Playing the Role of the Counselor and Emotional Use

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Neuropedia

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I get really frustrated fitting the part of "the counselor". Its confusing, I can never tell when I am being used or not.

The thing is, I know that when people are upset, they're going to call me. Because that's what I'm good at. I wouldn't hold it against a person for calling their friend who is a mechanic over their best friend if their car broke down in the middle of the night. And honestly, I like working out people's psyches. It's what challenges me, what I'm best at, what I'm naturally inclined to do.

What bothers me when my sole communication with a person becomes sorting out their problems. This has happened to me so many times. It starts out with someone your kind of friends with, and they have a problem and you're like... OH! I know exactly how to resolve this. So you talk things out with them and patch up their mind and send them on their way. They feel better about life and you feel fulfilled, and you feel like you have a way deeper relationship with the person after this intimacy. It's a win win situation.

But then they come back every single time, they pour their heart out, make you feel like you're their best friend, say you're their best friend and then when you've fixed them up they don't come back until they need you again. You shrug it off at first, but then you notice them ignoring you in favour of their other friends, and coming back to you apologizing and asking for support when their other friends hurt them. The first time you shrug it off but then it happens over and over again with the same people, and you really begin to wonder what you mean to this person.

You can't tell if their using you - people do connect most intimately when we are the most vulnerable. But seeing them completely disregard you after you stayed up with them on the phone all night before a midterm is really crushing. And when you have a problem they will ignore it. But maybe that's because they are mere non-INFJ mortals who can't recognize the things you can. It feels like they know how to manipulate your heart into becoming soft and malleable towards them... are they aware that they are manipulating you? consciously? Subconsciously? But maybe their just using bitches. It does really resemble the typical cycle of abuse you saw in your social work class. This would be so much easier to discern if your skills were as a mechanic, and not as a counselor.

The irony of my entire social history is that the people I have had the deepest connections with were the people who used me the most.



Is this a normal INFJ experience or am I just a pushover?
can we have healthy, intimate relationships with people without being used emotionally?
am I irrevocably broken?
 
Oh dear. I'm afraid this is probably a regular experience for us INFJ's. Many of my so called friends tend only to crop up when there is some drama going on in their life that they need to have resolved. I don't take the role of counselor lightly and will always do my best to help someone out.

I think these people consider us best friends because they KNOW that they can be vulnerable to us and entrust us with their innermost feelings and issues. Yes, they might spend more time with other people but I highly doubt that they're sharing that much of themselves with them.

I think the problem occurs when we are not getting anything out of that friendship. If we're spending all of our mental and emotional resources to help someone, then it can be hard to see how the friendship is functioning equally. Then again, most of us INFJ's are naturally inclined to be helpful and usually know the right things to say and how to swiftly set people right...

I don't think they have any idea they're being manipulative. In fact, they may not even be aware of what goes on inside you while you're helping them. We're really bad at sharing OUR innermost thoughts and feelings with people and tend to always let others overshadow it in order to help them. So we play a big part in being used as well.

I find that I don't mind helping people out. I like to make people feel better. It makes me feel good knowing that I've helped someone sort out some really sordid issues and got them back on the right path. Do I sometimes feel resentment because they can't do the same for me? Do I feel sad that I have a hard time finding ANYone who can take on that INFJ counselor role and help me? Yeah, sometimes I do. But that's why the forums are here :)

If you start to sense that someone is using you perhaps you can try to have conversations with them when they're not coming to you with issues... Communicate with them in between their meltdowns. It'll show you how a person truly perceives you and whether they're willing to have a friendship with you outside of therapy sessions.
 
:hug:

Goodness, I know exactly how you feel.

And no, it's not just you. I have had way more than my fair share of those types of friendships. I'm pretty sure others, especially here, would say the same.

And it is possible to have close relationships with people without feeling used. You just have to tactically communicate to that person about your feelings, and if they don't want to do anything about it, continue to use you emotionally, then they are NOT worth your energy
 
sandra_b said:
Oh dear. I'm afraid this is probably a regular experience for us INFJ's. Many of my so called friends tend only to crop up when there is some drama going on in their life that they need to have resolved. I don't take the role of counselor lightly and will always do my best to help someone out.

I think these people consider us best friends because they KNOW that they can be vulnerable to us and entrust us with their innermost feelings and issues. Yes, they might spend more time with other people but I highly doubt that they're sharing that much of themselves with them.

I think the problem occurs when we are not getting anything out of that friendship. If we're spending all of our mental and emotional resources to help someone, then it can be hard to see how the friendship is functioning equally. Then again, most of us INFJ's are naturally inclined to be helpful and usually know the right things to say and how to swiftly set people right...

