Original Sin--Born with the sin nature...

wonkavision said:
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that. Why else would I preach this with such urgency?

I've warned you all countless times to seek the Lord's mercy right now!
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Sorry you have simply failed to make a coherent argument and doomed us all to hell fire for all eternity... if only you didn't alienate us all by calling them names and being antagonistic maybe you might have convinced some.
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
Umm I'm pretty sure there is one other guy who believes it... used to be an archangel called him the mourning star...
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Alright then, for real....Are you telling me that you once believed the things that I'm preaching? That you were what some would call a "Calvinist"?
That you believed in the "Doctrines of Grace"?

  • You believed that all of us, by nature, are totally depraved, and incapable of doing any good?
  • That, before the world was, God chose to save a particular people, apart from their works?
  • That God sent his Son to die for the sins of only those people and no one else?
  • That God graciously overpowers the will of the sinner, and makes it so that he will believe?
  • That once God saves a sinner by grace, that sinner can never lose his salvation?

If you once believed that and now you do not, then you never believed it with true, saving faith.

If you did believe it with true, saving faith, then you will come back to it. I'm certain of that.

And I will call you "brother," and I will thank God that he did not leave you in your natural state.
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
Sorry you have simply failed to make a coherent argument and doomed us all to hell fire for all eternity... if only you didn't alienate us all by calling them names and being antagonistic maybe you might have convinced some.
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It's not my job to coddle you and make you feel good. it's my job to tell you the truth.

Whatever failures you see in me are no excuse at all for your willful unbelief of the truth.
 
wonkavision said:
What on earth are you talking about? I never said that. Why else would I preach this with such urgency?

I've warned you all countless times to seek the Lord's mercy right now!
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Nothing we do through wisdom or works matters to God... so go on a tear now and I'll recant on my deathbed. That's a pretty sweet loophole.... God's forgiving... but only if he chooses you in the celestial lottery... different words same meaning
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
Nothing we do through wisdom or works matters to God... so go on a tear now and I'll recant on my deathbed. That's a pretty sweet loophole.... God's forgiving... but only if he chooses you in the celestial lottery... different words same meaning
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What I said is that God himself decides who is saved and who is not saved.

What would you suggest? That it's man, by his own, so-called "free will" who decides who's saved?

Please answer me that: is it God or man who decides who is saved, and who is not saved?

You will find out the answer to that one day, either in mercy, or under God's wrath.
 
Your logic:

"If it's up to God to save whom he will, and to condemn whom he will, then I might as well do nothing and hope that God will pick me, and if not, oh well."

---That's called "fatalism."

Wisdom:

"If it's up to God to save whom he will, and to condemn whom he will, then I'd better seek his mercy and grace right now! I have no other hope!"

---That's called "faith."
 
wonkavision said:
Alright then, for real....Are you telling me that you once believed the things that I'm preaching? That you were what some would call a "Calvinist"?
That you believed in the "Doctrines of Grace"?

  • You believed that all of us, by nature, are totally depraved, and incapable of doing any good?
  • That, before the world was, God chose to save a particular people, apart from their works?
  • That God sent his Son to die for the sins of only those people and no one else?
  • That God graciously overpowers the will of the sinner, and makes it so that he will believe?
  • That once God saves a sinner by grace, that sinner can never lose his salvation?

If you once believed that and now you do not, then you never believed it with true, saving faith.

If you did believe it with true, saving faith, then you will come back to it. I'm certain of that.

And I will call you "brother," and I will thank God that he did not leave you in your natural state.
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Nope, but I believed in something so hard it drowned out all the doubts I had about that doctrine. No amount of arguing could dissuade me because I was right and had faith... then when I realized someone else believed just as hard about there doctrine, I decided to go on a lifelong search for truth using heart as my guide and here I am.

...and when I told you I made a covenent with God you took huge steaming pile all over it... forgive me if I no longer hold you or your "religion" and I use the term loosely, in the highest regard.
 
wonkavision said:
What I said is that God himself decides who is saved and who is not saved.

What would you suggest? That it's man, by his own, so-called "free will" who decides who's saved?

Please answer me that: is it God or man who decides who is saved, and who is not saved?

You will find out the answer to that one day, either in mercy, or under God's wrath.
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Good question: God decides who is saved based on whether man chooses him of his own free will. If man chooses God, God will choose man right back, because that's love. The choosing of each other.
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
Good question: God decides who is saved based on whether man chooses him of his own free will. If man chooses God, God will choose man right back, because that's love. The choosing of each other.
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That would be fine and dandy if man would choose him. But man will not do that, because he is lost!

