marriage advice from infjs

[Blind Bandit]

let's remember that he broke her trust first and what she did was an emotional reaction that may have been perfectly justified. people are saying "don't judge" but they are in fact judging the OP.

while typing has helped me a lot i'm also a bit tired of infj glorification. fine, we're special, but we are what we are, and we are also capable of being truly horrible.

I never said we where perfect. But the OP is using Fi to look at what she wants. I'm trying to look at what he wants as we don't have his side. Fi vs Fe here. She is perfectly within her right to be mad. But if she wants this marriage to continue she has work through all these feelings. He can't come back and make things work when she is still angry at him. Or he at her. He is obviously insulating himself against hurt. And he seems to have trouble processing all of this.

I honestly don't know if things can be fixed. These emotions have to be cast off before any real moves forward can be made. And as its been 18 months that might simply be too long. I'm not sure, but I'm sure it will take a lot of work on both sides. And the issues that have happened can't continually be brought up later on or any progress made will simply be for not.

Blind Bandit

Thank you so much for putting yourself across in such a caring way. I don't feel I am explaining myself very well. I can forget the original problem/s, if he can - absolutely, although it isn't as simple as that as it is an ongoing problem for him. However if I come across as unforgiving it is because I cannot forgive this 'person' he has become. I could not love this 'shadow' persona, if it is one, that is why I am on here. I believe in marriage being forever, especially one such as ours was and I think it is futility to 'move on', my children would be devastated and besides my husband is such a part of my I cannot ever 'move on' (how i hate that phrase!). I feel IF we could get through this our relationship would be even better, others manage it. Thank you for your great insight, it helps such a lot, you just have no idea how much.

No problem I know this is hard. I've seen several divorces and no one wins its just who loses less.

But you must deal with this. Look at what I've bolded. You must realize that he is coping, granted poorly and thats only human. You can't expect him to be perfect. I think by admitting your both human you can better move past this issue. You have to forgive all the issues. Because otherwise this problem will fester and result in unrelated problems.

If you truly believe in marriage forever you have to work for it. You both do. You both have to forgive otherwise there is no chance.

 

[80schick]

Invisible, thank you. I think I struggle with the shock of what my infj could do. It was so out of character for him and truly awful. I can be wounding and hateful in my words when hurt and angry but I could never act in the ways he has and I think this has shocked me but guess what??? I think he has totally shocked himself!!! He said "I cannot be the person I thought I was as he would never have acted as I have" which leads me to think he is in internal chaos. Obviously he is and I feel his putting off the divorce is his way of saying "wait, until I am sure of who I am" it's just in my heart I feel sure of who he is, I am connected to him and have been since we were children, I KNOW HIM, he is not bad, he is wonderful. It is just this person he is now and my 'reasoning and logic' go on the evidence which isn't very nice - but my 'heart' tells me he cannot be this person he is acting like now.

 

[80schick]

I will re read my posts and it will help examine my own feelings and motives however this is where I feel I am at. I can forgive that original mistake and I absolutely agree forgiveness is that you do not bring things up again or use as a weapon (hateful and I have done it in the past). I can then forgive all he has/has not done since if i thought he was "ill' or not himself. I cannot forgive it if he has walked away from his responsibilities just because he wants a 'new' life which is how it APPEARS. I also feel IF we talk with the correct attitude and coming from a loving place of reconciliation then a lot of healing will take place naturally. However, it was more insight on what he is thinking I need really as I am not able to understand his behaviour. As for my indiscretion, it is in my view a stupid 'mid life' thing that I didn't even see coming because of the age gap and would never have allowed to happen if it had been with someone older, I would have been aware it COULD happen. I think I proved by my actions where my true love and loyalty lay. In any case it is two years since that began and it pales into insignificance with time, obviously not to my husband, understandably. To be honest, no matter how I try I will always have a love for the boy. I realise many will think that awful but I am very sorry, once I love I cannot lose it although I can control my actions and I have proved that and have had no contact with this lad for 16 months - none whatsoever. It was a four month blip in my life that I was too naive to see and my heart ruled my head and once I knew, and him, to his credit what we were dealing with, there was no question my marriage would be broken for it. However, emotional affairs are just as damaging as physical - I have learned to my cost. I have shocked myself with this because up until then my husband, friends and family all said loyalty was my most outstanding quality. Do we ever know what our hearts are capable of??? It is why we cannot judge others.

