[PAX] Mass shooting in an Orlando, Florida nightclub

the said:
But how terrible it would be if they increased their aggressiveness.
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I agree. Once again, where do we go from here? Do we limit more of our own privacy and rights to free speech to feel safer? Again, because I'm a talk radio junkie, I was hearing the director of the FBI saying they cannot charge anyone for having radical views if there is no evidence they plan to carry out something illegal. That's a good thing.. but it didn't work out this time. The root of the problem is so deep. This person was radicalized, and he acted on his own. He pledged allegiance to ISIS just moments before murdering those people. He had no criminal history or anything to implicate him before he went off like a ticking time bomb. How do we stop this? Gun control won't stop it. Sending troops over to blow shit up hasn't and won't stop it. Banning Muslims and Islam won't stop it. These individuals are here already, as this man was a US citizen. How do you fight this kind of enemy without destroying yourself? The whole world is united against them and we can't figure this out.
 
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I think gun control is at least part of the answer. Will a ban on assault weapons prevent shootings. No they won't. Will they slow them down and make them less lethal? Quite possibly.
 
acd said:
I agree. Once again, where do we go from here? Do we limit more of our own privacy and rights to free speech to feel safer? Again, because I'm a talk radio junkie, I was hearing the director of the FBI saying they cannot charge anyone for having radical views if there is no evidence they plan to carry out something illegal. That's a good thing.. but it didn't work out this time. The root of the problem is so deep. This person was radicalized, and he acted on his own. He pledged allegiance to ISIS just moments before murdering those people. He had no criminal history or anything to implicate him before he went off like a ticking time bomb. How do we stop this? Gun control won't stop it. Sending troops over to blow shit up hasn't and won't stop it. Banning Muslims and Islam won't stop it. These individuals are here already, as this man was a US citizen. How do you fight this kind of enemy without destroying yourself?
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Terrorism is just like all crimes. You cant stop them all. We haven't even defeated the KKK yet so how can we defeat ISIS? You'll just have to be ready to take matters into your own hands.
 
Absolutely a result of a lax attitude towards terrorism. While I could say its partially a result of incompetence, thats very difficult when its more of a result of intent.
The American people should be outraged but of course it will be turned into a political sideshow.
People will continue to die until an administration takes terrorism seriously again as well as not helping foster it.
 
the said:
Terrorism is just like all crimes. You cant stop them all. We haven't even defeated the KKK yet so how can we defeat ISIS? You'll just have to be ready to take matters into your own hands.
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KKK, while despicable, aren't terrorists who go out on suicide missions to kill others. This is a totally new and different problem. That's why no one knows what to do. Yet.

What do you mean? Take it in our own hands?
 
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acd said:
KKK, while despicable, aren't terrorists who go out on suicide missions to kill others. This is a totally new and different problem. That's why no one knows what to do. Yet.

What do you mean? Take it in our own hands?
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You are aware of the history of the kkk are you not? They may not have been associated with recent killings but they have been in the past.
People DO know what to do. There is no easy solution that can happen immediately but there is a path. Establishing democracy in the middle east and showing people there are better ways to live ones life. Declaring war, actual war on terrorism and letting terrorists know if they choose that life they will always be looking over their backs. Education. ...
Not striking any type of deal with countries that support terrorism and not supporting any candidate that would.
 
Based on what I read about this guy that committed the shootings he has been unstable and fucked up for a long time. I read some statements by his ex wife who said initially he was normal but then suddenly turned on her and beat the shit out of her all the time. Her parents had to come down and rescue her and leave all of her possessions behind and she never looked back. Now here we are.

It's easy to blame religion when we keep seeing examples of extremism in the news causing death and destruction but there is something in these people that gets attracted to that level of extremism. It's like getting sucked into Scientology and trying to destroy people's lives... Infiltrating the government, punishing people physically and putting them in isolation, etc. There's Christian violence. There are monks that are violent. There are Muslims that are violent. I read a quote saying it's "not Islam, it's Islamism" which I think is true. Some people simply are attracted to a very specific interpretation that allows them to make their own rules and take actions that most others would not. What can you do? How do you spot vulnerable people who fall into these traps before they commit these acts?

