Men Inequality: are men falling behind in society?

[John K]

A lot of threads I could post this in but it might be useful placed in this one.
Anyway, I found it helpful from a getting yourself grounded sort of sense.

Interesting video Wy. An important idea in it, which I very much support, is that gender is an attribute, not part of our identity. We are human a priori and race, gender, height, hair colour, name, intelligence, where we live, what era we live in - these things are all contingent. Take any or all these things away, and each individual is still the same human in their inner core. Over attachment to any of these contingencies will hide us from our own essential human self. When we do attach our sense of our own identity to any of them we lose a bit of our soul into the shadows. In truth we have much more choice in some of them than we realise, and maybe to make no choice at all is often more sensible than picking one or the other.

Ah! but this is like pointing the way to enlightenment, and it's not so easy to find the inner door that leads to the start of that road. At the same time, there is the difficult whack-a-mole game of related, conflicting ethical problems to deal with at the social collective level, and all the angst that is generating. Those whom the gods wish to destroy .....

 

[Wyote]

In truth we have much more choice in some of them than we realise, and maybe to make no choice at all is often more sensible than picking one or the other.

Agree with all that you've said John, and this bit was my main take away to focus on for myself at this time.

 

[just me]

What is God to you?
@SlowUpTake

Was not Job blessed beyond compare?

 

[SlowUpTake]

What is God to you?
@SlowUpTake

Was not Job blessed beyond compare?

Job was not blessed, there is no compensation for the murder of one's family. Interestingly Jung, in his "Answer to Job" points out that the book of Job is the precursor the need for a more human god. Someone to hear your prayers, someone who cares.

As for me....I am a pantheist who does not believe in a supervising agency(think of it as religious libertarianism).

 

[just me]

Job 1:1-22
1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil. 2 And there were born unto him seven sons and three daughters. 3 His substance also was seven thousand sheep, and three thousand camels, and five hundred yoke of oxen, and five hundred she asses, and a very great household; so that this man was the greatest of all the men of the east. 4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them. 5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. 7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? 9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought? 10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. 12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD. 13 And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother’s house: 14 And there came a messenger unto Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: 15 And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yea, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. 16 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God is fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep, and the servants, and consumed them; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. 17 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made out three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yea, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. 18 While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother’s house: 19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee. 20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, 21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. 22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Bible Gateway

Job 2:9 KJV: "Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die." She was not worthy of him, and thus replaced. Her words revealed her spirit.

"Virtue is exposed to injury; but in its fires virtue is purified and perfected." R Green

We make a sword in the fire, beating and burning it into shape. What is not needed falls away. My Word is like unto a sharp, two-edged sword: cutting and healing at the same time. Out of thine own mouth, words come forth that can cut or heal.

Thank you for your response.

 

[just me]

quote " Jung, in his "Answer to Job" points out that the book of Job is the precursor the need for a more human god. Someone to hear your prayers, someone who cares."

Thus we have someone to hear our prayers: someone who cares. We were made in His own image.

 

[just me]

All this about men falling behind kills me. The old " keep them in the kitchen and pregnant" mentality has vanished. That is a good thing. Women can now fly into space. Does that mean they are stepping above men. I still enjoy the beauty of a woman, so I naturally like a female waitress much more than a male acting like a woman with his gestures. To each his own.

This reminds me of blacks seeking so many changes in our history, while history is history. Remove the statues. Rename the parks. Give them minority contracts. While not racist, this is demeaning to what MLK Jr was seeking: equality.
Not a person in his right mind wants to say something about it, but it needs to stop somewhere. Slavery has been around since written history and possibly before. I hired blacks. I hired women. However, it was because of the person they were. Same with the few friends I seem to have. Do women seek rights like this, holding society in contempt over what most have not been subjected to? There is neither white nor black, there is neither male nor female: for we are all one with Christ.
Men are holding their peace, but certainly not all of them. I am ashamed of how some people want this and want that. I am ashamed of a government that buys votes with handouts that go to waste. People take care of things better when they have to work and pay for it.

Let's find more blacks and women jobs. We had best get our heads out of our you know whats, because people are closing the doors of their businesses and large corporations by the scores are firing tens and hundreds of thousands of employees.
Stay home and order it. Everyone stay at home while we are being demoralized. Government spending will slow. Income taxes are not being paid by so many, there must be a void of capital. They want to just give it away and make more laws to take away our rights. Wake up. They want us to cause more problems to use them against us. Crime rate will thus increase, as will shootings. The shootings will become bombs should we remove semi-automatic rifles from the citizens. Our people are suffering and the money is being raped. We should all stand together to get through this. Change is much needed, but change must start with the money grabbers. If I had secret documents in my house, it would be me writing books. Who are they to share these documents with their people? Our government is not weak, but a lot of people are. Many must be replaced.



Ephesians 5:22-33
King James Version

22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

"They two shall be one flesh." Does this show some kind of inequality? There is little worse than a wife talking behind her husband's back while he speaks. A woman seeking self edification while her husband preaches edification for all is going backward. Patting one's own back while talking is disrespectful for men and women alike. Some need self edification, and this only states there is a time and a place for everything. This does not implicate superiority over women. This tells man to respect and love his wife as he loves himself. Do women of today respect and love their husbands as they love themselves? I certainly hope so.

 

[aeon]

The old " keep them in the kitchen and pregnant" mentality has vanished.

I hate to say it, but you could not be more wrong. Old-school misogyny with patriarchal marriage-ownership, uterine control, and sex gatekeeping is alive and well. Has progress been made? Sure, but progress is like a pendulum in that it oscillates.

I am ashamed of how some people want this and want that.

Why would you feel shame about what someone else does? What do you want?

People take care of things better when they have to work and pay for it.

