INTJ+INFJ: help appreciated

[Matt3737]

To [MENTION=4822]Matt3737[/MENTION]

I'm sorry you got that type of response from the OP but clearly it's a case of him via "me, me, me" and when he's done ripping your heart out to get what he wants "screw you -- I'll insult you with personal attacks while I'm at it". I'm not sure how this person is NOT generalizing his own type. On their very best day (as in depressed and needy) INTJs are nice people. When you don't give them exactly what they ask for on a silver platter with full recognition, be prepared for war.

Yes, I can understand his defensiveness. It certainly doesn't help that [MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] enjoys posting in terse, provocative sentences although I enjoy her wittiness.
Unfortunately, we tend to characterize logic as being cold and unemotional which lends itself to being easily projected upon with our own emotional inferences.

 

[qyot]

Yes, I can understand his defensiveness. It certainly doesn't help that [MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] enjoys posting in terse, provocative sentences although I enjoy her wittiness.
Unfortunately, we tend to characterize logic as being cold and unemotional which lends itself to being easily projected upon with our own emotional inferences.

was [MENTION=564]acd[/MENTION] talking about the OP instead of you? That's what I read it as.

It's absolutely amazing I found this forum. It's like I'm conversing with my identical twins... discussions about INFJ. I knew I was was this type but never looked into it, took the test again & I'm the same.

 

[Ogre]

How long have you been going out? What do you think is the greatest source of tension in your relationship and how are you working to overcome that?

It've been 3 months. We hadn't got any real issue yet. There were problems with money (She is a lot older, and I am a student, so I can't afford going to the theatre sometimes, but it she told me It's okay, so i am not worried [just a bit]) and we have a long distance issue, that she dont want any kids, and I do. But it's a fresh relationship, and this is a further problem. We are so good, and honest to each other that I think when we got there, we can solve this somehow.

Is there anything that you wish your partner would do differently?

Well, there is a small thing. She has some dreams, that she could make it come true, but she isn't too ambitious about it. And I'm trying to push her, and it seems to work, so yeah maybe it won't be an issue after all

 

[el guapo]

matt, look at the quote you pulled and you will notice that i am only asking one question.

qyot, you are clearly jaded by your relationship with the one intj you have ever known. your ex may have been a bad guy but to state that all intjs are selfish or whatever because of your experience with just one is a fallacy. it would be like me saying that all infjs cover people's threads with spam and irrelevant, misinformed bullshit just because you, acd and matt are doing it. and yes, when i ask for specific information on an internet forum and i get spam, i do get upset. have respect. if you need to continue on with matt, please take it elsewhere and stop hijacking this thread.

ogre, thank you for posting. it sounds like the two of you have really good communication. in short my experience this has been paramount in ensuring that we are on the same page with everything and understand each others needs.

 

[Nixie]

[MENTION=5008]qyot[/MENTION]
Autistic? Feeler Logic Does Not Compute. I think this falls under "sweeping generalization".

 

[Nixie]

I will say that I have noticed that really strong Fe coupled with really strong Te kinda gets out of hand. I have seen some pretty bad battles between the two types on other forums. I can't really relate sometimes to the overly emotional worries that I see some INFJs express about how other's see them. I do however have a strong inner critic but it is more self directed. INFJs tend to think in terms of being responsible for other's feelings and in a relationship is seems that the other person becomes "them" too. They take the things you do and say (not on everything) as something that has deeper meanings toward themselves and I think that causes confusion.

Edit: I can't say I have dated an INFJ though. However, I have dated predominately Feelers.

 

[This]

matt, look at the quote you pulled and you will notice that i am only asking one question.

qyot, you are clearly jaded by your relationship with the one intj you have ever known. your ex may have been a bad guy but to state that all intjs are selfish or whatever because of your experience with just one is a fallacy. it would be like me saying that all infjs cover people's threads with spam and irrelevant, misinformed bullshit just because you, acd and matt are doing it. and yes, when i ask for specific information on an internet forum and i get spam, i do get upset. have respect. if you need to continue on with matt, please take it elsewhere and stop hijacking this thread.

ogre, thank you for posting. it sounds like the two of you have really good communication. in short my experience this has been paramount in ensuring that we are on the same page with everything and understand each others needs.

