Merkabah

[Eventhorizon]

Can you all do me a favor. Your discussions center on continued existence. Cwn you figure out a way someone can cease to exist permanently for all time in your search? I dislike the idea of reincarnation. I dislike the idea of living when I choose not to.

 

[apemon]

Quote from 'Spiritual Warfare" by Jed McKenna. all 3 books worth reading.

 

[Kgal]

Can you all do me a favor. Your discussions center on continued existence. Cwn you figure out a way someone can cease to exist permanently for all time in your search? I dislike the idea of reincarnation. I dislike the idea of living when I choose not to.

Time does not exist in the higher frequencies. Once you raise your frequency - you won't exist 'there' like you do 'here'. Hence you will cease to exist permanently for all 'time'.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Time does not exist in the higher frequencies. Once you raise your frequency - you won't exist 'there' like you do 'here'. Hence you will cease to exist permanently for all 'time'.

Great...that sounds vaguely like existing in a different way but still existing.

 

[apemon]

Great...that sounds vaguely like existing in a different way but still existing.

Exactly. Like a ghost. Seen but unseen. Moving more in the world I begin to notice. Strange, but with no judgement on it it hardly matters.

 

[apemon]

Time does not exist in the higher frequencies. Once you raise your frequency - you won't exist 'there' like you do 'here'. Hence you will cease to exist permanently for all 'time'.

Hello dear hope you are well. Yah time is screwy, people are screwy, and I see that there is some settling in to do. My SO is full of fear and increasing distance, understanding is limited. Closed off much as well. I will do what I can in this.

Namaste

 

[Kgal]

Great...that sounds vaguely like existing in a different way but still existing.

In the absolute largest sense...You are everything. You are the One. You are the Universe. You are the Creator.

We exist within the parameters of the universe at different frequencies.

Hmmm...I keep getting the urge to tell you to revisit Holograms and Fractals.
[shrugs]

 

[Skarekrow]

Can you all do me a favor. Your discussions center on continued existence. Cwn you figure out a way someone can cease to exist permanently for all time in your search? I dislike the idea of reincarnation. I dislike the idea of living when I choose not to.

You can disappear…
In my studies of NDEs there are clear pathways that that person can take that he/she knows will wipe him/her off the face of existence.
I severely doubt though, that once there you will choose to take that path.
Perhaps that is why you are in this current life…to learn to be content with life (as fucking difficult as that is)?

 

[Eventhorizon]

You can disappear…
In my studies of NDEs there are clear pathways that that person can take that he/she knows will wipe him/her off the face of existence.
I severely doubt though, that once there you will choose to take that path.
Perhaps that is why you are in this current life…to learn to be content with life (as fucking difficult as that is)?

Anything is possible. I just want the choice. Perhaps in knowing I have a choice I would choose differently. Its the idea of being forced to live somewhere or in some way that is negative to my sanity that is unbearable to think of.

 

[Skarekrow]

Anything is possible. I just want the choice. Perhaps in knowing I have a choice I would choose differently. Its the idea of being forced to live somewhere or in some way that is negative to my sanity that is unbearable to think of.

Kind of like we are here.
Yeah, I get that…I have that issue too…that is why I turned away from organized religion.
I believe we have the choice…at least from my own understanding.
There are certain things that strike me…the first is that these experiences have documented proof that someone left their body.
There was a young girl who came back and told about how she left her body, she told the nurse there was a shoe on the ledge on such in such floor outside a certain window….and sure enough there was a shoe there.
But conversations that took place in other rooms where the person had they still been able to hear, couldn’t anyhow.
But that they are ultra-vivid…even more vivid than our existence here…and unlike most memories we have, these don’t seem to dissipate from memory in NDEers.
When they return to their body, it seems sluggish, dull, unreal for many of them.
The second is that love is the fabric of the universe…that was the basis for the Bible before all the hullabaloo got changed and omitted and perverted.
The golden rule…and supposedly we will get to feel those reverberations we produce in ourselves and other’s.
So here is the thing…that is not so incredible in and of itself…but unlike someone who just sees hallucinations on an LSD trip these experiences have changed people to the core….to the point that marriages fell apart, great wealth was given away, they basically walked the walk that Jesus preached without all the fire and brimstone added in by today’s religious rule.
And that is also the same set of ways to act in Buddhism…and it goes across the core of all the religions in the world, because they are all based on people who have had a near death experience…except 2000 year ago they called them “prophets” instead of kooks.
From what I know, we have a choice.

 

[Skarekrow]

Here are some theoretical models of how the human mind may interact with our physical universe.

Theoretical Models

I. Theoretical Models

Nearly three decades of intense experimentation leave little doubt that the anomalous physical phenomena appearing in the PEAR studies are valid, and are significantly correlated with such subjective variables as intention, meaning, resonance, and uncertainty.

