[INFJ] On MBTI types

Piers morgan is not an INFJ!

And joseph campbell said ''follow your bliss'' which is an INFJ statement not an INTJ statement

This thread is like the twilight zone where everything is inverted and distorted

I'd like you to break down why these poeple are INFJ's with supporting evidence from their lives, their words and their actions and how these relate to the cognitive functions otherwise you sound like you are just making stuff up or throwing weak and empty justifications out like: 'they have emotional eyes' therefore they are an INFJ
 
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I'd like you to break down why these poeple are INFJ's with supporting evidence from their lives, their words and their actions and how these relate to the cognitive functions otherwise you sound like you are just making stuff up or throwing weak and empty justifications out like: 'they have emotional eyes' therefore they are an INFJ

I second this, it would be good to know where are you coming from with your picture of INFJs, which i also, as previously expresed in this thread, disagreed.

Also, i have read the hero with a thousand faces, i'm not sure if he's an INFJ, but Joseph Campbell seems really NF to me. INTJ seems odd, imo.
 
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I second this, it would be good to know where are you coming from with your picture of INFJs, which i also, as previously expresed in this thread, disagreed.

Also, i have read the hero with a thousand faces, i'm not sure if he's an INFJ, but Joseph Campbell seems really NF to me. INTJ seems odd, imo.

It doesn't seem to matter how many INFJ's or feeling types tell Lucy Jnr that he is talking nonsense he just keeps on going

I have seen many people come onto this forum to attack the INFJ type some of which have come disguised as INFJ's (only to reveal their true MBTI type later) but i have never seen such a sustained attack as the one Lucy Jnr has launched

The INFJ type is the one most likely to resist the centrally controlled authoritarian system and yet Lucy jnr keeps saying that various talk show hosts who are the media gatekeeprs of the system are INFJ's when they are clearly not

This thread is absurd...as in not at all aligned with reality

Lucy seems to be working with socionics and he has said that there are many more INFJ's then MBTI says. He has also said that INFJ's are the most common type in Russia!

MBTI sampling of the population has shown that INFJ's make up 1-2% of the population period and 3 quarters of those are women period

And those are ACTUAL samples not the figments of one persons imagination

If i think in my minds eye of the archetypal russian male i think of a stoic, tough, vodka drinker who like most people who live in countries with a harsh climate is hospitable to strangers

Ditto on campbell....i think he expresses feeling type sentiment
 
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It doesn't seem to matter how many INFJ's or feeling types tell Lucy Jnr that he is talking nonsense he just keeps on going

I have seen many people come onto this forum to attack the INFJ type some of which have come disguised as INFJ's (only to reveal their true MBTI type later) but i have never seen such a sustained attack as the one Lucy Jnr has launched

The INFJ type is the one most likely to resist the centrally controlled authoritarian system and yet Lucy jnr keeps saying that various talk show hosts who are the media gatekeeprs of the system are INFJ's when they are clearly not

This thread is absurd...as in not at all aligned with reality

Lucy seems to be working with socionics and he has said that there are many more INFJ's then MBTI says. He has also said that INFJ's are the most common type in Russia!

MBTI sampling of the population has shown that INFJ's make up 1-2% of the population period and 3 quarters of those are women period

And those are ACTUAL samples not the figments of one persons imagination

If i think in my minds eye of the archetypal russian male i think of a stoic, tough, vodka drinker who like most people who live in countries with a harsh climate is hospitable to strangers

Ditto on campbell....i think he expresses feeling type sentiment

What does your preconceived notion on Russian males matter? Can infjs not be that way?
 
What does your preconceived notion on Russian males matter?

Admittedly not a lot

For a more accurate impression you'd have to look at MBTI sampling

My perception is only really based on the observations of travel writers and TV travel show hosts as well as the usual media influences as well as the slavic immigrants I've met in my country

But i find it hard to believe that MBTI sampling in the US would place INFJ's at 1-2% of the population and yet something miraculous had occured in Rusia whereby INFJ's had somehow become the most common type!

