Massacre in Syria
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muir
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[video=youtube;l8rOzBsHiT8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8rOzBsHiT8[/video]
"Masters Of War" Bob Dylan
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
"Masters Of War" Bob Dylan
Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks.
You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly.
Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain.
You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud.
You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins.
How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do.
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.
And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead.
Last edited:
muir
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People have been singing out against the military industrial complex for decades but they're still getting away with their tricks!
This time though the awareness is growing globally and the internet is providing a means to organise
They have been steadily centralising their power more and more with each crisis that they create and you can be sure that they will seek to centralise it even more with this current economic crisis but as Eisenhower said 'only an alert and knowledgable citizenry' can oppose them
This time though the awareness is growing globally and the internet is providing a means to organise
They have been steadily centralising their power more and more with each crisis that they create and you can be sure that they will seek to centralise it even more with this current economic crisis but as Eisenhower said 'only an alert and knowledgable citizenry' can oppose them
Kryptonite
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Has anyone considered that maybe the public should be kept quiet, or at least prevented from instigating more violence? Civillians should never be fair game, but that doesn't translate to removing Assad from power. The rebels winning isn't always the best outcome, and in this case I believe the rebels wining would be a disaster for the middle east.
Just like with Iraq, you remove Saddam, a largely secular dictator, and once he is gone the country is plunged into sectarian violence waged by the fanatics Saddam largely kept in check as he himself was a member of the Sunni minority. I think it is inevitable that Iraq become much like Iran at some point in the future precisely because the West continues to manipulate Middle-Eastern affairs against the well being of the people who actually live in the region. The entire crisis with Iran trying to get Nuclear weapons can be traced to the Iraq war. Iran would never have been able to get away with a nuclear weapons program if Iraq was never invaded, as long time enemies, Iraq under Saddam would have never allowed Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. By invading Iraq we completely upset the balance of power in the Middle-East, and now we have people clamoring for yet again, another war, this time with Iran. What the U.S. has done is tipped the first domino and is now trying to stop the rest from falling, you can't have it both ways. You can't achieve a lasting peace through more war.
This country sat and watched hundreds of thousands die in African genocide, does anyone wonder why it is that we are interested in a small number Syrian innocents killed, but turn a blind eye to hundreds of thousands of Africans being killed? It's because Africa serves no purpose in this government's vision of future interests, and no purpose for lobbying groups such as AIPAC. I think the U.S. military is sadly being used as a a type of snow plow to pave the way for an exclusive Israeli dominance in the region for decades to come, and to bring the governments of invaded countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan (perhaps Syria soon) under the umbrella of western financiers.
This is why I think looking to Russia in this situation is helpful. They are interested in maintaining the status quo and a balance of power in the middle east, partly so they do not lose their one base in Syria. The West is establishing this trend, that if you are anti-establishment and are violent enough, they will support you with more violence to overthrow the establishment without regard for who is in a better position to be in leadership. How will this ever lead to peace? It won't, it is straight out of 1984, "War is Peace."
I think people sometimes think it's trendy and fashionable to support the rebels, without figuring out what these rebels stand for. I get the feeling pro-rebel and anti-establishment people would have been caught up in the romanticism of the Beer Hall Putsch had they been around during that time. All the more reason to examine both sides, and I am confident the rebels gaining power would be disastrous.
Just like with Iraq, you remove Saddam, a largely secular dictator, and once he is gone the country is plunged into sectarian violence waged by the fanatics Saddam largely kept in check as he himself was a member of the Sunni minority. I think it is inevitable that Iraq become much like Iran at some point in the future precisely because the West continues to manipulate Middle-Eastern affairs against the well being of the people who actually live in the region. The entire crisis with Iran trying to get Nuclear weapons can be traced to the Iraq war. Iran would never have been able to get away with a nuclear weapons program if Iraq was never invaded, as long time enemies, Iraq under Saddam would have never allowed Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. By invading Iraq we completely upset the balance of power in the Middle-East, and now we have people clamoring for yet again, another war, this time with Iran. What the U.S. has done is tipped the first domino and is now trying to stop the rest from falling, you can't have it both ways. You can't achieve a lasting peace through more war.
