Magical Meditation Corner

[John K]

Of course John!
Don’t be shy.
I was raised Mormon (I am most certainly not now)...so we were taught contemplative prayer as opposed to say, the books and books of prayers Catholics memorize.
Anyhow...haven’t been to any church since I was 16 (not counting funeral services and marriages).
But I have come to see that both are very powerful tools even when you remove religion from the picture and look at them as speaking to your subconscious self that some think once had a voice like the left brain ego - this was the voice of “God”...until it was overridden by the ego self, and thus was the fall of man from the garden of eden/ignorance=bliss/primitive more instinctual/reactionary, primarily by coming into the power of speech...which the theory goes could have sounded and been perceived by those just evolving such brain functions as being separate from the perceived “self”, and egoless or very basic ego not yet in control brain. *big breath*
lol
Anyhow...or as some postulate, when the ego began to take over, we had no inner dialogue with oneself...this new voice began to appear in the minds of people with our evolution and development of language...and again...there is the idea that the fall of man was the development and “taking over” by the ego...which in it’s younger phase, may have

been much more cruel - an idea that is reflected in the progression of “God" in the Bible...until the ego develops empathy, represented by Christ, to once again, free us by trying to realize the power of love and forgiveness and evolve past the eye for an eye mentality of older, more primitive instincts.
Anyhow...it’s a thought.
Even the prayers that are memorized by some have specific pacing to them that is basically breath work combined with chanting.
Both of which are used liberally to achieve a meditative state worldwide.
But contemplative prayer is no different than contemplative meditation from a meditative perspective.
Of course with prayer there can be a further, deeper, more meaningful element for those who believe or have faith in whatever it is they have every right to believe.
But...honestly, when I think about it...both really seem geared to strip one of the ego, in the most basic sense.
Or to invoke a trance-like meditative state where both the religious and non religious meditators have found the primary mystical experience...eden...heaven....nirvana - peace through selflessness.

Thanks again for your insightful thoughts Skarekrow. I'll just brain-dump my own in response and see where they go .....

I think perhaps the main difference between what I experience and what most others seem to, is that for me it's all alive both outside and inside. If I dive deep into myself I find there is a life there that isn't my own, and when I go outside into the outer world, the same life is there in everything and everyone - and it's scale and beauty is beyond imagining. This isn't a belief - I suppose one way of expressing it is that it's a kind of seeing. I can't use any form of meditation without immediately being engulfed in this awareness, and it often breaks in on me by surprise at any time and stops me in my tracks with a shock of delight.

The Mormon's aren't big in the UK but they come round evangelising every so often - I've always been impressed by their spiritual integrity and their missionary courage, the ones I've met this way. It's never particularly appealed to me, but the people have impressed me. Their obsession with ancestors was a great help when I was researching my family ancestry a few years ago - I went along to their local church and picked up some great stuff off their microfilmed parish register records going back to 1670.

I often wonder if the idea of The Fall is a metaphor for when we developed self-awareness tens of thousands of years ago - the ego self as you express it. There's loads of rubbish talked about the Bible creation myths, but there's something quite profound in the metaphor of the Fall arising from the eating of an apple of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Very consistent with so much focus in meditation on setting aside the ego, and looking for a resolution to or transcendence from inner conflict. I'm very much on board with Jung's idea that only a small part of our psyche is accessible to our conscious mind, which is deceived into thinking it is all of us - this causes many of our inner problems and we project them unconsciously outside ourselves and so make them seem to be external.

I'm no intrepid spiritual explorer, but I'm out in the spiritual unknown quite a bit and things often go wrong, both there, and in everyday life. Building on your own thoughts, I'd say that I find the structure and routines of the public and private prayer of the Church a great help at times like that. They carry me, both in their form, but also through the support of other people. It's easy to knock these things and they can seem over formalised, out of date and irrelevant, but when you approach them with a positive attitude they don't half complement and support an inner spiritual development, particularly in recurring spells of spiritual dryness, or in the middle of one of life's many crises. I think the best way to think of the major religions is like a city - if you go to live in one, you will find a place in it where you live and spend most of your time. You will have your routine in the shops you use, where you work and the places and people you go to for leisure. There will be places there that you really like, and others that you don't like or aren't close to, so you don't go there - but others do like them and live in them and that's just fine, everyone to their own. There are other cities that you could have lived in, and you'd have the same sort of experience with those if you moved to one, once you got to know it.

