Is the Left Eating Itself?

My question is wasn't Barack an INFJ also? Perhaps we can ask him? If rumors are true, he'll be a candidate for VP in 2020 with Joe leaning in as President...but then again we know about Rumor.
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https://www.quora.com/After-a-US-Pr...after-four-to-eight-years-being-out-of-office
 
kinglear said:
can someone explain to me what it is that the left wants?

maybe you could explain what the right wants as well?
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The left wants the system to be fair, the right wants the system to be functional.

Think of them as the two parents of the nation, it takes cooperation between them to nurture the nation and help it grow.
 
Isabella said:
Anyone able to explain....

I've watched a few videos where left/right are trying to have a dialogue (what appears to be a civil discourse) and are then brutally interrupted by megaphones, drums, cowbells (I don't know) and all sorts! I like to think I have the patience to hear people out but it's excruciatingly painful to hear anything because of all the racket - I just don't get it! Why?

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Congratulations! You have just observed the inverse correlation between the volume of delivering a message and the contents of said message. :tiphat:

Why? Because it works.

If you have nothing substantial to say, just loudmouth over everyone. You will draw people's attention, so the public will be inclined to listen to you, and at the same time you make sure the other party doesn't get to make their (valid) points cause no one can hear them. In addition, if you're lucky, your opponent gets upset which diminishes his ability to engage in rational arguments afterwards.

Success guaranteed. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately.
 
@Lady Jolanda Thank you and unfortunate indeed!

Lady Jolanda said:
If you have nothing substantial to say, just loudmouth over everyone. You will draw people's attention, so the public will be inclined to listen to you, and at the same time you make sure the other party doesn't get to make their (valid) points cause no one can hear them. In addition, if you're lucky, your opponent gets upset which diminishes his ability to engage in rational arguments afterwards.

Success guaranteed. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately.
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I'm not sure - NO, I definitely don't like the idea of other people regulating what I decide to hear or not - I'd like to be able to make that decision myself. :unhappy:

Those drums are still piercing my poor my ears.
 
Reason said:
The left wants the system to be fair, the right wants the system to be functional.

Think of them as the two parents of the nation, it takes cooperation between them to nurture the nation and help it grow.[/QUOTE]

Hey titbit, not sure I agree with the fair and functional piece of your statement but I do like what you wrote about cooperation and nurturing - sounds productive.
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Isabella said:
@Lady Jolanda Thank you and unfortunate indeed!



I'm not sure - NO, I definitely don't like the idea of other people regulating what I decide to hear or not - I'd like to be able to make that decision myself. :unhappy:

Those drums are still piercing my poor my ears.
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We're in agreement. I don't like it either. :unhappy:
 
@Isabella the fact that has been lost in American politics is that our political opponents, in almost every case want to make thier country as good as it can be. Whether or not they know enough to deliver that is a separate issue. The point is that political discourse has always been one of compromise in a Democracy.

For all thier faults I'm not going to treat conservatives like monsters when they're trying to help like I am. Instead I want to listen, and negotiate. The current status of American politics is disgusting.

If the soul of this nation becomes totally poisoned then the cause of death must read:
America, killed by hyperpartisanship
 
Reason said:
The left wants the system to be fair, the right wants the system to be functional.

Think of them as the two parents of the nation, it takes cooperation between them to nurture the nation and help it grow.
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Ok but what if one parent cuts the other parent out of the picture?

would that leave the country without what it needs to nurture it?

also what would be 'fair' to the left?

if the left could wave a magic wand and make anything happen what would it make happen?
 
kinglear said:
Ok but what if one parent cuts the other parent out of the picture?
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Totalitarianism reigns
kinglear said:
would that leave the country without what it needs to nurture it?
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That is certain
kinglear said:
also what would be 'fair' to the left?
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Depends on the issue at hand, generally it's an empathetic drive to help the disenfranchised I would say
kinglear said:
if the left could wave a magic wand and make anything happen what would it make happen?
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Make certain that conflict and unfairness dissapear completely? Something like that I would guess
 
Reason said:
Depends on the issue at hand, generally it's an empathetic drive to help the disenfranchised I would say
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ok but how do you best help the disenfranchised?

Reason said:
Make certain that conflict and unfairness dissapear completely? Something like that I would guess
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just playing devils advocate here but i haven't seen left wing governments in the west stop any wars. In fact i've seen them fight quite a few

how would they make unfairness dissapear?

what sorts of things are unfair?
 
kinglear said:
ok but how do you best help the disenfranchised?



just playing devils advocate here but i haven't seen left wing governments in the west stop any wars. In fact i've seen them fight quite a few

how would they make unfairness dissapear?

what sorts of things are unfair?
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I'm trying to describe in general terms the hallmarks of leftists throughout history. I'm attempting to describe thier goals/motivations not thier methodology or the effectiveness of it.
 
Reason said:
I'm trying to describe in general terms the hallmarks of leftists throughout history. I'm attempting to describe thier goals/motivations not thier methodology or the effectiveness of it.
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well i think you can judge a tree by its fruit

so what behaviours have leftists shown when they have got into power throughout history?
 
kinglear said:
so what behaviours have leftists shown when they have got into power throughout history?
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Well you could point to voting rights expansion in America at the turn of the 20th century, Social and educational reform in Victorian England, or on the less reasonable end of the spectrum The Soviet revolution and Stalinist purges, Pol Pot's massacres in Cambodia, Mao's in China and so on
 
Reason said:
@Isabella the fact that has been lost in American politics is that our political opponents, in almost every case want to make thier country as good as it can be. Whether or not they know enough to deliver that is a separate issue. The point is that political discourse has always been one of compromise in a Democracy.

For all thier faults I'm not going to treat conservatives like monsters when they're trying to help like I am. Instead I want to listen, and negotiate. The current status of American politics is disgusting.

If the soul of this nation becomes totally poisoned then the cause of death must read:
America, killed by hyperpartisanship
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I think I'm capturing and hearing the essence of what you're relaying here. Sounds thoughtful and considerate....

"I want to listen and negotiate" - Great! On personal observation (from debates that I've watched) there is a distinct absence of this going on between right/left. So much hostility that prevents dialogue from taking place....

"The current status of American politics is disgusting." - Agree! How did we (I'm not American but I do love the US) get to this place? When did this disgust come to the surface?

"America" - ????

Not expecting you to respond (unless you want to of course)...I tend to use ? as a way of prompting myself to think about these things further......and pondering about the answer(s).
 
Is it fair to group modern western democratic leftist politics with revolutions against generational autocratic governments?
 
Reason said:
Well you could point to voting rights expansion in America at the turn of the 20th century, Social and educational reform in Victorian England, or on the less reasonable end of the spectrum The Soviet revolution and Stalinist purges, Pol Pot's massacres in Cambodia, Mao's in China and so on
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ok so what are the main talking points of the left in america today?

what are they most vocal about?

trump has been brought up in this thread so what are their objections to trump?
 
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