Is deception inherently bad?

IndigoSensor said:
It's cool, don't worry about it. It is often for the greater good, or to help them out on a personal level. I can't pull out an example at the moment. The best way I could explain it, would be trying to aid someone into coming to a relisation that would take far too long for it to naturally happen. Or, to mediate social troubles happening between people that are totally unnesscerry and will only worsen the situation.
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How could deceiving somebody help them to arrive at a realization more naturally than learning for themselves? Can you give an example?

How can you mediate on a problem concerning two people by using deception and witholding information?
How can the truth can be totally unnecessary in interpersonal relations?
In what instance?

Personally, I am not afraid of constructive conflict, facing things and accepting responsibility. I expect others to do the same, especially if I am friends with them. People who have hurt one another in some way can't overcome it with deception. It skews the relationship, it makes it all built on deception for the sake of a happy facade. Where's the depth and power in friendship like that?

But if the relationship between the people is not a friendship, more professional or acquaintance it still seems important to be forthright. I'm of the mind that lying only provides a bandaid solution to a gangrene limb.
 
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Pristinegirl said:
If you believe it and live it then it is rather a Perception! though it may look like a Deception to someone else.
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Aren't all deceptions really just perceptions?

Could you explain what you mean? how it might be a coping mechanism?
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A means to protect your own feelings or the feelings of others from the harshness of reality. Do you disagree?
 
Soulful said:
Is anything inherently bad?
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I don't know. I can think of many things that seem inherently good, such as a warm meal, a good night sleep, and an orgasm with the love of your life. Wouldn't that mean there are things which are inherently bad within the human condition as well?
 
Sithious said:
When I look at your avatar I always think of Britain, you self centered snob.

I am certain you were born in the wrong country, now get your ass in gear and move to a proper country, i.e England.
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Cambridge is pretty darn tempting, but on the whole I prefer Australia.

Satya said:
I can think of many things that seem inherently good, such as a warm meal, a good night sleep, and an orgasm with the love of your life.
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You mean gluttony, sloth, and lust?

See, it's all about perspective.
 
Satya said:
So morality and deception are relative?
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Well, when Christ said that some of those standing there with him would not taste death until after the Second Coming, he was just fibbing, not really being deceptive ... and because he was God, he couldn't possibly have been sinning anyway. So yes, it's all relative to divine awesomeness.
 
How can it be relative? The truth is the truth. Events happen with consequences undeniable.

Just because you see it a certain way doesn't mean it didn't happen.
So you got drunk and ran the baby over in the driveway. Whether you meant it or not, it happened. If you blame it on the neighbor when your wife comes home, it doesn't change the fact that you did it.
 
Satya said:
Aren't all deceptions really just perceptions?
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Basically yes, only that the term deception connotes a meaning of the perception being wrong.

A means to protect your own feelings or the feelings of others from the harshness of reality. Do you disagree?
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Hmm I'm not sure, coping mechanisms serve to protect us from what is 'really' out there so then arent perceptions included as well as they are formed according to the way one feels about things..
 
acd said:
How can it be relative? The truth is the truth. Events happen with consequences undeniable.

Just because you see it a certain way doesn't mean it didn't happen.
So you got drunk and ran the baby over in the driveway. Whether you meant it or not, it happened. If you blame it on the neighbor when your wife comes home, it doesn't change the fact that you did it.
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The point is that the only way we understand events is through our interpretations of them. It's inescapable that you have to see events through a pre-defined framework of your mind. You come into each situation with a set of prejudices, some as basic as "I'm predisposed to believe that objects fall to the Earth" and others more complex.

So if you see something flying about, do you say, "Well, the truth is, gravity just stopped happening." No, you most likely interpret the event with your prejudice in mind and go, "Well, something that this object is doing is causing it to overcome the force of gravity."

So, interpretations are all relative to the observer.


Once this is established, it is not hard to arrive at a position affirming that deception has nothing (innately) to do with morality. All "deception" is is manipulation of the interpretation of events. You just manipulate the way people understand what happened.

Now, some interpretations are more useful then others for performing certain tasks, but is any interpretation innately "bad," "incorrect," or "immoral?"
 
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acd said:
How could deceiving somebody help them to arrive at a realization more naturally than learning for themselves? Can you give an example?

How can you mediate on a problem concerning two people by using deception and witholding information?
How can the truth can be totally unnecessary in interpersonal relations?
In what instance?

Personally, I am not afraid of constructive conflict, facing things and accepting responsibility. I expect others to do the same, especially if I am friends with them. People who have hurt one another in some way can't overcome it with deception. It skews the relationship, it makes it all built on deception for the sake of a happy facade. Where's the depth and power in friendship like that?

But if the relationship between the people is not a friendship, more professional or acquaintance it still seems important to be forthright. I'm of the mind that lying only provides a bandaid solution to a gangrene limb.
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It's rather hard for me to explain and quantify. Sometimes there are just situations where hiding things, or morphing them, will calm a person down, and rethink things. Later, I can reveal what I have hid, and they often will understand why I have. It is more to help keep the peace and have everyone agree and be happy. It may be deception, but I am not dishonest at all.
 
Deception is purposefully altering or skewing a perception for the benefit of the self, if you think about it in terms of perception. Whether or not that's "bad" depends on the intention and the outcome.
 
Satya said:
Is deception inherently bad?
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No. No-thing has any inherent quality. Quality, or value, only arises through the relationship or context born of perception and later, judgement.


cheers,
Ian
 
TheLastMohican said:
Well, when Christ said that some of those standing there with him would not taste death until after the Second Coming, he was just fibbing, not really being deceptive ... and because he was God, he couldn't possibly have been sinning anyway. So yes, it's all relative to divine awesomeness.
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can i get that chp, vrs, and book? If it's the one I'm thinking of you've misinterpreted it. (John is the one I'm thinking of)
 
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