This country sat and watched hundreds of thousands die in African genocide, does anyone wonder why it is that we are interested in a small number Syrian innocents killed, but turn a blind eye to hundreds of thousands of Africans being killed? It's because Africa serves no purpose in this government's vision of future interests, and no purpose for lobbying groups such as AIPAC. I think the U.S. military is sadly being used as a a type of snow plow to pave the way for an exclusive Israeli dominance in the region for decades to come, and to bring the governments of invaded countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan (perhaps Syria soon) under the umbrella of western financiers.
This is why I think looking to Russia in this situation is helpful. They are interested in maintaining the status quo and a balance of power in the middle east, partly so they do not lose their one base in Syria. The West is establishing this trend, that if you are anti-establishment and are violent enough, they will support you with more violence to overthrow the establishment without regard for who is in a better position to be in leadership. How will this ever lead to peace? It won't, it is straight out of 1984, "War is Peace."
I think people sometimes think it's trendy and fashionable to support the rebels, without figuring out what these rebels stand for. I get the feeling pro-rebel and anti-establishment people would have been caught up in the romanticism of the Beer Hall Putsch had they been around during that time. All the more reason to examine both sides, and I am confident the rebels gaining power would be disastrous.
muir
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Yeah the cold war is still raging but it is fought through proxy wars. Major powers like the US, China and Russia are using poorer nations (without nukes to defend themselves with) as the battlegrounds for their war games while the financiers that Kryptonite mentioned are profiteering from the death and destruction
I want to make it clear justme that i'm not taking sides here....i am not saying i support east against west. I think the forces on both the east and the west are both lead by oppressive power elites but its the people who are always caught in the middle and pay the price and it is the people (both east and west) who i support
But what i'm saying is that the oppressive power elites of the east are not really our current responsibility as citizens of the west. I think what we need to be focussed on is sorting out our own corrupt leadership before we go meddling with the leadership of other countries.
If you look at sheer numbers of people killed and maimed due to decisions by leaders then the western leaders such as Bush, Obama and Blair are overwhelmingly far worse war criminals than Gaddafi, Hussein or Assad
It only seems like they are not because the western corporate media constantly paints a different skewed version of reality. The corporate media is merely one aspect of the western power elite. They have interests in oil, weapons manufacturing, big pharma and banking.
It is natural to suppose that an elite who want to maintain a position of authority would seek to control as many aspects of society as they possibly could and they have done so
We have to realise that behind these wars are the same bankers who are imposing austerity measures on us. It is all part of the same thing.
If we want an end to violence the answer is not in attacking other countries but in the people of the west takling power back from the corrupt power elite.
Our struggle is not without as the corporate media would tell us but within our own countries. The west needs to do some serious self reflection before it judges other countries
Imagine if we managed to tackle our own leadership so that we could create a happier and healthier, more balanced and more democratic society (and i'm not advocating violence against the power elite...although we've already seen them use violence against peaceful protesters) then we would set an example to the rest of the world who would seek to follow the example by rising up and tackling their own corrupt power elites
Our biggest threat is not from Iran or Syria it is from our own leaders
Lerxst
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The one and only reason we ever involve ourselves (US/Western countries) in anything that ever goes on in a country with darker colored people has to do with natural resources... oil. Look through history and just try to prove me wrong on this; you can't.
Oil is the only reason we topple regimes, place "puppets" and even set foot in a Middle Eastern desert. The access to it, the trade routes around it and the influence over countries with it are all some of the reasons. Did we get involved with Serbia? Publicly, at least, no. Why would we? There's no oil there and they have very little influence over anything to do with it.
Take away our need for oil and suddenly no one will care what any Middle Eastern government will do. Massacre? Give them a verbal slap on the wrist. Genocide? Put a trade embargo on them. Communist dictatorship? Host a Rock concert there...