 

[The Jester]

I cannot forgive it if he has walked away from his responsibilities just because he wants a 'new' life which is how it APPEARS.

I thought you forced him to have a new life.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I thought you forced him to have a new life.

Yes we must examine this. You stated you pushed him out away from you. You need to understand he may have come to the understanding that you don't want him back so he's trying to pick his life back up and move on. You need to be accountable for you actions as well as his. If you can't forgive him how do you expect him to forgive you and for kicking him out. How would you feel if the opposite would have happened and what would you want? How much would that hurt you if he simply told you to leave. No matter how sorry you were. Wouldn't that simply tear your heart into pieces? Wouldn't you go crazy with pain, and sadness and do something anything to stop hurting like that?

 

[Bird]

It's hard to go back to someone who hurt you.
Who abandoned you.

 

[80schick]

Of course I would be upset if I was thrown out without being able to explain or even having the chance to, in fact upset doesn't even cove how I would feel, but, two things

a) he knew how I felt about what he was involved with and we had spoken of it many times. He knew it would be the end of our marriage when he got involved with it. Also, he hates it himself and would be against anyone involved in it. In fact he had to discipline someone at work for it, they got the sack. It went against his own values and views, he hates it and the effects it. He knew he would be out and he didn't even feel he had the right to ask for a second chance. Initially he was very grateful I had.


b)we have been back together since then, not "living" permanently but on and off and for many months, 9 after the initial separation, we were very close so he seemed to have accepted that I had thrown him out and taken him back, it seemed he had forgiven and understood why I had done that.

Please understand, my whole 'life' as I thought it to be had been a lie and I reacted hastily and emotionally. Surely that is human.

When he says "I will never forgive you threw me out" he does not, i feel, mean that in itself but that it has led to a whole chain of events he wishes had never occurred. His life would have carried on as it had if I had not done so. He would not have fallen to pieces etc become this man. However, I could say, if he had never got involved in what he was THEN our whole lives would be intact and loving and true. How far do you go back and it is pointless. We have to deal with where and what we are now. His view has always been that you do not divorce that you work, work, work on relationships, now it seems he doesn't even care, yet I know it cannot be as it seems because he is unstable and may I add that by abandoning his family he now has no relationships, he would say himself I was his only friend. That is his view, to me he has friends but he would not view them as such, I think to an infj a 'friend' is something cherished and deep before they would call it that. So he has only short acquaintances in his life, how is that fulfilling for an infj? Also if he says we were 'one' can he just forget me and move on. We have been together since we were 15! He had never had a girlfriend before that, despite being GORGEOUS and he maintains he has NEVER had feelings for another woman ever in his life nor wanted to be with one, only could he say he would find women physically attractive but he says sleeping around, casually, would 'darken his soul' and he is 'not equipped for it'. His mother, on finding out we had split said it did not enter her head it would be another woman because it is 'not him' and he is too much a part of me. I don't even get on with his mum so it wasn't for me she said it!! His behaviour seems so contradictory now and if this is his personality as even others observe it what are the chances there is someone else. He repeatedly told me for months and months that he would NEVER love again other than me and he seemed convinced of it, although now he says you cannot say 'never' about anything because he 'never' thought we could split! It is so sad. We seem stuck yet we want out, cannot find a way while he doesn't even appear to be himself.

Thanks again for giving your time. It is so very kind

 

[Blind Bandit]

Of course I would be upset if I was thrown out without being able to explain or even having the chance to, in fact upset doesn't even cove how I would feel, but, two things

a) he knew how I felt about what he was involved with and we had spoken of it many times. He knew it would be the end of our marriage when he got involved with it. Also, he hates it himself and would be against anyone involved in it. In fact he had to discipline someone at work for it, they got the sack. It went against his own values and views, he hates it and the effects it. He knew he would be out and he didn't even feel he had the right to ask for a second chance. Initially he was very grateful I had.


b)we have been back together since then, not "living" permanently but on and off and for many months, 9 after the initial separation, we were very close so he seemed to have accepted that I had thrown him out and taken him back, it seemed he had forgiven and understood why I had done that.

Please understand, my whole 'life' as I thought it to be had been a lie and I reacted hastily and emotionally. Surely that is human.