Yes - once you get past the boundaries and out into the open under the stars, all the paths start to converge. There are apparent differences because one person may be seeking inner healing or a release from pain, another a greater awareness of the oneness of everything, another wanting to find meaning in their life, and another may be searching for God, etc. It seems to me that these are all just staging posts on the tracks, and beyond them it all ends up in the same place.

I do wish language didn't make thinking in text sound so definite and closed ended - these are thoughts not hard statements .......

 

[Skarekrow]

It seems to me that these are all just staging posts on the tracks, and beyond them it all ends up in the same place.

Love this thought and all the rest you took the time to try and wrap words around, though many will never be describable in such a way.
Thank you!
Much love.
I think being raised in the religion wasn’t so bad as a child...they emphasize family values (unless you are gay) and are very family-centric, they also refrain from caffeine, alcohol, smoking, etc. including rated R movies which they consider filling your head with negative things - which is often true in today’s movie market
No swearing, manners, etc. etc.
And yes...they also teach the Bible...they just teach their book as an account of Jesus coming to the early Natives of the Americas - which is pretty racist and anti-Native American - not surprisingly the early Mormon settlers slaughtered many natives.
Yes...I have quite a good record of my own genealogy because of other family members who have done the research.
Wanna know why they do that?
To baptize the dead.
To make sure their ancestors are posthumously baptized into the Mormon church.
But they don’t stop there...they do this to lots of the dead regardless...they feel they are saving their souls.
That it will allow them access to the higher kingdoms of God (there are 3 according to them).
You can come down to visit, but they cannot come up to visit you.
It’s an interesting concept of the afterlife.
I just cannot get past the anti-LGBQT rhetoric when they preach that family is number one...then ask that children disown their gay parent(s) or parents disown their children.
I find that foul and hateful and against what I thought it seemed to be about when I was a child and more ignorant.
Anyhow...there are “good" people and “bad” everywhere I suppose...it just certainly isn’t for me.
My parents left the church when I was 16 because my older brother came out as gay...they were told to choose...they chose him.
So....that colored my view of things for many years and I still hold some resentment toward that church in general.

I really do understand what you are saying there John.
About it going beyond a belief...about there being an inner light and life within us and all things...about how indescribably beautiful that can be...and how easily that can engulf you as you said.
I don’t NOT believe in God...I just have my own subjective idea of what God is...and I think you are correct - it is the same God...the same light.

I was only looking at the Bible from a materialist perspective - which still shows a benefit imho...which was my point.
The ideas about the fall are just theories...not necessarily that way of course.
No one alive really knows for sure what the real story is...parable, partial parable, actual story, who knows?
Just some things to think about...I do find it interesting that the tamping down of the ego seems to be connected somehow in both cases of religious and non-religious practice.
I’ve always found the idea of the Trees in the Garden as a very complex and revealing story in many ways.
The Gnostic version is even more curious...the idea of they cannot eat the fruit - “Lest they become Gods like Us.” (Plural)
Which was the ability to procreate and thus become creators ourselves...though there are more intense theories including creators of our reality.

Yes...the ego is deceptive...the last time I really dissolved my ego, everything was quite funny actually...to see the silly things we do for silly reasons in our mind that we determine to be important and they soooo are not, hahaha.
It was very odd...one could only sit there and observe how out of control we are of ourselves while being driven by the ego.
It was very enlightening for me...also saw how much the ego had incorporated the pain and illness into the “self” where my normal self thought it was quite under control in that sense.
But it had really started to incorporate itself, so it was good to get those tendrils out once that realization was clear.

Thank you again for sharing your experience and emotions and thoughts!
I hope it only continues to get better and clearer every day for you!
Peace be in your heart.
Much love!

 

[John K]

@John K this might interest you if you have some extra time on your hands
I've had some remarkable experiences through Lectio Divina

Many thanks again for spotlighting this video Wyote - I've played through it all now and it's highly appropriate to where I am at present. It does occur to me that although this is clearly a Christian meditation technique, I think it could be very readily adapted to other types of meditation including completely secular types. I could imagine using appropriate texts, pictures or even music clips in place of scripture for anyone who has hit a difficult spot and needs something to keep them going without stopping meditating altogether.