Oil is the only reason we topple regimes, place "puppets" and even set foot in a Middle Eastern desert. The access to it, the trade routes around it and the influence over countries with it are all some of the reasons. Did we get involved with Serbia? Publicly, at least, no. Why would we? There's no oil there and they have very little influence over anything to do with it.
Take away our need for oil and suddenly no one will care what any Middle Eastern government will do. Massacre? Give them a verbal slap on the wrist. Genocide? Put a trade embargo on them. Communist dictatorship? Host a Rock concert there...
People dont understand that it takes ceratian amount of dicipline to surivive in an enviroment where......e.errrr..........der a lot violence......sooooo........i would dont realllly matter whre the massacre started but......errrrrr......it hard place to be in....and........yeah...that prettyu much ^pillars^ of my thoughts.
DA-HA
DA-HA
muir
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Oil is a massive factor for sure but there are other aspects to this
One is the need for capitalism to exploit new markets. Western capitalism wants other countries to 'liberalise' ie enter into the neoliberal club so that the power elite can then exploit new markets
Also there is strategic points like the suez canal that people want control over. The british empire tried to conquer afghanistan before oil was an issue because it saw itself as in a territorial battle with the russian empire known as the 'great game'
Then there is that small matter of Israel! Jews having faced horrific persecution in Europe being rehoused on land that already belonged to someone else. No suprise really that peace has proved impossible as the land is not being given back and the jews are understandibly not willing to leave themselves vulnerable to future persecution creating a really shitty catch 22 situation
There is no doubting the power of the jewish lobby in the US....some would say it is 'anti semitic' to even talk about a 'jewish lobby' but that's absurd everyone knows there is one and kryptonite already mentioned AIPAC which is only one of countless organisations geared towards steering US foreign policy towards the defence of Israel
Will Israel ever be safe while the US/Israel nexus are carrying out such an aggressive foreign policy? No of course not there will perpetual violence. Will there be compromise? Not while the power elite are carrying out their current agenda
Protests in Israel over the rising costs of living show that most jews are as much victims of neoliberalism as non jews in other countries
This is not a question of jew v's arab its a question of the people v's the power elite
One is the need for capitalism to exploit new markets. Western capitalism wants other countries to 'liberalise' ie enter into the neoliberal club so that the power elite can then exploit new markets
Also there is strategic points like the suez canal that people want control over. The british empire tried to conquer afghanistan before oil was an issue because it saw itself as in a territorial battle with the russian empire known as the 'great game'
Then there is that small matter of Israel! Jews having faced horrific persecution in Europe being rehoused on land that already belonged to someone else. No suprise really that peace has proved impossible as the land is not being given back and the jews are understandibly not willing to leave themselves vulnerable to future persecution creating a really shitty catch 22 situation
There is no doubting the power of the jewish lobby in the US....some would say it is 'anti semitic' to even talk about a 'jewish lobby' but that's absurd everyone knows there is one and kryptonite already mentioned AIPAC which is only one of countless organisations geared towards steering US foreign policy towards the defence of Israel
Will Israel ever be safe while the US/Israel nexus are carrying out such an aggressive foreign policy? No of course not there will perpetual violence. Will there be compromise? Not while the power elite are carrying out their current agenda
Protests in Israel over the rising costs of living show that most jews are as much victims of neoliberalism as non jews in other countries
This is not a question of jew v's arab its a question of the people v's the power elite
just me
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Meanwhile, more people are being killed and I have a problem with that.
History showed the world, except maybe Switzerland?, would not allow the Jews shelter from the storm. The world used to turn their backs to the deaths, and I have a problem with watching such things continue to happen every day. I really do not care about all else you speak about above the killings. The killings come first. The reasons or excuses I overlook because it has been going on longer than I would have allowed it to continue.
I'm not talking politics right now: I'm trying to share with you my feelings about living my life every day in this world that has become soooo small while a world power sends more attack helicopters to quiet the situation. Hard for me to sit on my hands when blood is being spilled on our planet in such a manner.
