“Over”thinking

Overthinking as a spectator sport can be amusing as well as frustrating. For example: never give a toddler a choice! Especially the adult sort of toddler 🤣
 
Life's full of dilemmas isn't it? Suppose I offered someone $1,000 which they could walk away with and keep. But then told them if they tossed a coin twice and it came down heads each time I'd give them $1 Million instead, but otherwise they'd lose the $1,000. Then gave them three months to make up their mind whether to play the game or not. I suspect there'd be quite a lot of pretty useless thinking generated over the next few weeks.

A lot of life presents us with similar dilemmas, though not so obvious and simple. Big life decisions are often at the heart of it - I was offered voluntary early retirement at the age of 51 for example and it took me several weeks to make up my mind one way or another because there were complex advantages and disadvantages either way, plus a lot of emotional investment. I have no doubt that I over-thought (and -felt) it prodigiously, mainly because the open position was more comfortable for me than either of the accepted options. In the end I decided to stay on at that time.
 
Maybe overthinking is partly an aversion to future regret. That's to say, a reluctance to make the wrong decision in light of having to deal with the decision later on.

This would be a self reinforcing paralysis to make decisions, because the more reluctant one is to make any decision, the greater the finality of every decision. This paralyses all decisions, because if you choose poorly, the subsequent course correction decisions can't be relied upon, because of the bad habit of slow decision making.

Prompt, responsive decision making, on the other hand, reduces the significance, or weight, of each decision, because any misstep can easily be corrected. This is related to the sunk cost fallacy.

Over-investing in decision making leaves one open to the sentiments which give rise to the sunk cost fallacy. It's an irrational position, which considers the past investment in a thing, rather than the present value, or a realistic future yield. It can lead to people wasting resources in an attempt to salvage wasted resources. For example, some people will spend large amounts of money to fix a car which used to be expensive, even though it is presently worth very little. The reasonable approach would be to sell the car, and take the proceeds, together with the anticipated repair costs, and buy a reliable vehicle.

Overthinking over-invests decisions with emotional weight, leading to future poor decisions based on the emotional significance of the original decision. At some point, the emotional baggage must be treated as a sunk (lost) investment, and future decisions should be made with as little emotional weight as is fitting.
 
Matty said:
Overthinking over-invests decisions with emotional weight, leading to future poor decisions based on the emotional significance of the original decision. At some point, the emotional baggage must be treated as a sunk (lost) investment, and future decisions should be made with as little emotional weight as is fitting.
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Louder for the people in the back, as @aeon would say
 
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Matty said:
Maybe overthinking is partly an aversion to future regret. That's to say, a reluctance to make the wrong decision in light of having to deal with the decision later on.
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That could be. Although, but it doesn’t have to be something one has to personally deal with later. It can also be in part to avoiding harming others, making others have to deal with the consequences of decisions that were not well thought out.

Of course, there does come a point where inaction can cause more harm. Or, quick action can cause the worst outcomes. Maybe just thinking about it longer would allow alternative options to emerge, but it is not always clear as there isn’t always enough time to put off a decision.

I remember one time I discovered a larger error at work and brought it to the attention of my boss. It was not an error that I made, but stumbled on. Something very important was just flat out wrong and the error could’ve very well have negatively affected other people. My boss was one who made very quick decisions. When I mentioned this I was at first dismissed, like I was a nuisance. I didn’t give up though. I put together a more solid logical argument and presented it again. I was told I was overthinking. I pressed on until she thought about it longer and realized that there was an error and went on to correct it.

My boss never thanked me or apologized for not listening, but this has happened to me many times over the years with different people. I tend to think about things until I understand it on a very deep level. Not everything, but things I am passionate about.People in my life often confuse this for a lack of taking action. This is what I mostly mean by “overthinking”. What may be “overthinking “ may be a way some of us serve a purpose in life. I view this as a strength.

I have done a horrible job of presenting this in the op( I should’ve thought about it longer lol), but I been wondering if many of you all out there in cyberspace have had similar interactions or issues that arise by being contemplatives.

Thank you for your response Matt because it helped me understand what point I have been trying to make.
 
