Merkabah

[Skarekrow]

I can relate. I often used to despise seemingly oversimplified nuggets of wisdom.

Ironically though I've come to learn that problems are not complicated. People are complicated. I learned through Taoism for example that there really are such simple solutions, but only in the context of completely deconstructing the human condition first along with its propensity to complicate matters.

I have worked out a process with myself that I can go through to break out of depression or anxiety…it’s mostly through self-actualiztion meditations.
It seems to work well for me…I think anyone with a good imagination can have the predisposition of that imagination running wild with worst-case scenarios and then getting stuck in that groove playing over and over.
Sometimes you need to give the machine a good “whack” to get things going again so to speak…hahaha.

 

[Skarekrow]

Parallels between Near-Death Experiences and Religion/Spirituality

[video=youtube_share;f_FaFTHbBRU]http://youtu.be/f_FaFTHbBRU[/video]

Abstract: I will present the results of my study of 16 NDEs investigating the parallels to religion/spirituality.

Through a high average score of 21 (Greyson Scale) and a 15-page long questionnaire, the depth of the study suggests a universal

core element that can help the NDEr understand and integrate the experience.​

 

[sprinkles]

I have worked out a process with myself that I can go through to break out of depression or anxiety…it’s mostly through self-actualiztion meditations.
It seems to work well for me…I think anyone with a good imagination can have the predisposition of that imagination running wild with worst-case scenarios and then getting stuck in that groove playing over and over.
Sometimes you need to give the machine a good “whack” to get things going again so to speak…hahaha.

Yeah I think we need to be primed to use those higher functions. You can't see past limitations because you have limitations. It's like learning to read - you can't JUST learn by reading because you can't read! Your mind has to be coached into a new level of awareness so that the symbols have a meaning which symbols themselves cannot teach you.

We have to be kind of smacked into a higher level of functioning by some incidental mechanism. Like how I couldn't figure out how to solve parity with commutators, because commutators can't actually solve parity, until I saw somebody make one turn and then fix everything which got broken with commutators which also indirectly removes the parity since parity happens due to a mismatch of even or odd turns so if you make one extra turn and then fix everything, you've gone from odd to even for example and thus the parity is fixed.

 

[apemon]

I can relate. I often used to despise seemingly oversimplified nuggets of wisdom.

Ironically though I've come to learn that problems are not complicated. People are complicated. I learned through Taoism for example that there really are such simple solutions, but only in the context of completely deconstructing the human condition first along with its propensity to complicate matters.

THIS all the hell over. The patterns are easy to see, it's people that complicate things. However, as the old saying goes, they know not what they do.

 

[Skarekrow]

HOW TO RECOGNIZE AN ENERGY VAMPIRE
AND WHAT TO DO ABOUT IT​

I will start off by saying that everyone that is reading this article has most likely had an experience with an energy vampire living in the type of society we do today.

​

​

All of us experiencing this at different levels, whether it be a relationship where you were so manipulated you started questioning your own sanity.
Having to scribe and keep track of each moment because this person was convicting you the sky was actually purple or simply a friend or coworker not being happy for fortunate moments within your life.

It is the feeling of being drained of your energy, your natural joy and life force by someone around you.
You can feel them deliberately or unintentionally sapping and mutating their surroundings into negativity.

Our main mission here on this planet is to love one another.
To join hands and head and build the higher vibration to shake away all that is lacking.

This energy sapping feeling has to start somewhere in my opinion, originating from a general expectation for the other person (the energy vampire) to share this feeling, this mission of mutual elation.

The current societal construct has been built on the opposite ideology telling us unconsciously on a daily basis since birth, that when we do not get the emotional energy we need (that should be from sharing) we must then go into dominating or competing with others.

An unconscious competition for energy underlies all energy vampire conflicts.
By dominating or manipulating others, they get the extra energy they think they need. It feels good to them but both parties are damaged in the conflict.

The truth is always inherently looming though, that we never have to control, overpower or manipulate anyone or any situation because each person has a direct line to source energy, the most abundant and powerful source of energy there is.

​

So what are the different types of psychic vampires and how do you spot them?

Poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them.
This is the person that if you have the flu they have had it way worse than you or even the one who constantly has the bad relationship, financial state, and some looming affliction to top it off.

Isn’t it coincidental that the ones who have not been awakened to their line to source are also sick, broke and out of luck-love?
Or is that a coincidence at all?

These people I see the most frequently but are also the least harmful as most are doing it from a non-malicious and most of the time unconscious standpoint.
Although I have experienced some who this is the tip of the iceberg to reel you in to the layers of manipulation tactics to have you as their constant victim and host.

When you don’t show up for their pity party this will come full swing with their arsenal of guilt trips to try to sap energy and attention.
Always try to keep in mind this poor me attitude simply stems from not receiving enough love from within.

The Aloof sap energy by showing indifference.
This person is the one who is the too cool for school guy or gal that will indirectly without saying anything make you question whether what you are doing should be celebrated at all.

They wallow in their indifference just long enough to psychologically affect your processes to where the tables and attention is turned towards them instead of your original source of joy.

This is the guy who is completely but quietly disgusted by the raise you just got or the amazing lesson you have learned in life and want to share.
There is also a siphoning feeling from what you are doing to them because their main tactic is to stop the flow of energy as a control mechanism.

Interrogators drain energy by judging and questioning.
These people are the ones who are incessantly and persistently intent to be right at all cost.

Therefore it could be something that is generally known and they counteract what you are saying by simply wording different or more precise.
These are the ones who are constantly stepping on your heels to try to get one imaginary (non-existent) step ahead of you by cutting you down and proving you “wrong”.