 

[Wyote]

Many thanks again for spotlighting this video Wyote - I've played through it all now and it's highly appropriate to where I am at present. It does occur to me that although this is clearly a Christian meditation technique, I think it could be very readily adapted to other types of meditation including completely secular types. I could imagine using appropriate texts, pictures or even music clips in place of scripture for anyone who has hit a difficult spot and needs something to keep them going without stopping meditating altogether.

Glad it resonated with you!
Sadly, this great man passed away a few days ago. His teachings will be with me always.

 

[Impact Character]

But I have come to see that both are very powerful tools even when you remove religion from the picture and look at them as speaking to your subconscious self that some think once had a voice like the left brain ego - this was the voice of “God”...until it was overridden by the ego self, and thus was the fall of man from the garden of eden/ignorance=bliss/primitive more instinctual/reactionary, primarily by coming into the power of speech...which the theory goes could have sounded and been perceived by those just evolving such brain functions as being separate from the perceived “self”, and egoless or very basic ego not yet in control brain. *big breath*
lol

Yes...the ego is deceptive...the last time I really dissolved my ego, everything was quite funny actually...to see the silly things we do for silly reasons in our mind that we determine to be important and they soooo are not, hahaha.
It was very odd...one could only sit there and observe how out of control we are of ourselves while being driven by the ego.
It was very enlightening for me...also saw how much the ego had incorporated the pain and illness into the “self” where my normal self thought it was quite under control in that sense.
But it had really started to incorporate itself, so it was good to get those tendrils out once that realization was clear.

Without interfering much here... (I enjoy this alot especially between you two @John K @Skarekrow ^^) ..I just need to say:
you are just great, Skarekrow. I don't mean to flatter.. but to show my honest appreciation for what you say and do! ♡ ❍



This brings me back to the time why I liked the book "Drawing with the Right Side of the Brain" so much.
(My former design study colleges didn't really understand my appreciation for this approach on drawing and painting.. but I understand what happened there much better now.. it's funny.)

"Twin skills and their transfer: L-mode and R-mode
Thus, in a sense, reading and drawing might be thought of as a twin skill: verbal, analytical L-mode skills as a major function of the left brain, and visual, perceptual R-mode skills as a major function of the right brain.
[...]

Language dominates
[...]
The right hemisphere exists in the moment, in a timeless, implicit world, where things are buried in context, and complicated outlooks are constantly changing. Impatient with the right hemisphere's view of the complex whole, the competitive left hemisphere tends to jump quickly into a task, bringing language to bear, even though it may be unsuited to that particular task.
[...]
When writing the original book, I needed to find a way to keep this from happening - a way to enable the right hemisphere to "come forward" to draw. This required finding a strategy to set aside the left hemisphere. Taking my cue from Upside-Down Drawing, and thinking hard, I laboriously arrived at a solution and stated it this way:

In order to gain access to the right hemisphere, it is necessary to present the left hemisphere with a task that will turn down."​

[...]"​

I have this one really strong memory of perceiving a zen moment while drawing with wax crayons as a kid (very artistically underrated and pleasing Se activity btw)..that I can't NOT think of as spiritual experience.
Now... this isn't quite a very popular view in most contexts I've wandered... but still I thought I might just throw this in.

 

[John K]

you are just great, Skarekrow. I don't mean to flatter.. but to show my honest appreciation for what you say and do! ♡ ❍

 

[Impact Character]

 

[John K]

Glad it resonated with you!
Sadly, this great man passed away a few days ago. His teachings will be with me always.

Did you know he had died when you pointed me towards the video? He passed away on Thursday, only a few hours before then. If it was a coincidence it's one of those striking ones, because it's a long time, maybe over a decade, since I last looked at his web material. A very great man, as you say.

 

[Wyote]

Did you know he had died when you pointed me towards the video? He passed away on Thursday, only a few hours before then. If it was a coincidence it's one of those striking ones, because it's a long time, maybe over a decade, since I last looked at his web material. A very great man, as you say.

I had no idea, found out the following day. Things like this happen to me frequently though. I only recently started revisiting his work again myself as well.

