Mormons.

[Love_Conquers_All]

I have a lot of doctrinal issues with Mormonism. First why have most of Joseph Smiths prophecies failed? Second what is with the whole Nephalim thing? they sound like demons to me. Third why do Mormons believe they are going to receive a planet to populate when they die? I am not trying to attack your faith, or be hateful. I love everyone I am just trying to understand why people would keep following someone's doctrine who blatantly appears to have been a false prophet.

 

[Skarekrow]

I have a lot of doctrinal issues with Mormonism. First why have most of Joseph Smiths prophecies failed? Second what is with the whole Nephalim thing? they sound like demons to me. Third why do Mormons believe they are going to receive a planet to populate when they die? I am not trying to attack your faith, or be hateful. I love everyone I am just trying to understand why people would keep following someone's doctrine who blatantly appears to have been a false prophet.

Firstly, I don’t consider myself a Mormon...I was raised in the church until I was about 16 or so.
Have you bothered to read the Book of Mormon? Because almost all Mormons that I knew and know have read the Bible several times.
Secondly, you are indeed attacking their faith when you make statements like “why have most of Joseph Smith’s prophecies failed?” or by your statement “who blatantly appears to have been a false prophet."
One could easily say the same for the Bible if one were so inclined.
The Nephilim thing?
People equate the supposed people of early America who were dubbed the “Nephites” in the book of mormon with Nephilim, because they sound the same, they think they are related when they aren't...and most people who claim to know the Bible still think the Nephilim are literal “giants”...the Hebrew verbal root is N-ph-l
Some say Nephil, other’s Nephal...
But the basis of the word means “fallen”...or “against” as in “against God"
There are still arguments on if they were indeed “giants” or not.
I don’t think most Mormons believe they will receive a planet when they die...just so you know.
They believe they have the opportunity to one day “be like God” if they are so worthy (not instantly granted), but the details on being worthy are vague, as are what that conclusion entails.
This is all I will write because I am sick right now and don’t feel well, but secondly, I am purposefully trying not to get into debates and arguments based on things like this topic that can never be proven for one side or the other.
If you wish to know then study the book of Mormon and you will have all the knowledge to try and justify the Bible over it as you want...but that is the completely wrong way, and wrong justification, to educate one’s self.
Just let everyone believe what they want...if they are good and kind people, who cares?

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

Firstly, I don’t consider myself a Mormon...I was raised in the church until I was about 16 or so.
Have you bothered to read the Book of Mormon? Because almost all Mormons that I knew and know have read the Bible several times.
Secondly, you are indeed attacking their faith when you make statements like “why have most of Joseph Smith’s prophecies failed?” or by your statement “who blatantly appears to have been a false prophet."
One could easily say the same for the Bible if one were so inclined.
The Nephilim thing?
People equate the supposed people of early America who were dubbed the “Nephites” in the book of mormon with Nephilim, because they sound the same, they think they are related when they aren't...and most people who claim to know the Bible still think the Nephilim are literal “giants”...the Hebrew verbal root is N-ph-l
Some say Nephil, other’s Nephal...
But the basis of the word means “fallen”...or “against” as in “against God"
There are still arguments on if they were indeed “giants” or not.
I don’t think most Mormons believe they will receive a planet when they die...just so you know.
They believe they have the opportunity to one day “be like God” if they are so worthy (not instantly granted), but the details on being worthy are vague, as are what that conclusion entails.
This is all I will write because I am sick right now and don’t feel well, but secondly, I am purposefully trying not to get into debates and arguments based on things like this topic that can never be proven for one side or the other.
If you wish to know then study the book of Mormon and you will have all the knowledge to try and justify the Bible over it as you want...but that is the completely wrong way, and wrong justification, to educate one’s self.
Just let everyone believe what they want...if they are good and kind people, who cares?

I apologize you feel this way I meant no offense and no I am not trying to attack their faith. If I miss worded myself I apologize. I am going off of what former Mormons have told me about their previous faith. So how different are the LDS vs RLDS views? I have only ever spoken with RLDS because of my proximity to Independence, Missouri.

 

[isabellajay]

I had no idea people were posting here. Sorry. [MENTION=7970]Love_Conquers_All[/MENTION]
I'll be honest and say I've heard nothing of the RLDS. I looked them up to try to get an idea
and while it appears they are a branch off of the LDS church, they aren't affiliated with the LDS church.
It looks like they believe some of the same things we do, other than the trinity (I'm sure there are other things).
I can't really say I know much more than that they aren't Mormons? If you're a mormon, you're a member of the Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The end. It's a similar case with the FLDS. They were originally LDS then branched off and became their own church and therefore have their own practices.
If you would like, I can try to research a little bit more about the "Community of Christ" (as I understand they now call themselves) and get back to you!
Thanks for asking.