What is it...does vodka turn people into an INFJ? Perhaps i certainly drank my share in my youth

But what i think a far more likely scenario is is that a climate of paranoia was created in Russia because they had a coup there which overthrew their royal family. The group that did that were called the Bolsheviks and their leaders were jewish and their financial backers were the jewish bankers of wallstreet

This in itself would create suspicions in a country where jews were a minority

Adding to that suspicion would be the way the bolsheviks violently crushed the slavic russian revolutionary group called the menshiviks; the bolsheviks then launched a killing spree reign of teror that killed more people than the later nazi holocaust

The bolsheviks then did various dealings with hitler which then fell apart as stalin took over. By some accounts stalin a georgian man threw a spanner in the works of the international bankers by preventing the russian economy from 'liberalising' which is to say letting in the international bankers (and oil cartel) in to exploit their markets and suck their economy dry

This lead to a race between the russians and the allies to invade germany in order to not only grab the resources of germany but also its scientists and their research on a variety of subjects from rocket science to mind control

The allies grabbed the Ruhr region which was the industrial heartland of germany thereby denying russia (which was a peasant economy) the industrial might she needed to win the ensuing 'cold' war which was not cold at all, it was just fought through proxys. The paranoia went into overdrive with the creation of the nuclear bombs and its use on the japanese; some voices in the US military were advocating a nuclear attack on the russians before they could develop their own bomb which they did ahead of expectations in 1950

So you see in that climate of paranoia and fear the central controllers were always arresting and often killing or imprisoning in siberian gualags anyone they suspected of having antagonistic thoughts towards their authority

It is in such a climate that certain types known for independent thought and creativity are demonised and persecuted by the authorities. For example: artistic types, writers, journalists and so on who are the kind of people who are able to help others see things a certain way

Socionics was created out of this climate of fear and the creator was given an award by the central authorities because they had given them a tool by which they felt they could identify possible troublemakers

This is kind of in the territory now of 'minority report' 'pre-crime' where you demonise an entire MBTI type because of their commonly expressed traits

It seems to me that Lucy Jnr has read some of this paranoid cold war era population control material and is expressing their anti-INFJ agenda

It also ties into what he is saying about how INFJ's should be made to join the army! That also ties into cold war era thinking where large amounts of people were conscripted into the military

Why i think his thinking is dangerous is because i belive it comes from a left brain dominant control system mentality which always seeks to suck the colour out of life by destroying artistic types and creative and sensitive and expressive types who are the people who bring the colour and flair to human society. They are simply the people who make life worth living

This concept was captured well in the german film 'the lives of others' where the east german left brain stasi were spying on creative right brain people who were theatre directors, playrights and actors; it is well worth a watch to understand better what i am talking about here; the film contains an important lesson and a warning for all of us about the future

Can infjs not be that way?

I don't personally believe that the russian stereotypical national character is an expression of the INFJ type

We have a lot of polish immigrants here in scotland and they have that tough slavic character; they don't as whole strike me as being mostly INFJ's

I reckon they are the same or similar percentages of MBTI as in the US
 
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Admittedly not a lot


Why i think his thinking is dangerous is because i belive it comes from a left brain dominant control system mentality which always seeks to suck the colour out of life by destroying artistic types and creative and sensitive and expressive types who are the people who bring the colour and flair to human society. They are simply the people who make life worth living

I agree that there is a stamping out of creative fire in the modern era, even though we are surrounded by entertainment and the arts, we are expected to consume it, not create it. Even much of the entertainment has a formula to it to guarantee a return on their investments(thinking Hollywood here). They have taken way the arts for elementary kids where I live until fourth grade to save money. It was voted out by the practical-minded and anti-tax zealots. Everything is based around excelling in math and science, and while it is important to have good math and science curriculum available for those are naturally gifted in those subjects, they aren't the only subjects that are important. I loved science as a kid because it was fascinating and stimulated my natural curiosity and imagination, and not because I wanted to out compete the Chinese government.
 
