Michael Jackson on the phone

[sedna]

I don't have a strong opinion on Michael Jackson's type, but remember Lisa Marie Presley talking about him in regards to how different he is irl compared to his online personae. She said when she first heard him talk irl in which he was a bit aggressive, her response was, "this is a very misunderstood person", and she also mentioned that she didn't understand why he insisted on projecting such an extremely gentle image. My primary impression of MJ is that he was quite buried in a media image partly created himself and partly created by the media, including his enemies. Because of this, I suspect most of the reality of it is quite buried.

I think regardless of type, we project a different persona depending on all kinds of variables, even INFJs. I'm sure if all of us from this forum gathered together, we'd have a completely different impression based on what we see versus what we'd imagined. I've never met a perfectly consistent person.

 

[Shaz]

I agree, Mike's lyrics weren't too deep but the way he sang them was. Try listening to 'She's out of my life' without crying...his pleading on 'Show you the way to go'...his fire and might in 'they don't care about us.' I think depth is relative and multi-dimensional.

It's easy to discount how innovative Mike was because his music was so woven into the everydayness of our lives. Easy to take for granted. But nobody was doing what he was doing then. Music was very segregated. A black guy who had a long career in soul music, suddenly making rock music and revolutionizing how music was consumed? Unheard of. In many ways we've regressed. Besides TV on the Radio, Santigold and a few others, there aren't too many crossover artists like there were back then with Mike, Prince, Tina, Living Colour. They were original AND mainstream. Nowadays, I notice you're original & underground or pop & popular with the exception of a few people like, say Radiohead or Bjork (but then again these people are my age, not newbies.)

I think this fits Fi+Se (ISFP) well though. Introverted feeling is deep in that way.

and Ns are not the only one to change things, create new things. Artisans are amazing at that when it comes to art (Picasso was definitely an artisan), probably the best. Where did I put this Lenore Thomson book...

I copy from the book (note that when she writes judgement she's thinking of Fi) :

"It's easier to see the nature of this process when IFPs make art - that is, when they "take a picture" with their typological camera and bring a bit of their vision into the objective world. Elvis Presley, for example, illustrates a classic ISFP perspective, in which outward expression is determined by one's concrete interests and experience.
By the time he was eighteen, Presley had absorbed as many forms of music as existed around him - blues, gospel, hillbilly, pop- but he drew no formal distinctions between them, had no Extraverted Judgments about the "slots" American society had determined for them. All he saw was what was "good" and what wasn't. The consistency of his Judgement unified those influences into a sound that changed the direction of popular music - and forced people to recognize some of the racial and social barriers in the music business.
It should be emphasized, in this respect, that ISFPs who use their subjective experience to focus on what is unconditional in human nature don't necessarily make art that coincides with social presctiption for "good" behavior. They're more likely to do as Elvis did-touch on some vital human principle that society has attempted to isolate as a class or racial problem.

INFPs demonstrate exactly the same kind of Judgment, but their Extraverted arena is more likely to involve patterns of meaning. For example, director Errol Morris uses film to explore the mystery of human endeavor -why we persist in doing things that may well disappear when we do.


Obviously we'll never know, as Julia wrote, it's so hard to know what was the real him and what was his public persona...

 

[Shaz]

I think regardless of type, we project a different persona depending on all kinds of variables, even INFJs. I'm sure if all of us from this forum gathered together, we'd have a completely different impression based on what we see versus what we'd imagined. I've never met a perfectly consistent person.

Jung argues that if you don't have different personae you probably have some kind of problem so yeah...

 

[sedna]

Bob Dylan, Tori Amos, *some* of the Beatles songs, etc have a more abstract philosophical character. I agree that popular music is the domain of the SP in that it focuses it expertise on sensation, immediacy, and the concrete because it needs to affect large amounts of people on first encounter. When lyrics get too abstract or if they require a few hearings before their meaning is apparent, you could lose the sale. I can see that MJ had a gift for communicating sensation and he described his approach to lyrics as primarily being a storyteller. In this way his lyrics have more meaning and cohesion than some, but they also have a concrete clarity. They do involve some imagination on the part of the listener to respond to the story and fill in the details. I'm not suggesting a type with these comments, but am throwing out a few observations that could imply quite a range of conclusions based on how they fit into the big picture of more information.