I know people want stricter gun laws, blah blah blah but let's face it... If someone wants to kill people they're going to find a way. If it's not a semi-automatic weapon it'll be a bomb. If it's not a bomb, it will be a fire. If it's not a fire it'll be something else. These people will use whatever tools they have at their disposal and they don't need a gun to do it. It just happens to be a lot easier to get one than it is to build a bomb.

I feel sorry for these people who have died and who have been injured. I think if anything it'll start unifying even those who are homophobic because I think most people feel ISIS is a more appropriate target to hate and this just gives everyone a reason to get on the same page. I just feel bad for Muslims who are not extremists and terrorists. It makes life very hard when all everyone hears about are these horrific shitstorms in the news globally.

I don't think there's a right way to approach the situation and move forward. Everyone has their own ideas about how to react and how to be proactive but not everyone's values are the same.
 
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Eventhorizon said:
You are aware of the history of the kkk are you not? They may not have been associated with recent killings but they have been in the past.
People DO know what to do. There is no easy solution that can happen immediately but there is a path. Establishing democracy in the middle east and showing people there are better ways to live ones life. Declaring war, actual war on terrorism and letting terrorists know if they choose that life they will always be looking over their backs. Education. ...
Not striking any type of deal with countries that support terrorism and not supporting any candidate that would.
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Of course I am aware! I'm not debating the difference between the KKK and ISIS.

How do we establish a path to democracy? Haven't we tried that and failed? We have only succeeded in destabilizing that region, giving rise to ISIS and other terrorist groups.

We declared war on terror a long time ago. There is no battleground. It's ideological. It is an ideological war. People like this guy will continue to pop up around the world. Education is definitely a long term generational solution... if people can become educated before getting murdered or blowing themselves up.
 
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I know people want stricter gun laws, blah blah blah but let's face it... If someone wants to kill people they're going to find a way. If it's not a semi-automatic weapon it'll be a bomb. If it's not a bomb, it will be a fire. If it's not a fire it'll be something else. These people will use whatever tools they have at their disposal and they don't need a gun to do it. It just happens to be a lot easier to get one than it is to build a bomb.
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Yes and their easy availability is a part of the problem. Guns (specifically semi-automatic ones) are too easy to get. The second issue issues is that semi-automatic weapons is that are really, really good at what they were designed to do, kill many, many people in a short period of time.

Yes people can find a way to kill others if they want to. They can stab people for example. The issue is that stabbing people takes time. They can build a fire but this takes time and people can escape, they can build a bomb but this is harder. There are few methods as quick and effective at killing people in a short period of time than a semi-automatic weapon. This is the reality and all the arguments that I have heard from those who oppose gun control has said anything to contradict this reality.

"Mass shootings are not uniquely American. What is uniquely American is a determination to do nothing about them." _David Frum
 
I'm blaming religion because it has taken the weaker human minds and turned them into self-righteous people that wish to do wicked things whilst thinking their actions are for a just cause. That's exactly the definition of an ideology, and Islam is one of such ideologies that promotes this outbreak of barbarism. They will tear down our civilization if they have to, and using the weaker minds is their cheap and easy option for overseas operations against gays, women, non-believers and anyone else Muhammad didn't want infecting their perfect Islamic society dominated by Sharia. This shit is so fucking obvious that I sometimes feel embarrassed to have to mention it to supposedly informed people. But let's continue to undermine the role of religion of these mass murdering groups, let's (once again) turn our attention to the KKK and the horrific and mysterious killers they have under their wings. -__-
 
acd said:
KKK, while despicable, aren't terrorists who go out on suicide missions to kill others. This is a totally new and different problem. That's why no one knows what to do. Yet.

What do you mean? Take it in our own hands?
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Its not totally new and different. There have been suicide bombers before, I believe the kamikaze pilots were so natured. Im saying the world is a dangerous place and we need to be empowered to take matters into our own hands as citizens.
 
SpecialEdition said:
Based on what I read about this guy that committed the shootings he has been unstable and fucked up for a long time. I read some statements by his ex wife who said initially he was normal but then suddenly turned on her and beat the shit out of her all the time. Her parents had to come down and rescue her and leave all of her possessions behind and she never looked back. Now here we are.

