My case that America is not the greatest country on earth...

[Billy]

Well its definetly wrongly used if you are implying that on me, because I'm on the other side and the grass is dried out and dead...

There is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right with America

Its maddening talking to people who have made up their mind to hate their own country because of all the poison they have been fed by the crazies who control our educational system. These are the same people who believe all the crazy stuff they read in those chain emails. Because its the hip alternative viewpoint.

 

[NeverAmI]

No I dont, and frankly I dont care. But given your attitude towards everything we talked about in this thread I would assume you werent.

I don't see how personal attacks play any part in this. But I don't feel like I have to argue with you anymore.

Assumptions have no place in critical thinking.

 

[Billy]

I don't see how personal attacks play any part in this. But I don't feel like I have to argue with you anymore.

Not really attacking you, just being bluntly honest. Sorry if you dont like hearing an honest opinion about yourself.

 

[NeverAmI]

Not really attacking you, just being bluntly honest. Sorry if you dont like hearing an honest opinion about yourself.

It really doesn't bother me one way or the other. If you don't want to do your research, I don't want to argue with you.

 

[Gaze]

People there is no utopian society that will fulfill everything you desire . . .

This is true.

 

[Billy]

It really doesn't bother me one way or the other. If you don't want to do your research, I don't want to argue with you.

Research what? Why you have a particular poor attitude toward something? Why would I want to do that, I am not interested. If you dont want to talk about anything else, then we are concluded to agree to disagree. Right?

 

[Solongo]

Boys! Get a room!...

 

[bamf]

See that's where you are wrong, capital isn't limited, its created because its subjective. The American dream isnt disillusionment, if you come to America and try hard enough and do the right things you WILL succeed. Period. Its really just a matter of doing the right stuff.

Just because YOU and SOME people dont know how to become successful doesnt meant its not possible. It just means that its something some people dont know how to do or cant figure out. In which case the American dream can still work for them because in that case they probably arent ambitious anyway and they could get a nice job working for some EVIL rich guy for a salary instead, that can be thier american dream. Which as I have said is per individual. You keep trying to pretend that the American dream is just getting rich, for some people it is, for others its to live in a frickin commune in Idaho.

Success isn't all hard work and determination. A number of factors have to fall together for success in the monetary sense, which for the record, is all I've been talking about. I specifically said that in the context of this thread the American Dream is "everyone can achieve a better, richer, more fulfilling life experience".

Do you have the slightest idea how economics work? You can go and 'create' more capital but it lowers the value of 'capital'. Economics are never equal (nor, once again try to understand, am I say that they should be). To be rich one has to have more than someone else. If the new definition of rich was 10,000,000,000,000 USD, then having a million dollars would make you poor. In order to succeed monetarily, one must have more than another.

If you insist on attack my character, feel free to continue. It means nothing to me and only refutes what ever justification your position might have held.

 

[NeverAmI]

America is what you make of it. If you can't handle the heat...then leave.

People there is no utopian society that will fulfill everything you desire without extreme effort, luck, etc...

America is for the white and rich.

What is wrong with recognizing the bad in an attempt to make it better?

 

[Quinlan]

A definition nonetheless. What fluffy ever changing criteria do you use to pretend America sucks at?

I don't bother, because I'm aware of my own bias, I don't think America sucks, I hardly know it. When I went to America I got the impression that it was a very dirty place but I recognise that my perspective is skewed by only seeing a small fraction of it.

My country isn't rich nor powerful but the quality of life is exceptional, I think that is great but trying to prove it would just be a pissing contest.

 

[NeverAmI]

If you dont want to talk about anything else, then we are concluded to agree to disagree. Right?

Correct.

 

[Pristinegirl]

What is wrong with recognizing the bad in an attempt to make it better?

I agree, you have a point here, there is always room for improvement but that does not mean that it is less great ^^

 

[Solongo]

What is wrong with recognizing the bad in an attempt to make it better?

A lot of people tried. Thats why there was communism, nazism, totalitarianism...everyone has an idea of what is considered "great society"...bottom line there is none. American system compared to other systems works the best so far...it has many faults but I'll take it over everything else that is prevalent in the world...


But who knows, the way shit is, the system might collapse...

 

[Stu]

If you look at it in terms of human history, nothing like The USA has ever really existed before. We put humans on the moon just because we could. We have elected a non European's son to the Presidency. Nobody comes close to what we have accomplished.
Hubris is deadly but pride in accomplishment breeds healthy self esteem.

 

[Pristinegirl]

America is what you make of it. If you can't handle the heat...then leave.

People there is no utopian society that will fulfill everything you desire without extreme effort, luck, etc...

America is for the white and rich.

I completely agree with first statement!
Its true that there are no utopian societies. No one will never be satisfied at the same time.

As for that last statement I completely dissagree, there are black and middle-classers who love America too, who have embraced their life and achieved absolution.

 

[bamf]

I want to make a general observation...

