My relationship experiences are poor...

[SamE]

I think as far as dating websites goes, it's best to go in with a mindset that you don't need a relationship, and/or you are just looking to potentially learn about a friend that you personally relate to on a level that is important to you. That is where the most success is found I would think. Being able to message or recieve messages from other users and not go "IS THIS THE ONE?!" is very important to get a good experience and avoid you imposing your personal desires and expections on the other person (whcih isn't what relationships are [or at least should be] about). Approaching the situations and people you meet there very casually and following them by the ear would be best.

Yeah probably. I am intense when I speak but If I was any more casual though I'd fall off a truck.

 

[SamE]

Nice and spineless are not mutually exclusive. It's quite a large misnomer to think otherwise.

Fine but then...

I'll just post my thoughts on it when I wrote about it before because I am oblivious, intense and pretty much lost more than the average man! Unless my intentions are misaligned from the start.

From a deep psychological viewpoint the subconscious mind interprets our anima animus states according to our upbringing and role models. Which means that for mate selection a female is using her father image role model, the media image, the literature image, the any other male influence image in determining what her partner selection is going to be. This means that in a psychological level the patterns that are created early on in a woman's life are going to be enacted throughout her life.

When she thinks she finds the right man, the archetype mirror image, she will find out this isn't the case because then once the patterns fall apart and the sub personalities disintegrate into a shared union of wanting to achieve some kind of stability both the father and mother image ego shapes are in conflict with what they wanted in the first place. and it is much easier for that deceptive alchemical process of love to take shape. Especially when they don't need to, both the male and female, discard their ego self and false personalities in order to face their true essences. And would much rather go their separate ways than deal with their ego self and face their maturity. usually if one is willing the other is not and a break down in communication occurs and the relationship dissolves.

This goes throughout their lives and while the ladies struggle with finding the right kind of stability without addressing and learning from their subconscious images, the patterns repeat. And often than not there is a secondary real element here. Its called testosterone and estrogen.

What you will find is that males with high levels of testosterone are viewed as the idyllic attractive entity yeah. The sought after alpha/beta variance. Have you ever wondered why this is so? Because the female brain is wired to accept certain signals that pertain to masculinity as much as a male is wired to accept certain signals that pertain to femininity in the same respect.

And then what you find is that those men who create action, are confident, decision makers, get things done, are doers in every sense of the word, activators of attraction the woman will fall in love with it. This is her safety. Do you know a woman needs to feel safe in order to love. Would it be any different then womens need for sensuality would disappear and women wouldn't require emotional connections to fall in love to have that attachment of loyalty after. And guess what many if not all sensitive nice guys are low testosterone oriented, I would hazard a guess and the smell, the subconscious entity that is the females estrogen signals that there is a weakness, a disconnect somewhere along the line and biologically from the wrong matching of the immune system, there won't be any generated interest but friendzoning.

Because emotional lovers are mirror images of what women have learned is the opposite of what is needed to feel safe and secure to fall in love with. It is their mirroring feminine attributes that are too similar to them to fall in love with. How can this be the case you may ask when lesbians would love each other and know exactly what to do. Because even then there is a feminine and masculine role.

Anyway there is more to it than this. But whenever you hear why nice guys are slapped in the face one too many times its because they are passive and lack the initiatory ability of what subconsciously defines a man in a womans eyes to be healthy and expressive. Like a rooster and a peacock. Without showing attitude, initiative, expression, all the colours of your character before and after the attraction process dies, your authentic self as they say then you flatline. That is what happens after marriage, the emotional gut level attraction that was there, the so called chemistry changes. And then the focus when empty and unfulfilled changed to distance and unloved. When the true colours that have been there all along surface and neither partner is willing to deal with it.

A nice guy would pretty much have to be anything but passive, to show some spine, to exhibit those qualities that create attraction in a womans subconscious level, to demonstrate that you would pretty much be a conqueror, be able to stand up for yourself, have a backbone and fight for her, offer her shade and a willingness to feel comfortable without presenting the complexity of herself back at her as emotional males would do.

