Las Vegas Concert Mass Shooting

Skarekrow said:
BTW - This is supposed to be a “well regulated militia”...I would not call the state of gun ownership in the US “well regulated” one fraction.
I understand people don’t want their names listed as gun owners on some “list”, but I think we have demonstrated fairly well that we don’t know how to play by the rules, not that there are many rules - especially in Nevada.
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I can't disagree. Here in NY there are tough rules for concealed carry of a handgun. For long guns, the rules are sketchy at best. Back in, (I think 2013), Gov. Cumo instated the new amunition rule...all that did was piss a lot of people off and make amunition sales go underground. Bootleg amo here has a mere markup of 30% on legal. We are still allowed to reload spent shells for personal use. There are a few that collect spent shells, and reload them with god only knows what, (had a fella show me one he loaded with dimes!)

When the law went into effect, the shelves were bare. Law enforcement had a tough time getting supplies because civillians had bought them all out. This to me hit the 'wrong' population of gun owners. The street sales and tent sales of firearms skyrocketed. Here folks still sell guns via a newspaper ad!

I'm not ashamed to add mine to a 'list' if it meant that the regulation would stave off or suspend illegal gun sale & ownership, however, I don't see that happening. If anything the folks will bury them away like many have for years...the guns just disappear.

I find no plausable use for armor piercing bullets. My brother is law enforcement. He has some terrible stories about guns in the wrong hands. It's just a civil mess that needs adressing, however, governement chastising folks that know how to use a gun and respect what its intended for isn't going to clear the guns off the street. And, then we have the home break in factor. Crooks break into a home, steal registered guns and shoot up a 7-11 with them, is the registered owner going to be liable?

Guns belong in a gun safe. Period. If a person can not afford to lock up their weapons out of harms way, they shouldn't be allowed to purchase the gun. I sew alot, there is a free pattern lurking around for a purse that has a center zip pocket to hold a handgun. All one has to do is unzip it 2-3 inches and finger is in the trigger and she's blowing out her handbag on some perceived dirtbag agressor. It's uncanny the ease of use some of these concealed weapons carriers have. They want to make the law into open carry now. My thought is are we going backwards into the wildwest era where that was the law...kill or be killed?

It boggles the mind.

Bottom line is, it all begins and ends with intent. If we teach our young people to be courageous and fearless without guns perhaps it will take a turn for the better. After all, children learn what they live, and much of the time it is fear, and someone elses fear to boot!

Love to you too @Skarekrow . This thread was a great idea. Perhaps if we can get many talking from all sides of the issue here, we can get the same word out into the streets and perhaps envoke a change in the positive direction. :)
 
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Sandie33 said:
I can't disagree. Here in NY there are tough rules for concealed carry of a handgun. For long guns, the rules are sketchy at best. Back in, (I think 2013), Gov. Cumo instated the new amunition rule...all that did was piss a lot of people off and make amunition sales go underground. Bootleg amo here has a mere markup of 30% on legal. We are still allowed to reload spent shells for personal use. There are a few that collect spent shells, and reload them with god only knows what, (had a fella show me one he loaded with dimes!)

When the law went into effect, the shelves were bare. Law enforcement had a tough time getting supplies because civillians had bought them all out. This to me hit the 'wrong' population of gun owners. The street sales and tent sales of firearms skyrocketed. Here folks still sell guns via a newspaper ad!

I'm not ashamed to add mine to a 'list' if it meant that the regulation would stave off or suspend illegal gun sale & ownership, however, I don't see that happening. If anything the folks will bury them away like many have for years...the guns just disappear.

I find no plausable use for armor piercing bullets. My brother is law enforcement. He has some terrible stories about guns in the wrong hands. It's just a civil mess that needs adressing, however, governement chastising folks that know how to use a gun and respect what its intended for isn't going to clear the guns off the street. And, then we have the home break in factor. Crooks break into a home, steal registered guns and shoot up a 7-11 with them, is the registered owner going to be liable?

Guns belong in a gun safe. Period. If a person can not afford to lock up their weapons out of harms way, they shouldn't be allowed to purchase the gun. I sew alot, there is a free pattern lurking around for a purse that has a center zip pocket to hold a handgun. All one has to do is unzip it 2-3 inches and finger is in the trigger and she's blowing out her handbag on some perceived dirtbag agressor. It's uncanny the ease of use some of these concealed weapons carriers have. They want to make the law into open carry now. My thought is are we going backwards into the wildwest era where that was the law...kill or be killed?

It boggles the mind.

Bottom line is, it all begins and ends with intent. If we teach our young people to be courageous and fearless without guns perhaps it will take a turn for the better. After all, children learn what they live, and much of the time it is fear, and someone elses fear to boot!

Love to you too @Skarekrow . This thread was a great idea. Perhaps if we can get many talking from all sides of the issue here, we can get the same word out into the streets and perhaps envoke a change in the positive direction. :)
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I agree with all you wrote!
I find it particularly horrific that we have 23 toddler shootings so far this year - that is insanity.
I certainly hope CPS intervenes on behalf of the rest of the children...sad.

