Let's make this place better

[Orion]

If the forum is sinking, I would look more into MBTI as a whole becoming less exciting and more and more people realizing that MBTI itself doesn't properly encapsulate a true person. I cant distinguish between my or other peoples personalities anymore based on the simple fact that any way you slice someones words or actions you can fit it into one of the preconceived molds of the MBTI.

Please read the OP carefully, you'll realise that I want MBTI to go away in place of Analytical Psychology.

I think MBTI in general is just losing its appeal on a more big picture scene and as such its correlating entities like discussion groups etc are stagnating.

No... that's your opinion and loss of interest. Have you been on Personality Nation? If anything type is having a massive resurgence because people are finally beginning to realise that MBTI is comes from a source, JCF, which in itself is a small part of Analytical Psychology, which in turn is a huge, complex and extremely fascinating subject. It takes almost a life time for a professional psychologist to study and practice Jungian Psychology. There is so much more to this that you are not seeing. Case in point!

Jesus [MENTION=3465]Limit[/MENTION]; help me out here.

 

[Billy]

Please read the OP carefully, you'll realise that I want MBTI to go away in place of Analytical Psychology.



No... that's your opinion and loss of interest. Have you been on Personality Nation? If anything type is having a massive resurgence because people are finally beginning to realise that MBTI is comes from a source, JCF, which in itself is a small part of Analytical Psychology, which in turn is a huge, complex and extremely fascinating subject. It takes almost a life time for a professional psychologist to study and practice Jungian Psychology. There is so much more to this that you are not seeing. Case in point!

Jesus [MENTION=3465]Limit[/MENTION]; help me out here.

I understand that you enjoy JCF and MBTI, but as for people being interested in it, much less today then last year as far as I can tell, and thats me being on about 6 MBTI based forums for differing Types im very good at noticing trends. Even on most of those forums and news groups I frequent I noticed that non-psychology and MBTI topics are beginning to overtake the psych and mbti topics. Ennegrams seem to have boosted the topics life, but its still getting boring fast because at the root, you just have to discount too many variations for the JCF's and MBTI and Ennegrams to work effectively and people are waking up to that I think.

 

[Orion]

I understand that you enjoy JCF and MBTI, but as for people being interested in it, much less today then last year as far as I can tell, and thats me being on about 6 MBTI based forums for differing Types im very good at noticing trends. Even on most of those forums and news groups I frequent I noticed that non-psychology and MBTI topics are beginning to overtake the psych and mbti topics. Ennegrams seem to have boosted the topics life, but its still getting boring fast because at the root, you just have to discount too many variations for the JCF's and MBTI and Ennegrams to work effectively and people are waking up to that I think.

Thanks. But I'm also good at seeing patterns too. But I'm even better at seeing the possibilities for growth and change in something and using my abilities to help it.

All I consistently hear on this forum is variants of the following: "Too hard. Give up." "People aren't interested. Give up." Fuck off. Lol.

 

[Raccoon Love]

To be honest, when I joined this forum I also had the intention of discussing MBTI despite the fact that I was already holding deep personal issues. It was not long before this forum broke me out of my shell, I felt a sense of warmth. Connections I have not felt in any other forum or even in my life outside the internet. The feelings this forum has brought upon me are very real. I felt as if this where my family, my refuge. A place where I can escape from the struggles of my daily life and enjoy conversation with the most tolerance, accepting, and compassionate people I've ever met in my entire life. I care and treasure the people here with all my heart. When I see this forum hurt, it hurts me. I cry and tear. To see another member in problems, I can't simply be an spectator. I feel the need to intervene, this is my family and I can't leave it alone. This goes beyond a simple interest forum. I felt we left the atmosphere of simple forum purposes and went beyond that. I was glad to spend my Christmas here. I was glad to spend my New Year's here. I was glad to spend my birthday here. This is home. It did not feel as if I were behind a computer screen and simply typing. No, you could feel it more than that. It felt as if someone where to pop out of my screen and give me a hug or a touch, saying "it will all be ok". Everyday in school, I think about this forum. It has become a part of me. Part of who I am. We have all gone through roller coasters, but together we cheer each other up. The reason why perhaps there's so much "drama" is because this forum is like a family. And in every family there's struggles, disagreements, feelings hurt. Do you actually think if this was a regular forum people would care about the forums state? No, life would simply move on. This is not the case here. I love this forum with all my heart, and I'm getting very emotional over this so I am running out of words to say. But people think, this is simply a phase, a cycle. We can all break out of this together.

 

[Billy]

Thanks. But I'm also good at seeing patterns too. But I'm even better at seeing the possibilities for growth and change in something and using my abilities to help it.

All I consistently hear on this forum is variants of the following: "Too hard. Give up." "People aren't interested. Give up." Fuck off. Lol.