He might choose a "god" of his own imagination, but he will not choose the true and living God!

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." -- Romans 3:10-12


"Blessed is the man whom thou (God) choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: ...." -- Psalm 65:4

"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power..." -- Psalm 110:3
 
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wonkavision said:
It's not just my truth. It's the word of God.

The sad thing is that I care more for your soul than you do yourself, and I don't even know you!

Please click on this link, and listen to any sermon: https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....urrSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Don^Fortner
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So, here's my problem when we got to a place where we agreed on something and I explained position you just said I was full of crap and cited no bible passages or cited any reason.

Also, you essentially say a covanent with God is impossible even though you agree that God is a covanent God... and it has happened throughout the bible. Everyone (and anyone feel free to correct me anyone) has universally dismissed your arguement due to either lack of logic, lack of appropriate scripture citation to support your arguements, or just a general lack of respect for your fellow man. Your vision is skewed and hence your version of the three edged sword is also skewed, but you care for my soul... that's a plus
 
wonkavision said:
That would be fine and dandy if man would choose him. But man will not do that, because he is lost!

He might choose a "god" of his own imagination, but he will not choose the true and living God!

"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one." -- Romans 3:10-12


"Blessed is the man whom thou (God) choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: ...." -- Psalm 65:4

"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power..." -- Psalm 110:3
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Who is they? They is not me. I AM. The spirit of God is in me and I chose it... any questions.

God made man in his image
God is spirit
Man has God inside him and cannot die
There was a time when man forgot God, but he never left.

Roman 25 God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement
 
wonkavision said:
  • You believed that all of us, by nature, are totally depraved, and incapable of doing any good?
  • That, before the world was, God chose to save a particular people, apart from their works?
  • That God sent his Son to die for the sins of only those people and no one else?
  • That God graciously overpowers the will of the sinner, and makes it so that he will believe?
  • That once God saves a sinner by grace, that sinner can never lose his salvation?
Click to expand...

Wow, really?
What a terrible and pessimistic view of God.
It makes him into a bully and punishes people for things they have no knowledge of.
Bible clearly says that he was sent to save the “whole world” - obviously you think Jesus failed.
And no...not all of us are totally depraved, and incapable of doing and good - that is proven wrong every second of every day by billions of people around the world.
But I see...since you are “saved” by “grace" you can do shitty things and repent and it’s all good...gotcha, it’s a convenience of morality.
Must be nice to never take personal responsibility for any of your thoughts or actions.
No wonder you speak so terribly and nasty to people here - you are absolved of any asshole commentary you may make - especially since it’s just the word of God you are reiterating and not your own words.
Though there is that one problem of you still passing your own judgement according to your beliefs and interpretation of certain Biblical verses - you have no place to judge your fellow humankind - only God may do that.
You want others to listen to your message, but you don’t listen to any other viewpoints or take them into consideration...if you are so sure of your faith then it shouldn’t phase you.

Depraved...wtf?
This whole - human nature is to be evil and depraved and hate God is just not logical, and imho just plain false.
 
Skarekrow said:
Wow, really?
What a terrible and pessimistic view of God.
It makes him into a bully and punishes people for things they have no knowledge of.
Bible clearly says that he was sent to save the “whole world” - obviously you think Jesus failed.
And no...not all of us are totally depraved, and incapable of doing and good - that is proven wrong every second of every day by billions of people around the world.
But I see...since you are “saved” by “grace" you can do shitty things and repent and it’s all good...gotcha, it’s a convenience of morality.
Must be nice to never take personal responsibility for any of your thoughts or actions.
No wonder you speak so terribly and nasty to people here - you are absolved of any asshole commentary you may make - especially since it’s just the word of God you are reiterating and not your own words.
Though there is that one problem of you still passing your own judgement according to your beliefs and interpretation of certain Biblical verses - you have no place to judge your fellow humankind - only God may do that.
You want others to listen to your message, but you don’t listen to any other viewpoints or take them into consideration...if you are so sure of your faith then it shouldn’t phase you.

Depraved...wtf?
This whole - human nature is to be evil and depraved and hate God is just not logical, and imho just plain false.
Click to expand...

Let me ask you once again, why does this bother you so much? If you think I'm wrong, then what's the problem?

Why so emotional about something you think its stupid and false? Maybe it's because it makes you feel guilty and scared?

Good! That's what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to make you concerned about the state of your soul! I'm glad that it seems to be working. And maybe, just maybe, it will cause you to seek the Lord's mercy.

