Internet Trolls Actually Trained By Gov't?

[Faye]

I have a really difficult time believing the government would do this just because I don't see why they would actually need to, but I would not be surprised at all if big pharma or other profit driven enterprises did it.

 

[the]

I have a really difficult time believing the government would do this just because I don't see why they would actually need to, but I would not be surprised at all if big pharma or other profit driven enterprises did it.

The government doesn't need to do it. Government officials do it for bribes from big pharma and other profit driven enterprises. It's another pool of money for those organizations to draw resources from.

 

[CogentPursuit]

In a place like the internet with much freedom of speech, bad idea vigilantes are the policing force that make way for real ideas.

 

[muir]

Everyone here is too comfortable in their shit. That is the problem.

Another problem is the presentation of these conspiratorial facts is very poor and the names and faces of these enemies to humanity need to be exposed and names, faces, and home addresses are rarely produced.

The conversation can be taken up a notch but it often gets dragged back to basics but I do mention specific names

A good way to get an idea of the usual suspects is just to scan the membership list of the council on foreign relations. You don't even need to visit their site to do this...you can view large parts of it on wikipedia!

This think tank represents the globalist clique in the US

It lists politicians, corporations, media people, banking people etc

Those are the people who basically want to disarm you, destroy the constitution and bring in a global totalitarian government

When you look into the various aspects of the conspiracy you do find the same names cropping up AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN

So some names i come across all the time are: George Soros, Bill Gates, the Rockefeller family

But the 'crown' ie the directorate (cabal) who run the corporation of the city of london include the Rothschild family...they are front and centre. The head of their family is currently Evelyn de rothschild

 

[muir]

I have a really difficult time believing the government would do this just because I don't see why they would actually need to, but I would not be surprised at all if big pharma or other profit driven enterprises did it.

The US political system is so driven by money for example i think Obama raised a billion dollars or something insane like that.....but basically that money is all corporate money

The corporations expect something in return for the money

The politicians who get into power in such a system are not principle politicians ie they are not living by their principles...they are guns for hire..or more specifically suits for hire!

They do what they're told by their corporate paymasters and then when they quit politics they get jobs in the corporations; this is known as the 'revolving door' because people move backwards and forwards between the corporations and the government

The CIA is largely the military wing of the corporate network whose public face is the council on foreign relations; the CIA operates to protect corporate interests around the world

 

[muir]

lol quit being delusional you autistic baby.

So this is a good example of the ad hominum attacks i mentioned

lol

Do these people think i take them seriously?

I don't have this undying do-no-wrong attitude about the US that you've apparently imagined. Yes, I like shooty things and shooty mans; the fight and combat are things very integral to my being. This doesn't mean I'm the cousin of the nephew of a powerful general who works in the Pentagon or some bullshit. I'm a poor kid in a poor home with poor connections. If I disagree with things you say, it's because I think they're retarded. Simple as.

You just admited i was right and then said i was wrong? How does that work?

I think if you caught a bullet you wouldn't find them so glamourous anymore

But i didn't say you had high up links to the military i just supposed you had a brother or uncle or cousin or something in the marines

btw, if you're going to cry agent provocateur and play victim to a network of people interested only in bringing you down, at least wrap my name in mention tags so I can come call you an asshole sooner rather than later.

I'm not playing victim...go back to the start of the thread and you'll see that i get mentioned and attacked before i even came to the thread

So you can't claim that something that is there for all to see doesn't exist

if someone is attacked then they are not 'playing the victim'

 

[CogentPursuit]

Forget the term 'conspiracy theorist'...that term is for 2 types of people:

1. government & corporate media people trying to shut up the opposition
2. ignorant people who don't know what is going on (and therefore can't tell the difference between missinfo and good info)

I don't post 'conspiracy theories' i post well informed analysis which is why i make so many correct predictions on this forum

I wish I could believe someone or a few are responsible for the corruption in the system but that is too easy, it indicates a solution. A person who wants a solution bad enough will invent one. I prefer to accept reality. We have created a system, a living organism, that no person can control. We are slaves to this organism in the same way neurons are slaves to the brain. We could rebel or try to change course with drastic measures but we would just be removed like cancer. The reality is that there is no solution.