I agree that there is a stamping out of creative fire in the modern era, even though we are surrounded by entertainment and the arts, we are expected to consume it, not create it. Even much of the entertainment has a formula to it to guarantee a return on their investments(thinking Hollywood here). They have taken way the arts for elementary kids where I live until fourth grade to save money. It was voted out by the practical-minded and anti-tax zealots. Everything is based around excelling in math and science, and while it is important to have good math and science curriculum available for those are naturally gifted in those subjects, they aren't the only subjects that are important. I loved science as a kid because it was fascinating and stimulated my natural curiosity and imagination, and not because I wanted to out compete the Chinese government.

Yeah a lot of 'entertainment' is junk...it's just purely visual..surface crap...lots of flashing movements and big explosions

It doesn't encourage people to think or to feel anything except revulsion, titilation or fear

It's toxic

But the point of 'programming' is to programme the mind and the left brained control system is pushing junk on us; it's all formulaic and repetative with no originality

I remember reading a Biskind book about hollywood and I think it was paul schrader who said about the blockbuster takeover of hollywood: ''when mcdonalds came to town everyone forgot what good food tasted like''; there has been a mcdonaldisation of every area of life....the world is filling up with junk of all kinds

There has been a dumbing down of the population which is not just about lowering IQ it is also about detaching people from the right brain and the heart; it is about pushing people into left brain thinking and unfortunately we are seeing more of that manifest

i totally agree with you that there is a focus on left brain thinking in education and as a result we will lose cultural richness
 
I didn't quite got the difference between the strenght of Se users and the strenght of courage, until recently.

It seems that courage comes solely from character, from "core", from the heart. It is what moral philosophers called a "spiritual good", which never gets old or used. This is true for other virtues as well.

As far as I know, Se users lack the natural courage. This is true for both ESTPs and ESFPs as well. But what is the nature of Se strenght?

Self control...the capacity to resolutely control one's behaviour. This can be of such a nature that it is true, in one sense, that a Se usera can master their behaviour even in the face of fear.
 
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It doesn't seem to matter how many INFJ's or feeling types tell Lucy Jnr that he is talking nonsense he just keeps on going

I have seen many people come onto this forum to attack the INFJ type some of which have come disguised as INFJ's (only to reveal their true MBTI type later) but i have never seen such a sustained attack as the one Lucy Jnr has launched

The INFJ type is the one most likely to resist the centrally controlled authoritarian system and yet Lucy jnr keeps saying that various talk show hosts who are the media gatekeeprs of the system are INFJ's when they are clearly not

This thread is absurd...as in not at all aligned with reality

I don't really know what is his beef with INFJs either, it doesn't seem like it's something personal, but i don't know. Probably some prejudices against people who seem prone to self indulgence, moodiness, etc... But then, i don't really know for sure, i'm only guessing...
But Justin Bieber being the same type as Dostoievsky, Al Pacino, or Carl Jung??? That's weird. Not that i'm biased towards my own type, thing is, that there's absolutely nothing in common between that guy and the other famous INFJs that i do (and many people too after looking on the internet) see as such, and it's, well... interesting to see someone who does.
 
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I am going to describe in short my first solid experience with inferior Se, or more like how it feels.
It feels like pure, stuborn, and flexible strenght of will.
For example, it might be about movements of the body: so smooth, so efforthless, cat-like.
And its also about a pride of will: doing against's people's will simply because you can. It is in a sense, a show of pride.
Self-control its a kind of "earthy" virtue.
 
I don't really know what is his beef with INFJs either, it doesn't seem like it's something personal, but i don't know. Probably some prejudices against people who seem prone to self indulgence, moodiness, etc... But then, i don't really know for sure, i'm only guessing...
But Justin Bieber being the same type as Dostoievsky, Al Pacino, or Carl Jung??? That's weird. Not that i'm biased towards my own type, thing is, that there's absolutely nothing in common between that guy and the other famous INFJs that i do (and many people too after looking on the internet) see as such, and it's, well... interesting to see someone who does.