What do people do who cannot find employment or a livable wage, and what does it mean when inequality in a society means uncountable numbers cannot afford to pay? What do they take care of?

What does it mean if the American Dream is dead? What if it was always a myth?

People, on average, succeed in life to the degree of their birth circumstances. Work if you like. Chances are it won’t make a difference.

Just Some Thoughts...Save Yourself...and Blesséd Be,
Ian

 

[just me]

I feel shame. I pretty much have what material things I need, but have worked since tenth grade. Sold a business when my Father died and took three years off. Closed another second generation corporation I helped my stepfather build when he died. I have watched so many people steal customers, steal materials, do work for the guy next door, drive my truck without a license, load the entire truck when my Dad was out of town, come to work half drunk. I have been threatened. Intent to kill with actions I had to stop. Why? He was having a bad day. Had him written up as a disorderly person, but would not agree with having him picked up. People hold grudges, they do. Had to fire a few people, though had records of all their actions with dates and warnings. Try to work people today; they need to find God.

There was this young man was similar to myself from the Air Force. After a week, told him he could do much better and had him go somewhere else where they could afford his skills. Yes, we all have problems. However, some folk just want to wear a hat with your name on it. They do not want to work, and their attitude injects poison into the others. Had to do a lot of the work myself.

When I started the first corporation, I hand-picked employees that were the best at what they did. No problems.

We ate what my parents could afford. My Father was fired after 26 years with nothing. He was a type setter. I loved to fish and hunt. It gave us much needed food. I am out of work. I'm just too old with too much experience. Still driving a vehicle 23 years old. Could go buy a new one, but what for? Looks? I'd best hang onto what we have. Going to have my old back surgery looked at again today. Pain comes and it goes. I'm used to it, but don't really like it. I hurt myself, so have never applied for disability. I've seen both sides of the coin.

I beg to respectfully differ from your view regarding women and ownership. Don't know any of those. Guess we choose who we hang out with.

My friend, do you feel shame for someone you know that is being mistreated by a man? Say something to them carefully, but say it. My apologies for venting. I watched the poor business owners get a man out of prison, give him a business, and taught him how to steal thousands from our city and businesses. When I asked for funds for finishing part of my contract with him, they told me he had already been paid for everything. Of course, he had no money. Such "Good News". They would do nothing to him. Imagine that. They did pay me, though, while he continued doing business with them.

Guess I was gifted when born. Finding a way to do something quickly, without reproach, has always been one of my gifts. Believe me, I shared it with very many people. When someone needs me, they know where to find me. All they need do is ask.
Thank you for your dignant reply.

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

He had some points despite his methods being unjustifiable.

 

[Sloe Djinn]

Biology no longer dictates gender roles to the extent it did when we were fighting for survival as a species. The classic gender roles become obsolete, to a greater degree (though not exclusively) in places far removed from that struggle for survival.

In that sense it’s not a race/competition. Anyway we’re just an evolving patch of mold on a grain of sand in the universe.

 

[aeon]

I hurt myself, so have never applied for disability.

The reason makes no difference, but your choice is your own. I never applied either, but I was declared as such by some process.

I beg to respectfully differ from your view regarding women and ownership. Don't know any of those. Guess we choose who we hang out with.

I listen to the stories of experience that women share, but I don’t know anyone like this myself.

My friend, do you feel shame for someone you know that is being mistreated by a man?

Absolutely not. Why would I? Compassion? Yes. Shame? No.

Guess I was gifted when born.

Self-awareness is priceless, and worth more than any earthly riches.

Best to You,
Ian

 

[just me]

Absolutely not. Why would I? Compassion? Yes. Shame? No.

Compassion would be natural, IO think. The shame is for a society that seems to let things like this be.

Someone beating a child in line leaving the grocery store? Grab their arm.

 

[aeon]

The shame is for a society that seems to let things like this be.

The society was trash the day I arrived. I do what I can, which is to say, I try to be my best self, and I sometimes beat a tiny drum. Ultimately, society is a collection of individuals. Each and every is responsible for their self.

Society exists as much as “women” and “men” do. Just enough to use in shorthand, and get yourself in trouble.

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Roses In The Vineyard]

In short the state is massively profiting from breaking up families.

 

[just me]

In your weakness possess ye your strength. What is your weakness?

Humanity, both men and women, now have Al to deal with: robots that almost act like men and women. Robots to have sex with. Robots to talk with. I choose to see men and women equal in the sight of God. Robots are robots, and will take jobs from humans.

Behold the ice. It is strong enough to sink the Titanic. It covers our magnetic poles. Thin ice can be the death of us, yet it is ice.

 

[niar]

Looks like somebody didn't get the "there are no genders" memo

~Chaos Coyote

These kids were most likely all brought up according to the stereotypes of one of the two genders of their culture, time and environment and parents' preferances. Explains why traditionalist parents like this would have little girls who learn from a young age to take care of themselves and others vs little boys who are chaotic and immature for their age. This really reinforces the fact that gender is a social structure, if anything. It'd be interesting to see a counter social experiment with an agender group of kids thrown in to compare.

 

[Wyote]

It'd be interesting to see a counter social experiment with an agender group of kids thrown in to compare.

 

[just me]

These kids were most likely all brought up according to the stereotypes of one of the two genders of their culture, time and environment and parents' preferances. Explains why traditionalist parents like this would have little girls who learn from a young age to take care of themselves and others vs little boys who are chaotic and immature for their age. This really reinforces the fact that gender is a social structure, if anything. It'd be interesting to see a counter social experiment with an agender group of kids thrown in to compare.

Genders were created for each other, and having children and pleasure in this life.

 

[aeon]

Genders were created for each other, and having children and pleasure in this life.

You don’t know what gender is, do you?

It sounds like you are talking about dimorphic sex.

Cheers,
Ian