 

[the]

I wish I could believe someone or a few are responsible for the corruption in the system but that is too easy, it indicates a solution. A person who wants a solution bad enough will invent one. I prefer to accept reality. We have created a system, a living organism, that no person can control. We are slaves to this organism in the same way neurons are slaves to the brain. We could rebel or try to change course with drastic measures but we would just be removed like cancer. The reality is that there is no solution.

how have you determined that this is truly reality?

 

[Tin Man]

See here is the problem I have with conspiracy theories. Most of the people who believe them (or the ones I've met anyway) are people who want to be special. Those who believe they know the truth and everyone else is a blind sheeple (not talking about anyone on this forum). And so many of people who post about these conspiracies have little evidence and will use any the thinnest connections to support their beliefs. They won't listen to any reasonable argument or accept flaws in their thinking.

So I have two choices: approach all of these people with skepticism and even outright disbelief or research each claims and look for proof behind the theory. The latter would take numerous manhours and I just don't really care enough. There is undoubtedly shady crap that numerous corporations and governments are involved in, but investing all that time and effort into finding out which claims are true and which are not is just not worth my time.

 

[Trifoilum]

It's quite possible, if you want to entertain the idea.
Not just governments, but corporations (Think false reviews), organizations...fandom..a club...a lot of things.

And they do not need to be EVERY trolls. Just the first few ones, summoning others with genuine hostility / anger / distaste.

If people want to manipulate others that way, it's...quite easy, I noticed. Subtle statements that altered the perception, or vividly LOUD statements that obscured other points.

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist / 'seeing the TRUTH' to see that.
I refuse to connect it in any way though, and not in the way muir had done here, so.

 

[muir]

I'm not saying you're wrong because you're a delusional, autistic baby, I'm just saying that you're a delusional, autistic baby. Insults are different from ad hominem, I think we've discussed this before.



Okay?



It's called a joke you humorless fuck.

What i find interesting is that i've already said in this thread that what you do is attack me but you don't post information like i do....you just attack me

And you've just proved it in your last two posts

It's just funny is all

But the problem is that you clutter up the threads with all your name callin and hostility and you prevent information being put over because time is wasted responding to your abuse

 

[muir]

I wish I could believe someone or a few are responsible for the corruption in the system but that is too easy, it indicates a solution. A person who wants a solution bad enough will invent one. I prefer to accept reality. We have created a system, a living organism, that no person can control. We are slaves to this organism in the same way neurons are slaves to the brain. We could rebel or try to change course with drastic measures but we would just be removed like cancer. The reality is that there is no solution.

The other day i asked lark which he was:

a crawler who believed we should blindly obey authority and crawl on our bellies to it

or

a defeatist who thinks resistance is futile

Well i know which you are now....you are a defeatist

But you are wrong on both counts

The power IS very concentrated and this is demonstrable and secondly we can decentralise power down to the people which is the solution

So.....if you want to sit in a corner rocking back and forward saying over and over again: ''it's all over, there's nothing we can do, we just need to accept our fate'' then you do it, but please don't aim your defeatism at me because i know enough about how the world works to know who runs it and to know you are wrong

So quit trying to interrupt my discussions with your defeatism.....keep it to yourself or aim it elsewhere

 

[muir]

See here is the problem I have with conspiracy theories. Most of the people who believe them (or the ones I've met anyway) are people who want to be special.

I think you have it the wrong way round.....the people who discuss conspiracy theories are the people who point out that there is a small group of people who think they are special who are affecting all of our lives

if you listen to a lot of the people in the alternative media what they believe in is that the people should have more say in matters and shouldn't be dominated by forces that act unilaterally in the dark

So the alternatvie media people are those saying that we should all have a say, whilst the people they expose are the ones who think they are so special that they should make all the decisions for humanity

Your nation was formed when a group of people got together saying the people should have a say and that they shouldn't be dominated by a small el-ite based in another country

Those who believe they know the truth and everyone else is a blind sheeple (not talking about anyone on this forum).

If a person spends more time looking into matters they are likely to know more than you

If a computer tech advised you about your computer would it sting your pride to learn from him?