There is no common ground between those people. I have been listening to Lucy acorss a range of threads...i have given him a fair hearing but i see no method to his madness.

There is a bizarre randomness to what he's saying. There's no correlation

He has also flip-flopped for example he argued strongly against psychiatry in a thread and in that one we were agreeing with each other and then a couple of weeks later he posts saying that he's found out that everything he believes to be the case is wrong

He then start arguing that psychiatry is totally right and that INFJ's are just a plague on the planet; it was a total change in him...it was weird...like he was brainwashed!

He also seems to think that half the people on the planet are INFJ's

Now i've watched the 'INFJ haters' as i call them come and go on the forum over the years and i've observed their tactics. It can be quite amusing because some INFJ haters will say that INFJ's don't exist at all whilst other INFJ haters will say that they do exist but that there are tons of them and they are nothing 'special' or unusual and in fact they make up half the population!

rofl!

So this is the funny thing about INFJ haters.....they hate us so much that they just want us gone from creation. To do this in their mind they either deny us altogether thereby pretending we don't exist or they go in totally the other direction and admit we do exist but try to water us down by denying the unusual abilities of INFJ's by saying that they are incredibly common thereby implying that most people can do what INFJ's can do! (which is to say process information a certain way)

Lucy Jnr is one of the latter category; he is trying to water down the INFJ type by saying that practically everyone is one. Sampling proves this wrong but he seems happy to fly in the face of hard evidence

Why he has had this sudden flip i don't know for sure but my guess is as i stated above that he has got his hands on some cold war socionics literature which was created to demonise free thinkers and he is now applying that warped approach to his own assessments

The history of socionics as a tool of repression has been raised by both myself and Skarekrow to Lucy Jnr on several occaisions but he has refused to address the matter
 
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It doesn't seem to matter how many INFJ's or feeling types tell Lucy Jnr that he is talking nonsense he just keeps on going

I have seen many people come onto this forum to attack the INFJ type some of which have come disguised as INFJ's (only to reveal their true MBTI type later) but i have never seen such a sustained attack as the one Lucy Jnr has launched

The INFJ type is the one most likely to resist the centrally controlled authoritarian system and yet Lucy jnr keeps saying that various talk show hosts who are the media gatekeeprs of the system are INFJ's when they are clearly not

This thread is absurd...as in not at all aligned with reality

Lucy seems to be working with socionics and he has said that there are many more INFJ's then MBTI says. He has also said that INFJ's are the most common type in Russia!

MBTI sampling of the population has shown that INFJ's make up 1-2% of the population period and 3 quarters of those are women period

And those are ACTUAL samples not the figments of one persons imagination

If i think in my minds eye of the archetypal russian male i think of a stoic, tough, vodka drinker who like most people who live in countries with a harsh climate is hospitable to strangers

Ditto on campbell....i think he expresses feeling type sentiment
That's your problem right there. You have funny archetypes from books?! (I guess) or movies. Go to Russia better!
 
There is no common ground between those people. I have been listening to Lucy acorss a range of threads...i have given him a fair hearing but i see no method to his madness.

There is a bizarre randomness to what he's saying. There's no correlation
I like that in you. You are trying to think logicaly, to follow consistency (Ti). But if would be a little bit more smart you would see that there is actualy correlation and consistency in my statements, althought apparently isn't.

He has also flip-flopped for example he argued strongly against psychiatry in a thread and in that one we were agreeing with each other and then a couple of weeks later he posts saying that he's found out that everything he believes to be the case is wrong

He then start arguing that psychiatry is totally right and that INFJ's are just a plague on the planet; it was a total change in him...it was weird...like he was brainwashed!
I wasn't brainwashed. So it must be something else, isn't it?

