Massacre in Syria

[muir]

Sorry the paper the rand corporation wrote was called 'a project for a new american century' you can read about it online and even on wikipedia

The philosopher behind the neoconservative movement was called Strauss

Students of his included Bush (father and son presidents who both waged wars against Saddam hussein who previous to that had worked with the US especially when the US supplied them in a war against Iran....no wonder Iran hate the US!), Rumsfeld (architect of the blitzkreig approach of the second iraq invasion) and Paul Wolfowitz (later to become chairman of the world bank)

These guys got into powerful poisitions in government and the cia. BBC journalist Adam Curtis made a fantastic documentary about this which can be found online called 'the power of nightmares'

Strauss used to love watching westerns......he loved the black hat, white hat morality of a good guy versus a bad guy and he saw this as a very good way of moulding public perceptions. He knew that to lead the public to war you have to weave a narrative in which you are the good guys and the guys you want to crush or control are the bad guys

The neo-cons believed that to galvanise a population you need certain things: a flag to rally round, a strong sense of national identity (children salute the flag froma young age in the US), a religion (so the neo-cons courted right wing christians because they saw religion as a tool to us to create unity and integrity of national character and also because they were a massive voting block) and finally an ENEMY to define yourself against and to use as a bogeyman to scare the public to get them to follow your orders

Thats what the film 'the village' was about made in the wake of 911.....it was about creating bogeymen to control people

The nazis had formed the enemy before then the russians provided the perfect bogeyman (the 'red scare') and with the collapse of the USSR a new enemy was needed.

The CIA had funded and trained mujihadeen fighters against the russians in afghanistan and now they could use these as the new enemy so islam was cast in the role of the new enemy....the new bogeyman. Terror could lurk anywhere we were constantly told.....the police were foiling plots everywhere we were told.....lots of arrests were made (but very few convictions!!!)

The reality is that most 'terrorist attacks' are state sponsored or carried out by secret services.

The 'neo-cons' are simply part of the power elite though. They are part of an unholy alliance between wallstreet, the corporations and government. The power elite is basically a merging of corporate power with government power which by some peoples definition is fascism

It might as well be called neo-fascism!

So people are now waking up to all this which is why there are more and more protests going on. The occupy movement has called it the 99% against the 1% but really its probably more like 0.01%

the puppet masters are the people at the very top of the pyramid. They exercise their power thorugh many channels (not least through government and the federal reserve bank) for example think tanks that advise the government. One such think tank is the council on foreign relations. Please look this up on wikipedia and click on the link to see who the members are as you will see a long list of corporations....thats because it is a corporatocracy running the US

 

[just me]

There will be a large gathering in Syria. I pray it will somehow stop the killings, with or without Obama's so-called help.

 

[Quiet]

Has anyone considered that maybe the public should be kept quiet, or at least prevented from instigating more violence? Civillians should never be fair game, but that doesn't translate to removing Assad from power. The rebels winning isn't always the best outcome, and in this case I believe the rebels wining would be a disaster for the middle east.

Its hard to say which would be the best course of action because we do not understand the situation as outsiders. What is clear is that there are many people living in that situation that are unhappy and feel powerless. And regardless of who is murdering these people, the fact remains that they are being murdered and they are living in a volatile situation that is not democratic or conducive to freedom.
I dont think the public should ever be kept quiet. The world and our lives belong to all of us. We know whats best for us and should have the opportunity to live in an informed democracy and make our own decisions. Information is power. The more the people know and discuss, the better of we all are collectively. People are instigating violence because they are frightened and feel powerless. The currupt leaders and the puppeteers may make it appear that there is order, but that order comes at a very high blood price for many people.

I do think that people need to get involved, as there are many people begging for help. However, every single country that would offer aid, violent aid, has ulterior motives and would probably only seek to rape and repress the people further. This is why this situation is so sad and difficult. Ultimately it comes down to power and resources. People not beimng able to deal with their fear, so they inflict it on others.