So why does it sting your pride to learn from someone who knows a lot about whats going on in the world?

Also many people spend their time playing computer games or watching TV but others like to spend their time getting informed; i think its a bit retarded for those that spend their time doing things that don't expand their mind to criticise those that do

No one forces you to go into threads discussing current affairs...go and play a computer game instead and leave the discussions on current affairs to those that are interested in them....but don't complain about how some people like to get informed..it clogs up the threads

And so many of people who post about these conspiracies have little evidence and will use any the thinnest connections to support their beliefs. They won't listen to any reasonable argument or accept flaws in their thinking.

I think you are in danger here of the ''tar-ing everyone with the same brush' logical fallacy

You should take each person as they come

So I have two choices: approach all of these people with skepticism and even outright disbelief

For me the big question is: ''why don't you approach the corporate media with the same level of skepticism?''

or research each claims and look for proof behind the theory. The latter would take numerous manhours and I just don't really care enough.

If you don't care then perhaps you shouldn't post in threads like these? because you just clog them up with ''i don't care, i'm not listening, i don't wanna know bla bla bla'' because many people are interested in current events so why not let them discuss them?

if you are not interested then bow out of the threads

Besides with the internet fact checking is pretty easy and fast these days

There is undoubtedly shady crap that numerous corporations and governments are involved in, but investing all that time and effort into finding out which claims are true and which are not is just not worth my time.

I disagree

I think the events of the world are going to affect all of us more and more and as they do more and more people will be paying attention

This is because of the nature of what is being done and how it is being done and unfortunately the game they are playing is such that as president eisenhower said: ''only an alert and knowledgable citizenry'' can hope to keep the balance of power in the US

Whole generations have been lulled by consumerism and cheap credit into forgetting that tyranny is only kept at bay by the people resisting it because unfortunatly there are psychopaths in the world and birds of a feather flock together

 

[muir]

It's quite possible, if you want to entertain the idea.
Not just governments, but corporations (Think false reviews), organizations...fandom..a club...a lot of things.

And they do not need to be EVERY trolls. Just the first few ones, summoning others with genuine hostility / anger / distaste.

If people want to manipulate others that way, it's...quite easy, I noticed. Subtle statements that altered the perception, or vividly LOUD statements that obscured other points.

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist / 'seeing the TRUTH' to see that.
I refuse to connect it in any way though, and not in the way muir had done here, so.

You're right there are many groups who are trying to manipulate how people perceive reality

It used to be called 'propaganda' but now it is called 'public relations'

lol

I remember watching the documentary called 'the corporation' which talks about how the corporations will pay people to push their products in the street; so for example a fast food restaurant will pay someone to go out into public places and eat their burger and fries and cola in front of other people, so people see the brand logo and think:''hmmm i'm hungry...i could really do with a burger!''

People are very impressionable...this is particularly noticable in young children...as soon as they see another kid with somethign they want it! Sadly many adults are the same....the toys change but the people are the same

 

[Switchgirl]

lol quit being delusional you autistic baby.

Are you trying to imply that being austisic is a bad thing? (In the context you've used it in in your argument with muir). Because if so, that's really offensive. Call it getting butt hurt, but I know people who have autism that are wonderful and greatly intelligent.

I never, ever try to involve myself into the ongoing drama and arguments on this forum but this just really bothered me. A solid argument doesn't have to resort to name calling.

 

[muir]

Are you trying to imply that being austisic is a bad thing? (In the context you've used it in in your argument with muir). Because if so, that's really offensive. Call it getting butt hurt, but I know people who have autism that are wonderful and greatly intelligent.

I never, ever try to involve myself into the ongoing drama and arguments on this forum but this just really bothered me. A solid argument doesn't have to resort to name calling.

