Original Sin--Born with the sin nature...

Emanuel Goldstein said:
Yes!! breakthrough!!

The spirit is still in all people, but it speaks softly and gently and is drowned out by Carmel lusts, The orgasm is like a drug and most people would rather have that drug (spilling the power of creation) in ignorance the embrace the spirit you innately have inside. If you open your eyes to see you'll see people have lost their way, having sex everywhere casually. This is what separates man from the spirit and it takes someone exceptional to return to the fold on their own. The need a Shepard to lead them back to the fold. When you give up the vices of this world you can hear God speak through the spirit and he gives you wisdom to interpret the scriptures and any religious books properly.
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Well, unfortunately, you still don't understand that Bible is saying that we're "dead in sins." We can't do anything to make ourselves good. We're inherently sinful in all of our ways.

And also, what you're talking about is trying to earn salvation by your works. That is impossible! God demands perfection! And no one can do that who is born of Adam!

Only Jesus Christ, who is both God and man, who did not have a sin-nature like we do, could obey the law of God perfectly in the place of his chosen people, and die for their sins!

You mentioned before that you are a Nazirite. But God ordained Nazirites for one purpose: to point to Christ, who would come and fulfill all righteousness in the saving of his people!
God does not have an earthly priesthood in this gospel age. Christ is the fulfillment of all that was portrayed in the Old Testament, by all of those priests and all those sacrifices!

What you are doing is counting the blood of Christ as an unclean and unholy thing! And you're setting yourself up as a priest when God has done away with the priesthood. You need Jesus Christ!

If you meet God on the basis of what you have done in the flesh, you're going straight to hell! But if God will, in mercy, cause you to forsake your own works and to trust in Christ alone, you''ll be saved.
 
wonkavision said:
Well, unfortunately, you still don't understand that Bible is saying that we're "dead in sins." We can't do anything to make ourselves good. We're inherently sinful in all of our ways.

And also, what you're talking about is trying to earn salvation by your works. That is impossible! God demands perfection! And no one can do that who is born of Adam!

Only Jesus Christ, who is both God and man, who did not have a sin-nature like we do, could obey the law of God perfectly in the place of his chosen people, and die for their sins!

You mentioned before that you are a Nazirite. But God ordained Nazirites for one purpose: to point to Christ, who would come and fulfill all righteousness in the saving of his people!
God does not have an earthly priesthood in this gospel age. Christ is the fulfillment of all that was portrayed in the Old Testament, by all of those priests and all those sacrifices!

What you are doing is counting the blood of Christ as an unclean and unholy thing! And you're setting yourself up as a priest when God has done away with the priesthood. You need Jesus Christ!

If you meet God on the basis of what you have done in the flesh, you're going straight to hell! But if God will, in mercy, cause you to forsake your own works and to trust in Christ alone, you''ll be saved.
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I made a New Covenant with God, he was suprisingly okay with it because God is a covenant God, your words... I don't know if you've looked around but everyone is under the thrall of the beast, pickings are slim, must be cause he accepted my sinful self. The beast controls the world and you too are worshipping him, whether you know it or not...
 
Yes, I'm well aware that the world is in thrall of the beast. That's what I keep trying to tell you. All of us, by nature, and lost in sin, and the only salvation there is is in Christ!

No, I am not worshipping the beast anymore. I was in my lost, unregenerate state. But God, in his mercy, has opened my eyes, and now I trust him, and I'm safe in his grace.
 
wonkavision said:
Yes, I'm well aware that the world is in thrall of the beast. That's what I keep trying to tell you. All of us, by nature, and lost in sin, and the only salvation there is is in Christ!

No, I am not worshipping the beast anymore. I was in my lost, unregenerate state. But God, in his mercy, has opened my eyes, and now I trust him, and I'm safe in his grace.
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okay fair enough... so the bible is not some superficial book those who read it through the spirit gain deeper hidden knowledge.

For example when the bible talks about opening eyes to see, its talking about the third eye or the mind...

Also, Jesus is man and God
We are man with spirit, spirit is God, We are man and God
Jesus showed us that we all have the potential to be just like him
He showed us the way, the truth and how to achieve life in heaven, by denying temptation of the Carmel pleasures this world offers deny them and you will be set free from this worlds prison... but take it from me it's a narrow road but not an easy one. When I fasted I realized how much food had a grip on me, so I started to eat to live not live to eat.

God sees your pain... he doesn't want you to trade one pain for the other, but he admires your tenacity...
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
okay fair enough... so the bible is not some superficial book those who read it through the spirit gain deeper hidden knowledge.

