Love.

[SpecialEdition]

My opinion is that no one ever really knows someone else fully. You can get to know them though in a way where what you know of them you love. Its a process though of weighing the good to have more value than the bad. Of over looking things you dont like or understand. Does love necessitate being able to look past what you dont agree with or does it instead allow you to accept the things into your life that you normally would not? Has anyone who has been in a relationship with someone they believed loves or loved them believe that person loves EVERYTHING about them?
So for you to accept that you are loved do you have to believe your partner loves everything about you or are you ok with them loving you more and that being an offset for what they may not. If you find something about your partner you dont love do you try to change them into something you can love more easily potentially changing them in the process?

Here is what I think:

You do NOT love someone if you want to change fundamental parts of who they are. You cannot just love selective parts of a person and hope that the other pieces will come together in order to satisfy a fantasy you have created around them. A person just is and to try get them to change to suit you personally and doling out love based on your level of satisfaction is ridiculous.

I do believe you can love someone while wanting them to grow. Growth is a change that comes from within and that happens slowly on a gradient. It is not something that can be dictated or enforced. it is part of a person's natural evolution. You cannot make a person grow, you can only support them as they are and let them continue on their personal journey. Supporting someone as they grow does not get you attached to an "idea."

I believe you can love someone while getting them to consider. If there is something about a person that you do not feel comfortable with you should be able to bring it to their attention for their consideration, not with the expectation that they will do something about it. If you can have a rational conversation about what you feel should be or could be changed, you should be able to accept their decision. If this change is for the betterment of them as a human being and will lead to growth, then you can still love them. If this change comes from a selfish place, you do not love them. If the change is for their betterment as a human being and they choose not to and therefore tend to be toxic to themselves and by extension to you, you can love them but they will hurt you and you are better off leaving sometimes.

I am currently in a relationship with someone who I consider to be perfect for me. He is honestly the best person I know. He is such a calm and rational person. He makes good decisions. He is happy and content in his life. He does not bend to social pressures and lives by his own morals. There are many qualities about him that I have admired even before we were involved. He has gone through his own personal evolution and is years ahead of me in that department. I have loved him for years. He has loved me for years, too, though I used to fear that he wouldn't because of all of my flaws. I have a lot of demons to overcome and with his help am becoming more and more successful at being the best version of myself. I always feared that he would lose patience with me as I went through things but so far he hasn't. I am slowly accepting that he loves all of me for who I am at this exact moment, but I also recognize that he sees that I could be better... For MYSELF, not for him. He believes I am perfect for him but feels distress when I am struggling with things in my life. He feels the need to help and to solve things, but tries to step back and never dictates to me. Instead, he waits for me to come up with strategies I want to try to improve certain areas of my life.

Some examples:
I wanted to learn to cook and to eat better. He bought just about everything in my kitchen, sends me tons of recipes for things I might like, suggests ways to prepare food in advance, etc. I opened the door, he flooded me with resources and information.

I want to pay off the rest of my debt and save. He worked out an excel spreadsheet over several months to help me account for my money and come up with strategies to save.

I want to get into shape and lose weight. He creates a spreadsheet of specific workouts so I do not have to think about it or worry, I just show up and do what's laid out for me. He sends me countless podcasts, videos, studies, etc that are relevant to my specific circumstances.

Essentially, when I bring a problem to the table and things I want to investigate he will spend a substantial amount of time researching and helping to provide me with the information I need to meet my goals. He NEVER tells me I should do something or that i should NOT do something. His primary concern is that I am happy. He tries to make my life easier in any way that I can. He supports me through everything and I crash and burn a LOT. He does not understand my emotional state a lot of the times but he lets me be exactly as I am and if he judges it, he does not express it. He just receives me as I am and then we move forward together.

So I do think you can fully love a flawed person. But love is not superficial and it is not selfish. So if any of those elements come into it, it is NOT love.

 

[apemon]

So you're saying you want to be our sacrifical lamb?

Nemo is 'no man' above the physical realm

Buddha also is represented by two characters - one means 'man'. the other 'no'.

 

[muir]

Buddha also is represented by two characters - one means 'man'. the other 'no'.

Interesting!

Well there we are....he had transcended the abyss

he was a master of the temple

 

[bionic]

Great stuff. However I am getting older and that along with other things has not worked. So I either believe thats simply the way its going to be or try to find answers in places I have not looked yet.

Your girl friend needs to believe in herself. A boss thats verbally abusive? There are laws against that. How she throws her self at guys is her business but yeah... she needs to see who she is.