Plus there is the 8 stages of intimacy that would most certainly be a requirement to be fulfilling and long lasting. Like so

Stages

And the underlining theme, safety and security, to feel comfortable with their sexuality, to feel connected with their intimacy and trust you with their mind, body and soul as they say. And sensitive males can become as threatening, if not more so, then aggressive males subconsciously. Through the agency of their subconscious mirroring, biological clock and estrogen levels.

That's my take on it. and why I too struggle with relationships.

I did generalise and such though I need help. Big time it seems if I rant like that.
I am no longer prepared to accept loneliness for another 33 years...my life is ridiculously lonely period!

 

[SamE]

[FONT=&quot]I like this...strangely

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

The Myth Of The Sensitive New Age Nice Guy
The sensitive new age nice guy,
generally wears his hair in a ponytail,
and is in touch with that side of himself
he thinks of as female.
Although he says he wears no armor,
he wears his issues on his chest;
and so to have conversation with him,
you must get through
that invisible chain mail vest.

He reads an awful lot, about what women want,
in fact -he reads too much.
(I heard one quoting pages once, and couldn't swallow my lunch.)
Where he gathers all his information,
has left him with a rather stunted imagination
he's an impossibly boring new age creation
completely incapable of cerebral masturbation.
But he is a master of doormat manipulation

Some might say I'm being a little rough,
after all he's just trying to be kind,
a gentle, sensitive, understanding, sweet man
is really a good find.

A genuinely caring man,
Well, of course there is nothing wrong with that,
It's just the lines falling from his mouth
come out sounding.....
really flat.

He's having a hard time with his identity,
he talks about his different boundaries
he never yells, always says please,
and around him all you feel
is guilty, guilty, guilty.

Now as much as I'd hate to hear: "Hey baby what's your sign",
it's no more entertaining than
a self help book quoted line for line.

He likes to cook, he likes to clean,
he has a very low self esteem.
He finds it difficult to be prince charming
But I'm not Cinderella, honey,
and the prince is so dull it's alarming.

He doesn't understand why
women don't like "the too nice guy"
overlooking of course, what the "too" might imply.
In fact it's one of his most annoying traits,
besides "The Joy Of Sex" quotes he makes.
Almost as bad as the "I'm a lesbian in a man's body" fakes.
He'll just never understand exactly what it takes.
"Touch yourself and show me how you like it done"
"I'm not hurting you now am I hon.?"
SHUT THE FUCK UP AND LET ME HAVE SOME FUN !!!

(Some new age nice guy sex-therapist-with-a-book is the real guilty one!)

Now, caring about how your partner is feeling
Is definitely an idea that is very appealing,
yet if this is what a woman is screaming:
( While ripping off your clothes)
"Oh Yes! do it! Fuck me now!"
simply shut up sweetheart, and do what you are told.

He finds with women he better relates,
and yet somehow he rarely dates.
He says he understands women's issues,
he also knows what it's like to be used.
He cries at soppy movies so you'd better have some tissues.
He knows EXACTLY how you feel
( he secretly reads Daniel Steel)

And though he'll never pass a watermelon through his rump,
nor does he bloat during that time of the month,
he has noticed that on a regular schedule
he gets into a grump!

He's secure in his masculinity,
so he's not threatened by a dominant personality.
He's attracted to women who come off assertively,
and since he can't make a decision for himself
it works out perfectly
...at least theoretically.

He's supportive of your sarcastic angstful poetry,
but, even so, he just won't find it very funny.
He'll point out the spelling mistakes rather promptly,
but not because on his ego you just went
stompity, stompity, stompity.

Fucked if I know

[/FONT]

 

[SamE]

Thanks for letting me talk it through way overdue.

 

[Kavalan]

Well that's good then, each to their own. Perhaps I associate nice with an inanimate carbon rod...

Cute nice way to totally disregard the elephant in the room for you... see below...