ThomasJ79 said:
My boss never thanked me or apologized for not listening, but this has happened to me many times over the years with different people. I tend to think about things until I understand it on a very deep level. Not everything, but things I am passionate about.People in my life often confuse this for a lack of taking action. This is what I mostly mean by “overthinking”. What may be “overthinking “ may be a way some of us serve a purpose in life. I view this as a strength.
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This is very relatable. I have often felt at work that I'm "being kept busy" or "too busy to think" and unable to focus on some issue as a result. I think it's understandable why it's thankless. At least in my role, everyone is always laser-focused on building and new production such that the maintenance or "keeping the lights on" infrastructure stuff, while extremely important, is seen as more of a nuisance. Building new skyscrapers is a lot more sexy than repairing existing bridges, but then people are often quick to point fingers when something collapses. There is absolutely some value in Premeditatio Malorum.

For myself, I tend to overthink and plot and plan to the detriment of actual execution in all facets of life. One thing I've been trying to be better at is not letting perfect be the enemy of good. I've been a little bit better at catching myself and a new mantra of mine recently has been "Stop. Go." Meaning stop thinking and begin [insert thing here]. This has somewhat helped a procrastination problem I've suffered with probably all of my life. I've just begun reading a pretty good book right now called "Four Thousand Weeks - Time Management for Mortals" which kind of turns productivity on its head. So I've been thinking a lot about how I've been spending my time, much of which I realize has been spent in unhelpful overthinking or catastrophizing various things.

Meditation helps too, but the aim there is to catch thoughts and feelings as they happen. Funnily enough, unless I feel a need to sneeze or a flash of annoyance at some distraction or something, it's hardly ever feelings and almost always thoughts that I'm observing. Being able to see them and step back from them has been valuable though.
 
ThomasJ79 said:
I been wondering if many of you all out there in cyberspace have had similar interactions or issues that arise by being contemplatives.
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Absolutely. Sorta a cornerstone of my existence dontcha know.
 
HeavyNeuralPayload said:
pretty good book right now called "Four Thousand Weeks - Time Management for Mortals" which kind of turns productivity on its head
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Can you elaborate on anything learned?
 
Wyote said:
Can you elaborate on anything learned?
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Still probably too early to say. I'm only 35 pages in, but some of the praise from other authors drew my attention to it. One gem from the bit I was able to read this morning that struck a chord:

"So long as you continue to respond to impossible demands on your time by trying to persuade yourself that you might one day find some way to do the impossible, you're implicitly collaborating with those demands. Whereas once you deeply grasp that they are impossible, you'll be newly empowered to resist them, and to focus instead on building the most meaningful life you can, in whatever situation you're in."

It seems like it's aiming less at specific time-management strategies and instead pushing for taking a more detailed look at the things that consume time, determining why they may be important, and I reckon there will be more about cutting away those that aren't. Not sure if just an INFJ thing, but I have always struggled with "letting go" - things, tasks, relationships. I'm curious about where this is going. I doubt the author's going to spend the next 220 pages saying "yeah let go of all that stuff and just be happy and free."

More to come.
 
My best time-management and procrastination strategy is ~475 ml of moka pot coffee used to wash down 60 mg of dextroamphetamine sulfate.

Cheers,
Ian
 
HeavyNeuralPayload said:
More to come.
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Thanks
Sam Elliott Hello GIF by GritTV
 
aeon said:
~475 ml of moka pot coffee
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Funny! I just got into moka pot coffee a few months ago. I've drank plain "Maxwell House medium" black coffee - no cream/sugar - for the past 9 years or so. Prior to that I was fat and basically drinking caffeinated liquid candy bars on my commute to work. But more recently I've begun to lose the taste for it, or it always felt watered down or unappetizing. I tried a few different brands and nearly gave up, but we ended up getting a moka pot back around November and that kind of hit the right note. I don't drink it every day, and learned [the difficult way] that a little goes a long way. :grimacing:

Now I kind of dance around between regular coffee, moka pot coffee ,yerba mate, or just taking a 200mg caffeine pill and drinking water. It's weird because I generally prefer a rigid morning routine and not having to make decisions when I'm bleary-eyed and uncaffeinated. But this one has stuck.