 

[John K]

I had no idea, found out the following day. Things like this happen to me frequently though. I only recently started revisiting his work again myself as well.

Well it does feel like he's giving his approval

 

[Wyote]

Well it does feel like he's giving his approval

 

[Skarekrow]

Without interfering much here... (I enjoy this alot especially between you two @John K @Skarekrow ^^) ..I just need to say:
you are just great, Skarekrow. I don't mean to flatter.. but to show my honest appreciation for what you say and do! ♡ ❍



This brings me back to the time why I liked the book "Drawing with the Right Side of the Brain" so much.
(My former design study colleges didn't really understand my appreciation for this approach on drawing and painting.. but I understand what happened there much better now.. it's funny.)

"Twin skills and their transfer: L-mode and R-mode
Thus, in a sense, reading and drawing might be thought of as a twin skill: verbal, analytical L-mode skills as a major function of the left brain, and visual, perceptual R-mode skills as a major function of the right brain.
[...]

Language dominates
[...]
The right hemisphere exists in the moment, in a timeless, implicit world, where things are buried in context, and complicated outlooks are constantly changing. Impatient with the right hemisphere's view of the complex whole, the competitive left hemisphere tends to jump quickly into a task, bringing language to bear, even though it may be unsuited to that particular task.
[...]
When writing the original book, I needed to find a way to keep this from happening - a way to enable the right hemisphere to "come forward" to draw. This required finding a strategy to set aside the left hemisphere. Taking my cue from Upside-Down Drawing, and thinking hard, I laboriously arrived at a solution and stated it this way:

In order to gain access to the right hemisphere, it is necessary to present the left hemisphere with a task that will turn down."​

[...]"​

I have this one really strong memory of perceiving a zen moment while drawing with wax crayons as a kid (very artistically underrated and pleasing Se activity btw)..that I can't NOT think of as spiritual experience.
Now... this isn't quite a very popular view in most contexts I've wandered... but still I thought I might just throw this in.

Very cool post....thank you!
I am not worthy, but your kind words are much appreciated.
It was because you were in a present state of being...that is how kids can play for hours by themselves sometimes...they are totally engrossed in “now” as opposed to us adults who are often lost in the past or future.
Kids can be fully present...and that is where you find that peace that people call the “flow state”.
So it isn’t so strange to think that.
Thanks again...you’re too kind!

John, thank you as well.
Very thoughtful.

 

[Impact Character]

I am not worthy, but your kind words are much appreciated.

well, skare.. you are nice to everyone else.. and the nice part about sharing is, it goes both ways.. especially when everyone else knows the notion of not being worthy at all. (why is it that the word is so obsessed with telling the truth and being blunt.. usually in correcting something wrong or bad.. but when it comes to pointing out the good and nice...it always falls back. - ...yes, rhetorically speaking... ..)

It was because you were in a present state of being...that is how kids can play for hour by themselves sometimes...they are totally engrossed in “now” as opposed to us adults who are often lost in the past or future.
Kids can be fully present...and that is where you find that peace that people call the “flow state”.

The thing is.. (and I hope I am not leeping thought gaps again) ..I believe it's a pretty good starting point for meditation. In times when the concept of being "adult" or "mature" is too stagnant it might be very helpful to reconnect with the ability everyone already showed splendidly in the beginning of their lives...(as in "you have been there before") or in other words.. the inner child ("it's still a part of you if you listen to it"). If you mix in maybe an repetitive activity (drawing only one basic form, repeating a phrase, chanting.. and so on), maybe even in a playful way, to let go of the troubled loud side and reach flow... you ..can.. go beyond something partially similar to daydreaming seamlessly..

 

[Skarekrow]

well, skare.. you are nice to everyone else.. and the nice part about sharing is, it goes both ways.. especially when everyone else knows the notion of not being worthy at all. (why is it that the word is so obsessed with telling the truth and being blunt.. usually in correcting something wrong or bad.. but when it comes to pointing out the good and nice...it always falls back. - ...yes, rhetorically speaking... ..)


