Wow, I'm surprised at the response, because I don't relate to the descriptions of Fe
at all.
I totally love the INFP stuff, it makes a lot of sense and I've learnt from it (My GF sister is an INFP and I can see a lot of what has been written in her and my GF concurs).
My problem is with Fe- my Fe doesn't work like this at all. Maybe it's the way it's been described.. I'm now totally lost as to whether I have developed Fi or not. Maybe I am Ni>Fi>Fe? All I know is that I am definitely an Fe user in the immediate sense and in my long terms goals as well- those are built on the foundation of my Ni+Fe core personality- but I really don't relate to the Fe described here. I also have an ENFJ friend whom I've know for 3 years and his Fe doesn't seem to look like the one described either.
Because they relate to the external world primarily in terms of collectively upheld, objectively verified (by widely accepted cultural and social standards) ethical perspectives, they will often find themselves more readily capable of immediately generating rapport with others (assuming they are not NiTi loops, in which case they will be absolutely horrible at it), but short-term Fe rapport often lacks the depth of deeply personal connection upon which Fi dominants thrive (and provides the basis for the primary Fi criticism of Fe philosophy.)
I don't know what to say about this... I look for meaningful, deep relationships with everyone. If I approach someone, or extrovert with people, I'm always searching for a deeply personal connection. Albeit, I rarely get it, but I'm always trying to encourage it because that is how I want it to be. BUT It's always about the other person. I treat people the way I feel they should be treated because I care about that particular person or people collectively. That doesn't mean I roll over and let people treat me like shit, in which case, Ti kicks in and allows me to be assertive, maintaining my self-esteem and objectively upholding my Fe beliefs. The thing is, my Ni is extremely adept at figuring out who is and isn't worth it. My Fe only gets to flex in the right circumstances, which is clearly a shame and something I have to work on without becoming a faceless people pleaser.
In terms of generating quick rapport- obviously, my Fe use isn't like an ENFJ or ESFJ, it takes a loooong time for people to get to know me and for me to show them my true self. Although if I'm in a group; for instance teaching or giving a presentation or talking about something, my access to unadulterated Fe is much smoother because I love to teach, pass on knowledge and help people grow and I love that people want to listen to what I have to say.
I was always in awe of my ENFJ friend, how he could approach someone and get them to tell him their life story, because he radiated warmth and understanding. He genuinely cared about everyone he met, or at least tried his best to see the good in them. His body language, facial expressions and words all made people feel at home around him. Fe is all about how things should be and, together with Ni, how they
could be better. A lot of things in the article, above and below, sound to me like SFJ processes.
INFP: "I know just how you feel--I've felt just the same way when that happened to me, and it really hurt. You should be able to say how you feel even if others don't always necessarily think it's appropriate--as long as it's truly from the heart. You should never go against what your personal moral compass says, even if that goes against the commonly accepted morality of all of your close family and friends and anyone you respect. I don't want to know what you should feel--I want to know what you do feel."
INFJ: "I can sympathize with where you're coming from--allow me to emphasize some sort of cultural bond or familial connection that relates us in an objectively observable way and suggests that we have some degree of responsibility toward each other. Only through committed responsibility to these objective relationships can we form the social hierarchy by which we will decide--together through collective experience--what constitutes moral and ethical behavior within the communal bonds of our lives together. Morality is simply too important to be decided by any individual without any input from the consensus of the people he trusts, loves and respects."
Is there a reason why the INFJ bit is written in a
totally different language? I think it's taking the FJ thing a bit too far, as if to say that FJs are going to write a contract of social rules that you must adhere to and thus speak in a way that will make their infinite J-ness and intrinsic anal retentiveness
as obvious as possible.
I disagree with your idea that empathy is for Fi and sympathise for Fe. If anything, an Fe user empathises whilst an Fi user sympathises. As written above an Fe user doesn't need to have had experienced something bad directly, in order to feel bad for someone else- that's what empathy is. According to the arcticle, the Fi user, has to dip into their own past experiences and relate them, in order to empathise. But I don't think every INFP has to do this in order to be empathetic.