The stark inconsistencies of these results with established physical and psychological presumptions place extraordinary demands on the development of competent new theoretical models for constructive dialogue with the empirical data.

But since the contemporary scientific approach leaves little room for such subjective correlates in its mechanistic representations of reality, it follows that science as we know it either must exclude itself from study of such phenomena, even when they precipitate objectively observable physical effects, or broaden its methodology and conceptual vocabulary to embrace subjective experience in some systematic way.

The primary importance of operator intention and emotional resonance with the task at hand, along with the operator-specific structure evident in the data, the absence of traditional learning patterns, and the lack of explicit space and time dependence clearly predicate that no direct application or minor alteration of existing physical or psychological frameworks will suffice.

Rather, nothing less than a generously expanded scientific model of reality, one that allows consciousness a proactive role in the establishment of its experience of the physical world, will be required.

The challenges and caveats of such a "Science of the Subjective" are explored in detail in several of our publications.

One such model has been proposed and developed in "On the Quantum Mechanics of Consciousness, With Application to Anomalous Phenomena," under the major premise that the basic processes by which consciousness exchanges information with its environment, orders that information, and interprets it, also enable it to bias probabilistic systems and thereby to avail itself of some control over its reality.

This model regards the concepts that underlie all physical models of reality, particularly those of observational quantum mechanics such as the principles of uncertainty, complementarity, exclusion, indistinguishability, and wave mechanical resonance, as fundamental characteristics of consciousness rather than as intrinsic features of an objective physical environment.

In this view, the "anomalous" phenomena observed in the PEAR experiments become quite normal expectations of bonded human/machine and human/human systems, and the door is opened for all manner of creative consciousness/environment interactions.

In a complementary approach, a modular conceptual framework has been articulated, wherein direct attention of the conscious mind to observable physical processes is bypassed altogether. Instead, an alternative route is proposed, whereby the inherently probabilistic nature of unconscious mind and intangible physical mechanisms are invoked to achieve anomalous acquisition of information about, or anomalous influence upon, otherwise inaccessible material processes (see "A Modular Model of Mind/Matter Manifestations").

Theoretical requisites for its pursuit include better understanding of the dialogue between the conscious and unconscious aspects of the mind; more pragmatic formulations of the relations between tangible and intangible physical processes; and most importantly, cogent representation of the merging of mental and material dimensions into indistinguishability at their deepest levels.

A rudimentary attempt to represent this latter "subliminal seed space" has been attempted in the format of an array of complex vectors whose components embody the pre-objective and pre-subjective aspects of their interactions (M*: Vector Representation of the Subliminal Seed Regime of M5).

Elementary algebraic arguments predict that the degree of anomalous correlation between the emergent conscious experiences and the corresponding tangible events depends only on the alignment of these interacting vectors, i.e., on the correspondence of the ratios of their individual "hard" and "soft" coordinates.

This in turn suggests a subconscious alignment strategy based on need, desire, shared purpose, or personal resonance that is consistent with our empirical experience.

In another closely related approach, entitled "Sensors, Filters, and the Source of Reality," we speak of the need to elevate the subjective capacities of consciousness to complementary status with the more objective physical senses, along with recognition of the bi-directional capabilities of both, thereby allowing establishment of resonant channels of communication between the mind and its ultimate Source that can exceed conventional information processing.

The key elements in tuning these channels to amplify such information creation are the physiological and psychological filters imposed upon them, some of which can be enhanced or altered by conscious or unconscious attention.

Although the concepts and mechanics presented in this array of specific models may seem somewhat disparate, their larger value may lie in the identification of certain common-denominator issues that arise in one form or another in all of them. Taken together, they can provide a comprehensive conceptual framework for an overarching "science of the subjective" that may one day support a yet more fundamental representation of the full panorama of human experience.

 

[apemon]

I started wondering about this as soon as I got to the phrase "tangible reality"

Whose?

The researcher?

Or the subjects?

I can't help it these things seem to be entirely subjective from here.



And is this the right thread?
couldn't help that either.

 

[Skarekrow]

I thought I would put this up since I was talking about it in another thread...

Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science


Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science (PDF)

International Summit on Post-Materialist Science: Summary Report (PDF)
​

We are a group of internationally known scientists, from a variety of scientific fields (biology, neuroscience, psychology, medicine, psychiatry), who participated in an international summit on post-materialist science, spirituality and society. The summit was co-organized by Gary E. Schwartz, PhD and Mario Beauregard, PhD, the University of Arizona, and Lisa Miller, PhD, Columbia University. This summit was held at Canyon Ranch in Tucson, Arizona, on February 7-9, 2014. Our purpose was to discuss the impact of the materialist ideology on science and the emergence of a post-materialist paradigm for science, spirituality, and society. We have come to the following conclusions:

1. The modern scientific worldview is predominantly predicated on assumptions that are closely associated with classical physics. Materialism–the idea that matter is the only reality–is one of these assumptions. A related assumption is reductionism, the notion that complex things can be understood by reducing them to the interactions of their parts, or to simpler or more fundamental things such as tiny material particles.