A nice guy would pretty much have to be anything but passive, to show some spine, to exhibit those qualities that create attraction in a womans subconscious level, to demonstrate that you would pretty much be a conqueror, be able to stand up for yourself, have a backbone and fight for her, offer her shade and a willingness to feel comfortable without presenting the complexity of herself back at her as emotional males would do.

You state this yet still seem to think "nice" guys are incapable as you showed from your following post that quote a disparaging poem. Just because someone not playing "who's got the biggest ego" game doesn't mean they are capable rolling with the punches.

Fine but then...

I'll just post my thoughts on it when I wrote about it before because I am oblivious, intense and pretty much lost more than the average man! Unless my intentions are misaligned from the start.

I did generalise and such though I need help. Big time it seems if I rant like that.
I am no longer prepared to accept loneliness for another 33 years...my life is ridiculously lonely period!

Yes you need to accept that spineless/passive/feminine and nice are not mutually exclusive. Also you're over thinking the whole interaction. You have gone to a totally raw animalistic level... It plays a part but just that, a part personalities, desires, aspirations, thoughts beyond, "I want the most manly guy for myself," play a role and you ignore it.

You are in essence saying, "nature favors the biggest and strongest" which is false on so many levels. You punted saying that is the only way to get a girl when that is most definitely not the case.

 

[SamE]

Cute nice way to totally disregard the elephant in the room for you... see below...

You state this yet still seem to think "nice" guys are incapable as you showed from your following post that quote a disparaging poem. Just because someone not playing "who's got the biggest ego" game doesn't mean they are capable rolling with the punches.

Yes you need to accept that spineless/passive/feminine and nice are not mutually exclusive. Also you're over thinking the whole interaction. You have gone to a totally raw animalistic level... It plays a part but just that, a part personalities, desires, aspirations, thoughts beyond, "I want the most manly guy for myself," play a role and you ignore it.

You are in essence saying, "nature favors the biggest and strongest" which is false on so many levels. You punted saying that is the only way to get a girl when that is most definitely not the case.

I noticed that too, I am over thinking and over analyzing that's true. I am saying it takes passion, energy, initiative, confidence, assertion, action, intention, creativity, motivation, something, anything to be. And nice, well yes you are spot on. I am blinded, even though I understand stuff yet whats right in front of me, oblivious as can get. The longer this continues, the less grounded I feel. I'm tired of being out of focus, missing the best parts of life for so long tends to mess with a person at the best of times.

 

[Kavalan]

I would say that the lack of relationship is not the root cause but the most prominent manifestation that you can identify. I wont hazard a guess I'm terrible at that. I can give insight to me if that were to help.

I had low self esteem whole town tin can, everyone got a kick, door mat etc. The thing for me was that not everyone thinks the same way and it is totally about how you carry yourself. And as I've been yelling about nice doesn't mean doormat.
As an aside, I generally do not like online dating... too much lost in the text and thus prefer meeting in person. As such I have found(for me, totally anecdotal) that going in and asking a woman or girl out that having indifference towards her answer makes the process much easier. Granted you need to be quick on your feet if you get the opposite answer you were expecting deep down. Had much more luck getting past mental barriers.

as for reading too far in well that for me is an exercise of will. I make millions of scenarios in my head and thats what generally derails me and I just muscle my way through 'em and tell them to fuck off.

As far as coming off too strong... I generally do as well as my life has been a trip and as such some of it I need to disclaimer as most hasn't been flowers and sunshine. In that vein pragmatism and some healthy self depreciating humor keeps me going.

But this is all me and how I function.

 

[Tamagochi]

First things first. The main problem with that online conversation you posted in op is that it's boring and it's fake. The woman had probably assumed that you have the same qualities as well and her attention shifted elsewhere. Now let's go over it in some detail:

I was just having a look over your page - great profile! You mentioned you liked travel... been anywhere nice recently? I've been to Fremantle and Geraldton this year and I'm hoping to get away to Margaret River in September. I love the whether up there, it's really beautiful. How about you?