Asking what ones experience is, and asking one to make sweeping generalizations about "type matches" is more than one question even if you frame it as one question.

Why would you ask someone about their experiences and ask them to make sweeping generalizations about those experiences, and then tell that person they are jaded and criticize their lack of overall experience with the coupling when they answer the question that you asked them. Just because something is not the answer you would like does not make it spam, irrelevant, nor misinformed. You ask for respect yet you have none of it yourself. You come to a forum where no one knows you and you make demands. So my question to you is this, do you want answers to your questions or do you only want answers that cast intjs in the shadow of cupcakes and rainbows?

 

[acd]

matt, look at the quote you pulled and you will notice that i am only asking one question.

qyot, you are clearly jaded by your relationship with the one intj you have ever known. your ex may have been a bad guy but to state that all intjs are selfish or whatever because of your experience with just one is a fallacy. it would be like me saying that all infjs cover people's threads with spam and irrelevant, misinformed bullshit just because you, acd and matt are doing it. and yes, when i ask for specific information on an internet forum and i get spam, i do get upset. have respect. if you need to continue on with matt, please take it elsewhere and stop hijacking this thread.

ogre, thank you for posting. it sounds like the two of you have really good communication. in short my experience this has been paramount in ensuring that we are on the same page with everything and understand each others needs.

This thread is bullshit to begin with. You are not even able to ask an honest question. It is clear you are looking for people to foster any delusions you have. Sorry this hasnt turned out to be the circle jerk you hoped for.

 

[Nixie]

Honestly, I didn't see anything wrong with the original OP. Like I said, it is just a different way of communicating. Almost all the negativity I have seen is the same type of stuff I have seen when INTJs and INFJs bicker on other forums. The Fe statements and the Te logic tend to clash. While the perceived "tone" of the OP might seem bossy, it just appeared to be an INTJ setting parameters. Obviously the manner and approach off more than one person on this thread is kinda negative. I would think we could make some allowances for a newbie and not jump all over his ass outta the gate. I would also think the newbie could dial down the hostility too. See, everyone can be friends.

 

[acd]

He more demanded positive generalizations. I couldnt care less if he is new here. He isnt new at life and should at least be pleasant if he expects to be coddled. Would you mind breaking down how this is Te logic [MENTION=3096]Stormy1[/MENTION] ?

 

[Nixie]

Well, he was building a system to the type of answers he was looking for by asking a specific set of questions and then outlined a few parameters of what he would consider answers that would not fit into the ideal of what he was looking for.

He did ask for the bad side of such a pairing in the original OP. The parameter of not asking for someone to tell their horror story was because he was not looking for individual stories and/or drama responses (IMO) For example: [MENTION=5008]qyot[/MENTION] had a story about how her former partner had created bank accounts that she didn't know about. If the OP was looking for a "con" it could be that INTJs will make autonomous decisions as well as, have a general disregard for "norms" (or not care if most people don't hide such things and do what they want to do). The basic flaw may have been to refuse to understand that the target audience are not INTJs. That if you ask such a question, you will get highly personalized answers that may or may not be broken down into "just the facts" of the behaviors/habits.

I can understand the grief his posts have caused the other INFJs--to share something personal and have it so callously dismissed considering it was a "gift" in many ways to share something of themselves is understandable. I would say that the snarkiness was uncalled for.

My opinion was the OP was looking for ways to anticipate potential pitfalls and find a deeper understanding of how various INFJS thought about relationships with either an NT or and INTJ. Hopefully he has learned a lesson on how not to approach a forum full of them.

 

[This]

Hopefully he has learned a lesson on how not to approach a forum full of them.

I think you are probably right, I also think the OP was probably thrown onto the defensive a bit from the start of this thread which made his subsequent answers come off in a different light than they may otherwise have. This line I quoted sure made me chuckle though.