I understand the urge to fix the place up, but unfortunately it wont work because

A. its a forum filled with people with different wants.
B. forums die eventually, this is in an inevitability.
C. MBTI, JCF, Ennegrams et al are becoming a stagnant conversation and people are moving on.

Look for a more appropriate solution, the one I was able to gleam from other forums I loved that lived ad died was that I connected with a certain few people quite well and we became friends off the forum, even if only on AIM and Facebook etc and then I didn't need the forum to have a companion to talk about the things I liked to talk about.

I have had Online friends from AOL Message Boards and beyond for over 15 years... I've never met many of these people and yet they are an everyday part of my life and trusted allies in conversation.

This forum is just programming, the people are who make it what it is... and you can not organize people unless they all buy into the same goal, and short of the military, monetary incentives, and pain of death, people will act in accordance to their self interests and not agree with everyone else. To quote a George Romero movie "thats the problem with life Sarah my darling, people got different ideas what they want out of life."

My "forum" of friends is pretty vast from across time that I carry forward with me in my experience, I dont need this virtual space to converse with them, but it is nice to pick up new ones, while it lasts mind you. And in the end, thats really all you can hope for.

 

[NiennaLadyOfTears]

If this forum is going to become elitist then I will be leaving. Bye.

 

[Peppermint]

Y'know, I find it peculiar that people "don't care about JFC or MBTI" yet they still cling to the sense of identity they get from it, as if it's some kind of membership card without which they're going to get ostracized out of the community.

If you're afraid you're going to get kicked out of the community because you have the wrong, otherwise pretty much arbitrary label, then you need to think a bit more about what kind of bonds you have here and what sort of treatment the community gives to typology, and even moreso, if the link to MBTI is even necessary under such circumstances.

 

[NiennaLadyOfTears]

I don't understand why suddenly being tested as an INFJ according to the MBTI is not enough.

 

[Peppermint]

I don't understand why suddenly being tested as an INFJ according to the MBTI is not enough.

What Orion's proposing isn't about elitism, it's about people knowing about the theories which are used at arrive at type, rather than taking it at face value. It's about approaching the subjec in a way that will garner more accurate and more wholesome ways about understanding your type and self discovery.

But, it's still not a demand, just a proposal.

Tests are not a good way to figure out your type, but I'll spare you the droning, because its a subject that's been discussed to death.

 

[NiennaLadyOfTears]

If tests are not a good way then what is? Tests plus descriptions of the type as verification?

 

[Peppermint]

I'll use a few quotes.

Jung stressed that everyone has his or her own unique pattern of attitudes and functions, and he insisted that his conception of eight basic “psychological types” was intended simply to help in classifying his data. Unfortunately, despite Jung’s repeated warnings, psychologists and others have tended to regard the eight “types” that we will describe here as fixed categories into which all people are supposed to fit.

Assessing someone’s psychological type requires estimating the relative strength of attitudes and functions and judging also whether each is conscious or unconscious. Usually, this sort of assessment can be made only through long-term study or analytic treatment, but efforts have been made to shorten the process by devising tests—lists of questions about preferences, interests, habitual behaviors.

The author concludes with a chapter on the value and limitation of psychological type. Jung was very aware of the limitations of his theory. He did not consider it as a way to understand the total individual. Jung didn’t attempt to put his ideas into a test form. The author cautions against using tests in an absolute way. The context of the individual’s life may conceal his or her type. The circumstances of life may be so ingrained that the individual can no longer determine true preferences.

 

[Trifoilum]

I have little to no elaborations to offer, so I'll just skin through them atm.

I think essentially, this forum should (and is, in some levels) a forum to learn.
MBTI, JCF, Enneagram, sure. But also beyond those, and also without those.

Because none of us specifically -need- our INFJ / type badge to learn and be a better person than we are yesterday, yesteryear.

(add : of course, to a point, we're talking about learning typology.)
Question is, you're focused towards definition. Will definition include? Or will it alienate instead? Inbetween MBTI & JCF, it seems like JCF are holding the throne of Stop Having Fun Guys ('nononono this is Ni this is Fi this is Fe (and you are wrong)'), while MBTI holds the throne of Munchkin. ('I got tested as INFJ/INTJ/XXXX! I'm an INFJ OMG this is so me!'). Focusing towards one will inevitably alienate the other, because then you either saw people (indirectly, subtly) telling you you've got to read books and pages and plenty of discussions to even talk about one attributes under the MBTI codes, or people not knowing better claiming things, forcing their self identity under the MBTI codes.

To be honest, I don't know the answer. To be honest too, I feel like I'm rambling.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Y'know, I find it peculiar that people "don't care about JFC or MBTI" yet they still cling to the sense of identity they get from it, as if it's some kind of membership card without which they're going to get ostracized out of the community.