The thing is.. (and I hope I am not leeping thought gaps again) ..I believe it's a pretty good starting point for meditation. In times when the concept of being "adult" or "mature" is too stagnant it might be very helpful to reconnect with the ability everyone already showed splendidly in the beginning of their lives...(as in "you have been there before") or in other words.. the inner child ("it's still a part of you if you listen to it"). If you mix in maybe an repetitive activity (drawing only one basic form, repeating a phrase, chanting.. and so on), maybe even in a playful way, to let go of the troubled loud side and reach flow... you ..can.. go beyond something partially similar to daydreaming seamlessly..

INFJs just can’t take a compliment - you know that.
Okay okay...you’re right, thank you very much, you are very kind...self-criticism has been set aside.
hahaha

It is absolutely a good starting place...they have all those adult coloring books now...I think that is a fine way to meditate.
You could even knit or cross-stitch, or some people go jogging as meditation, yoga, etc...there are many things that can be used to find that state of mind, it’s finding what works for you and then making a daily habit of it imo.
As for as connecting to the inner child, and speaking of being overly self-critical sometimes^^^...I think you are right, and that it can be incredibly helpful to see things from that perspective sometimes.
It can especially be effective when you are getting down on yourself, it helps to ask yourself - Would you speak to a child version of yourself that way?
Also as you suggested just finding that childlike ability to be present and in the flow...the zone...etc. can be most helpful.
It’s the same idea with mandala...or chanting as you suggested.
All ways to remain present...all ways to be in a more peaceful and receptive state of mind.
Thank you for your insights!
Much love!

 

[JennyDaniella]

they have all those adult coloring books now...I think that is a fine way to meditate.

I have always wanted to start coloring again. I know when I was younger I absolutely loved it and I felt so calm and focused.

Might start back on it again.

 

[Skarekrow]

I have always wanted to start coloring again. I know when I was younger I absolutely loved it and I felt so calm and focused.

Might start back on it again.

I have one I never started, it’s all yours...just swing by later and grab it.
(I really do)
lol

 

[JennyDaniella]

I have one I never started, it’s all yours...just swing by later and grab it.
(I really do)
lol

It's mine? Yayyyyy! haha

 

[Impact Character]

*giggles*
for the sake of the topic..!

free coloring pages:

abstract images and more

floral Mandala

children series (for the nostalgia)
-> Halloween themes

​

have an infj wave of agape!
(skare gets one extra )

 

[Impact Character]

I could imagine using appropriate texts, pictures or even music clips in place of scripture [...]

(in regards of any kind of centering exercise..) or concentrating on breathing and couple it on imagination exercise (as mentioned before) like imagining breath as some golden light ..

.. feeling/sensing ("embracing") abstract imagery and meaning.. almost like hearing colors.. sensing letters.. listening to books..
or to say it carefully.. some kind of..spiritual synaesthetics... ... and fully surrender to this experience.. (in a version of the Magic Circle..and a place of releasing resistance)

Spoiler

What I find most intriguing is the perspective on any experience..


There is a place where one's body doesn't differ between real, narrative or virtual experiences..(then there is placebo as well.. and we can learn from watching other as well as from our own experience.. with the nice help of mirroring neurons..)

I've spent some time on videogames.. methods of First Person and Third Person Perspective.. what it feels like (yourself = the space around you) when you play a game in this or that perspective in a virtual world within an avatar.. (some concepts that we know in the field of art..questioning the position of the viewer and spatial aspects)..

Healing with videogames and experiencing virtual spaces (.. like overcoming fears of heights).. and with using cinematic concepts in creating third person perspectives in imagination exercises (up to creating personas to overcome phobias or other strong feelings/reactions)...

Maybe sometime...designing flow experiences.... or even crafting self-induced/combined first+third perspectives... (not just a holo deck..although that might be pretty neat, too ) ..and exploring once more the meaning of storytelling and the choice of words and narrator within this..

 

[John K]

There is a place where one's body doesn't differ between real, narrative or virtual experiences..

The worlds come and go, sometimes this, sometimes that - they can be chosen, but they can draw us in unbidden too. There is your world and my world and their world, and all the might-be worlds and all the probably-is worlds and all the fantasy worlds and they spin in a bewildering, glorious, tragic cascade of light and darkness. There is one world where nothing is real except what is at each of our centres and ... some other thing I can "see" but can't put into words, but which overwhelms me. This world makes all the others real - and the adventure filled with purpose.

There seem to be so many people who only live in one world - it's so sad ....