Organized Religion gave birth to Civilization

I agree with randomsomeone.

If anyone thinks that the religions of the ancients compare to the religions of today, then you are nuts.
 
Actually, dealing with religion today (in a healthy way) generally involves a bit of deconstruction and a return to more organic, holistic, human norms that are still very much there but may have been forgotten in the fray. When we do this, we return to a heart of religion that is probably more in synch with our more ancient ancestors. For religion, this is a path of renewal. As we deconstruct the dogmas, doctrines, and theory, we find their true worth....that of liberating people, expanding their/our human potential, illuminating life choices, connecting with the world around us, finding inner freedom. I can only imagine that these core issues are as old at humanity, and they have less to do with technology and more with our sense of worth and dignity.

I remember once reading about a neanderthal burial site in which the body of a woman was found carefully adorned with flowers and other simple signs of respect and love. Demonstrations such as this begs us to question the human heart and what is really making us tick within. I believe there is something of great worth there.
 
randomsomeone said:
Actually, dealing with religion today (in a healthy way) generally involves a bit of deconstruction and a return to more organic, holistic, human norms that are still very much there but may have been forgotten in the fray. When we do this, we return to a heart of religion that is probably more in synch with the more ancient ancestors. For religion, this is a path of renewal. As we deconstruct the dogmas, doctrines, and theory, we find their true worth....that of liberating people, expanding their/our human potential, illuminating life choices, connecting with the world around us, finding inner freedom. I can only imagine that these core issues are as old at humanity, and they have less to do with technology and more with our sense of worth and dignity.

I remember once reading about a neanderthal burial site in which the body of a woman was found carefully adorned with flowers and other simple signs of respect and love. Demonstrations such as this begs us to question the human heart and what is really making us tick within. I believe there is something of great worth there.
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So burying someone = sign of religion? You cant have mourning and gift giving to the dead without religion? I dont get it... we cant say if they had religion or not, its impossible to tell. Atheists bury loved ones too you know. And religion doesn't really free people... It stops the thinking process and offers answers, thats the opposite of remaining open and free.
 
randomsomeone said:
I remember once reading about a neanderthal burial site in which the body of a woman was found carefully adorned with flowers and other simple signs of respect and love. Demonstrations such as this begs us to question the human heart and what is really making us tick within. I believe there is something of great worth there.
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This certainly demonstrates something of the human condition (if we stretch the definition of "human" to include neanderthals, which may not be too much of stretch because we may have some neanderthal genes in our genome). That which motivates "religious man" may emanate from our earliest history and this may fit with the metaphorical "Eden."
 
Billy said:
So burying someone = sign of religion? You cant have mourning and gift giving to the dead without religion? I dont get it... we cant say if they had religion or not, its impossible to tell. Atheists bury loved ones too you know. And religion doesn't really free people... It stops the thinking process and offers answers, thats the opposite of remaining open and free.
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As I remember it, among the gifts buried with the dead were tools, which, without some sense of an afterlife for the deceased, would have been a tremendous economic waste and meaningless.
 
Billy said:
So burying someone = sign of religion? You cant have mourning and gift giving to the dead without religion?
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My example is only meant to illustrate more complex levels of thinking and feeling among ancient peoples. What that exactly means is subject to discussion.

Billy said:
And religion doesn't really free people... It stops the thinking process and offers answers, thats the opposite of remaining open and free.
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This demonstrates that you may not really understand religion, not at it's core levels. That's okay....this seems a pretty common viewpoint these days.

Trust me, I have no intention of offering excuses for the misuse and manipulation of religion now or in times past....it was desperately wrong and it is still wrong. All I'm saying there is most definitely another side and that it is worth considering....expecially for those who claim adherence to a religion.
 
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Flavus Aquila said:
Please understand that this is not an insult: that is one of the most stupid things anyone has ever said on these forums.

Marxism, the foundation of communism is atheistic. It is estimated that Stalin alone (during his lifetime) was responsible for the death of at least 65,000,000 Russians.

Try and tell the people of Tibet, whose leader is the Dalai Lama that no one has ever been killed by an atheist.
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Well, people have died for no other reason than for what they believe when the killer isn't trying to take over the world. As was said earlier, religion was in the way of communism taking over the world.

You're adding political motivations into the mix. Those people were killed in the name of communism, not Darwin.
 
Everyone dies.

The reasons for death are almost endless. Religion is how people cope with that reality. Atheism is just another method of coping. Both religion and atheism can and are used to perpetrate injustice. People are good at making excuses for their evil and they'll twist any belief system to that end.

Further, atheism will not succeed in getting rid of religion because people will find new ideologies to worship (materialism, politics, etc.) and people naturally organize themselves in groups so soon you'll find yourself with organized religion/pseudo-religion again. Atheists set themselves a really ambitious task if they are going to overcome the human tendency to organize into groups. They can expect resistance and where there is enough resistance violence and injustice often follow.
 
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Hey bickelz!

It is a mistake to attribute communism's persecution of religion to imperialism. All down through history, imperialists ACCOMODATE religion to seal the unity of their empire, whether it is giving preference to just one religion (as in the Ottoman Empire) or by allowing many religions (as in the Roman Empire.) The reason for communisms persecution of religion is IDEOLOGY. Communists simply believed religion was a bad thing, and needed to be stamped out. It is identical equation for jihad, just different numbers used for the variables.
 
The way the Bolsheviks practiced it, Communism was a religion.
 
Billy said:
And religion doesn't really free people... It stops the thinking process and offers answers, thats the opposite of remaining open and free.
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Au contraire; no way religion stops the thinking process, at least it did not for me. It sent me down many a path to better understanding by questioning things in detail. Religion, in and of itself, may or may not do as you say. My religious beliefs did indeed set me free from bondage; the bondage of the burden of the law and sin. The way I see it, people generally get more out of something the more they put into it. Don't expect to skim the surface and understand the depths and realities of something extensively.
d1.webp
 
Brown-Pelican-diving-in-fronto-f-setting-sun-DIGITAL-COMPOSITE-_E0W9395--Fort-DeSoto-Park,-FL.webp
Even diving in has limitations, both physical and spiritual, for most people.

Some folk go to great extremes just to try and visit the depths, knowing their visits are but for a moment of exhilirating memories and experience.

blue03.webp
 
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It is so important to use all the different people with all their different types of gifts for better understanding. Going it alone is important, but will never grasp the indepth understanding acquired when shared with others and their own understandings.

Just looking will not give the understanding necessary, though it can be breathtaking.

3196038212_18de08b2e0.webp
 
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