Learning from Failed Friendships/Relationships

[Sriracha]

I just replied to a blog and thought it would be a good topic to bring up on the forum. We learn from our mistakes and our failures. I wonder just how common our failures with friends are (as an INFJ). Post your experience and advice you may have.



At 37 years old, I believe I have finally found the key to successful friendships (as an INFJ.) I do have several friends, about 5 whom I can tell ANYTHING and about 5 more because of mutual respect and history (who may fail in time due to lack of depth.) I do have several acquaintences as well.

All of my failed friendships have one thing in common ... high maintenance. If I was constantly having to talk or keep up with them, it was a drain on my energy...but I did it anyway (b/c some types need that constant affirmation.) Specifically, I had one very very close friend. We saw each other nearly twice a week and would speak by phone a couple times a week as well. We got along very well, and I enjoyed my time with her for three years. Then all of a sudden, she has found a new BFF. SUCH IS THE STORY OF MY LIFE. You open up your heart and soul to someone ... only for them to move on. I was devistated. The feeling I had of rejection was very painful. So I cut her off entirely and she never understood why. She was ok with having MANY friends and was very extroverted. I realize it is b/c I needed to remove myself in order to avoid the conflict and pain. Closure? RIIIIGGGHT. I don't think there is such thing for our type.

It has been four years and I still think of her, not often. My disconnect has evolved from being bitter to reflection. Still, I cannot let go and probably never will. I feel like everytime I make myself that vulnerable in a relationship ... that person gets a piece of my soul which I can never get back.

So what did I learn through this friendship (and a few other failed ones that preceeded it?)

I have learned, and my closest friends (some being INFJs) can all agree that our most successful friendships are ones that are not high maintenance. We respect each others space and are not on top of each other. I may go weeks without talking to any of them, but when I call ... we pick up where we last left off (with no question at all.) There is never any problem with that "space" ... never. And we would be there for each other in a heartbeat if there was a problem.

I do have to say that a few of these friendships in the beginning took some time to procure, especially the friendships with the INFJs. Both being a bit paranoid and some what guarded, our meetings at first were very awkward. I met my best friend through an internet forum and we found we had too many things in common. Almost like living in a parallel world. So we met, and it was VERY awkward ... honestly it may never have worked out b/c of the awkwardness feeling, but we stuck to it and met again and again. Our friendship had blossomed and it is for life.

Now reflecting on my other close friendships, they are all similar ... eerily like that parallel world (especially with the INFJ, we tend to have the same problems). I do have other MB type friendships ... but they too have that same respect of space and time.

Please take this advice, it could save you a lot of heartache. Now please share your experience.

 

[not sure]

In my experience friendships fail because of a lack of respect for people's emotions. There is a belief in western society that words do not hurt. That we can say anything and that we can speak thoughtlessly; that it is more important to relieve our desire to talk to then to speak with measure. We pepper our speech with cruel words and then expect love in return. Our pride is so great that when others express their pain instead of showing compassion we put the blame of misinterpretation entirely on their heads and reject the idea of shouldering any responsibility. Blocking, denying, diminishing and so on. Oh it's just a joke. Oh you take this too seriously. Oh you are too sensitive and emotional. All these are things we say in order to avoid admitting that we are wrong. It is better to bring the other to their knees than to admit your own failure because in Western Society no matter what accomplishments you have it comes down to being either a winner or a loser. Therefore, even in our friendships the battle for supremacy continues. We feign concern for the other but we hide little attacks in our sentences. "What a lovely colour that is on you. It makes you look so thin." The hidden message is that you are fat. "Someone has to knock it into your head that..." has the hidden message that you are so dumb that knowledge has to be forced into your brain. So it goes the gradual erosion of a relationship. People get hit by the tiny barbs that they throw at each other and what started out as mutual enjoyment slowly turns to a battlefield and then we wonder what went wrong.

The lesson I've learned from this is twofold. The first is to be very careful of the words I utter. To recognize that even with the greatest effort I will get it wrong. I must acknowledge the other's pain and try to express exactly what I mean without all the damaging subtext. The second is that a friendship that starts on the wrong foot will never be corrected. Seek friendship elsewhere.

A comment on the respect of space and time. I take it that space here refers to psychological space. In my experience often people who complain of not having their space and time respected are often guilty of doing the same to the other. People have a need for equality. If they detect that they have been diminished they will act to restore their status. It is fundamental to the healthy operation of their psyche. Therefore, instead of demanding so much of what one wants consider the other. Often their intentions are good but our selfishness squanders their goodwill. Very rarely have I met anyone who had enough valour to admit this.