How true Julia. But again the individual's type and the type of their music may not have much in common. Lennon is an INTP, yet his songs seem INFP to me.

 

[Shaz]

How true Julia. But again the individual's type and the type of their music may not have much in common. Lennon is an INTP, yet his songs seem INFP to me.

Wow I didn't know he was an INTP. Imagine sounds like the *ultimate* INFP song... hehe

 

[mattysly]

I am really intrigued by what people have to say about Michael Jackson's type, I find the discussion fascinating. I also think that MJ was ISFP, or as David Keirsey describes: a Composer Artisan (btw that is just Keirsey's description of an ISFP) . I do agree that he did write some highly idealistic songs, and at one stage I thought him to be an INFP.
But the longer I think about it the more I think that he was an ISFP. He was also a tremendous dancer which would heavily rely on Se (a common feature of SP Artisans) and I think that the majority of musicians and songwriters are SPs, simply because they have an astonishing ability to "Sense" (Se) what artistically fits in a song. Usually a tune comes to mind then they fit words into that tune. Whereas an NF may think of the words first, like a poet, then fit those words to a tune.

What do others think about this?

 

[sedna]

I think this fits Fi+Se (ISFP) well though. Introverted feeling is deep in that way.

and Ns are not the only one to change things, create new things. Artisans are amazing at that when it comes to art (Picasso was definitely an artisan), probably the best. Where did I put this Lenore Thomson book...

I copy from the book (note that when she writes judgement she's thinking of Fi) :

"It's easier to see the nature of this process when IFPs make art - that is, when they "take a picture" with their typological camera and bring a bit of their vision into the objective world. Elvis Presley, for example, illustrates a classic ISFP perspective, in which outward expression is determined by one's concrete interests and experience.
By the time he was eighteen, Presley had absorbed as many forms of music as existed around him - blues, gospel, hillbilly, pop- but he drew no formal distinctions between them, had no Extraverted Judgments about the "slots" American society had determined for them. All he saw was what was "good" and what wasn't. The consistency of his Judgement unified those influences into a sound that changed the direction of popular music - and forced people to recognize some of the racial and social barriers in the music business.
It should be emphasized, in this respect, that ISFPs who use their subjective experience to focus on what is unconditional in human nature don't necessarily make art that coincides with social presctiption for "good" behavior. They're more likely to do as Elvis did-touch on some vital human principle that society has attempted to isolate as a class or racial problem.

INFPs demonstrate exactly the same kind of Judgment, but their Extraverted arena is more likely to involve patterns of meaning. For example, director Errol Morris uses film to explore the mystery of human endeavor -why we persist in doing things that may well disappear when we do.


Obviously we'll never know, as Julia wrote, it's so hard to know what was the real him and what was his public persona...

The difference between Elvis and MJ, is that Elvis had SWAGGER off-stage and in real life...in his relationships with people and especially with women. Sensates frequently rule in that area. The S command of the body and sexuality is admirable. Seriously, I wish folks would stop reducing Michael Jackson to the moonwalk. Yes Michael could dance. (NFs can dance, you know. Have you been to Paris? It's a city packed with NFJs. And they can dance.) Michael's NF awkwardness is too evident to dismiss. Have you seen him in the company of women, even his wives? On stage he exhibited a different persona. An INFJ in front of many is different from an INFJ in front of one or a few. Oftentimes Mike claimed he liked the stage because it gave him more confidence. Every INF male I've met has a similar awkwardness.

 

[sedna]

I am really intrigued by what people have to say about Michael Jackson's type, I find the discussion fascinating. I also think that MJ was ISFP, or as David Keirsey describes: a Composer Artisan (btw that is just Keirsey's description of an ISFP) . I do agree that he did write some highly idealistic songs, and at one stage I thought him to be an INFP.
But the longer I think about it the more I think that he was an ISFP. He was also a tremendous dancer which would heavily rely on Se (a common feature of SP Artisans) and I think that the majority of musicians and songwriters are SPs, simply because they have an astonishing ability to "Sense" (Se) what artistically fits in a song. Usually a tune comes to mind then they fit words into that tune. Whereas an NF may think of the words first, like a poet, then fit those words to a tune.

What do others think about this?

Michael, no. But Janet Jackson is an ISFP. I suspect Jermaine Jackson is too.