Just like with Iraq, you remove Saddam, a largely secular dictator, and once he is gone the country is plunged into sectarian violence waged by the fanatics Saddam largely kept in check as he himself was a member of the Sunni minority. I think it is inevitable that Iraq become much like Iran at some point in the future precisely because the West continues to manipulate Middle-Eastern affairs against the well being of the people who actually live in the region. The entire crisis with Iran trying to get Nuclear weapons can be traced to the Iraq war. Iran would never have been able to get away with a nuclear weapons program if Iraq was never invaded, as long time enemies, Iraq under Saddam would have never allowed Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. By invading Iraq we completely upset the balance of power in the Middle-East, and now we have people clamoring for yet again, another war, this time with Iran. What the U.S. has done is tipped the first domino and is now trying to stop the rest from falling, you can't have it both ways. You can't achieve a lasting peace through more war.

Uopn learning more about the situation in Iraq, it is my opinion that the violence that occured following the invasion was largely manufactured by the Allied forces and our shoddy miltary tactics that were designed to fail.
I think that conserving or maintaining the strained peace of dictators is not the best solution. Saddam was not a good leader. He was not toppled because he was a bad leader, but because he was not being a good little parrot and there was more money to be made by invading Iraq than not. The balance of power in the Middle east does need to be changed. All these people living there are helpless to the wills of their own and foreign govenments and corporations. And no one it seems, actually wants to help them, they all just want to exploit them further.

This country sat and watched hundreds of thousands die in African genocide, does anyone wonder why it is that we are interested in a small number Syrian innocents killed, but turn a blind eye to hundreds of thousands of Africans being killed? It's because Africa serves no purpose in this government's vision of future interests, and no purpose for lobbying groups such as AIPAC. I think the U.S. military is sadly being used as a a type of snow plow to pave the way for an exclusive Israeli dominance in the region for decades to come, and to bring the governments of invaded countries such as Iraq and Afghanistan (perhaps Syria soon) under the umbrella of western financiers.

Agreed

This is why I think looking to Russia in this situation is helpful. They are interested in maintaining the status quo and a balance of power in the middle east, partly so they do not lose their one base in Syria. The West is establishing this trend, that if you are anti-establishment and are violent enough, they will support you with more violence to overthrow the establishment without regard for who is in a better position to be in leadership. How will this ever lead to peace? It won't, it is straight out of 1984, "War is Peace."

Neither maintaining the status quo or starting a war will create peace. Both of these options ignore the root of the problem and are centred around disempowering the public and stealing power and resources away from them

I think people sometimes think it's trendy and fashionable to support the rebels, without figuring out what these rebels stand for. I get the feeling pro-rebel and anti-establishment people would have been caught up in the romanticism of the Beer Hall Putsch had they been around during that time. All the more reason to examine both sides, and I am confident the rebels gaining power would be disastrous.

It is hard to say without more information. What is true though, is that people rebel do so for a reason, because they are unhappy and dont have other more 'legitimate' options. Sometimes 'rebelling' is the only option one has to take control over their own life and circumstances. Yes people will die, but people are dying within the 'staus quo' also. People rebel because they want change, for various reasons. There needs to be change.

I completely agree with you that war is not the solution. If we care to, we need to help these people in real and practical ways and invest into building a more democratic and open culture. This can never be achieved using a gun, rather, through education and support. We could be building schools, hospitals, community centres and setting up fair trade and exchange programs. Communication and exchange of information is the key, and the internet makes all this so possible. Its pretty simple really, we can assist these people by supporting them and helping them, and we will only hurt them by threatening them and inflicting more violence on them. If the goal is to empower the people, this can be achieved through education. Its not possible to have a functional democracy without education.

War solves nothing, its just a way for greedy people to profit from blood.

I truly believe that we could change this situation entirely by bycotting oil. Fuck oil! Everytime I use oil and plastic now I can see the blood lrunning down my hands. If we want to change this situation we can. The only reason these people are in this situation is because of our greed, our fear, laziness and ignorance. We cant have it both ways. If we want to live a cushy wasteful life, someone else where is feeling the pain for our complaceny and apathy with the actions of our governments and corporations and our parasitic lifestyles.