When he says "I will never forgive you threw me out" he does not, i feel, mean that in itself but that it has led to a whole chain of events he wishes had never occurred. His life would have carried on as it had if I had not done so. He would not have fallen to pieces etc become this man. However, I could say, if he had never got involved in what he was THEN our whole lives would be intact and loving and true. How far do you go back and it is pointless. We have to deal with where and what we are now. His view has always been that you do not divorce that you work, work, work on relationships, now it seems he doesn't even care, yet I know it cannot be as it seems because he is unstable and may I add that by abandoning his family he now has no relationships, he would say himself I was his only friend. That is his view, to me he has friends but he would not view them as such, I think to an infj a 'friend' is something cherished and deep before they would call it that. So he has only short acquaintances in his life, how is that fulfilling for an infj? Also if he says we were 'one' can he just forget me and move on. We have been together since we were 15! He had never had a girlfriend before that, despite being GORGEOUS and he maintains he has NEVER had feelings for another woman ever in his life nor wanted to be with one, only could he say he would find women physically attractive but he says sleeping around, casually, would 'darken his soul' and he is 'not equipped for it'. His mother, on finding out we had split said it did not enter her head it would be another woman because it is 'not him' and he is too much a part of me. I don't even get on with his mum so it wasn't for me she said it!! His behaviour seems so contradictory now and if this is his personality as even others observe it what are the chances there is someone else. He repeatedly told me for months and months that he would NEVER love again other than me and he seemed convinced of it, although now he says you cannot say 'never' about anything because he 'never' thought we could split! It is so sad. We seem stuck yet we want out, cannot find a way while he doesn't even appear to be himself.

Thanks again for giving your time. It is so very kind

You need to hear this.

I hear a lot about him. Granted I understand your focus on him. But you need to put yourself in the spotlight as well. I know you must think I'm being unfair but I'm not. Your only looking at what he has done. He made a mistakes granted a big one. And from what your saying you have no intention of forgiving him or making this work. Its very clear to me that you have closed this case.

Your looking to support your judgment and vent. And possible find out why it happened from other INFJs. You even go fair as to not forgive him for being in his shadow mode when you kicked him out. And then assume he left you all while he was forced out. If you want this marriage to work you need to be real with yourself. For someone who wants this marriage to work your not working on it. You want your husband to do his part. Which he should. But he isn't the only who must mend the burnt bridges here. He can't simply come back to you. If you won't go back to him. As I've already said you must deal with these emotions. Because eventually he will not even hear of getting back together. He will simply close off his heart. And I can't blame him. So either end this and stop hurting each other. Or put your self under the microscope and understand a marriage takes two to work, fix and even break. You must deal with your role in this problem. You must deal with your mistakes as well as his.

I can tell you right now. I can understand why he didn't tell you. You expect him to never falter and he probably knew this. You say you want to forgive him but your doing nothing to move on. Its clear to me your refusing to see his side or your own involvement. Until you can do this there is no chance.

Is this love worth working for or not?

 

[Norwich]

My husband and I will be celebrating our nineteenth wedding anniversary next week. In that time we've both revealed some less than pleasant aspects of our character. From what you've said, it sounds like your husband is struggling with an addiction that he is very ashamed of. Even though he doesn't like this about himself, ultimately he still wishes that someone could love him unconditionally. His desire to no longer be a hypocrite may be prompting him to do things that normally would be out of character. In his situation, I can imagine I would have an attitude of "why the hell not." If I was still partaking in an addiction in an attempt to medicate my feelings, it would only compound this attitude. I would be close to inconsolable, if I had compromised my integrity by being dishonest with myself and the one I've loved beyond all else for over half my life.

If he is suffering from an addiction he will likely have to deal with the temptation for life. But to feel good about himself he will have to resist the behavior. This probably seems a bit daunting to him. If he was unable to do that when he had your love, how's he supposed to do it now? If you can support him while he battles his addiction, then you are going to have to figure out a way to communicate to him how much you love him. It won't be easy though because he's going to doubt your sincerity. It sounds like he is unable to love himself, so it will be almost inconceivable to him that you can. Best of luck to you. I hope you can find your way back to each other.

 

[80schick]

I cannot see how I am giving the impression I am not forgiving.