Since when did disagreeing with the government or how things are run become unpatriotic? I'm American and I'm damn well proud of it. I wouldn't want to live anywhere else and I'd die for this nation if I thought the fight was justified. My America is not land of the 'sheep people'. I refuse to blindly follow what I disagree with and expect other people to do the same. If you agree with what ever, good for you. Other people don't and they have every right not to. That's what makes this nation great. We're fucking free to think and speak on our own behalf. We are a nation of people that was built for the people. Our voices should never be silent.

 

[Billy]

Success isn't all hard work and determination. A number of factors have to fall together for success in the monetary sense, which for the record, is all I've been talking about. I specifically said that in the context of this thread the American Dream is "everyone can achieve a better, richer, more fulfilling life experience".

Do you have the slightest idea how economics work? You can go and 'create' more capital but it lowers the value of 'capital'. Economics are never equal (nor, once again try to understand, am I say that they should be). To be rich one has to have more than someone else. If the new definition of rich was 10,000,000,000,000 USD, then having a million dollars would make you poor. In order to succeed monetarily, one must have more than another.

If you insist on attack my character, feel free to continue. It means nothing to me and only refutes what ever justification your position might have held.

Actually, it doesnt refute any justification for anything, you are entitled as I am to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts. Being rich is a subjective term, stop using it, and start saying financially independent. That would be a great starting point for all of you who hate America and misunderstand what wealth and success are.

In order to achieve this all you have to do is learn how to make money work for you instead of you working for it. You can be financially independent on much lower money values if you know how to work it properly and eventually grow you net worth and assets.

You wont do it working a 9 to 5er Because you are always working for someone else.

The whole point of money is time, the more you control the more time you control. People need to start approaching wealth, money, such with that in mind.

You can create entire new markets and become a billionaire over night and you dont have to do that stepping on peoples back, its more like a team victory. You meet people as you go, and offer mutual beneficial friendships and succeed together. This is actually the way most wealth is made, through small connections from person to person.

The only ingredient to make it work and all come together though is drive and ambition. If you dont have that, just get a job because you wont make it.

 

[Billy]

I don't bother, because I'm aware of my own bias, I don't think America sucks, I hardly know it. When I went to America I got the impression that it was a very dirty place but I recognise that my perspective is skewed by only seeing a small fraction of it.

My country isn't rich nor powerful but the quality of life is exceptional, I think that is great but trying to prove it would just be a pissing contest.

Yeah life is great here too, whats your point?

 

[Barnabas]

Anyway, where else would we move? We could decide to chuck it here in the U.S. and make a better life somewhere else. But where?

Canada? Nice, but tooo cooooold. Brrrrrrr. I'd love to visit, but I can only take so many cold days before I freeze up completely.

Mexico? Well, the quality of life there isn't any better, it's worse in fact, but at least the weather's wonderfully tropical. And I love the Gulf of Mexico, sooooooo pretty and excellent snorkeling.

Europe? I don't know... most Western European countries don't seem all that different, really, from the U.S., despite all our talk (bla bla bla) about Socialism (which we have in the U.S. already) vs. Free-Market Capitalism. I've been to Europe, and worked with my fair share of Europeans and Britons and, well, to me they just seem like more formal, less diverse Americans. Everything in Europe is nice, but smaller, and wonderfully historic compared to America. (I like that.) A nice little chateau in the south of France would suit me just fine. Or Ireland or England, but I do love a warm climate...

South America? Well, I hear Brazil's pretty nice. Don't know too much about the region, to be honest.

Australia? Again, despite all the protests to the contrary that I am sure would ensue, it really isn't that different from the U.S. Even has a history of being used as a penal colony by European colonists... like the U.S. Yeah, doable, but really what's the big difference? (Besides the hemisphere, of course.)

New Zealand I hear is wonderful. Dad went there and brought back a big book of naked women posing with sheep. Beautiful scenery. Could do New Zealand.

South Africa? Nope. We know Uganda's out, yucky. I've heard wonderful things about Botswana, however, should look into that more. (Botswana is my favorite African country.)

India? Well, that's doable, I like India and Indians and yum-o, Indian food. However, poverty there is pretty bad, but, I believe, improving. Perhaps they could offer a better quality of life for some disenchanted Americans.

Russia? (Nope, see "Canada: Cold", plus a high rate of alcoholism...)

Japan? Mmmm, sushi. Such a huge language barrier, though. Plus, I doubt they'd be very accepting of us, considering past history and all. And I hear it's really expensive there, too.

The Middle East? Forget it. I don't care to be killed or forced into subjugation due to the fact I am female. Cross out any region that does not allow me to work, get an education, earn money, and generally go about my daily business, due to my gender. That would suck.

So, where exactly should we all live if we get so sick of America we want to move? Has anyone really ever thought about this?

I'm actually only halfway joking... what country in the world truly offers the best quality of life for the most people?

Antarctica, dress warm and do what you want.

 

[NeverAmI]

But who knows, the way shit is, the system might collapse...

This is what I worry about!! We are no where close to the system we had when the constitution was founded.