He also seems to think that half the people on the planet are INFJ's
No, that's not true. I don't see how I "seem to think" that.


ow i've watched the 'INFJ haters' as i call them come and go on the forum over the years and i've observed their tactics. It can be quite amusing because some INFJ haters will say that INFJ's don't exist at all whilst other INFJ haters will say that they do exist but that there are tons of them and they are nothing 'special' or unusual and in fact they make up half the population!

rofl!

So this is the funny thing about INFJ haters.....they hate us so much that they just want us gone from creation.
Now this is bad. Its like fairytales.
I disagree, and I don't know how you can see the truth. Start by seeing your self-importance a little bit diminished...
Hint: nobody cares that much about INFJs, even if they are aliens or gods. INFJs are not that important, and you also are not that important. As much as you would like to think that "the system" is against the INFJs..."the system" doesn't even reads Jung and MBTI.
Also, you fail to aknowledge the possibility that maybe the system has many INFJ members...just saying.


To do this in their mind they either deny us altogether thereby pretending we don't exist or they go in totally the other direction and admit we do exist but try to water us down by denying the unusual abilities of INFJ's by saying that they are incredibly common thereby implying that most people can do what INFJ's can do! (which is to say process information a certain way)

Lucy Jnr is one of the latter category; he is trying to water down the INFJ type by saying that practically everyone is one. Sampling proves this wrong but he seems happy to fly in the face of hard evidence
"Hard evidence"? There isn't any hard eveidence for the rarity of INFJs. Please who me if you have one...be sure its hard.

Why he has had this sudden flip i don't know for sure but my guess is as i stated above that he has got his hands on some cold war socionics literature which was created to demonise free thinkers and he is now applying that warped approach to his own assessments
No I didn't. This is a false conspiracy theory. because its not true.


The history of socionics as a tool of repression has been raised by both myself and Skarekrow to Lucy Jnr on several occaisions but he has refused to address the matter
i just think its absurd. For example, the Russian national writter is Dostoievsky, and he is a INFJ. Also Yessenin, their national poet. So...
 
That's your problem right there. You have funny archetypes from books?! (I guess) or movies. Go to Russia better!

Agreed going to russia would be best

But you are still in the problem that you cannot prove that there are loads of INFJ's in Russia
 
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Now this is bad. Its like fairytales.
I disagree, and I don't know how you can see the truth. Start by seeing your self-importance a little bit diminished...
Hint: nobody cares that much about INFJs, even if they are aliens or gods. INFJs are not that important, and you also are not that important. As much as you would like to think that "the system" is against the INFJs..."the system" doesn't even reads Jung and MBTI.

This shows your level of naivety right there

The system loves psychometric testing...loves it!

It gets done at school it gets done for jobs and especially government jobs

The people who run the system are very aware of psychology, demographics, propaganda and all the rest and if you were aware of the 4 temperaments, astrology and various occult writings that deal with psyhological issues you'd know that the elites have had an interest in the workings of the human mind for millenia

Also, you fail to aknowledge the possibility that maybe the system has many INFJ members...just saying.

Not likely due to the anti-authoritarian nature of the INFJ type

"Hard evidence"? There isn't any hard eveidence for the rarity of INFJs. Please who me if you have one...be sure its hard.

All the sampling that has been done...actual testing...not Lucy Jnr fantasy land

No I didn't. This is a false conspiracy theory. because its not true.

You want to change your story now and tell me you are not working with socionics material?

i just think its absurd. For example, the Russian national writter is Dostoievsky, and he is a INFJ. Also Yessenin, their national poet. So...

well yes lucy many writers are INFJ...writers form a tiny portion of the population

Writers and other people of letters who are able to eloquently present their views have always been perceived as a threat to authoritarian systems

Just because a handful of writers out of hundreds of millions of people are INFJ's does not mean that the hundreds of millions are INFJ's...it means that INFJ's are very good with language and creative thinking and often become writers
 
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Here is a young, full of strenght ESTP dude. He is not the Se subtype (which is even more strong), but the Ti subtype, Jason Momoa.