 

[mochi]

Great topic. I am actually really glad you posted this. I'm a bit similar, I have five really close friends. I haven't lost a good friend that was very close to me, but I am fearing it happening with me and one friend, who is doing the same thing your friend did. I am just trying to be nice to her, talk to her more, but she's still avoiding me and ignoring me. I think it relates a lot to what kiu said, where some friend tend to challenge or make comments with some hidden meaning. I must admit, it's a little hard because like you sriracha, I am very hurt by this. At the same time I am trying to understand and hoping she'll come around. I think I know why she's acting like this. At the same time, it's been more than two months with no change, and I'm fearful of invoking the so-called "INFJ doorslam," which I've never done on anyone before unless they leave me for good first. Sigh.

From my experience, my advice for friendships is that if you have a friend who is willing to work on the friendship, that friend is worth keeping. For example, I know my own faults lie in my shyness, introversion, and I had to work on that in order to make my friends feel valued. And sometimes, you may have to adjust your own habits as well, but to what point is where the line between friendship and drain comes to play. For example, I have a friend that gossips a lot. So, adjusting myself to not say anything personal solved that problem quite easily. But for other friends, who try to put you down, I think there's only so much you can adjust yourself before you realize that person really isn't a friend.

I agree with the high maintenance statement you posted. If that person just wants appraisal from you, but doesn't know how to be a friend back, then that person isn't such a good friend either. It's hard because I think a lot of INFJs are taken advantage of lot like this in friendships.

Sorry this turned into more of a ramble, my thoughts were a little disorganized as I wrote this...^^

 

[Sriracha]

So great. Hrmph. I was talking today to a mutual friend of this old friend named "Sunny". (I mentioned in the OP). The topic of how our friendship ended came up b/c Sunny had lost a couple of very close friends, what she did to me ... was done to her. She finally had some idea of what it felt like. I told XYZ friend that Sunny rejected me twice. The first time for such a close friend is forgivable, but after the second ... I'm done. So that means, cutting out the bullshit. XYZ mentioned that Sunny was very hurt that I did such a thing back then and I told XYZ, "you know, it would not have mattered if we talked b/c the outcome would not have changed. It is what it is, I just didn't want to waste my time anymore and wallow in my own self pity. I grieved the death of our friendship and for what ever reason I JUST CANNOT GET OVER IT." I said, "you know most people would think such a thing may be psycho, that's why I've just kept it to myself. I don't understand why I feel this way."

So the conversation ended with a ... "I would like for you to find out if Sunny is adversarial to being acquaintences. I feel like I have to avoid her otherwise, and we have too many mutual friends which makes for awkward encounters." Yes, XYZ will do this b/c my attempts to talk to Sunny in the past had failed. (I need to mention that Sunny and I will be at XYZ's son's bday party next weekend.) I know if she approaches me there ... I will break down crying like a baby from being overwhelmed with emotion (WHICH I HATE!!!!).

My intention is to not become close knit, but to see if contact again would heal. At any rate, I'll keep you posted. I honestly feel indifferent about it (at the moment, tomorrow I may think OH SHIT WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!).

 

[randomsomeone]

I have not had too many "failed" friendships, but many (even very close friendships) that simply evaporated because of changing circumstances in life. I find, in retrospect, that I have come to not rely on friendships at all. I have friends/acquaintences sure, but I expect very, very little and enjoy them simply for what they are. This may sound frightfully dismal, but I think I am in a more free state now...free to care, and listen, and engage without expecting anything.

In the interest of full disclosure, I must also admit that in this regard the spiritual life has made quite a difference for me. I feel enfolded by ever-present love, very deep, profound, and unconditional. This, too, I feel, liberates one and fills a certain inner void, centering us in the midst of life's ever-present turmoils, including those that may originate within relationships.

 

[Nitesteamer]

Your insight into patiently pushing thru the initial awkwardness of getting to know an infj was interesting to me. I recently had a similar experience with a probable inxx. The initial contacts were very short, which took off some of the pressure. Some of the contacts were a little awkward, but after awhile we both understood that it's not the end of the world, and that there was a mutual interest that far outweighed any imperfect moments.

 

[Flavus Aquila]

My two closest male friendships failed because of high expectations.