Their objective is control and ego boosting since this is coming from insecurity.
Their tactic is to form a mental separation from the universal truth and to have you question your inner compass and knowing so that they can be in control over you, themselves and the surrounding situation.

Intimidators steal energy from others by threat or fear.
In my opinion this is the deepest embedding vampire and the most sophisticated.

This person needs to get close enough to know your personal fears to use them against you.
This is a very primal, reptilian brain tactic that if you are in fear then they hold the steering wheel to your decisions and life force energy.

This tactic is not to be taken lightly and often follows with a bribing system.
For example: If you don’t do this you will compromise your or other’s safety.

You wouldn’t want that would you?
Very malicious.

Very deliberate.
Perhaps showing the mirror of what the true comfort to any situation would be instead of the fear.

In my opinion, separation or ignoring is the best counter for this one.

Naturally the next question to ask would be:

​

How do I protect myself from energy vampires?

I always use this easy three step system:
1. Try to uplift the vampire to a higher vibration.
All things either come from love or are a cry for love.

If the person trying to sap energy from you is looking for love which is the feeling of connection to their own line to source then remind them of this.
Whether it be through an act of kindness or simply offering words of empowerment to their situation.

This technique works the best for the poor me type.

2. If they are resistant to the vibration raising, you can always protect yourself.
If you try to offer them love, they resist this process you can always go into protection mode.

Most people see this as building a wall, shutting down or visualizing a bubble of white light surrounding you.
While I think the visualization is handy because it brings you back to your own line of connection and remembrance that you are a powerful extension of source, this is just a band-aid over the splinter from my perspective.

Since it is only a temporary fix to the situation, if you want to keep this person around.
The situation get sticky because we have expectations and they are understandable and universal expectations.

This expectation is to share in the building and acceleration of the collective consciousness.
We have made an agreement and it feels good to share good vibrations with other people to help raise humanity to ascension.

Therefore when an energy vampire starts sapping your open energy instead of joining in to build the frequency, you give them open access becoming the victim.
This is only because we lower our vibration in disappointment because of their reaction or action.

We can stop this access by not being a victim of expectation, we simply expect the opposite for this person (to continue with the same energy draining behavior patterns). Recognizing that this is independent of our personal experience.

You then can see that you have to be on the same frequency of an energy vampire to even become the host.
Another “tactic” would be a healing exercise I like to do when I am offended or feel let down by someone which is to ask myself what false belief I am holding to allow myself to feel let down to begin with.

I go into this in great detail in my article How to Protect Yourself as an Empath if you would like to know more about this healing pathway.

3. Cut ties of communication or simply ignore them.
Lastly and I say this because I truly believe we are here as mirrors for one another to help heal one another through sharing but if this person is persistent enough to be causing you mental and even physical anguish then it is time to separate yourself whether you do that physically or mentally.

Start focusing on the type of relationships you would like to surround yourself with and build your environment up with the frequencies you would like to be vibrating at, this is indirectly energy vampire repellent for two reasons.

One is that energy vampires need a reaction or your negative attention to continue being vampiric and two they need to have you be in the frequency of being the victim.
So in my opinion it is useless to try to justify yourself by teaming up with others “against” this person like a good guy-bad guy scenario because let’s be honest this is multidimensional.

Everyone is neither all good or all bad, we are just in different levels of healing and perception.
If you start to focus on what you want and less of what they are doing, you will be surprised at what ease these people disappear.

When you listen to your inner heart compass, your connection to source, you will be surprised at what “power” you have “over” them because the truth is there is no higher power than another.

There is no control, only oneness.
Just keep following your joy.

To sum all of this up, the dynamics to any vampiric situation are quite simple as you can see, they start trying to draw energy from you, you start to feel the drama from their control tactic which temporarily leads you away from that sweet connection point to source.

The more you partake in their lower vibration the more ”power” you give them.
No one wants to admit it but the truth is we have ALL been energy vampires at one point or another because we have been programmed to gain energy through childhood traumas and societal programming rather than the abundant all oneness.

The scale and frequency to which we perform energy vampirism is unique to each person but the first step to healing humanity it to remind ourselves and others that we are not only loved but a channel for the universal all knowing, all powerful interconnected source.

We should dive deep and become aware of the subtle energies around us and try to understand where the false belief is within your subconscious to cause this to situation to arise, then once recognized replacing it with the truth.

When we do this there is just not any time or space for anything other than soaking up those warm, yummy, joyful frequencies.
Radiating and sharing these accelerating frequencies with everyone surrounding within this universal now moment.

 

[Skarekrow]

So I just got home last night from the hospital…I take a beta-blocking medication Propanolol for the prevention of migraine headaches which I take before bed.
I started taking Indocin which is an old NSAID like Ibuprofen.
Anyhow, turns out that the NSAID can cause the build up of Propranolol and I ended up in the back of an ambulance with a pulse of 30 and a blood pressure of 225/110 which is insane.
I honest to God almost died…I can’t believe I maintained consciousness even though I was laying flat…the paramedic said I was WHITE-WHITE.
So, I’m home now, but still feel kinda shitty…my BP is still a bit high but not dangerously so.
How anyone can sleep in a fucking hospital is beyond me….damn roommate had a V-Pap machine going all night and then the bed inflates and deflates all night…then they put SCDs on my ankles which inflate and deflate all night…had a pounding heart and bad headache too all night.
Then even 2 hours someone comes in to fuck with you…damn Phlebotomist drew blood every four hours which was close to impossible each time since my pressures were screwy it collapsed my usually popping out veins…ugh…she even stuck me on my pinky-finger knuckle( that one hurt the worst!).
Slept much better last night but the BP isn’t quite under control yet…they had to give me massive amounts of fluid even though it seems contraindicated by a high BP…they basically had to work my kidney to flush out the med causing it.
A BP like this feels like constant anxiety which is quite uncomfy.
Well…my only thoughts were of my girlfriend, my son, and my Mom…honestly, my heart should have either stopped or I should have stroked out…how I didn’t is beyond me.
Nice to be among the living even though I am not really afraid of death - I do not wish to go so soon, and I especially don’t want my loved ones to feel any grief on my behalf.