For example when the bible talks about opening eyes to see, its talking about the third eye or the mind...

Also, Jesus is man and God
We are man with spirit, spirit is God, We are man and God
Jesus showed us that we all have the potential to be just like him
He showed us the way, the truth and how to achieve life in heaven, by denying temptation of the Carmel pleasures this world offers deny them and you will be set free from this worlds prison... but take it from me it's a narrow road but not an easy one. When I fasted I realized how much food had a grip on me, so I started to eat to live not live to eat.

God sees your pain... he doesn't want you to trade one pain for the other, but he admires your tenacity...
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Look man, you seem like a very nice person but ...---there's no nice way to say this -- ....you're so full of crap!

I really wish you could pay attention for five minutes, and make it worth my while to post all of these things.

I'm begging you, please, for your own sake, ---It doesn't affect me one way or the other if you don't ---....but please, for your own sake, listen to any sermon at this link right here. I hope God will save you:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....urrSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Don^Fortner
 
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wonkavision said:
That's it. Run away from the truth! Run as fast as you can, but the hounds of hell are after you!

I pray to God that he will not let you rest until you find yourself safe in his Son, Jesus Christ.
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Omg...this was like the best lol I have had for a while man, thanks!
BTW - I am baptized too...but you never ask anything about what I believe - you just want to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong and damned.
I am not running, and especially not from the truth - that is fucking stupid (based on your incomplete image and judgement of me).
Running from any truth? - I think you are more afraid that truth can be found in other places besides the Bible - but you would never admit that.
I think you live a life of fear, and are deathly afraid of dying (pardon the pun) because deep down you are unsure if you are in that “saved” group or not.
But then again if you are so sure, Pride is a deadly sin you know.
I for one look forward to the day I get to leave this earthly body behind (as I have before) and I do not fear damnation or that I will be damned.
You can’t see into my heart, only God can do that - therefore you cannot judge it - hence the “shut up”.
Again with the passive aggressive threats...you should maybe try and address that.
 
I wish I had more time to engage in this conversation, maybe this weekend I'll be able too. For now, I do have a question @wonkavision

If God elects those He will save and gives them faith and makes them believers, what is the purpose of informing others about it? Do the people that are not or will not be saved have any options or responsibilities once they acquire the information that they are going to hell?
 
wonkavision said:
Look man, you seem like a very nice person but ...---there's no nice way to say this -- ....you're so full of crap!
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Another one bites the dust as the conversation devolves into name calling by Captain Christ.
(and yes, I do see the irony of calling you a name...lol)
 
wonkavision said:
Look man, you seem like a very nice person but ...---there's no nice way to say this -- ....you're so full of crap!

I really wish you could pay attention for five minutes, and make it worth my while to post all of these things.

I'm begging you, please, for your own sake, ---It doesn't affect me one way or the other if you don't ---....but please, for your own sake, listen to any sermon at this link right here. I hope God will save you:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?...true...sermonsspeaker...Don^Fortner
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well I'm sorry too... you see when I was a younger man I argued your position, so I understand it and it was at that time I realized I was full of shit... going back to that position would be regression in my position, but thanks for the discussion. I appreciate all the hard work in posting and I feel I know you now, so I got something out of it. So, don't feel to bad. Maybe when you get so depressed about your position the you hit rock bottom you can come chat with us, but with an unfettered mind.

cheers
 
Skarekrow said:
Another one bites the dust as the conversation devolves into name calling by Captain Christ.
(and yes, I do see the irony of calling you a name...lol)
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Debating is conflict by nature... the when it starts to dissolve, just walk away, but man what challenge, off to a new subject. People who start calling names realize that they have lost and get emotional believing this is a win lose situation. So instead of moving on to their next point to argue they try to distract you. He seems like a nice enough fellow and seems intent on saving you from the "fire". To quote Good Will Hunting :

"I don't give a shit about all that, because you know what, I can't learn anything from you, I can't read in some fuckin' book. Unless you want to talk about you ..."

I learned about him i'm done now.
 
Milktoast Bandit said:
I wish I had more time to engage in this conversation, maybe this weekend I'll be able too. For now, I do have a question @wonkavision

If God elects those He will save and gives them faith and makes them believers, what is the purpose of informing others about it?
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Preaching the word is God's ordained instrument under which he gives faith to sinners.

Look at this:

Romans 10:13-17

13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."



1 Corinthians 1:18-21

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."