Maybe that's the problem though? Well maybe it doesn't have to be that way. Perhaps you can put all the over-analyzing aside and just focus on you. I honestly gave up on trying to find love. I was much more career driven and I literally put in the towel. I swore off dating altogether. Then a few months later, I met someone out of the blue and it just developed from there. It's not something that can be controlled... it just happens when it's supposed to happen. Love is weird like that lol.

Yeah... I've literally taken out a mirror and made her stare at herself and say "I value you". Unfortunately, she is in a difficult situation job wise because she needs the $$. He will send her texts like "You're an reliable employee. Text me now or don't come in on Monday. You are a suck at your job." It's very fucked up. I told her to save every text she has of him saying verbally abusive things to show to the dept of labor if he ever fires her. Her whole situation is sad all around. She's been on some interviews so hopefully she gets something soon.

I like how you quoted one of my professors in your signature, lol.

 

[Zelotex]

It's more a way of describing a state of being where a person has burnt off all of their worldy attachments. The abyss contains your personal demon, the thing that you are most afraid of, which sabotages your lifeA person who faces and defeats their demon and transcends the abyss passes through the fires. As i say these are all words to describe processes that people attest toSo when you have burnt off all your wordly attachments then you are no longer 'Zelotex' you are no man (nemo), just as God is beyond 'no-thing'; it is that which cannot be described in words...the ineffable...much like love in that sense

Sorry, what do you mean? :-|

 

[apemon]

Sorry, what do you mean? :-|

He speaks of Zen perhaps. The fire that burns away all that is not true. Realizing all fear is ultimately the fear of no-self. (or no 'man'). Might be close anyway. So many things are a not-sure. :boom:

 

[Eventhorizon]

Maybe that's the problem though? Well maybe it doesn't have to be that way. Perhaps you can put all the over-analyzing aside and just focus on you. I honestly gave up on trying to find love. I was much more career driven and I literally put in the towel. I swore off dating altogether. Then a few months later, I met someone out of the blue and it just developed from there. It's not something that can be controlled... it just happens when it's supposed to happen. Love is weird like that lol.

Yeah... I've literally taken out a mirror and made her stare at herself and say "I value you". Unfortunately, she is in a difficult situation job wise because she needs the $$. He will send her texts like "You're an reliable employee. Text me now or don't come in on Monday. You are a suck at your job." It's very fucked up. I told her to save every text she has of him saying verbally abusive things to show to the dept of labor if he ever fires her. Her whole situation is sad all around. She's been on some interviews so hopefully she gets something soon.

I like how you quoted one of my professors in your signature, lol.

Mark Twain? Your not suggesting Dr. Kaku is a professor of yours?

 

[La Sagna]

The beginning of love is to let those we love be perfectly themselves, and not to twist them to fit our own image. Otherwise we love only the reflection of ourselves we find in them.

Thomas Merton

 

[muir]

The western concept of courtly love actually came from the muslims

The troubadours learned their love songs in the muslim courts of Al-Andalus and they travelled north into France and Britain and Germany and sung of love and chivalry and planted these ideas in the rough and ready frankish knights who were either warring or practicisng warring (jousts)

Nationalistic arab hero (was really kurdish) Saladin for example gained a reputation as merciful and chivalrous in christendom after letting people leave jerusalem in peace even when it was under his sword. This was in complete contrast to the 'christian' army that conquered jerusalem who butchered everyone they found there: muslim, jew and eastern christians (in some cases)

So the muslims had a civilising effect on Europe which they are not often credited for. No islamic courlty love no romeo and juliet

The christians had a more...prgmatic view for exmaple through arranged marriages or if a knight wanted a ladys lands he would often simply kidnap her and marry her

The scottish king james 1st seemed a rare exception who fell in love with a woman from the English court whilst he was raised there as a captive. He could see her in the gardens below from his window and as a poet he would have notes passed to the woman who he woo'd in secret. Despite no great political gain being achieved he married her

I think love has been around for a long time in the sense of that growing bond with others and it can exist between people of any genders and so on but there are other things that sometimes get layered over the top; in a materialistic society some people are perhaps more inclined to make a match through pragmatism then through the heart

But yeah...romantic love was popularised and etched onto the public consciousness by male troubadours influenced by the moors

 

[JGirl]

People also use the word "love" so liberally not realizing that it has different meanings depending on feelings or perspective. Many people also define love by feeling more than action, while others define love by action more than feeling. Example,

• If you love me, you would do or show A
• I love you which is why I did A instead of B
• Why would you do A instead of B if you love me?
• You don't love me if you do A because love is only true if you do B

the only statement i feel is valid in the list you gave is "I love you which is why i did a instead of b"
the others are merely someone else telling you how you are and how you should be according to their idea of love.