As Paul said, "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." -- 2 Cor 5:20

 
Proverbs 1:22-33 -- The Lord says, to you, who mock his Word, and slander his messengers: "How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? (23) Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. (24) Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; (25) But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: (26) I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; (27) When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. (28) Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: (29) For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: (30) They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. (31) Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. (32) For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. (33) But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil."
 
Skarekrow said:
Wow, really?
What a terrible and pessimistic view of God.
It makes him into a bully and punishes people for things they have no knowledge of.
Bible clearly says that he was sent to save the “whole world” - obviously you think Jesus failed.
And no...not all of us are totally depraved, and incapable of doing and good - that is proven wrong every second of every day by billions of people around the world.
But I see...since you are “saved” by “grace" you can do shitty things and repent and it’s all good...gotcha, it’s a convenience of morality.
Must be nice to never take personal responsibility for any of your thoughts or actions.
No wonder you speak so terribly and nasty to people here - you are absolved of any asshole commentary you may make - especially since it’s just the word of God you are reiterating and not your own words.
Though there is that one problem of you still passing your own judgement according to your beliefs and interpretation of certain Biblical verses - you have no place to judge your fellow humankind - only God may do that.
You want others to listen to your message, but you don’t listen to any other viewpoints or take them into consideration...if you are so sure of your faith then it shouldn’t phase you.

Depraved...wtf?
This whole - human nature is to be evil and depraved and hate God is just not logical, and imho just plain false.
Click to expand...

God never said he would save the whole world. He saves his "elect", who are a "very small remnant."

Just like he destroyed the whole world in Noah's day except for eight people, and just like he destroyed all of Sodom and Gomorrah in one day except for three people, he has been and will continue to destroy this whole world of ungodly rebels in hell, except for a very small remnant. And I suggest that you stop arguing with me and seek the Lord's mercy before it's too late.
 
wonkavision said:
Let me ask you once again, why does this bother you so much? If you think I'm wrong, then what's the problem?

Why so emotional about something you think its stupid and false? Maybe it's because it makes you feel guilty and scared?

Good! That's what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to make you concerned about the state of your soul! I'm glad that it seems to be working. And maybe, just maybe, it will cause you to seek the Lord's mercy.

As Paul said, "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." -- 2 Cor 5:20
Click to expand...
wonkavision said:
Proverbs 1:22-33 -- The Lord says, to you, who mock his Word, and slander his messengers: "How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? (23) Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you. (24) Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand, and no man regarded; (25) But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none of my reproof: (26) I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh; (27) When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh as a whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. (28) Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me: (29) For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: (30) They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. (31) Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices. (32) For the turning away of the simple shall slay them, and the prosperity of fools shall destroy them. (33) But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil."
Click to expand...

Wow... I'd say your in real trouble...
 
wonkavision said:
Let me ask you once again, why does this bother you so much? If you think I'm wrong, then what's the problem?

Why so emotional about something you think its stupid and false? Maybe it's because it makes you feel guilty and scared?

Good! That's what it's supposed to do. It's supposed to make you concerned about the state of your soul! I'm glad that it seems to be working. And maybe, just maybe, it will cause you to seek the Lord's mercy.

As Paul said, "Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God." -- 2 Cor 5:20
Click to expand...
Not emotional - do you have a camera that can see my emotional state - or are you psychic once again?
You can’t make that call - you just sound more idiotic each time you do.
It doesn’t bother me - YOU do.
Capt. Christ.
I’m not emotional - nor am I scared - nor am I guilty.
Annoyed with you, yes...I find you to be a closed-minded joke.
The only reason why I post in return to you is you continue to make false assumptions about me.
Good! You should be scared and guilty and stuff - no...no, I’m not...once again - quit projecting your own neurosis onto me.
And that’s is fucked in the head btw just so you know - how gleefully you want me to be afraid and scared and tortured for eternity - yeah, no.
STFU - you need medication, like serious anti-psychotics.

If you are an “ambassador” to Christ you fail so fucking hard.
Now stop talking to me - how many fucking times have I asked you now?
You can’t understand normal English?
Is your head too thick?
Ears full of wax?
Don’t talk to me - I find everything you have to say worthless and a waste of my time.
If there really is a “Hell” it’s in your heart.
Don’t talk to me again.
Do you understand the words?
Don’t.
Talk.
To.
Me.
 
wonkavision said:
God never said he would save the whole world. He saves his "elect", who are a "very small remnant."

Just like he destroyed the whole world in Noah's day except for eight people, and just like he destroyed all of Sodom and Gomorrah in one day except for three people, he has been and will continue to destroy this whole world of ungodly rebels in hell, except for a very small remnant. And I suggest that you stop arguing with me and seek the Lord's mercy before it's too late.
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Nope.
Wrong.
 
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