I agree with you but there was no solid argument.....these discussions follow a pattern.....i make a solid case and a few people throw abuse at me

When i talk to those people though i find that they are very cynical

I believe that they are deeply hurt

I also believe that one of the main reasons why it is so important for society to improve the environment that we all grow up in is because a bad environment leaves many people hurt and hurt people lose hope in other people and in life in general

When someone comes along saying ''hey guys i think i have an idea about what can be done about the world'' they are so despondant that they ridicule and attack the person

We had a vote recently in my country to see if we wanted to become independent and it has been a very interesting experience to listen to the arguments on both sides

One side was the side of hope and belief in positive change and the other side was the vote of fear and a defeatist attitude of: ''that's just the way things are'' or ''better the devil you know'' etc

But if you think logically a defeatist attitude is self defeating because it works like this: ''there's no way that anything can ever get any better, so i'm not going to even try to do anything to make things better''...and therefore NOTHING EVER GETS BETTER!

Many people are feeling hurt and cynical in the world at the moment and it is difficult to get people to believe in themselves and each other because that is essentially what we must all do if we are to collectively take responsibility and take control back off various negative forces which are shaping our world (most recently with a war in the middle east) instead of just handing over all the power and wealth to a few that will oppress us...to do that requires belief...it requires self esteem...it needs for people to look at themselves and the people around them and say: ''we can think for ourselves and act responsibly without having a central authority tell us what to do over every aspect of our lives''

There are positive signs of people rising up and believeing that positive change is posible but they are always held back by a section of the public who are defeatist

I saw this happen in a trade union dispute as well (through which i lost my job!)...i don't know if there is an MBTI correlation but for an INFJ it's frustrating because many INFJ's can see over the mountain top...they know what could be achieved if enough people dare to dream

 

[Tin Man]

I think you have it the wrong way round.....the people who discuss conspiracy theories are the people who point out that there is a small group of people who think they are special who are affecting all of our lives

if you listen to a lot of the people in the alternative media what they believe in is that the people should have more say in matters and shouldn't be dominated by forces that act unilaterally in the dark

So the alternatvie media people are those saying that we should all have a say, whilst the people they expose are the ones who think they are so special that they should make all the decisions for humanity

Your nation was formed when a group of people got together saying the people should have a say and that they shouldn't be dominated by a small el-ite based in another country

No, my nation was formed through warring tribes and numerous invasions. It was formed by one group of blood thirsty idiots fighting another group of blood thirsty idiots. Even those who are considered heroes in Ireland's fight for independence were fueled by greed and self interest.

If a person spends more time looking into matters they are likely to know more than you

If a computer tech advised you about your computer would it sting your pride to learn from him?

So why does it sting your pride to learn from someone who knows a lot about whats going on in the world?

Also many people spend their time playing computer games or watching TV but others like to spend their time getting informed; i think its a bit retarded for those that spend their time doing things that don't expand their mind to criticise those that do

No one forces you to go into threads discussing current affairs...go and play a computer game instead and leave the discussions on current affairs to those that are interested in them....but don't complain about how some people like to get informed..it clogs up the threads

How do you expect me to respond to this? You're using a strawman argument to suggest that I'm rejecting your claims out of wounded pride and stupidity. I wasn't trying to offend you; I thought what I posted was fair and nonjudgmental. Rather than just accept that I see a different side of things, you attack me instead.

I think you are in danger here of the ''tar-ing everyone with the same brush' logical fallacy

You should take each person as they come

I clearly said that this was my own personal experience of conspiracy theorists. I'm not saying all of them are like that only the ones I've met. I also said that taking the time to go through each claim made by a conspiracy theorist would take more time than I have to devote to such things.

For me the big question is: ''why don't you approach the corporate media with the same level of skepticism?''

I certainly do. This is something I also mentioned in my post, that governments and corporations are far from trustworthy.

If you don't care then perhaps you shouldn't post in threads like these? because you just clog them up with ''i don't care, i'm not listening, i don't wanna know bla bla bla'' because many people are interested in current events so why not let them discuss them?

if you are not interested then bow out of the threads

Besides with the internet fact checking is pretty easy and fast these days

Again you insult me. Your opinion is not absolute, certainly you may claim more knowledge than me, but there are many who claim you to be ignorant and spreading mistruths.

Fact checking is not so simple as it appears. There are many sites who take their information from other sites, who in turn get their info from yet other sources. To check each claim made by someone on the internet would take complete devotion.