 

[Skarekrow]

I apologize you feel this way I meant no offense and no I am not trying to attack their faith. If I miss worded myself I apologize. I am going off of what former Mormons have told me about their previous faith. So how different are the LDS vs RLDS views? I have only ever spoken with RLDS because of my proximity to Independence, Missouri.

I apologize too...
Part of what I have been going through personally has bled through into my own response back to you...
I used to enjoy arguing with people about their beliefs and the small inconsistencies they contained...I think in my own search for faith, I was too aggressive with people, and trying to figure out why there were contradictions within religions. So I would point them out, of course one can find such things within any and all the religions if they look...I thought that if I could find the answers to those questions that it would be enlightening...I couldn’t understand how so many people could adhere to such a flawed thing as modern religion.
You could almost call me up until recently an agnostic...I did believe in God, but all the religions seemed to contradict their own beliefs...they pronounced that they should do this and that, and then did nothing of the sort in reality...they are weekend warriors for Christ.
I responded to you because I saw a bit of myself in the way you worded your questions...perhaps that was just me projecting onto you - sorry.
The LDS and RLDS are quite different in their views...it’s kind of like grouping the Amish together with Catholics...they both follow the Bible, but actually lead very different lives.
Here is a link to the history and differences if you are interested - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...s#Historical_differences_between_the_churches

I have recently come to the conclusion that nobody has the absolute answers to anything here on earth...we aren’t even sure of our own reality...there are good reasons to believe we live in a holographic universe, other’s suspect we are all part of a giant AI program humming away somewhere (very matrix-y I know lol).
But the reality of our reality is that there are NO absolutes (at least how I understand it, you can disagree), there is no “truth” only “truths”...things you know in your own heart and mind to be true...who am I to tell someone that what they believe is wrong? I was a fool to argue such a thing with anyone...I became a contradiction myself pointing out contradictions.
I don’t believe we will be judged on what church we go to, or even what religion we belong to...but on our acts, on how we treated others, on the compassion (or lack of) in our hearts.
I don’t think we will go to Hell and burn for eternity, rather I think the knowing, once that veil has been lifted at our death, that we should have been more loving, more compassionate, more caring...and we weren’t, will be our punishment.
I believe we came here on purpose, and I believe that the deal we made was to experience the good and the bad....that is why God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden...so we can learn...I don’t think that they sinned, rather I think that was the plan all along.
Why we need to learn what we are here to learn...no one knows...no one will until we die....I do know that I intend to be as good and compassionate as I can, not because the Bible tells me so...but because it feels right in my heart and soul.
I ignored that intuition for too long...trying to find answers to unanswerable questions...the answer is to just “be”.
We shouldn’t all be trying to find the differences in religions, but we should rather find what we can agree on and ignore the small details that really serve no purpose other than to be used as “tools” to wield power over others...that just isn’t right...any 5 year old can tell us that.
Mormons still believe in Jesus...they still follow the teachings in the Bible, and although I disagree with them on a political sense, they are overall good, honest, family-oriented people.
To the whole thread -
Let’s focus on that..instead of picking each other apart.

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

I apologize too...
Part of what I have been going through personally has bled through into my own response back to you...
I used to enjoy arguing with people about their beliefs and the small inconsistencies they contained...I think in my own search for faith, I was too aggressive with people, and trying to figure out why there were contradictions within religions. So I would point them out, of course one can find such things within any and all the religions if they look...I thought that if I could find the answers to those questions that it would be enlightening...I couldn’t understand how so many people could adhere to such a flawed thing as modern religion.
You could almost call me up until recently an agnostic...I did believe in God, but all the religions seemed to contradict their own beliefs...they pronounced that they should do this and that, and then did nothing of the sort in reality...they are weekend warriors for Christ.
I responded to you because I saw a bit of myself in the way you worded your questions...perhaps that was just me projecting onto you - sorry.
The LDS and RLDS are quite different in their views...it’s kind of like grouping the Amish together with Catholics...they both follow the Bible, but actually lead very different lives.
Here is a link to the history and differences if you are interested - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...s#Historical_differences_between_the_churches