That's quite good actually. It contains a compliment, your interest in her personality and establishes some mutual ground. There's also an emotion and a promise of adventure in the last few sentences.

I spoke with a girl in the USA who I got to know very well and ended up as friends. Turns out she was the sister to the lead singer from The Dresden Dolls though estranged. My experience with internet dating stories so far has been limited. It has much to do with my confidence and approach, haha, I used to send out cheesy one liners thinking its the way to break the ice. Sometimes I'm too honest and its taken the wrong way.

Advice: do not talk about past relationships with women at the start of a new relationship. You should have responded with something more generic. Then what's with the negative advertising??? You should totally scrap it!

You said you've been to Brisbane, its a great place to unwind, I have fond memories when I was there myself for a few years, at the time checking out Steve Irwin’s Zoo and the Gold Coast. What an amazing time to have been there when the Brisbane Lions did so well. How was your experience of Brisbane, did you take photos?

I like that you have an arty inclination, its a very cathartic way to feel grounded and connected to what you make. What kinds of jewelry and hats do you make?

What part of WA are you from? I'm from South Perth and enjoying the outer suburbs life.

This is where the boring part starts to creep in. Your choice of topic communicates the following things: you're not feeling very confident therefore you start with something "safe" - like memories of a trip years ago. It also exposes your attempt to please her because you chose something from her profile to talk about. The hidden logic is: hey, she has listed this place - that means she likes it, therefore I should express a similar opinion and earn some points (even if I did not really like the place).

You could have avoided the pitfall by choosing a better topic: tell something exciting that has happened to you recently or what are you planning to do. Ask about something that is outside of her profile - like what are her favorite shoes and why does she like them? Some general rules here:
i) show that you're confident enough to speak about any topic you like
ii) do not be too impressed by her profile. Some small nitpicking and disagreements demonstrate your confidence. Compliments are fine though.
iii) show some interest about her personality. "Did you take photos" hardly counts.
iv) "What kinds of jewelry and hats do you make?" is the type of question you would ask a professional but not a woman whom you try to grab romantic attention. Ask about how she feels, what motivates her instead. The communication must be at emotional level.

Also: do not rush with personal data like city. It's just a place after all and does not tell much about a person.

On to your last letter...

More old stories revisited. You're trying to build a relationship here and it's happening right here and now - so you should talk about it instead of times far away. Notice the control sequences in your language "You shouldn’t be apologetic", "You'll have to show us some of the photos". Avoid those and especially do not ever tell her how to feel about something.

The rest is your life story - neither asked nor cared about by this woman. It lacks your sensitivity towards the relationship because you could have told that story to almost anyone. Well anyone who has "Brisbane" in their profile at least.

Whew, that was some analysis Hope you have some use from it for your future endeavors.

 

[Nixie]

Wow, Tamagochi has some great advice about the language in your posts. Maybe it is just me, but I am sensing anger. Perhaps you project your anger about being lonely which makes you less attractive to a woman. I always stay away from angry guys because I don't find that appealing. While the old adages seem trite, they hold some very real truths--you have to work at yourself and be comfortable with yourself before you can expect someone else to bring joy and contentment to your life. Rather, an inner journey will serve you well. You are obviously searching for something and I would suggest you start within rather than without.

 

[toska]

This is where the boring part starts to creep in. Your choice of topic communicates the following things: you're not feeling very confident therefore you start with something "safe" - like memories of a trip years ago. It also exposes your attempt to please her because you chose something from her profile to talk about. The hidden logic is: hey, she has listed this place - that means she likes it, therefore I should express a similar opinion and earn some points (even if I did not really like the place).

I don't agree with this one part. I prefer that people ask me questions about things in my profile because it shows they might have actually took maybe 30 seconds to look over it and try to form some idea of what kind of person I am instead of just contacting me because they liked my pictures. It's annoying how many guys don't even do that much. It seems they just want to shove all their ideals of the "perfect woman" onto someone they don't even know. I just want to know that we have things in common first.