Do the people that are not or will not be saved have any options or responsibilities once they acquire the information that they are going to hell?
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Nobody acquires the information that they are going to hell. The Bible declares that whoever dies without faith in Christ is going to hell. So, as long as they're still alive, there is still hope that God might save them under the preaching of the gospel.

It is the responsibility of all of us to believe what God says in his word. But because all of us are natural born sinners, we will not believe unless God gives us faith.
 
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acd said:
You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth. I wonder if you really understand what you are saying, or if it's just memorized. Because this statement is completely contradictory.
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It's not contradictory. Both things are true: That you must put your faith in Christ, and yet you will not put your faith in Christ unless and until God is pleased to give you faith in Christ.

The point is to drive you to seek his mercy. As long as you think you can choose to be saved whenever you feel like it, you have not submitted to Christ, and you have not trusted in Christ.

To trust in Christ is to confess that apart from his mercy and grace, you can not be saved. That it's all up to him and not you. And then, it's to trust that he saves all those who come to him.

He said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." --John 6:37

But he also said this:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." -- John 6:44

So, is Christ contradicting himself? Not at all.

You must believe, but you can't and won't believe, unless God gives you the faith to believe.


You see, the problem is not that it doesn't make sense. It's that so many people have been deceived into thinking that their will is free to decide whether or not they will "let Jesus be their Savior."

The truth is that no one will come to Christ unless they are drawn by the power of God. And if God gives them faith, then they will come to him, by faith, and they will receive eternal life.
 
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Emanuel Goldstein said:
well I'm sorry too... you see when I was a younger man I argued your position, so I understand it and it was at that time I realized I was full of shit... going back to that position would be regression in my position, but thanks for the discussion. I appreciate all the hard work in posting and I feel I know you now, so I got something out of it. So, don't feel to bad. Maybe when you get so depressed about your position the you hit rock bottom you can come chat with us, but with an unfettered mind.

cheers
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I seriously doubt that you ever argued this same position that I'm arguing. There are so few people, relatively speaking, in this world, who ever believe what I am preaching.

Almost everyone who claims to be a "Christian" believes in free will, and believes that salvation is at least in some part a result of their works, their efforts, their wisdom, and not a free gift.
 
wonkavision said:
Preaching the word is God's ordained instrument under which he gives faith to sinners.

Look at this:

Romans 10:13-17

13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!

16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."



1 Corinthians 1:18-21

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."





Nobody acquires the information that they are going to hell. The Bible declares that whoever dies without faith in Christ is going to hell. So, as long as they're still alive, there is still hope that God might save them under the preaching of the gospel.

It is the responsibility of all of us to believe what God says in his word. But because all of us are natural born sinners, we will not believe unless God gives us faith.
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wonkavision said:
It's not contradictory. Both things are true: That you must put your faith in Christ, and yet you will not put your faith in Christ unless and until God is pleased to give you faith in Christ.

The point is to drive you to seek his mercy. As long as you think you can choose to be saved whenever you feel like it, you have not submitted to Christ, and you have not trusted in Christ.

To trust in Christ is to confess that apart from his mercy and grace, you can not be saved. That it's all up to him and not you. And then, it's to trust that he saves all those who come to him.

He said, “All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." --John 6:37

But he also said this:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." -- John 6:44

So, is Christ contradicting himself? Not at all.

You must believe, but you can't and won't believe, unless God gives you the faith to believe.


You see, the problem is not that it doesn't make sense. It's that so many people have been deceived into thinking that their will is free to decide whether or not they will "let Jesus be their Savior."

The truth is that no one will come to Christ unless they are drawn by the power of God. And if God gives them faith, then they will come to him, by faith, and they will receive eternal life.
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Cool... so wait out everyone... might as well go on a tear,because we have no responsibilities, sin all you want and when God calls out your lottery ticket number. You Win...
 
wonkavision said:
I seriously doubt that you ever argued this same position that I'm arguing. There are so few people, relatively speaking, in this world, who ever believe what I am preaching.

Almost everyone who claims to be a "Christian" believes in free will, and believes that salvation is at least in some part a result of their works, their efforts, their wisdom, and not a free gift.
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Umm I'm pretty sure there is one other guy who believes it... used to be an archangel called him the mourning star...
 
Emanuel Goldstein said:
Cool... so wait out everyone... might as well go on a tear,because we have no responsibilities, sin all you want and when God calls out your lottery ticket number. You Win...
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What on earth are you talking about? I never said that. Why else would I preach this with such urgency?

I've warned you all countless times to seek the Lord's mercy right now!
 
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