 

[Tin Man]

So I just got home last night from the hospital…I take a beta-blocking medication Propanolol for the prevention of migraine headaches which I take before bed.
I started taking Indocin which is an old NSAID like Ibuprofen.
Anyhow, turns out that the NSAID can cause the build up of Propranolol and I ended up in the back of an ambulance with a pulse of 30 and a blood pressure of 225/110 which is insane.
I honest to God almost died…I can’t believe I maintained consciousness even though I was laying flat…the paramedic said I was WHITE-WHITE.
So, I’m home now, but still feel kinda shitty…my BP is still a bit high but not dangerously so.
How anyone can sleep in a fucking hospital is beyond me….damn roommate had a V-Pap machine going all night and then the bed inflates and deflates all night…then they put SCDs on my ankles which inflate and deflate all night…had a pounding heart and bad headache too all night.
Then even 2 hours someone comes in to fuck with you…damn Phlebotomist drew blood every four hours which was close to impossible each time since my pressures were screwy it collapsed my usually popping out veins…ugh…she even stuck me on my pinky-finger knuckle( that one hurt the worst!).
Slept much better last night but the BP isn’t quite under control yet…they had to give me massive amounts of fluid even though it seems contraindicated by a high BP…they basically had to work my kidney to flush out the med causing it.
A BP like this feels like constant anxiety which is quite uncomfy.
Well…my only thoughts were of my girlfriend, my son, and my Mom…honestly, my heart should have either stopped or I should have stroked out…how I didn’t is beyond me.
Nice to be among the living even though I am not really afraid of death - I do not wish to go so soon, and I especially don’t want my loved ones to feel any grief on my behalf.

Wow, that was really close. Glad to hear you're okay.

I've been in and out of hospitals all my life and yes, they suck. Least they don't cost an arm and a leg over here.

 

[Kgal]

So I just got home last night from the hospital…I take a beta-blocking medication Propanolol for the prevention of migraine headaches which I take before bed.
I started taking Indocin which is an old NSAID like Ibuprofen.
Anyhow, turns out that the NSAID can cause the build up of Propranolol and I ended up in the back of an ambulance with a pulse of 30 and a blood pressure of 225/110 which is insane.
I honest to God almost died…I can’t believe I maintained consciousness even though I was laying flat…the paramedic said I was WHITE-WHITE.
So, I’m home now, but still feel kinda shitty…my BP is still a bit high but not dangerously so.
How anyone can sleep in a fucking hospital is beyond me….damn roommate had a V-Pap machine going all night and then the bed inflates and deflates all night…then they put SCDs on my ankles which inflate and deflate all night…had a pounding heart and bad headache too all night.
Then even 2 hours someone comes in to fuck with you…damn Phlebotomist drew blood every four hours which was close to impossible each time since my pressures were screwy it collapsed my usually popping out veins…ugh…she even stuck me on my pinky-finger knuckle( that one hurt the worst!).
Slept much better last night but the BP isn’t quite under control yet…they had to give me massive amounts of fluid even though it seems contraindicated by a high BP…they basically had to work my kidney to flush out the med causing it.
A BP like this feels like constant anxiety which is quite uncomfy.
Well…my only thoughts were of my girlfriend, my son, and my Mom…honestly, my heart should have either stopped or I should have stroked out…how I didn’t is beyond me.
Nice to be among the living even though I am not really afraid of death - I do not wish to go so soon, and I especially don’t want my loved ones to feel any grief on my behalf.

What a horrible ordeal for you to go through... Hospitals scare the shit out of me and yes...they do not seemed to be designed to actually make one well. It seems designed to make the hospital survive an inspection or a lawsuit.

I am delighted you are still here with us Skarekrow.
May you be healed now.

 

[sprinkles]

So I just got home last night from the hospital…I take a beta-blocking medication Propanolol for the prevention of migraine headaches which I take before bed.
I started taking Indocin which is an old NSAID like Ibuprofen.
Anyhow, turns out that the NSAID can cause the build up of Propranolol and I ended up in the back of an ambulance with a pulse of 30 and a blood pressure of 225/110 which is insane.
I honest to God almost died…I can’t believe I maintained consciousness even though I was laying flat…the paramedic said I was WHITE-WHITE.
So, I’m home now, but still feel kinda shitty…my BP is still a bit high but not dangerously so.
How anyone can sleep in a fucking hospital is beyond me….damn roommate had a V-Pap machine going all night and then the bed inflates and deflates all night…then they put SCDs on my ankles which inflate and deflate all night…had a pounding heart and bad headache too all night.
Then even 2 hours someone comes in to fuck with you…damn Phlebotomist drew blood every four hours which was close to impossible each time since my pressures were screwy it collapsed my usually popping out veins…ugh…she even stuck me on my pinky-finger knuckle( that one hurt the worst!).
Slept much better last night but the BP isn’t quite under control yet…they had to give me massive amounts of fluid even though it seems contraindicated by a high BP…they basically had to work my kidney to flush out the med causing it.
A BP like this feels like constant anxiety which is quite uncomfy.
Well…my only thoughts were of my girlfriend, my son, and my Mom…honestly, my heart should have either stopped or I should have stroked out…how I didn’t is beyond me.
Nice to be among the living even though I am not really afraid of death - I do not wish to go so soon, and I especially don’t want my loved ones to feel any grief on my behalf.