My ENFP friend and I were the best buddies through school and even through much of university. We did so much crazy stuff together - from learning how to work on cars, experimenting with photography, street-racing (I can't believe I went through that phase), watching movies, etc. We would discuss just about every subject under the sun: girls, philosophy, religion, physics, body-building etc. We never really had a falling out - but there came a point when he decided to commit himself to an undertaking I couldn't back him up on. He wanted not only my moral support, but also some logistic support. He knew I couldn't back him up - and moreover, he knew that even if I could, I wouldn't want to help him - not on that project. Nevertheless, he went through with it - and sent me details of what he needed me to do. I am guessing he was expecting me to jettison my obligations and opinions and "come to the party." I almost did, but at the time he needed me, the team I was with was posted on a week long task. I tried to get messages to him - but I never saw, or heard from him again. That was almost 10 years ago. I don't even know if he's alive, or dead. For all I know, he could be living down the street from me, with a family. *sigh*

My other very good friend was an INTJ - he was just very high maintenance. He and I really connected on an intellectual level - but socially, he had some very formal expectations of how friends should keep in contact. We were the closest, while we worked in the same area -but I gradually was spending more and more time interstate, or overseas. I would literally forget to write/call for weeks and even months on end. He took offense at this - and just wasn't willing to have a friendship that lacked regular communication. Right now, we are just good work colleagues - we work in completely separate areas, but we'll occasionally talk on the phone, or meet - but he is very definitely being affable, but not friendly.

 

[Sensiko]

I know if she approaches me there ... I will break down crying like a baby from being overwhelmed with emotion (WHICH I HATE!!!!).

OMG, I do the exact same thing!!! Done that ever since I can remember, thank God it doesn't happen often. I can see it coming a mile away though and I HATE THAT ABOUT MYSELF!!! Look up, it helps me to stop but it's still pretty damn obvious !

 

[Radiantshadow]

Though still very young, I've learned that I must take care of myself before being able to help someone else, or even be a truly good friend/companion (learned after much heartache and struggle).
Perseverance, too. Too often my relationships with others have failed because both sides weren't all there for each other, the effort pendulum swung willy-nilly.
Still learning to accept myself as I am, so I may do and expect the same from others - while all that glitters isn't gold, neither is it coal.

 

[Sriracha]

Ok, that birthday party I previously mentioned was yesterday.

It seemed the whole event was a Ghosts of Ex-Friends Past. I wasn't necessarily "friends" with all these women in the past, we were part of a playgroup for our young kids ... more "friends of convenience", "friends to get out of the house and talk to an adult a couple times a week." Since that all stopped almost 7 years ago (omg it was 7 years ago????? Time flies!) I have since cut all of them out of my life. It's funny how my personality and friendships evolved after children. With young kids, everything is a sacrifice for them ... including personal interests, they are #1 in my life. For the first time, I saw that I had something in common with every single mother of young children on the planet (for an INFJ, this is a TOTAL first!!!)! Then the kids run off to school and for the first time I thought: "Ok now, who am I again?" Those previous friends start dropping when I notice we have nothing in common anymore. Not a big deal as it is a mutual thing.

Back to the Bday Party. All times in the past, this is the party that I dreaded. The only time of the year I was forced to be in the same room with all these other women. For the first time, it was not awkward or uncomfortable. I didn't care anymore. I wasn't unpleasant to anyone, but not friendly either. Yes, Sunny the good ex-friend was there. I didn't say a word to her or the other women the entire time. For the first time it is like I saw some darkness looming over all of them ... it's that darkness that makes you want to run away from someone.

For the first time in my life, I honestly feel like I have let go of her now. Cut out the cancer or discard the bullshit in my life. It feels pretty good. I refuse to be a doormat.



p.s. YOU, YES YOU. You know who you are reading this. If I knew you were a snake, I would not have picked you up.
Time for you to get a grip and get some

 

[Kgal]

I have not had too many "failed" friendships, but many (even very close friendships) that simply evaporated because of changing circumstances in life. I find, in retrospect, that I have come to not rely on friendships at all. I have friends/acquaintences sure, but I expect very, very little and enjoy them simply for what they are. This may sound frightfully dismal, but I think I am in a more free state now...free to care, and listen, and engage without expecting anything.

In the interest of full disclosure, I must also admit that in this regard the spiritual life has made quite a difference for me. I feel enfolded by ever-present love, very deep, profound, and unconditional. This, too, I feel, liberates one and fills a certain inner void, centering us in the midst of life's ever-present turmoils, including those that may originate within relationships.

+1 This.

When I was your age I went through some similar (not quite) experiences with friends.
What I found intriguing was your comment about how you never forget them and the deep bond that existed between you. During those years my bf and I would talk on the phone for hours at least once a week. Over the years our need for the intensity would wax and wane, sometimes leaving me feeling sad. Now when I look at my friendships I made as I moved across the country there are a few whom I cherish because they are as you say "Low Maintenance". A phone call will allow us to pick up as if we never stopped.