[video=youtube;3QeeecJDFaM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QeeecJDFaM[/video]

[video=youtube;Hbj0V5qdIxo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hbj0V5qdIxo[/video]

Observe those icy, cold bloded eyes. THAT is ESTP right there. A ESTP is a "creature" that is capable of such a confidence and strenght as to defy any man who tries in one way or another to diminish their ego. They have that, it is their favorite thing to do, to show their strenght, their pride. Their very core says something like this: Watch me how mighty and proud I am. You can not command me, I am not one of those who can be coerced into anything. You have to say the magic words to me..."

Now just for the comparation sake, let's observe the ESTP mirror, with exactly opposite functions, the ISTJ actor Mel Gibson.

[video=youtube;goGf_tFsros]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goGf_tFsros[/video]

A very different "creature". Mel Gibson is a strong man, who imposes respect and dignity with his presence, but his strenght, unlike that of Jason Momoa, does not come from self-confidence and self-reliance, but rather from his very character, from his inner most being, from "heart".
That is the difference.

As a person, Jason Momoa has a weak character, by far inferior to that of Mel Gibson. They are both strong people, especialy Jason Momoa, but what is the nature of each other's strenght???
The ESTP has a kind of caopacity to master his own will, and coupled with his strong logical capabilities, he has a kind of self-confidence and self-reliance, that is very very strong. The ISTJ Mel Gibson on the other hand, does not have that self-confidence and self-reliance (I bet he is a man who can be easily lead and fooled to do certain things, because he lacks that virtue that ESTPs have, self-control), but what he does have, which is much more precious, is COURAGE and resolution of will.
So the difference is this: Jason Momoa's streght comes from self-control (which is a kind of virtue, but it can not be considered a natural virtue), while Mel Gibson's strenght comes from character, from courage.
 
Sharon Stone is a ESTP actress. She is the Se subtype, the most harsh, agressive, and fiery of ESTPs.

[video=youtube;jKeSodPK5GI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKeSodPK5GI[/video]

Barbara Walters is also a ESTP woman, the Se subtype.
 
Simon Cowell is a ISTP man.

[video=youtube;MvySUwO_Qf4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvySUwO_Qf4[/video]

Just for curiosity, I've looked at comments to see people's impressions about Simon Cowell. I was looking for the word honesty, and I found just one, just one person who wrotte "He is so honest, I love that in people!" beaside several women who wrotte that he is "genuine" and "real".
Which is true, but I wonder how many people can recognise it. The words of this guy come out of his mouth like they are bullets: there is 0 hypocrisy, there is 0 niceties and insincerity in him. He is a uterly sincere man.
This is how one can recognise easily ESTPs and ISTPs: they hate pretense of any kind, and they are usualy loved like crazy by women. Women like sincerity, because it takes courage to have it.
 
[video=youtube;sgTPP2ibatI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgTPP2ibatI[/video]

Starting 42:20, the neurologist is the definition of Ne-dom. He's probably an ENTP or ENFP
 
[video=youtube;sgTPP2ibatI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgTPP2ibatI[/video]

Starting 42:20, the neurologist is the definition of Ne-dom. He's probably an ENTP or ENFP

I think the guy is a Ni dude, more exactly, a INTJ. He even has that specific stuborness that INTJs have.
His eyes are focused, the mark of Ni. His all stare looks like the focal point of a laser, to use a funny metaphor. Its like they look trough everything, focusing deeply on something specific.
Ne eyes are exactly the opposite.

Here is Lawrence Kraus, a ENTP scientiest. Watch his Ne eyes:

[video=youtube;POJ-tunPrcE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POJ-tunPrcE[/video]

He looks like a man who is unable to gather his thoughts, to focus on something, due to the great diversity of ideas going in his mind. Eyes are scattered, unfocused, dreamy, and they have a slighty "naive" impression, unlike Ni.
 
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