I was worried about you because I knew something happened. I don't know why but I noticed you broke routine or something like that and I had a bad feeling about it. Glad you're ok.

 

[Solongo]

I can relate. I often used to despise seemingly oversimplified nuggets of wisdom.

Ironically though I've come to learn that problems are not complicated. People are complicated. I learned through Taoism for example that there really are such simple solutions, but only in the context of completely deconstructing the human condition first along with its propensity to complicate matters.

I completely agree with this. People do make it complicated for themselves because deep down they don't really want to solve their problems. They have grown to enjoy their problems and suffering. Ever try to help someone on their issues and they just spin around and around in their helium filled head; hoping that whining and complaining about it; somebody will come and fix their issues for them? its annoying.

Solutions to problems are simple; but very hard to practice because it requires commitment and discipline. Both which is lacking very much in this western society of ours.

 

[Skarekrow]

Wow, that was really close. Glad to hear you're okay.

I've been in and out of hospitals all my life and yes, they suck. Least they don't cost an arm and a leg over here.

What a horrible ordeal for you to go through... Hospitals scare the shit out of me and yes...they do not seemed to be designed to actually make one well. It seems designed to make the hospital survive an inspection or a lawsuit.

I am delighted you are still here with us Skarekrow.
May you be healed now.

I was worried about you because I knew something happened. I don't know why but I noticed you broke routine or something like that and I had a bad feeling about it. Glad you're ok.

I honestly (having been in the medical field and knowing what all the numbers should and shouldn’t be) should have at least had my heart stop and had to have CPR and all that bullshit…not that it would have done any good with a BP like that I even had the thought of “Hey Universe! Just because I’m interested in near death experiences doesn’t mean I wish to have one myself!"…although that would provide me some finality and faith would no longer be required…but alas…I feel that my pathway will never provide a solid answer that doesn’t have that ingredient in it…and I do have a certain level of faith to be certain.
Thank you for all your kind words…it’s nice to have your support even though we have never met.
And also…thank god that I still have Obamacare, because I would have been fucked royally when I stopped working back in Aug.
It makes me incredibly angry and very sad that there are those out there who would consider me a “freeloader” for having “free” insurance…I can only hope that the Republicans in Congress don’t defund it…I would be incapacitated without the IV infusions I have been getting…I would be bedridden (FYI my Grandfather whom I inherited the arthritis from WAS bedridden for almost 4 years while the arthritis fully fused his spine ((you did NOT want to see the man merge in traffic, he couldn’t turn his head…he would just cross himself and gun it)).
I still feel pretty funky…any little excitement and I can feel my BP rush up…it will take a few days now for the new medication to build up in my system…it peaks at a week, so I’m not stressing that it isn’t working completely yet…getting older fucking blows hahaha.
I actually did think about the forum once or twice during the ordeal, so maybe you felt my Qi crying out…there are many people who believe that the longer you live with someone, the more your particles will become quantumly entangled…this is part of why they feel a mother’s heartbeat will match the child when reunited…but it also would make sense in the same sort of way that people who interact on a regular and constant basis that similar entanglements could occur causing sensitivities to one another…especially is there is already some psychic abilities within one or both individuals.
Thanks again for all your healing words.

 

[Skarekrow]

I completely agree with this. People do make it complicated for themselves because deep down they don't really want to solve their problems. They have grown to enjoy their problems and suffering. Ever try to help someone on their issues and they just spin around and around in their helium filled head; hoping that whining and complaining about it; somebody will come and fix their issues for them? its annoying.

Solutions to problems are simple; but very hard to practice because it requires commitment and discipline. Both which is lacking very much in this western society of ours.

I couldn’t agree more!

 

[Kgal]

…getting older fucking blows hahaha.
I actually did think about the forum once or twice during the ordeal, so maybe you felt my Qi crying out…there are many people who believe that the longer you live with someone, the more your particles will become quantumly entangled…this is part of why they feel a mother’s heartbeat will match the child when reunited…but it also would make sense in the same sort of way that people who interact on a regular and constant basis that similar entanglements could occur causing sensitivities to one another…especially is there is already some psychic abilities within one or both individuals.
Thanks again for all your healing words.

My ex always said "Gettin' old ain't for sissies". :w: I aughta know....because I are one.... an old sissie that is.... Hahahahahaha.

Yes. We are indeed "entangled" in more ways than one might guess.

May I suggest you deviate from the norm and intentionally focus on things that make you laugh or giggle or want to smile? If I was your caregiver I would forbid you from watching the news or reading the news or looking for more reasons to despise the Boomers. No V for Vendetta stuff for you right now young man.

[video=youtube;FGJxDlYHC-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGJxDlYHC-s[/video]

 

[Kgal]

[video=youtube;GCDDS2oDXoI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDDS2oDXoI[/video]

 

[Kgal]

Deepak on healing.

[video=youtube;_gJN7I0a9XU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gJN7I0a9XU&feature=youtu.be[/video]

 

[Kgal]

[video=youtube;Tu3KC4r_hcI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=Tu3KC4r_hcI&x-yt-ts=1421914688#t=87[/video]

 

[Skarekrow]

My ex always said "Gettin' old ain't for sissies". :w: I aughta know....because I are one.... an old sissie that is.... Hahahahahaha.

Yes. We are indeed "entangled" in more ways than one might guess.