2. During the 19th century, these assumptions narrowed, turned into dogmas, and coalesced into an ideological belief system that came to be known as "scientific materialism." This belief system implies that the mind is nothing but the physical activity of the brain, and that our thoughts cannot have any effect upon our brains and bodies, our actions, and the physical world.

3. The ideology of scientific materialism became dominant in academia during the 20th century. So dominant that a majority of scientists started to believe that it was based on established empirical evidence, and represented the only rational view of the world.

4. Scientific methods based upon materialistic philosophy have been highly successful in not only increasing our understanding of nature but also in bringing greater control and freedom through advances in technology.

5. However, the nearly absolute dominance of materialism in the academic world has seriously constricted the sciences and hampered the development of the scientific study of mind and spirituality. Faith in this ideology, as an exclusive explanatory framework for reality, has compelled scientists to neglect the subjective dimension of human experience. This has led to a severely distorted and impoverished understanding of ourselves and our place in nature.

6. Science is first and foremost a non-dogmatic, open-minded method of acquiring knowledge about nature through the observation, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. Its methodology is not synonymous with materialism and should not be committed to any particular beliefs, dogmas, or ideologies.

7. At the end of the nineteenth century, physicists discovered empirical phenomena that could not be explained by classical physics. This led to the development, during the 1920s and early 1930s, of a revolutionary new branch of physics called quantum mechanics (QM). QM has questioned the material foundations of the world by showing that atoms and subatomic particles are not really solid objects–they do not exist with certainty at definite spatial locations and definite times. Most importantly, QM explicitly introduced the mind into its basic conceptual structure since it was found that particles being observed and the observer–the physicist and the method used for observation–are linked. According to one interpretation of QM, this phenomenon implies that the consciousness of the observer is vital to the existence of the physical events being observed, and that mental events can affect the physical world. The results of recent experiments support this interpretation. These results suggest that the physical world is no longer the primary or sole component of reality, and that it cannot be fully understood without making reference to the mind.

8. Psychological studies have shown that conscious mental activity can causally influence behavior, and that the explanatory and predictive value of agentic factors (e.g. beliefs, goals, desires and expectations) is very high. Moreover, research in psychoneuroimmunology indicates that our thoughts and emotions can markedly affect the activity of the physiological systems (e.g., immune, endocrine, cardiovascular) connected to the brain. In other respects, neuroimaging studies of emotional self-regulation, psychotherapy, and the placebo effect demonstrate that mental events significantly influence the activity of the brain.

9. Studies of the so-called "psi phenomena" indicate that we can sometimes receive meaningful information without the use of ordinary senses, and in ways that transcend the habitual space and time constraints. Furthermore, psi research demonstrates that we can mentally influence–at a distance–physical devices and living organisms (including other human beings). Psi research also shows that distant minds may behave in ways that are nonlocally correlated, i.e. the correlations between distant minds are hypothesized to be unmediated (they are not linked to any known energetic signal), unmitigated (they do not degrade with increasing distance), and immediate (they appear to be simultaneous). These events are so common that they cannot be viewed as anomolous nor as exceptions to natural laws, but as indications of the need for a broader explanatory framework that cannot be predicated exclusively on materialism.

10. Conscious mental activity can be experienced in clinical death during a cardiac arrest (this is what has been called a "near-death experience" [NDE]). Some near-death experiencers (NDErs) have reported veridical out-of-body perceptions (i.e. perceptions that can be proven to coincide with reality) that occurred during cardiac arrest. NDErs also report profound spiritual experiences during NDEs triggered by cardiac arrest. It is noteworthy that the electrical activity of the brain ceases within a few seconds following a cardiac arrest.

11. Controlled laboratory experiments have documented that skilled research mediums (people who claim that they can communicate with the minds of people who have physically died) can sometimes obtain highly accurate information about deceased individuals. This further supports the conclusion that mind can exist separate from the brain.

12. Some materialistically inclined scientists and philosophers refuse to acknowledge these phenomena because they are not consistent with their exclusive conception of the world. Rejection of post-materialist investigation of nature or refusal to publish strong science findings supporting a post-materialist framework are antithetical to the true spirit of scientific inquiry, which is that empirical data must always be adequately dealt with. Data which do not fit favored theories and beliefs cannot be dismissed a priori. Such dismissal is the realm of ideology, not science.

13. It is important to realize that psi phenomena, NDEs in cardiac arrest, and replicable evidence from credible research mediums, appear anomalous only when seen through the lens of materialism.

