Lifestyle Choices

[Shai Gar]

to stone
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Quinlan]

I'm glad that you linked me to this article because I now know what you are basing your arguements on.

After reading the article, I've concluded several things.

1. The study done in rats shows that there is a genetic influence to obesity. The rats only became obese after adopting unhealthy eating habits. Had they not, they would not have become obese. While the risk for obesity may be greater in other because of genetics, it does not cause obesity.

2. There was a portion in this article that was talking about how when a person loses weight, an obese person, their calorie expenditure is low and their hunger increases, which explains why people go off their diets and gain weight. Regardless of the stress the article had on how ravenous the food cravings are, if the person eats an amount of calories they can burn of obesity will not occur.


The article, basically, was saying the reason people go off their diet has a lot to do with the cravings genetically being harder to ignore than in normal people- but this does NOT cause obesity. Overconsumption of calories that cannot be burned off by the body does. While it is more likely, and easier for certain persons to become obese simply because of these genetics factors, it does NOT create obesity, as was proven by the rats.

But you're still operating in the realm of ideology, you are basing your belief in the idea that somehow the concious mind is all powerful and can override these basic drives. I go back to my suggestion of holding your breath for an hour, what causes you to eventually gulp for air? The basic unconcious drive to breathe or the lack of control of the concious mind? Both really, but for practically purposes it is whatever wins out in the end that is the cause and in this case the basic drive almost always wins. Time and time again in all studies concious control proves to be a complete and utter failure in the long term.

I have already mentioned in this thread that I think obesity is a choice, but it's a choice I don't blame people for making, just as I don't blame someone for chosing to eventually breathe if they attempt to hold their breath for an hour.

As for the rats, you say the obese rats only became obese when they eat unhealthy, which was the same amount as the normal weight rats. So an obese person needs to eat considerably less than a normal person to be eating "healthy" so how much less is it? and if that level is close to starvation levels is that a reasonable and moral expectation to have of obese people?

 

[slant]

But you're still operating in the realm of ideology, you are basing your belief in the idea that somehow the concious mind is all powerful and can override these basic drives. I go back to my suggestion of holding your breath for an hour, what causes you to eventually gulp for air? The basic unconcious drive to breathe or the lack of control of the concious mind? Both really, but for practically purposes it is whatever wins out in the end that is the cause and in this case the basic drive almost always wins. Time and time again in all studies concious control proves to be a complete and utter failure in the long term.

I have already mentioned in this thread that I think obesity is a choice, but it's a choice I don't blame people for making, just as I don't blame someone for chosing to eventually breathe if they attempt to hold their breath for an hour.

As for the rats, you say the obese rats only became obese when they eat unhealthy, which was the same amount as the normal weight rats. So an obese person needs to eat considerably less than a normal person to be eating "healthy" so how much less is it? and if that level is close to starvation levels is that a reasonable and moral expectation to have of obese people?

To hold your breath for an hour without breathing is not possible without killing you. To limit the intake of calories you eat to the number of calories you are able to burn is possible, and it will not kill you.

The rat study noted the rats became obese when fed a high fat diet, vs a normal diet. From my understand it had nothing to do with eat less food as it was eating healthier, less high in fat foods.

 

[Quinlan]

to stone
Posted via Mobile Device

What relevance does it have/ why do you want to know?

But since you asked, I eat cereal for breakfast. Eat out for lunch (usually asian food, sushi, fried rice etc sometimes a ham and cheese toasted sandwhich and a brownie. For tea I have all sorts, sometimes stir fry, meat and 3 veg, steak eggs and chips, shepherds pie etc. I often have a chocolate bar between breakfast and lunch and a bowl of noodles between lunch and tea. I also don't exercise regularly.

In theory I SHOULD be enormous, the size of a house, but even with all that I am not obese, because of my genes...

 

[Quinlan]

To hold your breath for an hour without breathing is not possible without killing you. To limit the intake of calories you eat to the number of calories you are able to burn is possible, and it will not kill you.

Well actually, if you're still holding your breath by definition you're not dead yet. Or do our collective failures to do so prove that it is likely impossible (or at least improbable)?

The rat study noted the rats became obese when fed a high fat diet, vs a normal diet. From my understand it had nothing to do with eat less food as it was eating healthier, less high in fat foods.

Read again:

Although people who undergo bariatric surgery lose a significant amount of weight, nearly all remain clinically obese. This result is consistent with animal studies that showing that genetically obese animals become obese even when their food intake is restricted to that of the control mice.