 

[SamE]

First things first. The main problem with that online conversation you posted in op is that it's boring and it's fake. The woman had probably assumed that you have the same qualities as well and her attention shifted elsewhere. Now let's go over it in some detail:

Whew, that was some analysis Hope you have some use from it for your future endeavors.

Thank you very kindly will absorb your words and apply a better mode of conversation. I wanted to say that she asked if I had any experience. And I told her one, though that was a brief encounter that was a friend not a past relationship. I have none to draw on that is part of the problem. The other being my topic of conversation is limited to health, work and family mostly, this I believe is me being asperger like. Ever since my absorbing high lead levels from my negative family business my personality has become more and more one dimensional which is difficult. I see it. Which is why I went from a social job in customer service as I couldn't communicate to stacking shelves at a supermarket. Which is hard knowing I had incredible charisma and personality when I was 7, were that kind of attitude and energy translated to my adult life my love life would have been leaps and bounds better.

And the next problem is my situational description is gone, this happens with my friends too. Been going out to liveband performances for years and for the life of me I don't remember them. I don't know how to talk about them, I am boring and my ISFP friends don't know how to talk to me. I just talk about work, health and family. :/
Oh and personality too but they don't want to talk about that. This is where a big part of my confidence goes, I'm strangely finding it difficult to communicate in well after the 29 odd years I lived with critical INTJ family members.

I have to say I have found the Emotional Guidance System very helpful and feel an interesting change in recent months.

 

[SamE]

Wow, Tamagochi has some great advice about the language in your posts. Maybe it is just me, but I am sensing anger. Perhaps you project your anger about being lonely which makes you less attractive to a woman. I always stay away from angry guys because I don't find that appealing. While the old adages seem trite, they hold some very real truths--you have to work at yourself and be comfortable with yourself before you can expect someone else to bring joy and contentment to your life. Rather, an inner journey will serve you well. You are obviously searching for something and I would suggest you start within rather than without.

Maybe...you would start to get frustrated too if your personality faded and you got stuck as much as I have and experienced pretty much zero intimacy and affection from females and family like I have. You know we are social beings and as such without oxytocin or the expression of touch we do harden our defenses and are more frigid in our communication I know. Especially if you were an absorber of emotions and you also unintentionally absorbed your families emotional toxicity as I have in the past, you would unintentionally project that outwardly. Luckily I bought a black tourmaline crystal that absorbs negativity and now I am guided by my feelings more and more.

And then imagine the enormous strength needed to push through barriers on my own, how much that may shut a person down. Its like learning to stop asking after awhile because you don't know if there is anyone that wants you and all of a sudden you find your self BIG. Like the movie big with Tom Hanks. Except there is no progress. While people start families, enjoy relationships, friends, relatives, children, extended family, my life has been in isolation thanks to my father until the last 4 years. That would be hard to move through, to have no one to talk to and you would go deeper within yourself, the defenses would just be so high.

But anyway I'm doing it again. Who cares, its the past, bringing up the past has zero relevance to the present. In the now we are manifestations of positive intention and positive intention is our birthright to experience a world of love.

 

[SamE]

I've been reading a book called The Vortex by Esther and Jerry Hicks and I liked the way the thoughts are composed.

If you are feeling lonely or frustrated about not yet meeting your mate, you are not a match to your vibrational reality, so your rendezvous is postponed. If you are remembering past unpleasant relationship and using those as your justification for wanting or needing a better one, you are a match to what you do not want, and what you do want is postponed. But if you can bring yourself to a place of consistently feeling good, even in the absence of the relationship that you desire, the rendezvous is certain,

Think about what you want in a relationship and why you want it. Look for those around you who are experiencing good relationships, and feel appreciation for them. Makes lists of the positive aspects of those you have spent time with

 

[SamE]

I started taking CellClear and its bringing out emotions so if I sounded more than a bit abrupt of late then that explains my angsty mood. I tend to react very strongly to it and I'm stubbornly not following the naturopaths suggestion of taking a 1/4 spoon instead a fool spoon like before and its so messing with me. hahah I'm like that, either go off stuff cold turkey or I take stuff to punish myself. hmm, bad sign right there.