14. Moreover, materialist theories fail to elucidate how brain could generate the mind, and they are unable to account for the empirical evidence alluded to in this manifesto. This failure tells us that it is now time to free ourselves from the shackles and blinders of the old materialist ideology, to enlarge our concept of the natural world, and to embrace a post-materialist paradigm.

15. According to the post-materialist paradigm:

a) Mind represents an aspect of reality as primordial as the physical world. Mind is fundamental in the universe, i.e. it cannot be derived from matter and reduced to anything more basic.

b) There is a deep interconnectedness between mind and the physical world.

c) Mind (will/intention) can influence the state of the physical world, and operate in a nonlocal (or extended) fashion, i.e. it is not confined to specific points in space, such as brains and bodies, nor to specific points in time, such as the present. Since the mind may nonlocally influence the physical world, the intentions, emotions, and desires of an experimenter may not be completely isolated from experimental outcomes, even in controlled and blinded experimental designs.

d) Minds are apparently unbounded, and may unite in ways suggesting a unitary, One Mind that includes all individual, single minds.

e) NDEs in cardiac arrest suggest that the brain acts as a transceiver of mental activity, i.e. the mind can work through the brain, but is not produced by it. NDEs occurring in cardiac arrest, coupled with evidence from research mediums, further suggest the survival of consciousness, following bodily death, and the existence of other levels of reality that are non-physical.

f) Scientists should not be afraid to investigate spirituality and spiritual experiences since they represent a central aspect of human existence.

16. Post-materialist science does not reject the empirical observations and great value of scientific achievements realized up until now. It seeks to expand the human capacity to better understand the wonders of nature, and in the process rediscover the importance of mind and spirit as being part of the core fabric of the universe. Post-materialism is inclusive of matter, which is seen as a basic constituent of the universe.

17. The post-materialist paradigm has far-reaching implications. It fundamentally alters the vision we have of ourselves, giving us back our dignity and power, as humans and as scientists. This paradigm fosters positive values such as compassion, respect, and peace. By emphasizing a deep connection between ourselves and nature at large, the post-materialist paradigm also promotes environmental awareness and the preservation of our biosphere. In addition, it is not new, but only forgotten for four hundred years, that a lived transmaterial understanding may be the cornerstone of health and wellness, as it has been held and preserved in ancient mind-body-spirit practices, religious traditions, and contemplative approaches.

18. The shift from materialist science to post-materialist science may be of vital importance to the evolution of the human civilization. It may be even more pivotal than the transition from geocentrism to heliocentrism.

We invite you, scientists of the world, to read the Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science and sign it, if you wish to show your support (see http://opensciences.org/).

* The Manifesto for a Post-Materialist Science was prepared by Mario Beauregard, PhD (University of Arizona), Gary E. Schwartz, PhD (University of Arizona), and Lisa Miller, PhD (Columbia University), in collaboration with Larry Dossey, MD, Alexander Moreira-Almeida, MD, PhD, Marilyn Schlitz, PhD, Rupert Sheldrake, PhD, and Charles Tart, PhD.

**Contact

For further information, please contact Dr Mario Beauregard, Laboratory for Advances in Consciousness and Health, Department of Psychology, University of Arizona, Tucson, USA. Email: mariobeauregard@email.arizona.edu

*** We considered two ways of referring to the emerging paradigm presented in this Manifesto: the hyphenated version (post-materialism) and the non-hyphenated version (postmaterialism). The hyphenated form was selected for the sake of clarity for both scientists and lay people.

**** The Summary Report of the International Summit on Post-Materialist Science, Spirituality and Society can be downloaded here: International Summit on Post-Materialist Science: Summary Report (PDF).

To become a signatory to this manifesto, please email Dr Mario Beauregard with your name, academic degree, fields of study, title and institution.

 

[Skarekrow]

View attachment 22250

I started wondering about this as soon as I got to the phrase "tangible reality"

Whose?

The researcher?

Or the subjects?

I can't help it these things seem to be entirely subjective from here.

View attachment 22251

And is this the right thread?
couldn't help that either.

Theoretical models…they can’t prove them yet.
Just thoughts and ideas.

Edit: Let me rephrase - They can’t prove why or how yet.

 

[sprinkles]

According to one interpretation of QM, this phenomenon implies that the consciousness of the observer is vital to the existence of the physical events being observed, and that mental events can affect the physical world. The results of recent experiments support this interpretation. These results suggest that the physical world is no longer the primary or sole component of reality, and that it cannot be fully understood without making reference to the mind.

Just want to point out on this that experiments have also shown that consciousness is NOT important or necessary for this effect to take place. An electronic device can be the observer and the effect still happens.

I've covered this before. I'm having to do so again because this prevalent misconception refuses to die and continues to misinform people.