Honestly.

I have REPEATEDLY told him I am sorry, I have begged forgiveness, I have told him that if he had acted as I have I would never get over it. I DO forgive him his initial problem, in fact it is insignificant in comparison to how things have gone. HOWEVER, I feel what is unforgivable and painful is that he has walked away and left me with EVERYTHING. He is not taking any responsibility (other than financial) for his children, does not see his daughter and barely his son. He says he cannot cope with it. Well, neither can I but I have no choice. While this has been happening something devastating happened to our daughter and he has ran from that too. Breaking her heart and mine. As regards 'the shadow'. That is why I am on here. I have heard of it but know nothing about it and do not understand it. IF that is what it is then my heart goes out to him completely and I can forgive it. Surely you would not expect me to forgive a man that abandons his responsibilities to his children by seeking a selfish life for himself, thinking only of him? That is how it 'appears'. Again, you misunderstand or I misrepresent. We were over the initial things and back together, sorting them out. He was on the verge of moving back home then he said 'don't take a risk on me' and his behaviour completely changed. This was 9 months in to the separation. He took his ring off although he had paid for it to be resized months before because it was so important to him. As far as I am aware he has told only two people at work we are separated. He is very private. Can I add that he went to North Carolina for work in July for about two weeks. He was obviously emotional being so far away and he emailed telling me that his HR manager and his own manager had taken him into the office and told him that due to his behaviour and performance if he was anyone else he would have the sack by now! He says his guilt is making him treat people at work in a wrong manner and that this issue is much more widespread than just his family. He calls it SHUT DOWN but I don't understand it because when I am under stress my mind goes even faster (and that's fast!!!). I don't understand this 'withdrawal' thing that infjs need and I cannot say I recognise it from my husband. All I can say is that we did things alone together a lot, walking, driving etc always together though. I cannot say he needed to withdraw. As regards 'venting' I would hope not. I am in genuine distress, I do not sleep and I cannot think of anything else, I physically ache, I miss him so much. I do not blame him and try to take responsibility for my actions. If I am not then I do not see it and that is why it is a help if you can see what I miss, but in my heart I am not venting or blaming, pointless, what is to be achieved. I seek understanding. Blame is irrelevant and futile. I want to restore our love or improve it. I guess hurt and pain, while ongoing and in the midst of it is bound to shine through and I will admit to being very emotional and overwhelmed myself. I am dealing with a huge loss and all the practical implications of it, I am dealing with my kids (both of which are introverts) and I find it difficult but I seek to understand. Also, I have lived here 2 years so have no family around me and no history with my friends although they are great, so I have no 'emotional' support that I can really 'vent' too. If I come across this way then I am truly sorry. It is not as I intended and can only say I am intense!!! I know that is extremely irritating. Sorry!

 

[80schick]

Norwich

Yes, thank you. I do understand his problem and would support him - I could never condone nor accept it for various reasons but I accept and support the overwhelming life long battle it would be and the many 'relapses'. He is a human being, as we all are, I accept that though he doesn't seem to accept it himself and no matter what I try he will not let his guard down. He has said many times 'i only want you and i know you are the only girl for me my doubts are that i am the one for you'. Rubbish. I love him and he is amazing (not perfect) in my eyes. He doesn't see or believe it but it is not for want of trying. A few weeks ago I wrote him a letter covering our courtship to present day and all the outstanding things he has done and about all his special qualities. I posted it but heard nothing. I then bought him Andre Agassi Biog (he wanted it) and put in it 'to the world you may be one person but to one person you may be the world' and I got a text thanking me but nothing more. That is just the most recent, I have made c.d's, sent poetry etc but he keeps withdrawing so I don't think it's working. That is why I am on No Contact and have managed 5 weeks but it is killing me slowly. I cannot work out what is happening with in him. I would do anything to work it out but NOT if he doesn't want me. If he wants away than that's it but if it's that I need to prove to him I love him then I will and I have been doing, in the face of hostility and rejection, my friends have said I am a saint and many times they encourage me to divorce him but they don't understand. Love is for life. a piece of paper will not end my connection to him in my soul. I am not a Saint, far from it, I am trying to convey that I have tried. I have also torn him to shreds and criticised him terribly, horrendously. I am hateful with my tongue. It is all from pain and because I want him to see how much he has hurt us but I realise it has made him feel unworthy. It is like, I will say 'i want a divorce' but i DON'T, I say it so he will say 'i love you, i will not do it', but twice now he has said it and it has devastated me because I thought he must hate me and want away. You see the games we play all based on hurt? It is only by stepping back and examining personality typing and psychology in general that I am coming to understand the way we act and why. It is helping me change my behaviour. I only hope it is not too late.