 

[grt$5vb]

@OP: The words you say will be remembered, and if not adhered to as law, she will become suspicious, and distrustful. We don't do well with bullshit, or inconsistencies. We need decisiveness. Don't let her catch you lying, or cheating, or it's over. This is a hard pairing, romantically, but I've heard it can be done.

 

[InvisibleJim]

This thread is marginal to my interests.

Pro-tip: INFJ has to let INTJ vent ethics, INTJ has to let INFJ vent logics.
Second pro-tip: INTP.

 

[dunolol]

See, as an INTJ, I specifically made an account here to tell you exactly and precisely why, with my extraverted thinking (!), you need to be careful not to use your extraverted thinking inappropriately/in a way that might offend other people, especially when those people happen to be F types.

I see this in the fact that you are using it, essentially, to filter out people who disagree with you by generalizing and not paying attention to their arguments that are indeed very relevant to your question -- particularly in your first "rule". I also see this in what appears to be your general attitude -- it seems like you are internalizing the stereotype of your personality type, which is something that is far too common and easy to do for any type. You're acting more INTJ than any INTJ that ever INTJ'd by posting a set of parameters in a forum post asking for relationship advice.

Now, I do understand you most likely did not intend to do any of this at all, because I think I've most certainly been in those shoes before myself. It's important to be careful to use your extraverted thinking mainly to challenge your ideas, since it seems like your (and my) first instinct is to use it to blindly affirm them -- and notice how I call it an instinct even though it involves thinking! Think about it.

In a sense, this is advice for your relationship as well -- few INFJs (especially), or honestly people in general, are going to appreciate the kind of behavior you have been showing here, and if I hadn't been there myself, I am positive I would have thought you were an extremely repulsive person. For some reason, I find myself extremely attracted to the idea of having an INFJ partner, though, so I wish you the best of luck and hope that your differences do not get the best of you.

I think I should also add that in general I'd say it's also important to be careful of your arrogance and cavalier attitude, especially when it comes to extraverted sensing. Here is an article explaining it more in-depth: http://personalityjunkie.com/the-intj/

 

[dunolol]

I wrote a big response but it vanished when I hit reply. Basically read this page and be more careful with your extraverted thinking/extraverted sensing: http://personalityjunkie.com/the-intj/

 

[grt$5vb]

I actually found the op's post to be helpful in telling me what he was looking for, and reminding me not to be too jaded & subjective. I did not mind it at all, and am quite confused at all the backlash he is receiving. *shrugs* I just like it when someone is direct & cuts through all the bullshit, and I definitely feel they maximize everyone's time by being specific about what they desire, and what they do not.

 

[el guapo]

Asking what ones experience is, and asking one to make sweeping generalizations about "type matches" is more than one question even if you frame it as one question.

Why would you ask someone about their experiences and ask them to make sweeping generalizations about those experiences, and then tell that person they are jaded and criticize their lack of overall experience with the coupling when they answer the question that you asked them. Just because something is not the answer you would like does not make it spam, irrelevant, nor misinformed. You ask for respect yet you have none of it yourself. You come to a forum where no one knows you and you make demands. So my question to you is this, do you want answers to your questions or do you only want answers that cast intjs in the shadow of cupcakes and rainbows?

firstly, i didn't ask for people to share their experiences. i actually specifically asked for them not to (in my original post). the point was that i was trying to limit my responses to people with relevant experience with the pairing that i could then apply to my own relationship later.
the answer that i would like is the kind of answer that i would get from people who actually address my question in the manner that i asked. if the responses that i get are not that, they are absolutely irrelevant and in some cases spam. that isn't a demand, its a plea to hopefully avoid the crap that people post on forums (see how well it worked!?). if i have been disrespectful, perhaps look to see what got me upset in the first place. and dear god, YES. I WANT ANSWERS TO MY QUESTIONS. lol.
(off topic: i don't care what your post count is.)

This thread is bullshit to begin with. You are not even able to ask an honest question. It is clear you are looking for people to foster any delusions you have. Sorry this hasnt turned out to be the circle jerk you hoped for.

finally you share your opinion: you think that i am delusional (duly noted)! i was worried that you didn't have an opinion and you were just trolling! thank you so much for sharing.