May I suggest you deviate from the norm and intentionally focus on things that make you laugh or giggle or want to smile? If I was your caregiver I would forbid you from watching the news or reading the news or looking for more reasons to despise the Boomers. No V for Vendetta stuff for you right now young man.

[video=youtube;FGJxDlYHC-s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGJxDlYHC-s[/video]

[video=youtube;GCDDS2oDXoI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCDDS2oDXoI[/video]

Deepak on healing.

[video=youtube;_gJN7I0a9XU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gJN7I0a9XU&feature=youtu.be[/video]

[video=youtube;Tu3KC4r_hcI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?x-yt-cl=84503534&v=Tu3KC4r_hcI&x-yt-ts=1421914688#t=87[/video]

You are too kind!! Thank you, thank you!
I’m trying to take it easy…now I wonder how long this has been going on? Thought I was dealing with anxiety…but now I think it wasn’t all in my head…it just went to the next level that morning.
What is really interesting though…out of all the days for it to happen it happened on the day when I came in to get my IV infusion and if it wasn’t for the nurse recognizing something serious was happening and taking me to the Urgent Care (then they called the ambulance) I would have been home alone and maybe it didn’t turn out so well.
This one day out of the six week space in-between infusions…amazing.

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[Skarekrow]

[MENTION=6697]apemon[/MENTION] @Jacobi @Kgal @sprinkles @BrokenDaniel @Y0u (I tagged some of you that just gave me thumbs too…because I’m grateful for you all)

FEELING SO MUCH BETTER TODAY!!

Thank God…I couldn’t take anymore days feeling like that (my blood pressure jumping up at any tiny thing) lightheaded, shaky, heart pounding, cold sweats, nausea, limbs felt tied to weights, and had swollen ankles...BP was still around 150/89 when I left the hospital, but I can feel it has gone WAY down today and the swelling went down…what a relief.
Feeling 70%.
Thank you again to all my good friends here.

 

[Skarekrow]

DR. GREGORY SHUSHAN ON CROSS-CULTURAL
COMPARISON OF NEAR-DEATH EXPERIENCES

Alex Tsakiris of Skeptiko interviews religious scholar Dr. Gregory Shushan on the parallels between near-death experience accounts across cultures.
Join Skeptiko host Alex Tsakiris for an interview with author and religious scholar Dr. Gregory Shushan.
During the interview Dr. Shushan offers his opinion on whether or not there is a universal morality to be found in near-death experiences:

​

Alex Tsakiris: I think it is an important issue because the one thing that does strike me a lot is when you look at the contemporary near-death experience accounts, overwhelmingly what these people say beyond all the scholarly chit-chat is hey man, it’s about love.

It’s about this indescribable but universally relatable feeling of love.
That’s what it’s about. Forget everything else…It was about love.

That does seem to come through universally, and I think that has a strong moral kind-of message behind it.
How does that relate to what you’re finding cross-culturally.
Does it fit or does it not fit?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: I think it does in some ways. [In] a lot of Native American accounts, [people] were sent back in order to tell [others] about the goals of the afterlife.
There are also many accounts [where] some kind of traditional ritual has changed, often for the better…against sacrifice or something like that…There might not always be specifically “love” as an [explicit] concept expressed in these texts, but it often [involves] a change for the better…the afterlife is seen as a place of wisdom…so I think it [can be] related to the word “love”…

Click here for Gregory Shushan’s website

Listen Now:
Download MP3 (48 min.)

Read it below:

​

Alex Tsakiris: Today we welcome Dr. Gregory Shushan to Skeptiko. Dr. Shushan is a research-fellow at Oxford’s Ian Ramsey Center for Science and Religion, and the author of the acclaimed Conceptions of the Afterlife in Early Civilizations.

Here’s here to talk about, among other things, what he’s learned about near-death experience from a cross-cultural perspective.
Gregory it’s great to have you on Skeptiko, thanks so much for joining me.

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Well thanks for asking me Alex; great to be here.

Alex Tsakiris: So you were introduced to me and recommended to me by a couple of different Skeptiko listeners.
To kind of fill in some of the gaps and some of the arguments we’ve been having with folks about NDE’s from a cross-cultural perspective.

Then when you sent me some of your work and I dug into it, I found that you’re really going much further beyond the kind-of simple “Is there a cross-cultural phenomenon associate with near-death experiences” [question].

So maybe you better back up and tell us a little bit about your background, and really the scope of the questions you’ve examined in this area.

Dr. Gregory Shushan: OK, sure. Well I started out in Eastern Mediterranean Archaeology and Egyptology, and getting into this kind-of research, NDE’s cross-culturally, was really…[I just kind of] stumbled [upon it].

I was reading Egyptian afterlife texts — the Book of the Dead,Coffin Texts, and Pyramid Texts, and just started thinking of them in terms of NDE’s.
I just started seeing similarities in them, to NDE. Then I remembered a book by Carol Zaleski called Otherworld Journeys where she looks at medieval European visionary texts about, usually, monks going into afterlife realms and coming back.

She looked at those and their relation to NDE’s, and I kind-of thought, there is a similarity with the ancient Egyptian texts and with European medieval afterlife texts, and modern near-death experiences.

What’s going on here, basically?
So I did a project comparing the Egyptian and Vedic Indian afterlife beliefs, in the context of NDE.

That kind of snowballed and I added ancient China, Sumeria, Babylonia, Mesopotamia, [as well as] Aztec and Mayan Mezzo-America.

Dr. Shushan further elucidates his transition toward the study of near-death experiences, as well as some of the professional obstacles he’s faced in doing cross-cultural comparison of NDE’s – [6min.02sec-12min.35sec]:

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Alex Tsakiris: So then what drove you?
You started with the Egyptian Book of the Deadand other accounts.