**It's worth noting that Fe doesn't mean automatically conforming to whatever the people who happen to be physically surrounding you right now are doing. That's a big misconception about Fe. It simply means drawing on the moral opinions of the people who are genuinely important to you--your friends, family, any group or "tribe" to whom you feel an emotional obligation--in order to consider a wide variety of relevant information in order to make moral decisions in a way that can be collectively understood and upheld by a large group of people. Note that Fe's focus--providing a collective framework by which groups can judge morality objectively across many contexts--is more practical and utilitarian, while Fi's--providing a personal sense of how to judge the inherent value or worth of the essence of people and ideas--is much more idealistic and individualized. Je creates external sense of communal structure; Ji creates internal sense of personal value.
I agree with the utilitarian approach of Fe as opposed to the individualism of Fi but Fe for SFJs works differently for NFJs. First of all, the words "community", "familial", "tribe" and "group" are not things that NFJs relate too. They are interested in the greater good no matter the context or structure. The point is, NF's don't feel a sense of community generally. That's one of the tragic ironies but that is mostly of no consequence to NFJs because they're not really interested anyway. I also don't relate the whole "consulting your tribe" approach to ethics and morality. I think an NFJ would be pretty dismayed with themselves if they couldn't make a moral decision without consulting others around them. I think they have an intrinsic understanding of group dynamics and how things should be.
It's often very difficult to convince an Ni dominant on a mission to stop and reconsider what you have to say. Typically, INJs have already given substantial consideration to the future implications of their actions, and thus once Je has made up its mind and begun executing the plan, it's really going to throw a wrench in the INJ's day to stop and listen to your critiques. Ni has thought through each angle individually and in depth, and now Fe (or Te, for INTJs) is carrying out the plan.
And so, to continue the earlier pattern, INFJs will appear steadfast now (Fe), and flexible later (Ni.) It all just depends on where they are in the planning stages/how close they feel to achieving the singular vision of the future they are constantly developing, and whether or not they know you well enough to trust you with seeing their raw, exposed Ni without the Fe side smoothing things over. They are keenly aware that this is not something a great many people can be trusted with seeing.
Very true.
Ti can have a negative impact when it's poorly developed or when it blocks out Fe to an unhealthy degree--the NiTi loop INFJ is brutally anti-social and absolutely clueless as to how to relate to the rest of humanity. One INFJ friend told me that Ni is a very deep hole that it's very easy to get lost in and never come back. =/
INFJ as teenagers = worst time of your life
For the INFJ, inferior Se has a similar slow building process over time, and is arguably much nastier and more difficult to deal with. The first thing I always think of in reference to inferior Se is Black Flag singer Henry Rollins (obvious INFJ), and the stories of him beating the living snot out of kids who spit on him on stage, back stage after the shows.
Se represents the raw, animalistic, aggressive, spontaneous hunger for the reality of pure, literal sensory input which Ni dominants take so much care to lock away and hide from others as much as they can. As a tertiary function for ENJs, Se has a much more helpful use, because it's under their control enough that they can use it to show others they care about appearances and trends (for Te- or Fe-oriented business goals), and, if necessary, to subtly imply threats of brute force if the adversary cannot muster up the discipline to respect the ENJ's polite requests for obedience.
But as an inferior function, few INJs learn to command Se to a degree that it becomes a substantial part of their regular healthy cognition. Its literal focus on precisely what is immediately obvious is something many INJs spend their entire lives working hard to eliminate in themselves, insistent that such shallow focus is beneath the sophistication of their constant work to see all the less obvious, hidden interpretations where Ni feels at home. But Se is still there...lurking under the surface, waiting to boil over. You don't want to be around an INFJ when it does.
Ideally, inferior Se should eventually help the INFJ to stop looking for deeper meaning in places where it's neither intended nor useful, to appreciate the more immediate value in that which is tangible and real to others (even though she herself may see it as trivially insubstantial), and to maintain a degree of spontaneity in terms of ability to pay attention to and imitate what others around her see as current and worthy of attention. Sometimes this is the only way the INFJ can get anyone to pay enough attention to what he's saying to make any real noticeable impact or difference in the world--and that's something most INFJs struggle their whole lives to feel like they are doing.
Agreed. Personally I've found a great outlet for my Se and find I switch to Se+Ti in times of immediate physical or emotional conflict.
Overall, I don't think this article paints an accurate portrayal of Fe- at least not for me and the other INFJ and ENFJ that I know. Some INFP will read it and still say "OMG FE IS SO SHALLOW AND FAKE D:". There are great threads about Fe on this forum, especially by the member Von Hase.