 

[Skarekrow]

Just want to point out on this that experiments have also shown that consciousness is NOT important or necessary for this effect to take place. An electronic device can be the observer and the effect still happens.

I've covered this before. I'm having to do so again because this prevalent misconception refuses to die and continues to misinform people.

Yeah, that kind of bothered me too.
I can’t say I agree with everything that they put up…but I do agree that we need to have a boarder view of study within “science” and to not discount theories with solid data because people don’t personally agree with the findings.

There is much better data out there such as the PEARS labs at Princeton…the program is run by rocket scientists and theoretical physicists.
If they believe that the human mind can have subtle influence over RNGs and show their data to have odds extremely heavy in their favor…you have to ask - is there something to it?
Or is all the hullabaloo about there being a scientific taboo true, and the results are being buried because people don’t want to ask those questions?

 

[sprinkles]

Yeah, that kind of bothered me too.
I can’t say I agree with everything that they put up…but I do agree that we need to have a boarder view of study within “science” and to not discount theories with solid data because people don’t personally agree with the findings.

There is much better data out there such as the PEARS labs at Princeton…the program is run by rocket scientists and theoretical physicists.
If they believe that the human mind can have subtle influence over RNGs and show their data to have odds extremely heavy in their favor…you have to ask - is there something to it?
Or is all the hullabaloo about there being a scientific taboo true, and the results are being buried because people don’t want to ask those questions?

I think there is a lot more to discover and that there's merit to all of this, and that we really just don't know - it's even premature to conclude that QM is something more than physical because we probably don't know the full extent of 'physical' especially given the possibility of dimensions we can't see.

IMO the 'taboo stuff' is not really far out at all and is pretty well 'within the box' and unimaginative, stereotypical, and repetitive. The real thing is probably going to end up being way more abstract and incomprehensible, by our standards at this point anyway.

 

[Skarekrow]

Death and the Near-Death Experience​

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​

Near-death experiencers unanimously report losing their fear of death upon return.
Many actually look forward to their own death, a time when they can return to the beautiful realm they experienced.

The NDE changes people's ideas of death forever.
This is true even for many people who only read about the NDE.

Some experiencers were not even aware they died at the time of their NDE.
This demonstrates how insignificant death is really is.

It reveals that death is only a very brief transition from the physical to the spiritual - like walking through a door.

It has also been described by some experiencers to be similar to the process of waking up from a dream the dream being the physical world.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style9, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]1. Introduction[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style11"]One unanimous aspect involving people who have NDEs is that they know absolutely there is life after death. They no longer believe in an afterlife.

They know there is an afterlife.
The idea that near-death accounts provide this knowledge has nothing to do with faith.

Faith implies the possibility of doubt.
Knowledge implies certainty.

NDEs are based on solid knowledge and facts - not faith.
If a million astronauts go to Mars and return to Earth saying that there's Martians living there, it is then that I would know for sure that there's Martians living on Mars.

In the same way, millions of people have returned from death saying that there is life after death.
Can millions of people experiencing the same thing all be wrong?

Isn't it easier to believe they are right?
For this reason, the only rational conclusion is that there is life after death.

Faith and skepticism then becomes irrational.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style9, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]2. When is Death Really Death?[/TD]
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The term "near-death" is a misnomer because the evidence suggests that people actually journey beyond death during near-death experiences.

Philosophically, to say that such experiences are "near-death" is like saying a woman is "near-pregnant."
Either a woman is pregnant or they are not.

Philosophically, it would seem that a person is either dead or they aren't.

The medical definition of "death" has been debated for centuries depending on the culture, social conditions, and the role of the medical profession.

The newest definition (i.e., "brain death") may not yet be adequate for encompassing all of death's meanings.
There is no consensus within the scientific community concerning when conscious life begins.

In the same way, there is no consensus within the scientific community concerning when physical life ends. Determining the precise time of death is, in fact, medically and scientifically impossible according to cardiologist Dr. Michael Sabom who states, It used to be thought that the point of death was a single moment in time.

But it is now thought that death is a process, not a single moment.

But because doctors need something to go by, they have come up with various legal and social definitions over the years for the sake of finality.