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ThomasJ79 said:
I been wondering if many of you all out there in cyberspace have had similar interactions or issues that arise by being contemplatives.
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I’ve had many of the same sort of experience over my lifetime. It’s maybe useful to pull apart the threads of the situation you describe with your boss. On the one hand there is the suggestion that you are over-thinking, implying a dysfunctional analysis. The fact that you were correct in your analysis proves that on the contrary you were spot-on.

When this happened to me I came to realise that what was wrong was not my thinking process but the way I presented my conclusions and recommendations. We Ni folks (and our friendly Ti types) are prone to misjudge how to present a case to other types. Almost always it’s wrong to express it along the lines you used to reach your conclusion.

I’m assuming here you are dealing with an important work related issue with significant consequences.

Think of the presentation as a problem in its own right, and try and tune it to the personality of the recipient. Many managers prefer a clear summary statement of purpose and problem - a pithy set of bullet points here. A small set of bullet points expressing your analysis and conclusions. Then a pithy recommendation.

Do have all the details ready to hand in writing in case the recipient wants to dive into them. Put them into writing even if you are going to express them verbally because it forces you to express them well.

In fact it’s often better to do this sort of thing in a report and then offer a presentation or a chat if asked. Keep your purpose, conclusions and recommendations short and sweet, and put all your thinking and justification into an appendix if they want to look at it. You can tune this up according to whether you are trying to persuade T or F types.

After a while it becomes second nature, and you can do it even in informal or social situations without sounding formulaic. It works particularly well with STJ types who judge the validly of of a case often by its succinct logical credibility.
 
HeavyNeuralPayload said:
Funny! I just got into moka pot coffee a few months ago. I've drank plain "Maxwell House medium" black coffee - no cream/sugar - for the past 9 years or so. Prior to that I was fat and basically drinking caffeinated liquid candy bars on my commute to work. But more recently I've begun to lose the taste for it, or it always felt watered down or unappetizing. I tried a few different brands and nearly gave up, but we ended up getting a moka pot back around November and that kind of hit the right note. I don't drink it every day, and learned [the difficult way] that a little goes a long way. :grimacing:

Now I kind of dance around between regular coffee, moka pot coffee ,yerba mate, or just taking a 200mg caffeine pill and drinking water. It's weird because I generally prefer a rigid morning routine and not having to make decisions when I'm bleary-eyed and uncaffeinated. But this one has stuck.

</endtangent>
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I like strong, unfiltered coffee with high extraction that is sparkly and fruity-floral (light roast), complex and balanced (medium roast), and bold and bodied (dark roast). I like the presence of bean oils because of the velvety texture they give. I like many Arabica cultivars and heirloom landraces.

Ethiopian for the light roast, Peruvian and Colombian for the medium roast, and Sumatran for the dark roast is a general guide. I like washed, honey process, naturals, as well as anaerobic fermentation beans.

I am a flavor chaser, but as someone Dx’d with ADHD, I will fully acknowledge that the caffeine is also greatly enjoyed.

I have one moka pot in a day, because if I have more, it will put me to sleep.

Also, coffee with cream, aside from being lovely, is also diabetic friendly. No milk or half-and-half...it must be zero-carb heavy cream.

I use a Giannina by Giannini. My moka is the 9-cup size, and at 475 ml out, requires ~47 grams of beans to achieve a 1:10 ratio of coffee to water.

I became a coffee nerd. And perhaps a snob. There’s worse fates! 😇

Cheers,
Ian
 
I cant watch movies with people, i know whats going to happen and i seem to point out plot holes in the movie. But im not telling other people that purposely trying to ruin their evening, i talk to myself in a quiet tone what im thinking and they seem to hear it. In board games, i seem to know what people around me will do before they do it. So overthinking has its advantages... and disadvantages.
 
John K said:
judge the validly of of a case often by its succinct logical credibility.
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I should add that it’s important to use precedence to support what you are saying too if you can. Intuitive types don’t realise just how important this is in getting the support of S types, particularly those with Si in their MBTI stack. If you can refer to similar situations in a way that validates your ideas then you are well in the way to getting acceptance from these types.

A lot of people relate well to information expressed in images too if you are good at putting it into that sort of shape. It really helps get across a complex idea quickly and easily.
 
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