What were you thinking as you went from one to the other?
How much of a background did you have on modern current-day near-death experience research?

Was this kind-of an “AHA it’s all right here in history,” as well?
Or how did that kind of evolve your understanding of it?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: [I had a] a fairly casual familiarity with near-death experiences.
I had kind-of browsed Raymond Moody’s Life After Life and just kind of was always interested in that kind-of-thing but not from an academic level.

I was also interested in lucid dreaming.
When I was a kid I had all these books about weird phenomenon…but it just kind of triggered something.

Not so much on a level of, maybe if these ancient texts are describing similar types of things, then maybe that means they’re true.
It was more along the lines of: Why were they describing things that were similar to near-death experiences, [and why were they] having these kinds of experiences themselves?

Alex Tsakiris: Right.
So where did this research take you next?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: I guess I should back up a little bit and make clear that almost all of the texts I’ve been looking at in these ancient civilizations, they’re not documentary texts where there’s a specific historical individual who’s referred to…it was really [about general] religious beliefs in an afterlife.

Essentially I was trying to understand why those beliefs in an afterlife across cultures could have a certain set of similarities, and realize the same set of similarities corresponded to nine or ten elements of near-death experience.

So that’s when I started thinking, “This can’t be a coincidence.”
So I could explain the similarities by reference to a consistent experience, but you can’t really look at it the other way around because saying that all of these societies had similar beliefs, and they must have resulted in similar experiences.

It’s a chicken-and-egg kind-of question.

Alex Tsakiris: Of course, of course.
And then this is kind-of interesting because it gives us a little bit of a window into the world of the kind-of stuff that a person in the department of religion would do; or look at it from these kind-of perspective then, right?

So this gets back to your grounding in terms of being a religious scholar.

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Well, one would think so, but…actually at first I was an archaeology major…[and] it was only when I moved over to religious studies that I started seeing that this kind-of thing just isn’t done (laughing).

This is pretty frowned upon. I mean in the department I was at, which is the University of Wales, they were very open-minded and they have a research center for religious experience, and things like that.

But, in the broader field there was really a lot of theoretical opposition for a number of reasons, and the first being you’re not supposed to do cross-cultural comparison anymore. That’s because this notion that all religions and all cultures are unique.

Religion being a cultural phenomenon…and therefore there is nothing really objectively to compare.
You might as well compare one society’s beliefs to another’s politics…

Alex Tsakiris: Interesting; fascinating.

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Yeah.
This is because it’s a kind-of understandable reaction to theological studies.

Early in religious studies a lot of cross-cultural comparisons held Christianity as the kind-of top-liner with Egyptian down at the bottom…this pyramid going up to the divine truth. So there were a lot of errors made in cross-cultural comparison in the early days, and a lot of really sloppy methodology [and] overgeneralizations of people.

For example, [the assumption] everyone in the world believes in an afterlife…and that’s just not the case.
So because of all that it just got a really bad name, and the sort-of post-modernist reaction is “We don’t compare anymore, we don’t do that”.

Alex Tsakiris: Right.
You know that really fills in one of the gaps I had in looking at the very interesting research paper that you sent me that’s soon to be published in Method and Theory and the Study of Religion — a journal I of course had never heard of before you sent it to me.

But like we were chatting about a little bit before the interview began, what struck me is that you had to start from the standpoint of defending the idea that there is such a thing as a religious or mystical experience at all.

And it struck me as, wait a minute; I would assume it’s the complete opposite of that.
That the assumption is yes, of course, we understand that people are experiencing these things and we can call it what we like, but for the most part it’d be commonly accepted that they are mystical, they are religious.

And yet, there’s seems like a hostility to that idea.
Can you dig into that a little bit for us?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Sure, yeah, that was/is another huge methodological error…not only do I compare cross-culturally, but I’m open to the idea that there can be an experience which, cross-culturally, is interpreted as being “religious”….again the hostility or opposition to that idea is based upon…if you say there’s some sort of universal experience, which is religious, then that starts leading to the idea that maybe those experiences have some root in a divine reality, or a god, or whatever kind of terminology you want to use.

From my perspective it doesn’t. It can be experiences that people genuinely think are religious but don’t necessarily have a divine origin.
I’m not saying that they don’t, but I’m not saying that they do either (laughing).

That’s almost like a side argument to me…

Later, Dr. Shushan offers his opinion on how modern NDE research helps to inform cross-cultural analysis, and also speculates on where various culture’s afterlife beliefs originated – [13min.10sec — 18min.07sec]:

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Did belief in the afterlife begin with people recounting/sharing their near-death experiences?


Alex Tsakiris: So how might current near-death experience science and the understanding we’re gaining, help get us out of this mess.
Because I think that’s where you’re coming from to a certain extent.

You’re kind of pointing back to the current science and saying, “Hey, wait a minute, there’s some real stuff here.”…and say this stuff is real, no let’s figure out how it fits back into our historical accounts.

Is that kind of what you’re doing?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Yeah, that’s a good summary.
I mean there’s sort-of two branches of this science.

There’s a science of people Peter Fenwick and Sam Parnia, or Pim Van Lommel who are doing these studies where they’re placing symbols above eye-level in cardiac arrest wards and hoping people fly out of their bodies and identify them.

So, there’s that kind of thing. But I’m more on the social science end of things where I [view] what I’m doing as a science, because it’s a scientific comparison looking at the scope of texts and trying to find out what is actually in these texts [and] what these people were saying. [Rather than] starting with some philosophical assumption that I’m supposed to have as 21st century western academic, and then impose that [view] on the text that I’m looking at.