So now they are saying that on some of the guns he used what are called “bump stocks” which allows a person to pull the trigger much faster than the normal human could.
It uses the gun recoil and a spring to basically create a “legal” machine gun.
A couple hundred bucks online....no reason to have this but to kill people.
It’s not necessary to have bump stocks for hunting....unless you are legally blind, then god save us all.
Although, some machine guns are for sale also - especially in NV.
Then there are gun ranges where you can go and shoot fully auto machine guns - legally.
I don’t have an issue with that....I have an issue with people owning machine guns and bump stocks, armor piercing rounds of an endless amount.
I also agree that a gun safe or a trigger lock at the VERY least should be required in homes with children.
Even homes without children, like you said, guns are stolen to commit crimes - but no, you are not held responsible for the acts carried out by someone with your stolen gun anymore than you would be if someone robbed a bank after stealing your car as the getaway vehicle.

It is very sad that this is the state of affairs in our world and nation today.
And there doesn’t seem to be any very good solutions that will not cause the conservatives to crap their pants.
Much love!
 
This is especially NOT helpful in any manner other than to sow more seeds of discontent and hate.
Exactly what we need right now...*eye roll*

'Fox & Friends' Guest Says CNN Partly To Blame For Las Vegas Shooting

faf8b1e655f36f6917d41049751f0f06


Full Story - https://www.yahoo.com/news/apos-fox-friends-apos-guest-133314960.html​
 
The crazy thing is how people will defend the right to own an arsenal-- armor piercing bullets and automatics etc etc because its their right and they claim they need it to defend against tyranny.. But then the same people disparage protest and (a lot of them from conversations I've had) support laws that would allow you to run down protestors in the road.

And you don't need armor piercing bullets for home protection. You don't need a machine gun for home protection. This isn't The Purge. America has a bizarre gun fetish. More people would rather you have the right to own an arsenal even if it means risking a mass shooting-- yet healthcare is a privilege. Our priorities are screwed.
 
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acd said:
The crazy thing is how people will defend the right to own an arsenal-- armor piercing bullets and automatics etc etc because they claim they need it in the event of a tyrannical government... But then the same people disparage protest and (alot of them from conversations I've had) support laws that would allow you to run down protestors in the road. You don't need armor piercing bullets for home protection. You don't need a machine gun for home protection. This isn't The Purge. America has a bizarre gun fetish. More people would rather you have the right to own an arsenal even if it means risking a mass shooting-- yet healthcare is a privilege and not a right. Our priorities are screwed.
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Yes...especially in NV where this happened.
You don’t need a permit to open carry a gun or shotgun AT ALL.
You do need one for concealed carry.
The voters passed a law last year for stricter background checks - which the Attorney General of NV refused to implement saying it infringed on peoples’ rights.
I can certainly hope that he reconsider his actions now, or that the public forces him to pass laws that were voted for by the people who live there.
Fucking stupid.
It’s all so fucking stupid.
Sarah Huckabee Sanders says - This is not the time to talk about gun control.
When is the right time then bitch?
The can keeps getting kicked down the road.


“...one member of the band went even further, posting a lengthy message on Twitter about his personal response to the attack.
After spending the night fearing for his life, Caleb Keeter, the group’s lead guitarist, spoke up about gun control.

“I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life.
Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was."

"We actually have members of our crew with [Concealed Handgun Licenses], and legal firearms on the bus,” Keeter wrote.
“They were useless.”

He continued:

We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us.
A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power.

Enough is enough.

Writing my parents and the love of my life a goodbye last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand.

These rounds were just powerful enough that my crew guys just standing in close proximity of a victim shot by this f—ing coward received shrapnel wounds.

We need gun control RIGHT. NOW.

My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it.
We are unbelievably fortunate to not be among the number of victims killed or seriously wounded by this maniac.
 
Skarekrow said:
So now they are saying that on some of the guns he used what are called “bump stocks”
Click to expand...

You don't really need any sort of modification for it, but it does make it easier.
As I was saying before, if somebody really wants to do something like this, it's a lot easier than people would like to think about/admit.
Criminals don't obey laws. If they want to do something, they will find a way. Luckily most criminals aren't very calculating or intelligent.
This pos set up tripods, had a way of knocking out a huge thick window, got a room at optimal height, had a boatload of money. Not an average criminal.

 
In my opinion, gun regulation will not stop these outbreaks. There is a constitutional barrier to the type of gun control that would be necessary. But there is no constitutional barrier on providing quality and affordable mental health care to all.
 
Well, I don't know what to say really.

Another madman gunning down innocent lives who were just out having a good time and minding their own business.

Scary to think he could assemble such an arsenal to destroy multiple lives.

When Dunblane happened in Scotland back in 1996 after Thomas Hamilton gunned down 16 children plus their teachers during a Gym class, the public was more or less on the same page in terms of wanting guns banned.

For America, it seems like a totally different situation as in Scotland there was no '' gun culture '' people here can sleep in their homes with their front doors unlocked.

In Scotland, you can still own a Rifle and Shotgun but it cannot be used for defense. They are classed as tools in this country and you need a very specific reason for owning one.

