values. Yet if my personal values never serve the group in any way, I wont feel very good about them and Fe will not be validated.
This definitely confirms that I in fact do have Fe, thanks!
 
I miss @VH; and his brain scans... :| He's one of the most knowledgeable person in MBTI here. I think he can explain which part of our brain is working when we use different functions.
 
I miss @VH; and his brain scans... :| He's one of the most knowledgeable person in MBTI here. I think he can explain which part of our brain is working when we use different functions.

Actually, functions are not literally located in the brain, and I can quote Lenore Thomson who was one of the first to perpetrate that idea on that. There is only a correlation between functions and brain processes.

http://web.archive.org/web/20061210155437/http://www.greatlakesapt.org/uploads/media/beebe1.PDF


Personally, I take issue with the idea of the functional divide between the Left and Right brain, due to accounts of people who apparently have a normal functional hierarchy with just one brain hemisphere and brain plasticity.

[MENTION=2172]Trifoilum[/MENTION]; if you're interested in relation of typology and brain function I can link you to some interesting material regarding that.
 
I miss @VH; and his brain scans... :| He's one of the most knowledgeable person in MBTI here. I think he can explain which part of our brain is working when we use different functions.

Ya and he had class. God I miss him.
 
I miss [MENTION=708]VH[/MENTION] ; and his brain scans... :| He's one of the most knowledgeable person in MBTI here. I think he can explain which part of our brain is working when we use different functions.

Agreed. He was one of our best gurus in typology.
 
I did, and while I agree with it. Its also a very detached take on type.

I'm sick of NT's coming on and thinking they know everything and us poor NF folks don't know anything.

Why don't you try interacting with NF's for a bit and see how we are. I'm sure we are more than you would think.


Ya and he had class. God I miss him.

So basically what you're saying is that one won't be taken seriously here unless they've personally related to members and the community and built relationships?
 
Now now. this seems to be quite heated; calm down, okay? :| /Fe playing before sleep
 
So basically what you're saying is that one won't be taken seriously here unless they've personally related to members and the community and built relationships?

For gods sake Peppermint. I considered Von a good friend and someone I respected greatly. Your so off base you need to step back. So please watch what you say.

This has nothing to do with my thoughts on NTs, But your comments not helping my feelings towards any person of human race at this moment.

So stop trying to put words in my mouth. This is part of the reason I'm not posting as much anymore. Because this board is turning into something I can't stand. Something so anti what it should be its making me sick.

If you must know what I meant. Von had a lot of things going for him. He was very good looking and in great shape (especially at his age), he was very smart and had a lot of good experiences. I admired him for that and for the fact he didn't gloat about what he had and had done. He was where I wanted to be at his age. Having lived well and still doing so.

And yes he was very good at typing even if we didn't always agree. I happened to be thinking of him today when this comment came to my mind.

So why don't you just back off. And check your own bias while your at it.
 
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Is it really heated? I'm not seeing it. >.>

Edit: Hey, I guess you saw it coming before me... *sigh*

You know you might want to be more careful when you call people out. As I said get your own house in order before coming after me.
 
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