I have recently come to the conclusion that nobody has the absolute answers to anything here on earth...we aren’t even sure of our own reality...there are good reasons to believe we live in a holographic universe, other’s suspect we are all part of a giant AI program humming away somewhere (very matrix-y I know lol).
But the reality of our reality is that there are NO absolutes (at least how I understand it, you can disagree), there is no “truth” only “truths”...things you know in your own heart and mind to be true...who am I to tell someone that what they believe is wrong? I was a fool to argue such a thing with anyone...I became a contradiction myself pointing out contradictions.
I don’t believe we will be judged on what church we go to, or even what religion we belong to...but on our acts, on how we treated others, on the compassion (or lack of) in our hearts.
I don’t think we will go to Hell and burn for eternity, rather I think the knowing, once that veil has been lifted at our death, that we should have been more loving, more compassionate, more caring...and we weren’t, will be our punishment.
I believe we came here on purpose, and I believe that the deal we made was to experience the good and the bad....that is why God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden...so we can learn...I don’t think that they sinned, rather I think that was the plan all along.
Why we need to learn what we are here to learn...no one knows...no one will until we die....I do know that I intend to be as good and compassionate as I can, not because the Bible tells me so...but because it feels right in my heart and soul.
I ignored that intuition for too long...trying to find answers to unanswerable questions...the answer is to just “be”.
We shouldn’t all be trying to find the differences in religions, but we should rather find what we can agree on and ignore the small details that really serve no purpose other than to be used as “tools” to wield power over others...that just isn’t right...any 5 year old can tell us that.
Mormons still believe in Jesus...they still follow the teachings in the Bible, and although I disagree with them on a political sense, they are overall good, honest, family-oriented people.
To the whole thread -
Let’s focus on that..instead of picking each other apart.

I agree! Love conquers all these little quarrels that are only based on our own bias. I apologize again in looking back I realize I let some of my own anger at how one of my friends was so twisted up psychologically by the elders in the RLDS temple he was a part of. I suppose this is why I am so forgiving of others because of how cruel I can be sometimes. It only seems to come out when someone I care about is involved. I need to remember to step back and pause before speaking or in this case typing and clear my mind of all bias so I can remain impartial and just in my words. Thanks for not digging into me too much. Much love and respect!

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

I had no idea people were posting here. Sorry. [MENTION=7970]Love_Conquers_All[/MENTION]
I'll be honest and say I've heard nothing of the RLDS. I looked them up to try to get an idea
and while it appears they are a branch off of the LDS church, they aren't affiliated with the LDS church.
It looks like they believe some of the same things we do, other than the trinity (I'm sure there are other things).
I can't really say I know much more than that they aren't Mormons? If you're a mormon, you're a member of the Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The end. It's a similar case with the FLDS. They were originally LDS then branched off and became their own church and therefore have their own practices.
If you would like, I can try to research a little bit more about the "Community of Christ" (as I understand they now call themselves) and get back to you!
Thanks for asking.

That's alright I can do the research myself unless you are just interested in knowing for yourself as well. Thanks for the clarification though.

 

[Skarekrow]

I agree! Love conquers all these little quarrels that are only based on our own bias. I apologize again in looking back I realize I let some of my own anger at how one of my friends was so twisted up psychologically by the elders in the RLDS temple he was a part of. I suppose this is why I am so forgiving of others because of how cruel I can be sometimes. It only seems to come out when someone I care about is involved. I need to remember to step back and pause before speaking or in this case typing and clear my mind of all bias so I can remain impartial and just in my words. Thanks for not digging into me too much. Much love and respect!

I still feel the pangs of being indoctrinated in that church as a child...I think it left me generally confused about religion in general.
They, like many churches, claim to be the one true and only church...I have always had a problem with ANY church that makes such a claim.
I severely doubt that Jesus intended such a dismantling of his teachings...this church believes this, and that one this...decide for yourself...focus on his teachings not what a lot of churches would have us focus on - our differences, things that lead us to have prejudices and hate toward one another...so what if so-and-so is gay, do you think Jesus would have shunned him? A resounding “No”.
Jesus comforted those in society who were looked upon as the scum of the earth, whores, thieves, etc.
I think he would be generally disappointed with 99% of the Christian churches out there today, who preach his word, but do not follow his examples.
I don’t think a compassionate Buddhist, who spends his life trying honestly to be a good person will be cast into Hell...nor a Muslim, Jew, etc...
We are all flawed...no one has the right to judge each other...we all seem to forget that no matter how bad we perceive a person to be, there are reasons and history that made them that way...they are following what they believe to be the right thing, even if we personally disagree...to judge them is only ignorance on our own part.
I wish we could dissolve those differences...but then we would have nothing to learn here...we have to know sorrow to truly know joy.