I don't think they have any idea they're being manipulative. In fact, they may not even be aware of what goes on inside you while you're helping them. We're really bad at sharing OUR innermost thoughts and feelings with people and tend to always let others overshadow it in order to help them. So we play a big part in being used as well.

I find that I don't mind helping people out. I like to make people feel better. It makes me feel good knowing that I've helped someone sort out some really sordid issues and got them back on the right path. Do I sometimes feel resentment because they can't do the same for me? Do I feel sad that I have a hard time finding ANYone who can take on that INFJ counselor role and help me? Yeah, sometimes I do. But that's why the forums are here :)

If you start to sense that someone is using you perhaps you can try to have conversations with them when they're not coming to you with issues... Communicate with them in between their meltdowns. It'll show you how a person truly perceives you and whether they're willing to have a friendship with you outside of therapy sessions.
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+1
 
Neuropedia said:
I get really frustrated fitting the part of "the counselor". Its confusing, I can never tell when I am being used or not.

The thing is, I know that when people are upset, they're going to call me. Because that's what I'm good at. I wouldn't hold it against a person for calling their friend who is a mechanic over their best friend if their car broke down in the middle of the night. And honestly, I like working out people's psyches. It's what challenges me, what I'm best at, what I'm naturally inclined to do.

What bothers me when my sole communication with a person becomes sorting out their problems. This has happened to me so many times. It starts out with someone your kind of friends with, and they have a problem and you're like... OH! I know exactly how to resolve this. So you talk things out with them and patch up their mind and send them on their way. They feel better about life and you feel fulfilled, and you feel like you have a way deeper relationship with the person after this intimacy. It's a win win situation.

But then they come back every single time, they pour their heart out, make you feel like you're their best friend, say you're their best friend and then when you've fixed them up they don't come back until they need you again. You shrug it off at first, but then you notice them ignoring you in favour of their other friends, and coming back to you apologizing and asking for support when their other friends hurt them. The first time you shrug it off but then it happens over and over again with the same people, and you really begin to wonder what you mean to this person.

You can't tell if their using you - people do connect most intimately when we are the most vulnerable. But seeing them completely disregard you after you stayed up with them on the phone all night before a midterm is really crushing. And when you have a problem they will ignore it. But maybe that's because they are mere non-INFJ mortals who can't recognize the things you can. It feels like they know how to manipulate your heart into becoming soft and malleable towards them... are they aware that they are manipulating you? consciously? Subconsciously? But maybe their just using bitches. It does really resemble the typical cycle of abuse you saw in your social work class. This would be so much easier to discern if your skills were as a mechanic, and not as a counselor.

The irony of my entire social history is that the people I have had the deepest connections with were the people who used me the most.



Is this a normal INFJ experience or am I just a pushover?
can we have healthy, intimate relationships with people without being used emotionally?
am I irrevocably broken?
Click to expand...
YOU ARE NOT ALONE, I REPEAT: YOU ARE NOT ALONE!!!!!!!

I've gotten so worried about peoples' problems even though they really don't give 2 sh*ts about me. And with their problems and treating me pretty badly :m192:

It hurts so much, and I personally feel your pain. If you ever need to chat about it, please PM me and that goes for anyone reading this post.
 
I have to admit.. I've been guilty of treating people similar to the way you say you are being treated. The thing is, I never thought I was using the person.. I really considered them a friend and valued them immensely.

So, I don't think people are doing this to you intentionally. I was going through a particularly bad time when I really leaned on the shoulder of a friend... After a week of me being totally.... emotionally needy the best advice she ever gave me was: "You need a hobby." And she taught me how to knit.. So instead of sobbing and whining to her about how my life was falling apart at that time, I was engaged in an activity with her that was actually very therapeutic. Sometimes you have to be a little tough with people to get them to stand on their own. I got the point that she was mentally exhausted when she said, "You need a hobby" and I still felt like she cared enough to help by teaching me a craft to ease my mind.

Suggest that your friend work on solving these problems on their own by telling them you think they're smart enough and strong enough to do so. Give advice that empowers the person to help themselves, and don't be afraid to let them know that you feel you're giving more than they are putting into the relationship. There are ways to do this without being insulting... but don't be a pushover.

Though I've been the needy friend, I've also been the Counselor..
It's important to distinguish between helping and enabling. I won't listen to someone go on and on for weeks about a problem if they are unwilling to help themselves. It does neither person any good. So I offer resources for the person to look into or ideas for them to consider.. and if they are unsatisfied with those things and still want to complain about how much they hate themselves and have X amount of mental health illnesses-- if they are unwilling to take the first step by getting help for themselves then I feel I have no choice but to distance myself from them a little.
 