Here are the terms we're most familiar with:[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]3. The Classifications of Death[/TD]
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The Classifications of Death
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]a.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Heart-Lung Failure: This was the traditional definition of death until advances in medical technology made it possible for people to survive this condition.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]b.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Clinical Death: The patient's breathing and heartbeat stops but they might still be able to be resuscitated with CPR or other means, depending on why the vital signs ceased and under what conditions it occurred[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]c.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Lower brain death: The brain stem controlling the automatic functions of the body stops working. The length of time which the brain stem must be inactive before a person is declared legally dead varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Complicating the issue, the same person can be considered legally dead if about to become an organ donor, but legally alive if not.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]d.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Higher Brain Death: The brain stem still functions, keeping the heart, lungs and digestive system working, but the sensing, thinking part of the brain has shut down. When such a "person" is dead, the body might still be functioning. But for all practical intents and purposes, there is no ethical reason to keep the body alive.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]e.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Whole Brain Death: Both lower and higher brain functions have ceased. This definition was first developed by the ad hoc committee at Harvard Medical School in 1968. In 1980, hospitals were permitted to begin using it as a determination of death in patients. But even though a person might suffer from whole brain death, they can still have a heartbeat which only ends due to the failure of the lungs. If the lungs are forced to keep breathing, such people can continue to digest food, excrete waste, and even bear children. Whether or not such people are "dead" is currently up for political debate.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]f.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Biological Death: This is when permanent cellular damage occurs to the brain due to a lack of oxygen. By definition, this process is irreversible and final. By definition only, nobody has ever returned to life from this condition.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16, align: center"]g.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Metaphysical Death: This occurs when the silver cord breaks during a NDE. The silver cord is the "umbilical" which connects the physical body to the spirit body. Once this cord is broken, returning to the physical body is impossible.[/TD]
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​

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[TD="class: auto-style20"]Whichever definition science ultimately agrees on will influence how people are treated in hospitals, how people get organs for transplant, whether women have abortions, and when doctors perform stem-cell research - not to mention the implications within religious, philosophical and metaphysical circles.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]4. Perhaps the Best Case of a Person Surviving Death[/TD]
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Pam Reynolds met all the criteria for surviving whole brain death.
While in this state, she experienced an extraordinary NDE.

Because her death was not final, it cannot be said that she survived "biological" death.

However, her case provides an excellent example of how there is nothing "near" about the so-called "near-death" experience.

Pam's extraordinary NDE occurred while undergoing a rare surgical procedure to remove a brainaneurysm.
The procedure required her to be:[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16"]a.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Put unconscious using an anesthetic.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16"]b.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Her body temperature lowered to 60 degrees.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16"]c.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Her heart and breathing stopped.[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16"]d.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]Her brain waves allowed to flatten[/TD]
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[TD="class: auto-style16"]e.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style15"]The blood drained from her head.[/TD]
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[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style4"]While in this condition, she floated out of her body and watched the doctors operate on her lifeless body.

Later, she was able to describe the surgical instruments, the conversation, and the procedures performed during her surgery.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style21"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]5. NDEs are not Exactly Identical but Common Elements can be Found[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style20"]Some skeptics claim NDEs are not real real afterlife experiences because they are not identical.
On the other hand, other skeptics claim NDEs are not real afterlife experiences because they are "hard-wired" in the brain which explains the similarities.

Which is true?
In my opinion, neither. Here is why:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style18, align: center"][TABLE="class: auto-style14, width: 710, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style16"]a.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style27"]No Experience on Earth is Exactly Identical:

Think of the near-death experience as you would any Earth experience. Everyone's perspective is unique from everyone else. Yet, there are similarities to Earthly experiences. People go to work, go to school, live in homes, have sex, eat, sleep, practice religion, travel, visit family and friends, etc. Despite these similarities, no two Earth experiences are identical.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style16"]b.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style26"]No Near-Death Experience is Exactly Identical:

Some people travel back in time, meet a worshipped religious figure, travel the universe, view their past lives, meet future children, etc. Everyone has a unique perspective. Yet, common aspects can be found in NDEs. (Kevin Williams)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style21"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]6. Common Aspects Found in NDEs[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style20"]Within a number of NDEs a pattern becomes evident.
This pattern can be found in children's NDEs as well.
The pattern (and any single experience) includes one or more of these things:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style18, align: center"][TABLE="class: auto-style14, width: 710, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]a.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Feeling that the "self" has left the body and is hovering overhead. Sometimes a "silver cord" is seen connected to the body. Sometimes the person may later be able to describe who was where and what happened, sometimes in detail. Some people who were born blind can see while out of their body.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]b.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Moving through a dark space or tunnel and having a sense of timelessness. Sometimes the Earth can be seen from outer space.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]c.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Experiencing intensely powerful emotions, ranging from bliss to terror. Sometimes heavenly music is heard.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]d.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Encountering a light. It is usually described as golden, or white, and as being magnetic and loving; occasionally it is perceived as a reflection of the fires of hell.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]e.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Receiving some variant of the message, "It is not yet your time" from a heavenly being by means of mental telepathy.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]f.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Meeting others; may be deceased loved ones, recognized from life or not; sacred beings; pets; guides; angels; orbs; unidentified entities and/or "Beings of Light"; sometimes symbols from one's own or other religious traditions.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]g.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]A life review, seeing and re-experiencing major and trivial events of one's life, sometimes from the perspective of the other people involved, and coming to some conclusion about the adequacy of that life and what changes are needed.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]h.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Having a sense of understanding everything, of knowing how the universe works.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]i.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style91"]Reaching a boundary “ a cliff, fence, water, some kind of barrier that may not be crossed if one is to return to life. "[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]j.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]In some cases, entering a city or library or receiving station.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]k.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Rarely, receiving previously unknown information about one's life “ i.e., adoption or hidden parentage, deceased siblings. Some bring back scientific discoveries. Some bring back knowledge concerning the future. Some bring back knowledge of past lives. Some bring back information concerning astrology.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]l.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Decision to return may be voluntary or involuntary. If voluntary, it usually associated with unfinished responsibilities.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]m.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Returning to life and to the body. Afterward, an increase in spirituality may be found. Often, dramatic changes within the person are discovered.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]n.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Some interesting facts concerning NDEs are: A group of people can die together and share the same NDE. Some NDEs have occurred when the brain is verified to be dead. NDEs have been occurring for thousands of years. They happen to people of all backgrounds (see below).[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style88"]o.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style87"]Most near-death experiences are pleasant, but others are deeply frightening. For additional information about frightening near-death experiences, contact IANDS (International Association for Near-Death Studies) for a special publication.[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style21"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]7. Unusual Facts about Near-Death Experiences[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style18, align: center"][TABLE="class: auto-style14, width: 90%, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]a.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]Many Hollywood stars have reported experiencing a NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]b.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A group of people can die together and share the same NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]c.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A woman born blind was able to see during her NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]d.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]Many people see deceased pets in heaven and communicate with them telepathically.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]e.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]One man in particular had thousands of NDEs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]f.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A man observed events on Earth occurring hundreds of miles away from his body.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]g.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]Infants and children have NDEs that are similar to adult NDEs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]h.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]Scientific discoveries are brought back from NDEs.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]i.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]One man was dead for three days and returned to life.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]j..[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A man traveled back into time and lived in the past.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]k.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]Some people discover reincarnation during a NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]l.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]One woman had a NDE due to a sexual orgasm.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]m.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]One woman saw all three of her bodies: physical, soul, spirit.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]n.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A woman saw her children's' future.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]o.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]One woman met a man during her NDE who was her future son yet unborn.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]p.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A woman saw her baby in heaven during her NDE - a baby that was previously miscarried.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]q.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A woman saw the "Angel of Death" during her NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]r.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]One particular child saw an angel turn into a mermaid during her NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]s.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A man saw Jesus on a cross in heaven.
Another man traveled back in time to witness the actual crucifixion of Jesus.
Another man traveled back into time and momentarily lived in the minds of Jesus and his disciples. All three of these occurred during a NDE.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]t.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]A man saw the Being of Light change into many different religious characters such as Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, etc.[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"]u.[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style99, align: left"]NDEs happen to people of all backgrounds:[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style30"][/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style16"][TABLE="width: 650, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Accountants[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Business people[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Fighter pilots[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Jewish people[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Pastors[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Africans[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Catholics[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]French[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Medieval people[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Policemen[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Alien abductees[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Children[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Gays/Lesbians[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Meditators[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Professors[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Apostles[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Christians[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Geologists[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Mentally ill[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Psychics[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Atheists[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Comatose[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Germans[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Movie stars[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Psychologists[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Australians[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Doctors[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Greeks[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Musicians[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Russians[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Blind people[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Dreamers[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Group of firefighters[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Muslims[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Soldiers[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]British[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Drug users[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Hindus[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Native Americans[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Suicides[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Buddhists[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Epileptics[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Housewives[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"]Nurses[/TD]