Who knows what the solution is, for America, it is a many-headed hydra with many different roots in different areas of the culture so there is no easy way of going about it, even if the answer is obvious.

The death toll is getting very difficult to look at.

It's a crying shame when people go out for a good time only to end up dead or losing a loved one.
 
Wyote said:
You don't really need any sort of modification for it, but it does make it easier.
As I was saying before, if somebody really wants to do something like this, it's a lot easier than people would like to think about/admit.
Criminals don't obey laws. If they want to do something, they will find a way. Luckily most criminals aren't very calculating or intelligent.
This pos set up tripods, had a way of knocking out a huge thick window, got a room at optimal height, had a boatload of money. Not an average criminal.

Click to expand...
Yes...I’m sure the “Poor Man’s James Bond” PDF is still online everywhere....it’s full of all kinds of deadly mayhem....including how to make a semi auto into a fully auto. Anyhow...yes, you can bump shoot any gun that recoils, though not with much accuracy....these devices to allow you to accurately fire while bump firing it should wholly be illegal across the nation...end of story.

Chickensoup said:
https://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/it...always_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/
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I agree with the conclusions of the article, but also think that @Stu have a point about how guns are viewed here in the US.
It’s a bizarre cultural fetish almost.

Stu said:
In my opinion, gun regulation will not stop these outbreaks. There is a constitutional barrier to the type of gun control that would be necessary. But there is no constitutional barrier on providing quality and affordable mental health care to all.
Click to expand...

Maybe one day, we will have “healthcare” with “mental health" that will not be an oxymoron every time someone says it here in the US.

Wonky Oracle said:
Well, I don't know what to say really.

Another madman gunning down innocent lives who were just out having a good time and minding their own business.

Scary to think he could assemble such an arsenal to destroy multiple lives.

When Dunblane happened in Scotland back in 1996 after Thomas Hamilton gunned down 16 children plus their teachers during a Gym class, the public was more or less on the same page in terms of wanting guns banned.

For America, it seems like a totally different situation as in Scotland there was no '' gun culture '' people here can sleep in their homes with their front doors unlocked.

In Scotland, you can still own a Rifle and Shotgun but it cannot be used for defense. They are classed as tools in this country and you need a very specific reason for owning one.

Who knows what the solution is, for America, it is a many-headed hydra with many different roots in different areas of the culture so there is no easy way of going about it, even if the answer is obvious.

The death toll is getting very difficult to look at.

It's a crying shame when people go out for a good time only to end up dead or losing a loved one.
Click to expand...

I agree with all you wrote too.
There seems to be no good solution....especially when we can’t even get out leaders to acknowledge that a problem exists.
They all suckle on the teat of the NRA and fear their repercussions should they go against what they deem to be acceptable.
Kind of how a few years back the Republicans voted successfully to make any Federal studies of gun violence or gun deaths illegal.
So...the “swamp” does need to be drained, first and foremost - the people that Trump ends up appointing to head up cabinet positions.
How many have quit, resigned, or been fired so far?
Not to mention the incredible number of vacant jobs within the DOJ and WH itself because no one has appointed anyone.
Too busy tweeting about the NFL and how Puerto Rico is perfectly fine, and we are doing a fantastic job of helping them...uh-huh. ;)


Gun violence in America, explained in 17 maps and charts
In the developed world, these levels of gun violence are a uniquely American problem.
Here’s why.

Too many pictures and graphs to show, but highly enlightening and well worth reading!
Full story - https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

gun_ownership_states.png



Hmmmmm....must just be a coincidence!!



​
 
I’ve been thinking about the arguments in the article and it now seems to me to be not so different than blaming Muslims for Islam-related terrorist attacks.

The point in the article about attacking “socially approved” targets is what Fox is latching onto, in blaming CNN for the shooting. But just like their viewers, there is a lack of understanding that because it is how they themselves operate, that they are in the wrong. In other words, they target certain groups/individuals, encourage each other to attack people in that group, and this is part of the problem.

It distracts from the crime itself. It distracts from the person/people committing the crime. Maybe making a crime bigger than what it is - the murder of over fifty people and the injuring of hundreds, is also a crime.
 
Pat Robertson on the ‘700 Club’ says that - the shooting was caused by a lack of respect for the President, lack of respect for authority in general.
That guy should fucking retire.
What an asshat.

If anyone is going to “Hell”....
 
Someone please explain to me what time is a good time for our Congress and country to have a serious discussion on gun control?
Because apparently, it’s never a good time according to the GOP.

Sadly, it doesn’t seem to take much to buy representation for the NRA in certain states.
The NRA should not be dictating US law.
The people of this country should hold a national special vote on what they wish to do because Congress is going to do nothing once again - restrictions, assault rifles and bump stocks?
There is a very nice interactive map in this article -

Has your U.S. Congress person received donations from the NRA?
Since 1998, the National Rifle Association has donated $3,533,294 to current members of Congress.
Explore below to see how much money has been donated to members of Congress in your state.

Full story and map - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/nra-donations/​
 
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