That’s another unpopular thing; the whole idea that there can be an…objectivity to these kinds of texts…it’s not a very popular [idea].

Alex Tsakiris: Wow, your hands are tied every which way (laughing).
But it does seem like kind-of a really interesting twist to say, well we can be grounded in what we’re discovering from current accounts.

I think Sam Parnia and Peter Fenwick, and the little things above the bed, are fine.
But I think a broader understanding of near-death experience science that includes good solid medical surveying.

Which as anyone knows is really the bedrock of medicine, if you want to go study someone’s pain, or someone’s depression, you ask them questions and you say, “What happened,” and we have a very scientific way of doing that.

So, I almost think that’s the other part of this, is you have some grounding in that kind-of research, a little bit softer science but the results of that are pretty overwhelming in terms of the reality of a phenomenon being that near-death experience, the characteristics of a phenomenon, we have the Greyson scale which is the near-death-experience scale in which we can measure the depth of the phenomenon.

And I imagine that’s just like great fuel for your work to back and say…how does this match up to these ancient texts?
And it sounds like you’re finding in a lot of ways they do.

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Absolutely.
In my current research which is looking at indigenous societies around the world, mostly Native North America, Africa, and the Pacific, looking at their afterlife beliefs in relation to near-death experiences in a much more focused way, because there are some many accounts of near-death experiences from the societies, that I look at them, and then I look at how they compare to their afterlife beliefs.

So it’s almost a reverse process…a lot less speculation.
And the interesting thing I’m finding here is that there [are] really broad sort-of similarities from these few different parts of the world.

So, with American Indians…and by the way I should go back and say that because most of the world’s indigenous populations have converted to some non-indigenous religion, I’ve limited to what I’m looking at too early ethnographies and early [missionary accounts]…so what I’ve found so far is that with American Indians it’s really just a model of this idea that people have near-death experiences and similar kinds of extraordinary experiences and base their beliefs on them…I think I found about 70-75 North American NDE’s which haven’t been noticed before in near-death studies.

They’re all out there in the literature but no one’s really recognized them as such.
And out of those 70-75 there were over twenty where the [indigenous] people themselves…[said] “This is where we got our afterlife beliefs.”

We believe what we do because this person, so-and-so, died, came back to life, and told us what it’s like on the other side.
That’s a big argument against a lot of what’s going on with post-modernism [in the] academic world…

Alex and Dr. Shushan then discuss whether there is some sort of universal morality, or consistent message of “Love”, expressed in most near-death experiences – [27min.10sec-34min.05sec]:

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Is the feeling/sensation of “Love” the core message of near-death experiences across cultures?


Dr. Gregory Shushan: To get back to the question of…the reality of these experiences, the metaphysical reality, how people should live their lives, and what we should believe.
I think that the difficult thing about my work specifically, in relation to that question, is that it could actually be used to support either the theory that these are genuine experiences indicating a real afterlife or metaphysical reality…or it can be used to support [the] dying brain, physiological hypothesis.

And I think that’s the problem in general [with] cross-cultural studies of NDE’s; they can be used either way.

Alex Tsakiris: Where I thought you were going to go with that…because I’m not sure I can quite get there from your research, in terms of the dying brain.
I mean there’s a physiology associated with a dying brain that just doesn’t match up with these experiences.

And of course we don’t know the exact circumstances of the medical trauma [they were] going through in 1700’s or whenever some of these accounts were.
But we know from contemporary accounts that doesn’t fit…so we have somebody who experiences drowning, and they have a prolonged kind-of gradual reduction of blood-flow to the brain, and they experience it exactly the same way as someone that jumps off the Golden Gate Bridge, and isn’t in any real physical trauma, and yet they have similar experiences.

Then we have cardiac arrest, and people who are under anesthesia, and not under anesthesia.
So when you look at the broad diversity of medical conditions, it seems to me that that informs your work and says hey, dying brain would be kind-of the last thing that I’d layer on there.

But where I thought you were going was, I think it can be used maybe to say there isn’t any “reality” to an afterlife that would have any meaning in any religious/spiritual sense; that it’s just kind-of a grab bag.

So, something’s happening there, but there’s nothing to hold onto in terms of having any specific religious or even moral kind of beliefs.

Dr. Gregory Shushan: I’m not sure about that because I think a really important [point] about these experiences across cultures is that they are always — and I use that term cautiously, it’s [more like] almost always — interpreted as just what they seem to be; being this is what happens when you die.

Thereby also apparently demonstrating that when you die you can leave your body…[thereby demonstrating a kind of] dualism…
Then as far as morality goes, ethical systems and things like that, those are very culturally situated so…in one society people who die in battle, or women who die in childbirth, and suicides, will get a better afterlife than everybody else because they lived an exemplary life according to that particular culture.

So, there are still often ethical systems related to NDE’s and afterlife beliefs…even though…there might not be one particular objective morality universal to everyone in the world…but [NDE’s do] seem to have relevance to those beliefs.

Alex Tsakiris: That’s a very interesting point to me because I think from the contemporary NDE accounts it does seem that you can tease out some kind of morality play there. Certainly beyond the reductionist there’s-no-meaning-to-anything, no good, no bad, it’s all meaningless.