 

[isabellajay]

[MENTION=7970]Love_Conquers_All[/MENTION]
Basic summary I don't know why I didn't provide:
LDS church organized (1830)-----Prophet Joseph Smith is murdered----certain members of the church think that only those related to Joseph Smith should be prophet (this was RLDS)-----polygamy practices------polygamy practices cease------certain members think that polygamy should continue (this was FLDS).
When the two groups first broke off, it was simply because of their difference of opinion. Over time, they've become completely different faiths.

 

[Skarekrow]

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

Well as I stated correctly I have a problem with the doctrine of Mormonism not the Mormons themselves. I also have a problem with the doctrine of every major religious sect. My issue is with the systems not the people. I just hate that so many blindly follow these flawed systems instead of searching out truth for themselves.

 

[LucyJr]

Well as I stated correctly I have a problem with the doctrine of Mormonism not the Mormons themselves. I also have a problem with the doctrine of every major religious sect. My issue is with the systems not the people. I just hate that so many blindly follow these flawed systems instead of searching out truth for themselves.

yes, but these people, like you and I believe they have found the truth.
This is our world. There are alot of truth-seekers, and a lot of truth-holders, and you can't fight with that.
The glory of Truth will shine clearly in the midst of lies and deceit, for if there is truth, there is also counter-truth. Always.

 

[Love_Conquers_All]

yes, but these people, like you and I believe they have found the truth.
This is our world. There are alot of truth-seekers, and a lot of truth-holders, and you can't fight with that.
The glory of Truth will shine clearly in the midst of lies and deceit, for if there is truth, there is also counter-truth. Always.

I am more referring to the countless people who go to their respective church/temple/synogogue but never take the time to read their doctrine for themselves just blindly follow what their priest/holy man/prophet tells them. I am not angry with them so much as I am angry with those who manipulate and use them so.

 

[Stu]

Heres a big reason : Mitt Romney.

 

[the]

View attachment 19946

I think the reason for lack of chops busting with this guy, is he isnt as arrogant and off putting as Mitt Romney. Romney likes to remind us all that he has a lot of money and likes to make his horses dance in competitions. The few times Reid even showed up on my radar he was talking about having plans and policies that made sense, although I dont recall the specifics at the time. Plans and policies are what I am looking for in a politician, not his religion or bank account.

 

[Lerxst]

Let me recap this again.

Reason 1: Joseph Smith - a lying criminal convicted of fraud, claims angels gave him golden tablets which the conveniently took back to heaven with them. Yeah, in that case, I got a bridge to sell ya...

Reason 2: Rebels - settled Utah looking to run away from the United States and start their own country (many places in Utah and Idaho still feel this way).

Reason 3: Violence - Mountain Meadows Massacre for starters...

Reason 4: Racist - Blacks were considered less than human until the mid 1970's.

Reason 5: Anger - When Utah legalized same-sex marriage, some Mormon families I know damned their own kin if they let out the slightest hint of support over it.

Reason 6: Disrespectful - Why make the planet a better place for everyone else when you get to escape to Kolob? Have a family member who doesn't believe? Wait until they die then baptize them regardless.

Reason 7: Modern-day people gullible enough to ignore the past and believe blindly in the scriptures they read in the Book of Mormon.


Now, why do all of those really irk me? Because I'm foolishly optimistic and still believe the USA could be a great country as long as we all understand the concept of "united we stand". You know the saying about only being as strong as the weakest link? There you go. How strong can we actually be as a united citizenry if we have people this gullible and foolish enough to believe in such a ridiculous, hate-filled religion... that was founded on our own soil?

My dislike isn't just for Mormons, but it's directed towards anyone who displays those same intolerant qualities. I used to take a "live and let live" approach, but then I realized how irresponsible that is when you're dealing with philosophies that cause harm - physical and/or psychological.

I can almost forgive some older religions that have been around for a couple millennia since they have a couple thousand years of dogma directing their behaviors. Over that time span, facts get blurred and it's hard to prove or disprove some aspects. When Mormonism was formed, however, people had the luxury of science, math and logic at their disposal but they all chose to ignore reason. We have intact, written history that predates and contradicts anything Joseph Smith claimed, but people still chose... and still choose... to ignore facts in favor of his fantasy world.