It's easy to blame religion when we keep seeing examples of extremism in the news causing death and destruction but there is something in these people that gets attracted to that level of extremism. It's like getting sucked into Scientology and trying to destroy people's lives... Infiltrating the government, punishing people physically and putting them in isolation, etc. There's Christian violence. There are monks that are violent. There are Muslims that are violent. I read a quote saying it's "not Islam, it's Islamism" which I think is true. Some people simply are attracted to a very specific interpretation that allows them to make their own rules and take actions that most others would not. What can you do? How do you spot vulnerable people who fall into these traps before they commit these acts?

I know people want stricter gun laws, blah blah blah but let's face it... If someone wants to kill people they're going to find a way. If it's not a semi-automatic weapon it'll be a bomb. If it's not a bomb, it will be a fire. If it's not a fire it'll be something else. These people will use whatever tools they have at their disposal and they don't need a gun to do it. It just happens to be a lot easier to get one than it is to build a bomb.

I feel sorry for these people who have died and who have been injured. I think if anything it'll start unifying even those who are homophobic because I think most people feel ISIS is a more appropriate target to hate and this just gives everyone a reason to get on the same page. I just feel bad for Muslims who are not extremists and terrorists. It makes life very hard when all everyone hears about are these horrific shitstorms in the news globally.

I don't think there's a right way to approach the situation and move forward. Everyone has their own ideas about how to react and how to be proactive but not everyone's values are the same.
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Thats true, if its not a gun then its a truck of fertilizer. Anything can be used as a weapon, McGyver taught us that.
 
But how are the Muslims doing? I know some people said some mean things on twitter and facebook. They really need our support right now.
 
JJJA said:
I'm blaming religion because it has taken the weaker human minds and turned them into self-righteous people that wish to do wicked things whilst thinking their actions are for a just cause. That's exactly the definition of an ideology, and Islam is one of such ideologies that promotes this outbreak of barbarism. They will tear down our civilization if they have to, and using the weaker minds is their cheap and easy option for overseas operations against gays, women, non-believers and anyone else Muhammad didn't want infecting their perfect Islamic society dominated by Sharia. This shit is so fucking obvious that I sometimes feel embarrassed to have to mention it to supposedly informed people. But let's continue to undermine the role of religion of these mass murdering groups, let's (once again) turn our attention to the KKK and the horrific and mysterious killers they have under their wings. -__-
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I know quite a few Muslims who, when they hear about these terrorist attacks, are just as shattered as everyone else. Please please don't hate innocent people, because by doing this you're just giving them what they want. Terrorism is meant to make people afraid. But we can't be afraid and we can't turn against one another. Turn your anger to those committing these horrible evils, but don't generalise. You're right, a lot of people who claim to follow Islam end up doing these things, but that doesn't mean that everyone that follow that religion are corrupt, or that that religion is corrupt. Did you know it says in the Quran that those who follow it are not supposed to turn away their enemy from their house when they don't have a place to stay?

Turning on a group, religion, etc is exactly what they are doing. We cannot do that. That's not right, and that's not fair. There are so many amazing Muslims out there who have the same fears and maybe even greater fears than those of us who aren't Muslim- because they have to deal with the people who think they're all suicide bombers.
 
SpecialEdition said:
Based on what I read about this guy that committed the shootings he has been unstable and fucked up for a long time. I read some statements by his ex wife who said initially he was normal but then suddenly turned on her and beat the shit out of her all the time. Her parents had to come down and rescue her and leave all of her possessions behind and she never looked back. Now here we are.

It's easy to blame religion when we keep seeing examples of extremism in the news causing death and destruction but there is something in these people that gets attracted to that level of extremism. It's like getting sucked into Scientology and trying to destroy people's lives... Infiltrating the government, punishing people physically and putting them in isolation, etc. There's Christian violence. There are monks that are violent. There are Muslims that are violent. I read a quote saying it's "not Islam, it's Islamism" which I think is true. Some people simply are attracted to a very specific interpretation that allows them to make their own rules and take actions that most others would not. What can you do? How do you spot vulnerable people who fall into these traps before they commit these acts?