The problem I have with it is I see something I guess others do not see happening and I see who is helping it along. Surely I must be wrong. How much blood does it take to get just me angry? How long can I control my anger? Should I?
To make all that jibberish understandable, it is personal to me.
History showed the world, except maybe Switzerland?, would not allow the Jews shelter from the storm. The world used to turn their backs to the deaths, and I have a problem with watching such things continue to happen every day. I really do not care about all else you speak about above the killings. The killings come first. The reasons or excuses I overlook because it has been going on longer than I would have allowed it to continue.
I'm not talking politics right now: I'm trying to share with you my feelings about living my life every day in this world that has become soooo small while a world power sends more attack helicopters to quiet the situation. Hard for me to sit on my hands when blood is being spilled on our planet in such a manner.
The problem I have with it is I see something I guess others do not see happening and I see who is helping it along. Surely I must be wrong. How much blood does it take to get just me angry? How long can I control my anger? Should I?
To make all that jibberish understandable, it is personal to me.
muir
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I understand what you're saying its not nice watching the mayhem
The point is that the 'rebels' have been funded, supplied and trained by the CIA. They would not have risen up and taken violent action if they had not had the backing of the US. The US has men on the ground helping the rebels and now it is talking about actually flying bombing missions!
Russia is reacting to this aggression by in turn supporting the current Syrian regime.
Syrians are being used as pawns by the US and then in response by Russia
The US not only started the fire it is pouring petrol on it! The US is the driving force behind all the death and destruction. The russians are just acting defensively to what they see as US attempts to destabilise the region
The US always do this. They trained cubans to rebel in the bay of bigs disaster then left them in the shit on the beach to get bombed by the cuban government. They created terrorist groups in Europe (operation gladio). They fomented resistance against saddam hussein in the first gulf war and then pulled back from invading baghdad leaving hussein in power and able to take revenge against those who had supported the US. They funded the libyan rebels and continue to drip feed them the money/assets the UN seized in order to get the new libyan government to play by neoliberal rules!
The US have been sowing the seeds of violence globally for decades and are stil ldoing it. Divide and rule....
The point is that the 'rebels' have been funded, supplied and trained by the CIA. They would not have risen up and taken violent action if they had not had the backing of the US. The US has men on the ground helping the rebels and now it is talking about actually flying bombing missions!
Russia is reacting to this aggression by in turn supporting the current Syrian regime.
Syrians are being used as pawns by the US and then in response by Russia
The US not only started the fire it is pouring petrol on it! The US is the driving force behind all the death and destruction. The russians are just acting defensively to what they see as US attempts to destabilise the region
The US always do this. They trained cubans to rebel in the bay of bigs disaster then left them in the shit on the beach to get bombed by the cuban government. They created terrorist groups in Europe (operation gladio). They fomented resistance against saddam hussein in the first gulf war and then pulled back from invading baghdad leaving hussein in power and able to take revenge against those who had supported the US. They funded the libyan rebels and continue to drip feed them the money/assets the UN seized in order to get the new libyan government to play by neoliberal rules!
The US have been sowing the seeds of violence globally for decades and are stil ldoing it. Divide and rule....
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muir
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Reuters are owned by the Thompson Corporation....they are part of the corporatocracy
But yes the uprising has to start somewhere and the activists who begin these uprisings are funded and trained by the CIA and by organisations funded by people like George Soros who was behind many of the 'colour revolutions' in Europe
I know someone who is currently being trained as an activist in London by one of these organisations
They run workshops on dissent!