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acd said:
Though I've been the needy friend, I've also been the Counselor..
It's important to distinguish between helping and enabling. I won't listen to someone go on and on for weeks about a problem if they are unwilling to help themselves. It does neither person any good. So I offer resources for the person to look into or ideas for them to consider.. and if they are unsatisfied with those things and still want to complain about how much they hate themselves and have X amount of mental health illnesses-- if they are unwilling to take the first step by getting help for themselves then I feel I have no choice but to distance myself from them a little.
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+1 a thousand times over. This is EXTREMELY important to remember.
 
Sometimes these friends can forget that communication is, as cliched as it sounds, a two-way street in the context of relationships. Be willing to set your boundaries if you find yourself getting exhausted or otherwise getting nothing in return for the time you spend helping others to patch things up.

To clarify, it's not as if they owe you any favors or anything, but don't shy away from letting a needy friend know that they seem to disappear whenever there isn't any drama going on, and that it does give a noticeable undertone to the friendship.
 
I've always liked being the counselor but it rarely happens. I think it's more of a guy thing because many of my friends are guys and they don't want to talk about their feelings all the time. I guess my mom utilizes me as a counselor sometimes and I like it. Hearing about people's problems and then helping them is gratifying for me.

I also really haven't been super close to any one person in my life, besides my family. In high school, I went through a few different groups of friends. Maybe I just have issues.
 
bickelz said:
I've always liked being the counselor but it rarely happens. I think it's more of a guy thing because many of my friends are guys and they don't want to talk about their feelings all the time. I guess my mom utilizes me as a counselor sometimes and I like it. Hearing about people's problems and then helping them is gratifying for me.

I also really haven't been super close to any one person in my life, besides my family. In high school, I went through a few different groups of friends. Maybe I just have issues.
Click to expand...

I'm going through the different friends myself and I don't really know where I belong.
High school is crazy and confusing @.@
Please tell me college gets better.
 
daydreamer said:
I'm going through the different friends myself and I don't really know where I belong.
High school is crazy and confusing @.@
Please tell me college gets better.
Click to expand...
college gets better :)

I like to be the counselor myself. I feel like its my niche
 
Most people will abuse the right to vent at the people who will listen. It's not just an INFJ issue - my sister (ENFP) put up with a guy whining at her for a long, long time, until she finally snapped after about two weeks and told him to stop it.

I listen to my sister's problems, but never really my friends. One is so open, she tells everyone everything, the other won't tell anyone. Actually, my best friend does tell me his problems sometimes, but he never overdoes it.
 
Neuropedia said:
I get really frustrated fitting the part of "the counselor". Its confusing, I can never tell when I am being used or not.

The thing is, I know that when people are upset, they're going to call me. Because that's what I'm good at. I wouldn't hold it against a person for calling their friend who is a mechanic over their best friend if their car broke down in the middle of the night. And honestly, I like working out people's psyches. It's what challenges me, what I'm best at, what I'm naturally inclined to do.

What bothers me when my sole communication with a person becomes sorting out their problems. This has happened to me so many times. It starts out with someone your kind of friends with, and they have a problem and you're like... OH! I know exactly how to resolve this. So you talk things out with them and patch up their mind and send them on their way. They feel better about life and you feel fulfilled, and you feel like you have a way deeper relationship with the person after this intimacy. It's a win win situation.

But then they come back every single time, they pour their heart out, make you feel like you're their best friend, say you're their best friend and then when you've fixed them up they don't come back until they need you again. You shrug it off at first, but then you notice them ignoring you in favour of their other friends, and coming back to you apologizing and asking for support when their other friends hurt them. The first time you shrug it off but then it happens over and over again with the same people, and you really begin to wonder what you mean to this person.

You can't tell if their using you - people do connect most intimately when we are the most vulnerable. But seeing them completely disregard you after you stayed up with them on the phone all night before a midterm is really crushing. And when you have a problem they will ignore it. But maybe that's because they are mere non-INFJ mortals who can't recognize the things you can. It feels like they know how to manipulate your heart into becoming soft and malleable towards them... are they aware that they are manipulating you? consciously? Subconsciously? But maybe their just using bitches. It does really resemble the typical cycle of abuse you saw in your social work class. This would be so much easier to discern if your skills were as a mechanic, and not as a counselor.

The irony of my entire social history is that the people I have had the deepest connections with were the people who used me the most.



Is this a normal INFJ experience or am I just a pushover?
can we have healthy, intimate relationships with people without being used emotionally?
am I irrevocably broken?
Click to expand...

First of all, you are certainly not irrevocably broken.

This problem is not, in my opinion, exclusive for INFJs in any way, though I suspect that many of INFJs will feel like you do at some point, I know I have.