I disagree

I think the events of the world are going to affect all of us more and more and as they do more and more people will be paying attention

This is because of the nature of what is being done and how it is being done and unfortunately the game they are playing is such that as president eisenhower said: ''only an alert and knowledgable citizenry'' can hope to keep the balance of power in the US

Whole generations have been lulled by consumerism and cheap credit into forgetting that tyranny is only kept at bay by the people resisting it because unfortunatly there are psychopaths in the world and birds of a feather flock together

Fine. I'm okay with that. Perhaps you're right and we're all being made increasingly stupid and lethargic by the state in order to control us. I don't deny your right to assume this, just as I would prefer you would not deny my right to disagree with it.

 

[Delta]

If so they would have to belong to a cult. I can't see how else they would get past practicalities such as getting a mortgage ect based on their job. I have come across some strange persons previously on another site and they said they belonged to a cult called thelema. Total weirdos.

 

[muir]

No, my nation was formed through warring tribes and numerous invasions. It was formed by one group of blood thirsty idiots fighting another group of blood thirsty idiots. Even those who are considered heroes in Ireland's fight for independence were fueled by greed and self interest.

They wanted their country to not be ruled by the Uk government and there was also a strong socialist dimension to the movement

They believed in each other, worked together and acheived a result

How do you expect me to respond to this? You're using a strawman argument to suggest that I'm rejecting your claims out of wounded pride and stupidity. I wasn't trying to offend you; I thought what I posted was fair and nonjudgmental. Rather than just accept that I see a different side of things, you attack me instead.

What you said wasn't 'fair' because you are making blanket statements about 'conspiracy theorists' when the thread wasn't even about conspiracy theorists it was about how governments hire people to disrupt the 'conspiracy theorists'

If you don't believe that the government tell the truth all the time then you must believe that sometimes they conspire to lie to the public

if you believe in democracy then you should also believe that it is in the public interest for them to know when their government is lying to them

if you believe that then you should believe it is ok for the public to discuss such matters amongst themselves

Pretty logical...

I clearly said that this was my own personal experience of conspiracy theorists. I'm not saying all of them are like that only the ones I've met. I also said that taking the time to go through each claim made by a conspiracy theorist would take more time than I have to devote to such things.

Then why give the time to even say that much?

It's a negative

You could choose to write anything you want on the thread and you have chosen to ignore the title of the thread or to condemn the government for their programme of public deception and have instead chosen to use your time and energy to condemn those members of the public that are trying to reveal the deceptions of the government

Imo that is totally negative because its not the conspiracy theorists who are causing problems with your economy or with foreign wars and so on...its the government and the corporate powers that control them...so why would you attack the people on your own side of that power struggle?

I certainly do. This is something I also mentioned in my post, that governments and corporations are far from trustworthy.

Again you insult me. Your opinion is not absolute,

Most the time i'm not offering 'opinion' i'm offering information

certainly you may claim more knowledge than me, but there are many who claim you to be ignorant and spreading mistruths.

Yeah and i've spoken at length to those people, i've heard them out and i've questioned them and i've found their knowledge to be very shallow

Fact checking is not so simple as it appears. There are many sites who take their information from other sites, who in turn get their info from yet other sources. To check each claim made by someone on the internet would take complete devotion.

Like i say different people spend their time differently

Some would rather zone out whilst others tune in

Fine. I'm okay with that. Perhaps you're right and we're all being made increasingly stupid and lethargic by the state in order to control us. I don't deny your right to assume this, just as I would prefer you would not deny my right to disagree with it.

You are welcome to your own opinion but you are not welcome to your own facts

 

[muir]

If so they would have to belong to a cult. I can't see how else they would get past practicalities such as getting a mortgage ect based on their job.

The government trolls are PAID to troll

trolling is how they pay for their mortgages just like bombing people remotely is how drone pilots pay for their mortgages

I have come across some strange persons previously on another site and they said they belonged to a cult called thelema. Total weirdos.

I would advise caution with thelemites as well but thats not to say that everything they are saying should be discounted; many of them are likely to be very knowledgable on certain subject areas and if you like to learn and can look past your prejudices you can always learn things from pretty much anyone