 

[Blind Bandit]

I cannot see how I am giving the impression I am not forgiving.

Honestly.

I have REPEATEDLY told him I am sorry, I have begged forgiveness, I have told him that if he had acted as I have I would never get over it. I DO forgive him his initial problem, in fact it is insignificant in comparison to how things have gone. HOWEVER, I feel what is unforgivable and painful is that he has walked away and left me with EVERYTHING. He is not taking any responsibility (other than financial) for his children, does not see his daughter and barely his son. He says he cannot cope with it. Well, neither can I but I have no choice. While this has been happening something devastating happened to our daughter and he has ran from that too. Breaking her heart and mine. As regards 'the shadow'. That is why I am on here. I have heard of it but know nothing about it and do not understand it. IF that is what it is then my heart goes out to him completely and I can forgive it. Surely you would not expect me to forgive a man that abandons his responsibilities to his children by seeking a selfish life for himself, thinking only of him? That is how it 'appears'. Again, you misunderstand or I misrepresent. We were over the initial things and back together, sorting them out. He was on the verge of moving back home then he said 'don't take a risk on me' and his behaviour completely changed. This was 9 months in to the separation. He took his ring off although he had paid for it to be resized months before because it was so important to him. As far as I am aware he has told only two people at work we are separated. He is very private. Can I add that he went to North Carolina for work in July for about two weeks. He was obviously emotional being so far away and he emailed telling me that his HR manager and his own manager had taken him into the office and told him that due to his behaviour and performance if he was anyone else he would have the sack by now! He says his guilt is making him treat people at work in a wrong manner and that this issue is much more widespread than just his family. He calls it SHUT DOWN but I don't understand it because when I am under stress my mind goes even faster (and that's fast!!!). I don't understand this 'withdrawal' thing that infjs need and I cannot say I recognise it from my husband. All I can say is that we did things alone together a lot, walking, driving etc always together though. I cannot say he needed to withdraw. As regards 'venting' I would hope not. I am in genuine distress, I do not sleep and I cannot think of anything else, I physically ache, I miss him so much. I do not blame him and try to take responsibility for my actions. If I am not then I do not see it and that is why it is a help if you can see what I miss, but in my heart I am not venting or blaming, pointless, what is to be achieved. I seek understanding. Blame is irrelevant and futile. I want to restore our love or improve it. I guess hurt and pain, while ongoing and in the midst of it is bound to shine through and I will admit to being very emotional and overwhelmed myself. I am dealing with a huge loss and all the practical implications of it, I am dealing with my kids (both of which are introverts) and I find it difficult but I seek to understand. Also, I have lived here 2 years so have no family around me and no history with my friends although they are great, so I have no 'emotional' support that I can really 'vent' too. If I come across this way then I am truly sorry. It is not as I intended and can only say I am intense!!! I know that is extremely irritating. Sorry!

You can't say you forgive him and then begrudge him for not being involved. You must completely forgive him and then you can begin to work to restore what you had and not until then. I'm sorry. I know thats not what you want to hear. And you both have made mistakes and thats easy to see but dwelling on them just won't allow any good to come of it and I can't expect either of you to be happy until everything is behind you both.

As for his withdrawal this is a natural introverted trait. Introverts turn inward not outward to process things. They need time to think things through and make sense of them. Introverts remember need the world less than they need a few good people. Or no one at all. They don't get energy from the world at least not unless very specific circumstances are meet. Also keep in mind your functions are different.

Here is the ENFP function order

Dominant: Extraverted Intuition
Auxiliary: Introverted Feeling
Tertiary: Extraverted Thinking
Inferior: Introverted Sensing

Here is the INFJ function order

Dominant: Introverted Intuition
Auxilliary: Extraverted Feeling
Tertiary: Introverted Thinking
Inferior: Extraverted Sensing

As you can see your functions are in the same order but have different I/E tenancies with every step your both trading introversion or extroversion.