Its an old formula. As Chomsky says in a democracy the power elite is not supposed to dominate the public by force as the public is supposed to believe that it has power. They let us think we have power in the system by letting us vote every 5 years but when we vote we generally choose between two parties (2 party system) which are both ultimately controlled by the corporatocracy but might differ on what are essentially small issues
So as Chomsky says the power elite in a 'democracy' has to instead pursuade the voting public rather than coerce it so it uses the media to 'manufacture consent' from the public
If however the public do challenge the authority of the corporatocracy then you see what the REAL dynamic of power is. Basically if you protest the corporatocracy will use its thugs (the police) to arrest, beat and pepper spray you and thats when you see what the power elite really think of you and your opinions
So the whole game has to played out......there has to be a spark....a 'thesis'.....so the CIA fund and train activists, this then creates the 'antithesis' which is a conflict so that the power elite can then offer their solution...the 'synthesis' which is that they should fly war planes over otehr countries and bomb them in order that they can then impose a puppet government that they can control so that they can then bribe the corrupt officials into giving away that countries natural resources such as oil at drop down prices
Its like a bully in the street. They will never just come up and smack you....they will try to create a justification first....eg they will say 'what you looking at?' before they then start the pushing phase before escalating into a full blown punch up......its done in stages
Look at Libya....that was done in stages
Look at Iraq....that hapened because the US sold slant drilling technology to Kuweit so that they could drill under Iraq and steal its oil threatening it with bankruptcy so it invaded Kuweit which then gave the uS the justification to invade Iraq
Look at Vietnam where the gulf of tonkin incident was created out of nothing (there was no incident!) so that the US president could go on television and tell the US public that 'reluctantly' they were going to have to go to war! He didn't tell the US public that the US already had special forces fighting on the ground in vietnam or that they had been flying air missions as well!
Its all a game justme to deceive the public into thinking that the corporatocracy are the good guys and that everyone else in the world are the bad guys (the 'axis of evil')
Look up 'Operation Northwood' online as this was an operation of the CIA that has leaked out into the public sphere and this oeration basically outlines a plane for the CIA to stage terrorist attacks in the US that could be blamed on Castro to justify an invasion of Cuba
Look up 'operation Gladio' online which was a plan carried out by the CIA after world war 2 which created secret armies across Europe that were to carry out terrorist attacks that were to be blamed on communists! These attacks were still going on in the 1970's and beyond!!!!
The bologna train bombing was part of operation gladio which saw many civilians killed.
Now where have we seen this sort of sophisticated attack recently?
OOOhhh lets think......well there was the madrid train bombing, then there was the London underground bombing..........ask yourself what happened as a result of these attacks?
These attacks justified the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq in a war against some vague abstract thing called 'terror'
A british civil servant called Dr Matthew Kelly bravely spoke out in public and told the british public that the dossier the government had made up claiming that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction was a lie! it was made out of a paper written by a student years before and then 'sexed up' by the government.
Well that brave man was then found dead in the woods near his home. He was a family man with everything to live for but the corporate press said he had 'committed suicide'....a number of doctors have challenged this claim
The head of the BBC, Andrew Gilligan who had interviewed Kelly was sacked
Before 911 a right wing think tank called the Rand Corporation wrote a paper called 'The New American Century' which outlined their plan to ensure that the USA remained the pre-eminant world power in the next century. This plan required the control of the oil fields of the middle east.
In the paper it says that in order for the US government to carry out its plans it needed a 'new pearl harbour' incident which would galvinise public opinion behind the aggressive moves the military were going to make.
Bare in mind that the US lost the vietnam war because it was the first war to be televised.....people were disgusted and shocked by war when they saw what it really involved so there were MASSED DEMONSTRATIONS against the war.
The US government knew that to carry on their war games they would have to make the US public VERY ANGRY and they would need to create a new enemy (extreme islam....which they had actually created by funding groups fighting russia in afghainstan in the 70's)
A year after the rand corporation published that paper they got their new pearl harbour incident.....911
The US public were furious and demanded revenge and the military industrial complex rumbled into action once more. And who has paid for the war? Is it the super rich with all their tax breaks and offshore accounts? NO of course not it is the taxpaying public who are now drowning in debt
Pearl Harbour is another example of thesis, antithesis and synthesis....the commander of the pacific fleet refused to follow out orders to move the fleet to the vulnerable port of pearl harbour so he was relieved from his command. Meanwhile the US was provoking Japan with sanctions!
The power elites have a game plan that they are following through and it is a game plan that basically involves a wholelot of death and destruction and they will profit from it......the people will pay for it in taxes and blood