I actually found the op's post to be helpful in telling me what he was looking for, and reminding me not to be too jaded & subjective. I did not mind it at all, and am quite confused at all the backlash he is receiving. *shrugs* I just like it when someone is direct & cuts through all the bullshit, and I definitely feel they maximize everyone's time by being specific about what they desire, and what they do not.

thank you. this is absolutely what i was going for. i am truly sorry it worked out so sourly.

stormy, your 3rd paragraph in post 31 is probably a very good assessment. i didn't think to consider that sharing personal information is relatively sacred to infjs. oops. i did phrase my op like i would if i were addressing intjs and that was clearly a booboo.

thank you very much to those who responded "properly." you have been helpful.
seeing as how i have made myself out to be an asshole i doubt that i will get any more truly positive (as in helpful) feedback, so i'm pretty much done with this whole endeavor and will leave you all with this: have i been up in arms because im such a dick or is it because i actually wanted advice with my relationship, which i really care about, and instead i got hounded for my semantics?

 

[Relm]

I am a male intj. I am dating a female infj.
Does anybody have any experience with this pairing who would feel comfortable making sweeping generalizations about it? What's the good? What's the bad? What could be done better? What do you, if you are an infj (preferably heterosexual female) wish you could tell/could've told your partner?

the rules for posting in this thread:
-no posting about how personality types are vague and indeterminate. i mean, duh. we all know that and you're a member of this forum so get out of here with that crap.
-please refrain from posting if you are particularly jaded and, as a result, less than objective in your post.
-i can't think of anything else right now beyond "stay on topic" and "don't be an ass" which should always be courtesy, anyway

Thanks a bunch!

I'm an INFJ who is (newly) married to my INTJ soulmate (though we've lived together 4 years now). I do want to disclaimer that I've only had experience with my partner, I'd never dated another INTJ before him. I also want to say that he came to me as a very socially mature individual, one who had weathered a number of relationships with various colorful personalities. That said, here are a few thoughts, tips, and things that threw us for a loop in the beginning:

1.) I tend to take everything personally, he doesn't.
2.) I want to be comforted BEFORE he tries to "solve" whatever has made me upset.
3.) I tend to thrive on collaboration and encouragement, while he seems to thrive on competition and adversity.
4.) In the beginning, especially, it really helped to write long letters (e-mails) to each other along with our frequent dates, weekend visits, etc... I felt that this really helped us open up to one another on a deeper level. It especially helped me to see the "softer side" of him, because that wasn't so readily apparent yet in person.
5.) We've come to realize that we tend to arrive at the same conclusions via different means. I feel to my answer. He thinks to his.
6.) Be mindful of being correct at the cost of being kind.

Edit: 7.) Also when I am upset I want to cuddle and cry it out. When he's upset he wants to talk and walk it out (literally). When we're both upset this creates a conundrum of me wanting physical closeness and him wanting space and distance to think. We generally try to do a mix of both in such a case.

Edit: I also wanted to say that we are both "instinctual" types on the Enneagram. So, in a sense, I use feeling to rationalize instinct, while he uses thought to rationalize instinct.

The good? We truly are companion personalities... who also are in love. We enjoy just being with each other. We make great roommates. We instinctively know when to allow the other space. We are both best friends and lovers. I honestly could not ask for more.

Hope this helps. Good luck! =)

 

[Nixie]

[MENTION=5003]el guapo[/MENTION]

Damn, you had to come out swinging anyway. I suppose you could just leave the forum and be content in your assessment that you had rightious indignation and logic on your side---I'm just an "asshole--sure..." mentality.

In all honesty, the cavalier attitude you express toward long standing members is distasteful to me. The people that you are berating have always taken an interest in being forthright and helpful on the more serious threads.

Your hostility is surprising and denotes a lack of both self-control and insecurity to me. I would suggest that if you want to keep on having miscommunication trigger unnecessary conflict that you continue behaving as you have.

Otherwise, learn to play nice with the other children.