CellClear provides a combination of nutrients and minerals that promote normal liver and digestive function as well as healthy serum oestrogen levels. Broccoli sprout extract and MSM are involved in liver detoxification pathways and along with cysteine, provide antioxidant support. Coriander is involved in the detoxification of mercury from tissues, while chlorella, zinc and magnesium provide additional nutritional support.

Key Benefits

• A specially formulated blend of nutrients, fibre and herbs for detoxification and oestrogen balance.
• CellClear is designed to support:

- Phase 2 detoxifying pathways in the liver
- Mercury detoxification
- Normal healthy oestrogen metabolism and balance
- Glutathione and superoxide dismutase synthesis
- Cellular metabolism
- Bowel health

• Contains cracked chorella to maximise digestibility and bioavailablilty.

 

[SamE]

Oh crap I did it again. I responded to a lady that has 92% compatibility in the worst way possible. Its a defensive reaction, I wonder if its part of my Fi-Si loop.

Of course amazing women like yourself live in different parts of Australia than Perth.

Its been a long time since I was active on here and realise my profile is out of character to who I am. I felt the need to condense rather than expand on information. I was hardly receiving much when my profile was deep. Its my reserved nature in many ways.

Her query of

It is strange that the majority didn't like your "deep" profile. Perhaps, so many don't like reading

Got me to respond like this

Wow you responded back, thank you.

When I read your profile I had a profound feeling, you wrote thoughtfully and evoked an emotional intelligence that few know how to express. And then I knew I wanted to talk to you, your words resonated and there is no telling how far this conversation will go but I do know that I appreciate your response.

Your right, the Internet opens lines of communication that would hardly happen.

How alternative are you?

Here is how my profile might read were it deeper.

"Let me start by saying that I believe in positive intention, when somebody feels like they can open up in a safe place and trust to do so then the energy is connected. Many times we go through life subconsciously projecting images, these are those imprints as described by Carl Jung, the anima animus.

Whereby on a subconscious level we are filtering our experiences from the images that most influences our lives and then our upbringing parallels those realities throughout our lives. And this tends to be something many friends, families and relationships don't know about. Which means when our energy, our thought intentions are moving in certain ways then those energies are returned in kind.

Its a bit like synchronicity, the experience of two or more events that are apparently causally unrelated occurring together in a meaningful manner.

There are 8 stages of intimacy that friends, families and relationships are inclined to experience, the physical, aesthetic, recreational, intellectual, spiritual, emotional, sexual and unconditional kind. I read about it and the most accurate description I know is that many friends and families for that matter experience a few of them without understand their deeper natures and I want to explore them.

My worst habit is talking in an analytical manner. My best habit is being an interesting conversationalist when people know how to draw the information out of me. "

I think that would hardly gain much responses, neither would my friend editing my profile thinking the grammatical errors were accidental.

I'm looking for friends that I can communicate with without having to hide my intensity, passions, integrity, creativity and honesty. To have deep and meaningful conversations that are positive experiences.

Oh man I swear there is just something off putting when you read that.

Just because I love the 8 stages of intimacy shouldn't mean I should start talking about it off the bad. where is that DOH! monkey icon again!

 

[SamE]

Way to go in not asking anything about her...its gotta be defensive.

 

[kita]

Way to go in not asking anything about her...its gotta be defensive.

are you going to write her again with some questions?

 

[SamE]

are you going to write her again with some questions?

Would asking questions help after sending out such a response?

 

[kita]

I don't have really any dating experience, but I do know persistence and showing interest in someone really pays off, especially with introverts.

 

[LoneArcher86]

SamE: I apologize if my inquiry as to what you were looking for felt insulting. I assure that was not my intention. My intention was simple to understand your position, so as to hopefully give better advice to your situation.

Keep trying and putting yourself out there! As stated before, it may take some time to find someone who can appreciate you for you. But they are out there, and you will find them.

Be strong and don't give up