I think as INFJs we form "heart" bonds with people we love. We become entangled with them and their heart energy. When the energy is pulled away from us, I think we feel it more intensely much like a piece of our body was torn away. I used to tell people those I love are invited into the space of my heart where they can nestle. I have found the ones who nestled there early in my life fused with my heart. When they walked away they took pieces with them. Yes. Just as you say.
This is the physical feel of it.
The other side of this is - our Ego's seek those with whom we can have relationships due to some need not met within us. As long as we allow a person to meet the need, instead of ourselves meeting it (healing it) then we will always react strongly to that person.

I just read your recent post.
Congrats on being able to recognize what you need for your best welfare!
AND you have healed you. :clap2:

 

[Feelings]

At 37 years old, I believe I have finally found the key to successful friendships (as an INFJ.) I do have several friends, about 5 whom I can tell ANYTHING and about 5 more because of mutual respect and history (who may fail in time due to lack of depth.) I do have several acquaintences as well.

10????????????????????????? How the f......... 10??????????????? I don't even have 10 friends altogether in the entire history of my life.

All of my failed friendships have one thing in common ... high maintenance. If I was constantly having to talk or keep up with them, it was a drain on my energy...but I did it anyway (b/c some types need that constant affirmation.) Specifically, I had one very very close friend. We saw each other nearly twice a week and would speak by phone a couple times a week as well. We got along very well, and I enjoyed my time with her for three years. Then all of a sudden, she has found a new BFF. SUCH IS THE STORY OF MY LIFE. You open up your heart and soul to someone ... only for them to move on. I was devistated. The feeling I had of rejection was very painful. So I cut her off entirely and she never understood why. She was ok with having MANY friends and was very extroverted. I realize it is b/c I needed to remove myself in order to avoid the conflict and pain. Closure? RIIIIGGGHT. I don't think there is such thing for our type.

Ya I understand how this would be veerrryyy verry bad.

It has been four years and I still think of her, not often. My disconnect has evolved from being bitter to reflection. Still, I cannot let go and probably never will. I feel like everytime I make myself that vulnerable in a relationship ... that person gets a piece of my soul which I can never get back.

Ya but you get used to losing pieces of your soul. I did.

I have learned, and my closest friends (some being INFJs) can all agree that our most successful friendships are ones that are not high maintenance. We respect each others space and are not on top of each other. I may go weeks without talking to any of them, but when I call ... we pick up where we last left off (with no question at all.) There is never any problem with that "space" ... never. And we would be there for each other in a heartbeat if there was a problem.

Hmm.. the way I see it is, if you have no expectations on the other person, then it's pretty hard for them to screw up. Some people are more easygoing, and of course they'd have an easier time getting along with people. Or just people who have matching expectations would get on well.

I do have to say that a few of these friendships in the beginning took some time to procure, especially the friendships with the INFJs. Both being a bit paranoid and some what guarded, our meetings at first were very awkward. I met my best friend through an internet forum and we found we had too many things in common. Almost like living in a parallel world. So we met, and it was VERY awkward ... honestly it may never have worked out b/c of the awkwardness feeling, but we stuck to it and met again and again. Our friendship had blossomed and it is for life.

Just wait until she turns on you.......... I'm always paranoid that anyone could turn on me..... except my mother.

My intention is to not become close knit, but to see if contact again would heal. At any rate, I'll keep you posted. I honestly feel indifferent about it (at the moment, tomorrow I may think OH SHIT WHAT HAVE I DONE!!!).

Smart girl. The friendship would never be the same, trust would never reach the same level.

It seemed the whole event was a Ghosts of Ex-Friends Past. I wasn't necessarily "friends" with all these women in the past, we were part of a playgroup for our young kids ... more "friends of convenience", "friends to get out of the house and talk to an adult a couple times a week." Since that all stopped almost 7 years ago (omg it was 7 years ago????? Time flies!) I have since cut all of them out of my life. It's funny how my personality and friendships evolved after children. With young kids, everything is a sacrifice for them ... including personal interests, they are #1 in my life. For the first time, I saw that I had something in common with every single mother of young children on the planet (for an INFJ, this is a TOTAL first!!!)! Then the kids run off to school and for the first time I thought: "Ok now, who am I again?" Those previous friends start dropping when I notice we have nothing in common anymore. Not a big deal as it is a mutual thing.

Mothers do love their children. I'm starting to notice this pattern.