[TD="class: auto-style98, align: left"][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style21"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]8. NDE Researchers' Comment on the Near-Death Experience[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style18, align: center"][TABLE="class: auto-style14, width: 710, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]"One of the near-death experience truths is that each person integrates their near-death experience into their own pre-existing belief system." (Jody Long)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]"There are so many different descriptions of NDEs because there are so many different perceptions, perspectives, beliefs, biases, backgrounds, and afterlife realms to fit them." (Kevin Williams)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]"Childhood NDEs are similar to adult NDEs." (P.M.H. Atwater)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]People born blind have NDEs which are similar to sighted people. However, people born blind see for the first time in their lives during their NDEs. But they do not retain their sight when they return to their bodies. (Dr. Kenneth Ring)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]"Our life on Earth can be thought of as one channel on a radio. At death, it is as if someone spins the dial on the radio to a different channel. The previous channel is still there, but we are now experiencing a different channel. That is all death is - a change to another channel. We go to that particular channel where our speed of vibration fits a particular channel on the radio dial." (P.M.H. Atwater)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]"There exists a point of no return during the NDE and once this barrier is crossed, returning to our body is impossible." (Dr. Kenneth Ring)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style102"]"All physical and mental handicaps are corrected immediately after death." (Dr. Kenneth Ring)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style21"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style22, bgcolor: #F4F4FF"]9. Near-Death Experiencers Comment on Death[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style18, align: center"][TABLE="class: auto-style14, width: 710, align: center"]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"If I lived a billion years more, in my body or yours, there's not a single experience on Earth that could ever be as good as being dead. Nothing." (Dr. Dianne Morrissey)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death makes us more alive. We are more dead now while alive on Earth than we are when we are physically dead." (P.M.H. Atwater)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death is just a body problem." (Chuck Griswold)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Life does not end when we die. Death is a rebirth into a spirit world of light and love, a transition from the physical to the spiritual that is no more frightening or painful than passing between rooms through an open doorway. It is a joyful homecoming to our natural home." (Betty Eadie)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death means losing your physical body. Nothing else is lost." (P.M.H. Atwater)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death is leaving your physical body and facing God. We then become pure Mind. Our minds become naked in that our thoughts are there for all to understand perfectly." (Dr. George Ritchie)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Birth is a sleep and a forgetting. Death is an awakening and a remembering." (Josiane Antonette)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Birth in the physical is death in the spiritual. Death in the physical is the birth in the spiritual." (Edgar Cayce)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death is a process similar to waking up from a dream." (John Star)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death is like falling asleep or like waking up. We leave one state of consciousness and enter another." (Joni Maggi)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death means dying to the physical world. It also means being born into the spirit world. When we are born into this physical world, we fall asleep and forget who we really are. When we are born into the spirit world, we awaken and remember who we really are." (Edgar Cayce)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death is actually a rebirth into a greater life of understanding and knowledge that stretches forward and backward in time." (John Star)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Life and death are one, and only those who will consider the experience as one may come to understand or comprehend what peace indeed means." (Edgar Cayce)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"The memory of a NDE is more real than the memory of what one did yesterday." (Dr. Rene Turner)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"I knew with total certainty that everything was evolving exactly the way it should and that the ultimate destiny for every living being is to return to the Source, the Light, Pure Love." (Juliet Nightingale)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Immediately after death, the connection to our humanity begins to wear off and an experience of being light as air, extremely happy and in love begins to happen." (Karen Schaeffer)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"The Being of Light can be called Jesus, Buddha, Yahweh, the Great Spirit, our Higher Self, etc. which can be a feedback of our own religious perspective. The name of the Light Being does not matter. Only the recognition of absolute love and truth is important." (Mellen-Thomas Benedict)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"In the light of God, there are no opinions, conclusions or beliefs - only being. It is being in a state of total harmonic perfection." (John Star)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"From the light we come to Earth and to the light we will return." (Josiane Antonette)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"The only thing we take with us at death is the love we have given away while on Earth." (Laurelynn Martin)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death means breaking through the barrier of space and time." (Beverly Brodsky)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Our senses and our sense of awareness are tremendously greater when we are outside of our physical body." (Thomas Sawyer)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"The last to be overcome is death, and the knowledge of life is the knowledge of death." (Edgar Cayce)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"You grow to heaven. You don't go to heaven." (Edgar Cayce)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Time stops when we die. Past, present and future become the eternal now." (Dr. Gerard Landry)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"When children die, they are not children after death. They appear to be as they would in the prime of their life." (Ruth Montgomery)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"There is nothing worth worrying about - not even death." (Joni Maggi)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Getting back into your body from a NDE is like jumping into a swimming pool." (Pam Reynolds)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style103"]"Death is one of the most important lessons that must be learned by those who are affected by it." (Karen Schaeffer)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style21"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: auto-style104"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 100%, align: left"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: style60"]"Death is just a body problem." - Chuck Griswold[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[apemon]

I think there is a lot more to discover and that there's merit to all of this, and that we really just don't know - it's even premature to conclude that QM is something more than physical because we probably don't know the full extent of 'physical' especially given the possibility of dimensions we can't see.

IMO the 'taboo stuff' is not really far out at all and is pretty well 'within the box' and unimaginative, stereotypical, and repetitive. The real thing is probably going to end up being way more abstract and incomprehensible, by our standards at this point anyway.

Hey I wondered if you had suffered any kind of psychological break? Not my business really but I was curious. You sound relatively undivided and open.


P.S. maybe a diff. thread don't want to get off the path.

 

[sprinkles]

Hey I wondered if you had suffered any kind of psychological break? Not my business really but I was curious. You sound relatively undivided and open.


P.S. maybe a diff. thread don't want to get off the path.

Yeah, I was in the hospital for almost a month straight and about half of that was in my room with the lights off. I've mentioned it openly on here once or twice I think so it isn't a big secret or anything.