I know people want stricter gun laws, blah blah blah but let's face it... If someone wants to kill people they're going to find a way. If it's not a semi-automatic weapon it'll be a bomb. If it's not a bomb, it will be a fire. If it's not a fire it'll be something else. These people will use whatever tools they have at their disposal and they don't need a gun to do it. It just happens to be a lot easier to get one than it is to build a bomb.

I feel sorry for these people who have died and who have been injured. I think if anything it'll start unifying even those who are homophobic because I think most people feel ISIS is a more appropriate target to hate and this just gives everyone a reason to get on the same page. I just feel bad for Muslims who are not extremists and terrorists. It makes life very hard when all everyone hears about are these horrific shitstorms in the news globally.

I don't think there's a right way to approach the situation and move forward. Everyone has their own ideas about how to react and how to be proactive but not everyone's values are the same.
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I think you should be some type of forum advisor.
 
Hoodie said:
I know quite a few Muslims who, when they hear about these terrorist attacks, are just as shattered as everyone else. Please please don't hate innocent people, because by doing this you're just giving them what they want. Terrorism is meant to make people afraid. But we can't be afraid and we can't turn against one another. Turn your anger to those committing these horrible evils, but don't generalise. You're right, a lot of people who claim to follow Islam end up doing these things, but that doesn't mean that everyone that follow that religion are corrupt, or that that religion is corrupt. Did you know it says in the Quran that those who follow it are not supposed to turn away their enemy from their house when they don't have a place to stay?

Turning on a group, religion, etc is exactly what they are doing. We cannot do that. That's not right, and that's not fair. There are so many amazing Muslims out there who have the same fears and maybe even greater fears than those of us who aren't Muslim- because they have to deal with the people who think they're all suicide bombers.
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Please answer me this: how is criticizing and blaming an ideology 'generalising'? I have never blamed individuals, other than the perpetraitors. I have never blamed all Muslims. I'll continue to criticise terrible ideas. I'm sick and tired of religiously-inspired bullying and intimidation, and people demanding that I 'respect' religion. They are flawed ideas just as any others are, and are completely open to criticism. Denying and deflecting this criticism is exactly what creates intolerant societies because self-criticism is negated through continued denial in discussions, and you certainly don't speak for tolerance with such a passive-aggressive message.

I can't believe you actually just tried to put me in the same category as these murderers. For shame. You should know better than to resort to conclusions so low and deliberately misleading.
 
JJJA said:
I'm blaming religion because it has taken the weaker human minds and turned them into self-righteous people that wish to do wicked things whilst thinking their actions are for a just cause. That's exactly the definition of an ideology, and Islam is one of such ideologies that promotes this outbreak of barbarism. They will tear down our civilization if they have to, and using the weaker minds is their cheap and easy option for overseas operations against gays, women, non-believers and anyone else Muhammad didn't want infecting their perfect Islamic society dominated by Sharia. This shit is so fucking obvious that I sometimes feel embarrassed to have to mention it to supposedly informed people. But let's continue to undermine the role of religion of these mass murdering groups, let's (once again) turn our attention to the KKK and the horrific and mysterious killers they have under their wings. -__-
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I do not have love for religion but I do recognize that for some people its an easier way to come to terms with their existence. Religion just like anything really can be used and manipulated to get to whatever end you like. If people want (and they do) they could use science for the same.
I think most of it is just a means to an end for what people already want to do.
 
JJJA said:
I'm blaming religion because it has taken the weaker human minds and turned them into self-righteous people that wish to do wicked things whilst thinking their actions are for a just cause. That's exactly the definition of an ideology, and Islam is one of such ideologies that promotes this outbreak of barbarism. They will tear down our civilization if they have to, and using the weaker minds is their cheap and easy option for overseas operations against gays, women, non-believers and anyone else Muhammad didn't want infecting their perfect Islamic society dominated by Sharia. This shit is so fucking obvious that I sometimes feel embarrassed to have to mention it to supposedly informed people. But let's continue to undermine the role of religion of these mass murdering groups, let's (once again) turn our attention to the KKK and the horrific and mysterious killers they have under their wings. -__-
Click to expand...

I do not have love for religion but I do recognize that for some people its an easier way to come to terms with their existence. Religion just like anything really can be used and manipulated to get to whatever end you like. If people want (and they do) they could use science for the same.
I think most of it is just a means to an end for what people already want to do.
 
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