Back to the Bday Party. All times in the past, this is the party that I dreaded. The only time of the year I was forced to be in the same room with all these other women. For the first time, it was not awkward or uncomfortable. I didn't care anymore. I wasn't unpleasant to anyone, but not friendly either. Yes, Sunny the good ex-friend was there. I didn't say a word to her or the other women the entire time. For the first time it is like I saw some darkness looming over all of them ... it's that darkness that makes you want to run away from someone.

Doesn't really sound like you had much of a relationship with them in the first place. Doesn't sound like you were on very good terms with them.

For the first time in my life, I honestly feel like I have let go of her now. Cut out the cancer or discard the bullshit in my life. It feels pretty good. I refuse to be a doormat.

Oh. I see. You didn't give her all that time and attention because you just wanted to, but because you felt guilty.

p.s. YOU, YES YOU. You know who you are reading this. If I knew you were a snake, I would not have picked you up.
Time for you to get a grip and get some

Oic. You have some female forum friend that you're on shaky ground with?

During those years my bf and I would talk on the phone for hours at least once a week.

That's a low amount.

I think as INFJs we form "heart" bonds with people we love. We become entangled with them and their heart energy. When the energy is pulled away from us, I think we feel it more intensely much like a piece of our body was torn away.

I tend to feel like ppl have become a small part of me. I latch on hard (like, internally, in my feelings) and always remember the person and feel their absence. Sometimes this happens really fast. Always sad to see them go. It's happened so many fucking times.

I used to tell people those I love are invited into the space of my heart where they can nestle.

I'm interested. I would like to take residence and nestle in both your heart and bosom.

The other side of this is - our Ego's seek those with whom we can have relationships due to some need not met within us. As long as we allow a person to meet the need, instead of ourselves meeting it (healing it) then we will always react strongly to that person.

Very very smart girl. This is good shit right here. Very nicely figured out. I'll be hanging onto this one. Errrr one thing. For some needs u rly do need other people to meet it. I fink u and I should talk. You may be able to help me on this point. If you can find a way for me to meet my own needs without others, then I am very very very very very very very interested.

 

[Kgal]

I tend to feel like ppl have become a small part of me. I latch on hard (like, internally, in my feelings) and always remember the person and feel their absence. Sometimes this happens really fast. Always sad to see them go. It's happened so many fucking times.

I'm interested. I would like to take residence and nestle in both your heart and bosom.

You gotta quit taking this perspective with me. :hand: I'm old enough to be your grandmother and you will never nestle in my bosom.

Very very smart girl. This is good shit right here. Very nicely figured out. I'll be hanging onto this one. Errrr one thing. For some needs u rly do need other people to meet it. I fink u and I should talk. You may be able to help me on this point. If you can find a way for me to meet my own needs without others, then I am very very very very very very very interested.

I think you are still in the process of defining your core self. Definition implies boundaries. Even though 2 people fall in love and their selves seem to merge - the relationship allows for each to remain an individual. I was not very successful with this, though, when I fell in love the first time. But that's what the literature says about a healthy relationship.
My core self was very defined and I think largely due to that, while I dated a lot, I didn't "fall hard" for many guys at all.

Let me know when you Blog about this and I'll be happy to talk with you.

 

[nyc bred]

Do INFJ's really feel like they lose a part of their soul when losing friends?

I'm an INTJ and I've done a good share of cutting people out of my life because logically they didn't fit in there one way or another anymore. After I cut them out, I never/rarely think of them again. They become permanently a thing of the past.

I have an INFJ friend whom I care alot for. We started as mere acquaintinces the first 1-2 years, but the past months we have gotten extremely close. We talk for hours online and on the phone, and we text random bs back and forth that we find interesting in our daily lives. I know alot of her secrets, and she knows alot of mine (things that some of my friends of 15 years don't even know). We reach out to each other fairly evenly.

If there ever comes a day where our friendship falls apart (which I really hope doesn't), I don't ever want her to feel like she lost part of her soul or think that I never cared about her....

P.S I'll also add that she is a very supportive friend. She's always very re-affirming with her words and dare I say have more confidence in me than I do in myself sometimes. I try to show her the same support but it's not in my nature. I can't really verbalize my support for her, but I do my best to show it, and sometimes force myself to say supportive things even if its awkward...so yea

 

[Nitesteamer]

Do INFJ's really feel like they lose a part of their soul when losing friends?<br>


Yes. A part of our soul can mesh with certain people, and when a separation(especially a sudden one) occurs, a tearing away takes place like K-gal and Sriracha said.

We grieve deeply, but we do regenerate.......slowly

I hope that you can stay close to your infj friend.

 

[Gaze]

It's not just INFJs. I think all types feel this to some degree. I think NFs or SFs probably feel this more intensely compared to other types.

 

[Nitesteamer]

Good point Rite.