I mean there’s definitely meaning there, and going one step further by saying “Is there a morality, is there a universal good there?” I don’t know.
What is your take of both contemporary accounts, and then I guess where you’re really pointing to and saying, whether there is or not in contemporary accounts, you’re having a harder time finding that in the kind-of historical accounts across cultures, is that what you’re saying?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Yeah, I mean I guess you can tease out a certain kind of [morality play]…obviously I’m leaning toward good rather than bad (laughing).
What is good is often similar between cultures, and bad is often similar…having a good family, and enough to eat, is good…

Alex Tsakiris: I think it is an important issue because the one thing that does strike me a lot is when you look at the contemporary near-death experience accounts, overwhelmingly what these people say beyond all the scholarly chit-chat is hey man, it’s about love.

It’s about this indescribable but universally relatable feeling of love.
That’s what it’s about.

Forget everything else.
Forget about the chariot I was on, and my hair’s shaped as a pope’s hat or whatever.

It was about love.
That does seem to come through universally, and I think that has a strong moral kind-of message behind it.

How does that relate to what you’re finding cross-culturally.
Does it fit or does it not fit?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: I think it does in some ways.
[In] a lot of Native American accounts, [people] were sent back in order to tell [others] about the goals of the afterlife.

There are also many accounts [where] some kind of traditional ritual has changed, often for the better…against sacrifice or something like that…There might not always be specifically “love” as an [explicit] concept expressed in these texts, but it often [involves] a change for the better…the afterlife is seen as a place of wisdom…so I think it [can be] related to the word “love”…

Toward the end of their dialogue, Alex questions Dr. Shushan on how his scholarship might help improve methodology in current NDE research, as well as how he delineates between NDE’s and psychedelically-induced visionary experience – [35min.05sec-44min.35sec]

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Where should we draw the line between psychedelic communion and near-death experience?


Alex Tsakiris: We’ve touched on this a little bit, but I was wondering if we could pull it out more directly.
What do you think are some specific implications for your research as it relates to contemporary near-death experience researchers?

What can you tell them?
How can your research inform their research and future directions that we might want to take near-death experience science?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: That’s a touchy question (laughing).
As someone who has done all his NDE research within a mainstream academic context, I’ve really limited the questions I’ve looked at to the relationship between beliefs and near-death experiences…

…I will say that when someone starts discussing this question with me from a perspective of total absolute belief, I will usually raise some issues that might seem like a challenge to their whole metaphysical [belief in] NDE…but if someone comes to me really, really skeptical and says there’s no way, this is [all physical], then I will argue even more vociferously that you just can’t say that.

I will say that as you indicated all these theories about dying brains, things like hypoxia…or REM intrusion, or the awakening brain, or any of these things, not a single one of them actually works.

None of them really addresses NDE in all their similarities and all their differences across cultures.
So the differences really challenge the physiological theories.

I think that’s where one of the ways my research can contribute to the current debate on the question of whether these are real or not, because scientists really need to address why there are differences across cultures if this is a purely physiological, [epiphenomenal] experience…

Alex Tsakiris: …One point we didn’t quite get into but we kind-of touched on in the email exchange we had is I definitely see where you’re going there, but don’t you have to broaden it a little bit with…I mean people are having all sorts of different spiritually transformative experiences that…I don’t have any fact-based way to back this up or any archaeological/anthropological work, but that seems to be the commonly accept belief, that people have all sorts of shamanic experiences, hallucinogenic experiences, as well as near-death experiences.

And all those experiences are informing the culture and in particular the religious beliefs.
Isn’t it broader than just near-death experiences?
Or you’re not specifically saying that?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: No, I am.
In fact I have come across [all kinds of psychic phenomenon]…even going back to the 19th century, Andrea Lang who wrote the fairy books as well, she wrote a book about this very thing — that a lot of traditional societies got their beliefs specifically from psychical experiences.

David Hoffer who was the person who discovered sleep paralysis as a cross-cultural phenomenon in the 80s and it’s a very similar kind of thing.
People experience a broadly similar phenomenon — feel like you’re being held down…you can’t move, and there’s some literal presence in the room.

He found accounts or this all over the world, and [successfully] identified it as a physiological thing that is actually identifiable in the brain….

Alex Tsakiris: That’s the point that’s so interesting to me.
It is easily explained.

Just like the psychedelic is easily explained — it’s some kind of biochemical reaction in the brain.
Until (laughing) you come along and say well wait a minute, no, there is this near-death experience, there is this genuine mystical experience, and then it causes us to reexamine the whole lot.

That’s what’s always been interesting to me about the atheistic/materialistic perspective on psychedelics.
They’re like…that explains everything…Indians were walking behind cows, they ate mushrooms, they tripped out, they wrote it down, that’s how they got their religion.

And it’s like…that’s great, except it doesn’t explain this whole other experience over here that totally blows that out of the water.
Then you have an and/both kind-of thing that no one has really tried to tackle because…what is the relationship between the psychedelic experience and the near-death experience?

On a spiritual level, on the level that you’re talking about, that’s the work that we really have to do because a lot of people in the near-death community, or in the spiritual “New Age” community — I hate to say new age, everyone hates that — but in the spiritual community have a hard time with the psychedelic experience…they say no…that’s induced, that isn’t natural.

God didn’t come down and actually talk to you because you were eating that root or that mushroom.
And that has to be reexamined too as right?

Dr. Gregory Shushan: Yeah…it’s the same with…the shamanic experiences, especially in Native North America, where they [take drugs]…[and there is] drumming, and dancing, and all that; which then results in very similar experiences to the near-death experience.

The shaman moves his body and goes through various transitions, and goes to another world.
Basically [he/she] replicates an NDE.

The question is, is that the same experience as an NDE even though it’s essentially culturally induced and deliberately replicated, whereas an NDE is spontaneous.
I guess the question is: Who Knows?

But I do tend to give some kind of priority to the NDE just as a researcher because of the fact it at least begins as a non-cultural event…