So in other words their are going to be some misconceptions and misunderstandings.

And the reason he isn't dealing with these things is probably because he doesn't know how and he is trying to process everything that is going on.

 

[80schick]

Thank you all. I will try to stop posting now as I have said too much and I am too emotional but please leave anything else you feel will help and I will be most grateful.

Thank you

 

[Norwich]

He has said many times 'i only want you and i know you are the only girl for me my doubts are that i am the one for you'.

Yes, it may take an immense amount of reassurance.

And obviously you've been trying.

I love him and he is amazing (not perfect) in my eyes. He doesn't see or believe it but it is not for want of trying. A few weeks ago I wrote him a letter covering our courtship to present day and all the outstanding things he has done and about all his special qualities. I posted it but heard nothing. I then bought him Andre Agassi Biog (he wanted it) and put in it 'to the world you may be one person but to one person you may be the world' and I got a text thanking me but nothing more. That is just the most recent, I have made c.d's, sent poetry etc but he keeps withdrawing so I don't think it's working.

I'm sure it is tremendously difficult to continue to demonstrate this kind of affection when you get back little indication that he feels anything.

Have you ever seen his counselor with him? All those years of living in denial more than likely fueled the notion that no one could ever love him if they knew the truth. On some level he may perceive your declarations as a denial of his true character. If you could talk about his behavior in an safe environment with someone trained to redirect the conversation when it strays in a destructive manner, it may help him to realize that you know him and still love him.

 

[Draconious]

Thank you all. I will try to stop posting now as I have said too much and I am too emotional but please leave anything else you feel will help and I will be most grateful.

Thank you

INFJ I think is a very odd personality mix. With the Introverted Intuition we have this like 6th sense of others true feelings. If our partner says one thing but is feeling something else we have this way of knowing something isn't right. I have studied myself for many many years trying to better understand how I "tick". I have read a great deal of information on INFJ and how they process things and how they think. What I can tell you is a true INFJ is a reserved person that holds things back from others. We are highly emotional individuals and have very generous hearts. For those we love we don't want to have them hurt. So when we make mistakes or do things we shouldn't have we may start to lie because we don't want the one we love to hurt.

INFJ is one of the most trusting types but it comes with a price. Fool me once shame on you Fool me twice and I will never speak to you again. It is as some put it the INFJ Slamming the Door. When we feel deeply betrayed by someone there is no going back that person could rot in hell for all we care. I have learned through personal experience that for those we love at least in my case I put up with more. I had been truly hurt by my parents as a child and my mother whom I deeply loved I forgave and forgave and forgave. For my father who I didn't care so much for I cut him off an didn't speak to him for 15 years. So to me the fact that he is an INFJ and didn't cut you off to me means he truly loves you. Otherwise he would have walked away cut all ties with you and said screw you.

INFJ's are very good at seeing patterns and developing solutions to problems. However there is a very good likelyhood that your husband after everything that happened a switch flipped in his head and his Introverted Intuition is on over drive. He is probably thinking that something else is going to go wrong and that his world is again going to come crashing down. It took me many years to realize this in myself after what happened during my childhood. I kept rethinking every possible outcome and trying to find solutions for them. Imagine you have a math equation with 38 variables. You can somehow control 35 of them but the last 3 no matter what you do you can't. The INFJ when Introverted Intuition is on overdrive is going to start coming up with all possible outcomes and solutions to those for the remaining 3 variables. Some of those outcomes are going to be to the individual catastrophic. This will cause the INFJ huge amounts of stress. To me what you see with him changing is a combination of his Introverted Intution going on overdrive and trying to prevent himself from ever getting hurt again as well as poorly developed extreme stress coping mechanisms.

I don't think that your marriage is a lost cause. It will require work on both your parts. I think your husband is right now a very hurt and damaged person who needs you to be strong, patient, and loving. Most of all he needs to know you will be there for him until the end. You are his anchor that he holds on to. Especially after so many years together without you he is like a person floating on the ocean. He may not realize all these things about himself as it has taken me almost 20 years to truly figure these pieces out.

I hope and pray you stay the course because love conquers all and is the best thing in this world. I hope what I have said makes some sense and helps you out. I wish the both of you long and happy lives. May God bless you both.