If you're afraid you're going to get kicked out of the community because you have the wrong, otherwise pretty much arbitrary label, then you need to think a bit more about what kind of bonds you have here and what sort of treatment the community gives to typology, and even moreso, if the link to MBTI is even necessary under such circumstances.

Typology is more of a personal quest, and as a matter of fact I'm not as active on trying to find my "type" as I was once. I've pretty much put that aside. I know I will always have acceptance in this forum, no matter what "label" I put myself. At least upon the friendships I've been able to make here. It's not the label you put yourself into, but the maturity of your personality and what you show to others what might seem as negative "stereotypes" of a particular type. I can think of multiple people of different types here who are widely respected and appreciated as part of the family.

 

[Arsal]

If tests are not a good way then what is? Tests plus descriptions of the type as verification?

Understanding how cognitive functions work; how they interact with one another; how their combination leads to different types; how this leads to difference in preference, tolerance, coping with stress, etc; how it can explain why certain people act the way they do.

INFJ, in its full definition, means having a conscious preference for Ni and Fe functions. This is what the descriptions of the type are based on. However, type descriptions can be misleading, because type in essence, is distinct from personality.

You may see yourself in the INFJ personality, but it's not necessary that you are the INFJ type, which is a certain orientation of your psyche that can lead to many different personalities with respect to 1) the kind of environment they are exposed to, and 2) how they are internally wired to react to it.

Not all INFJs are going to have a similar personality, and yes, it is possible for other types (particularly INFP) to have the "INFJ personality". They are not, however, going to share the same cognitive preference which tends to manifest in a myriad of ways, which is what this thread is making an appeal to understanding further.

Also, quoting for emphasis:

What Orion's proposing isn't about elitism, it's about people knowing about the theories which are used at arrive at type, rather than taking it at face value. It's about approaching the subjec in a way that will garner more accurate and more wholesome ways about understanding your type and self discovery.

 

[arbygil]

I agree with a lot of the points brought up here - and I'm speaking as a member, not as an admin, so don't take this with an "aha! It's good to go!" mindset.

What might be a good idea is to start out small, with a sub-forum dedicated to JCF vs MBTI and truly in depth articles. If *that* can get started, with different people contributing and discussing, then I think that your idea has merit, [MENTION=1378]Orion[/MENTION]. But it will take more than a few willing to continue it.

Maybe create a "course" in JCF with different people teaching and other people responding. Create a mini-exam (open book) with lots of room for discussion. As people get comfortable with the idea of Jung and MBTI, they'll be able to discuss it more. If they're uncertain about it (or afraid someone will call them out for being "wrong") then they won't want to discuss it.

But I like the idea. It may be possible here, but you'll have to start out slow and build it up.

 

[Feelings]

i think billy knows what he's talking about
i think OP is trying to shape the forum into what he wants it to be or what he thinks it should be
unfortunately not all members are going to be on board with the exact same desires
and maybe once the "best" vision for the board is established, those members would be outcasted because they don't fit into the "best interests" of the board
scary

I mean, there's a a psychology and MBTI subforum, as well as a subforum specific to INFJs. Sure you can split off the subforums in a different way and throw in a few articles. I'm all for that if people are interested.

but I think that OP's proposition as a vision for the entire forum is overreaching
And I think that his intentions, or appearance of best intentions, and positivity is very persuasive.
this whole thing frightens me because this is exactly how I would write if I really wanted to persuade someone of something and garner support and elicit action towards my objectives

 

[Nixie]

I hate to admit it but the OP made my Ni go wtf in a way. Made me feel like leaving.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

I hate to admit it but the OP made my Ni go wtf in a way. Made me feel like leaving.

The premise stated in the first couple of paragraphs was slightly abrasive, even if it was not meant to be. I think that aside from it, the logic of the body of the post is sound.

 

[This]

I think where members spend their time here has a lot to do with how they perceive these forums, I can only speak for myself personally, but I am subscribed to 56 different blogs on this forum (As well as several others of members and former members; off forum.) and I read every damn one of them on a daily basis. It's really easy to start to get "attached" to people. Yes technically it is just a forum. A bunch of zeros and ones in cyberspace with a little platform on top of it. But the reason I stay here is the people, we are all real people that care about one another and support one another. I think many of us feel like we can talk about how we really feel here when there is nowhere else we can really do that, without it having implications on our relationships. It's more than MBTI or JFC or any of the like. :grouphug:

 

[aerosol]

What Orion's proposing isn't about elitism, it's about people knowing about the theories which are used at arrive at type, rather than taking it at face value. It's about approaching the subjec in a way that will garner more accurate and more wholesome ways about understanding your type and self discovery.

Yes... but so few will listen.

I've found that the most commonly confused thing appears to be sensation vs intuition. I see many sensors mistyping themselves (and others) as intuitives on here, and I think I should be allowed to say that without people calling me "elitist".