Please say no to oil and plastic everyone! Stop buying shit! Fuck you corporations and your plastic landfil. Fuck you weapons manufacturers, you are manufactures of fear and pain and suffering and death! Buy fair trade! Grow your own food where you can. And start having awareness and taking responsibility for all your actions. The computer i use to type from, the oil that carried the coffee that Im drinking, all this shit has blood on it.

We made this problem. its our job to fix it by taking responsibilty for our actions and not causing others further pain

All these things are happening because people like me unwittingly and wittingly create this situation, and choose complaceny and fear over courage and love. We can change it if we have the love and courage to change ourselves. Its not rocket science, but much harder to achieve unfortunately because we simply dont want to change.

I pray that one day the UN and the Universal declaration of Human Rights will mean something of value

 

[muir]

The New York Times admits that the CIA have been supplying weapons to the Syrian rebels: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/w...aid-in-steering-arms-to-syrian-rebels.html?hp

 

[The Jester]

Ive been reading about the situation in Syria and the recent massacre.

I feel pretty sad and angry right now. The best we can hope with this situation in Syria is that the UN demands a ceasefire. But its all so dodgy and corrupt. Its hard to know 'they' really want out of this situation. i wish i could trust the UN. I really really hate oil, weapons and money. I wish these things would just die. All this shit is happening around the world just so people like us in the 1st world can be cushy and whinge about how expensive fuel has gotten and go to the gym to burn of the fat we should have burned from moving ourlselves around rather than relying on all our corrupt governments and the oil that is raped from the land. I wish we werent so pathetic and so dependant. I wish we could just invest in renewables. We as so easy to manipulate and control because we can be so fearful, lazy and ignorant. God bless the people of Syria and hopefully they will have some peace, comfort, and the chance of a better life soon.

Here is an email I recieved from Avaaz



And quite a few articles on The Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/syria

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

Not to be a negative nancy, but that's basically what it is: fiction.
While you're right (to an extent) to hate weapons, oil and money, I can't imagine our world living without it.

Man is evil: violence is in our nature, and while I'm not an agressive person, I can see why it'll never cease to exist.
The UN has become a joke imo. Remember Israel and that time they invaded the Gaza-region for the 204604th time in january 2009?
Well, the UN threatened with international sanctions, which had zero effect.

+ to only confront the militaristic and economic side of these issues is ridiculous, there are so many dimensions to it, and if you want to solve it, you'd need to go back to the roots.
(Of course, priorities need to be set.)

Much ramblings, really.

 

[muir]

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people living life in peace

Not to be a negative nancy, but that's basically what it is: fiction.
While you're right (to an extent) to hate weapons, oil and money, I can't imagine our world living without it.

Man is evil: violence is in our nature, and while I'm not an agressive person, I can see why it'll never cease to exist.
The UN has become a joke imo. Remember Israel and that time they invaded the Gaza-region for the 204604th time in january 2009?
Well, the UN threatened with international sanctions, which had zero effect.

+ to only confront the militaristic and economic side of these issues is ridiculous, there are so many dimensions to it, and if you want to solve it, you'd need to go back to the roots.
(Of course, priorities need to be set.)

Much ramblings, really.

What if the UN is doing exactly what its founders wanted it to do?

What if the founders of the UN don't want to bring an expansive Israel to the negotiation table?

What if the founders of the UN actually want to topple certain governments in order to see new regimes put in place that will fit into their economic paradigm? After all what is the UN if not a prototype world government?

Go back to the roots of the UN.....find out who gave the land to the UN that they used to build their offices on in New York

 

[Quiet]

Hey [MENTION=1519]The Jester[/MENTION]
absolultely agree that the UN is a joke. Even if the UN was 'real', they wouldnt ever have the balls to stand up to the bullies.

Do you truly believe that man is evil and that violence is in our nature?