Several people here mentioned setting healthy boundaries, and I think that acd was the one talking about enabling as a part of the problem in this situations. This is extremely important. Think how far are you willing to go with someone while being his/hers counsellor. Other than that, try to be as honest possible while answering these questions: Why do you assume such role? Is it because of them entirely or is there something for you? Do you get impatient with people who seem unable to find the solution to their own problem when you see it so clearly?

My experience is that people value more when you don't solve their problems for them but help them solve them themselves. Handing them a solution on a silver plater, and especially doing it constantly puts those people in an inferior position and will eventually drift them away from you. If you help them with carefully chosen questions, you show that you do listen carefully what they have to say, that you do want to help, and that you value their way of doing things no matter how slow or different it is than your way.
 
I think even though naturally INFJs are counselors; the method in which we choose to give advice can differ and make a difference on whether we feel used or not. Being empathic is a great way to build rapport and just listen; which is about 80% of the cases. However, personally I am always confronted with the question whether the person is really ready to hear blunt, truthful advice or just want to whine and be listened to. I usually determine this while conversing and counseling. The people that are closest to me; I don't hold back. I say the advice I feel that they can use; but their receptivity to is another matter. After all the listening and understanding I give blunt advice and I would honestly say 80% of them do not take the advice or get offended and just want to be coddled more.

Personally I always stand behind my advice and I would repeat it if the person keeps coming back for more counseling. I do not feel used or drained by this because I can dissociate myself from their emotions so they don't take me on a roller coaster of their emotions. This aspect of INFJ trait has been called "cold" or distant; but i tend to see it as intellectual empathy. Naturally I use my analytical empathic reasoning more than being sucked of my empathy by emotional vampires. In the past being too empathic made me sick, lethargic, depressed for no reason. I never let it get this far anymore and I am happier for it.:mhula:
 
daydreamer said:
I'm going through the different friends myself and I don't really know where I belong.
High school is crazy and confusing @.@
Please tell me college gets better.
Click to expand...

In many senses college does get better but I still don't know exactly where I belong. College is crazy and confusing too.

If you want the high school drama to be over, well I'll give you some insight. It never ends. Nobody grows out of it or becomes truly more mature.

My dad's side of the family is a good example of high school drama and the youngest person is in their mid fifties.

You learn a lot more in college and are able to experience different things. My advice, make friends with people who want to experience a lot with you.
 
Neuropedia said:
What bothers me when my sole communication with a person becomes sorting out their problems.
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AMEN. I think I've seen more people shed tears in front of me than laugh at a joke. I love helping people, but I want something in return (and don't just try to counsel me back, you suck at it, and I don't need it).
I want a real relationship. I haven't had a real friend since 5th grade, and that was only because we were both obsessed with Pokemon.
I'm glad to hear college gets better, but in the meantime, life shouldn't be like this.
 
I worry when I hear talk of being a counselor for friends. It speaks to me of taking on a role that is not really compatible with friendship. Friendships are not primarily about helping, they are about sharing, and through that mutual sharing, experiencing intimacy. Sometimes the intimacy of friendship means supporting someone while they are struggling, but the nature of sharing means that it would not be one-sided.

If a friendship develops around someone seeking what you provide in terms of emotional support, but that is where the relationship ends, I wouldn't categorize that as a friendship.

Generally people with healthy boundaries are not going to feel comfortable with that counselor/patient power dynamic in the context of a friendship. If you find yourself consistently in relationships that are unbalanced in this way, it might be worth exploring what you gain from these relationships, and whether you might be avoiding for some reason relationship with healthier dynamics.

Some people may feel uncomfortable with being vulnerable in relationship, but at the same time feel affirmed by having the gift to support someone else. If that internal dynamic is in play, a person might find themselves most comfortable with people in need of support who won't be likely to challenge them to be vulnerable in return.

It sounds like you are experiencing some degree of discomfort with this balance in your relationships. What have you done with these people to let them know your unmet need? Have you been willing to state directly what you need from them? Is it uncomfortable for you to say, "I am in need"?

You spoke in your OP about experiencing the intimacy involved in helping someone else, but I don't recall you speaking of the intimacy of sharing of your own vulnerabilities in the relationship. If you are not engaging intimately back, and containing your involvement to a position of counselor, then it would not be unexpected that either people will pick up on this dynamic and only seek you out when they are in need of counseling, or that you would draw people to you who, for whatever their reasons, seek out relationships where there is a consistent power dynamic of helper and helped.

If you do not want to continue this dynamic in your relationships, I think you will need to really examine to what degree you contain your involvement in relationships to a counseling position. If you are reluctant to be vulnerable in relationship, you are not likely to experience true intimacy and you may continue to encourage the dynamic of counselor and patient in those you connect with, as opposed to the friendship you seem to be seeking.

Whatever the reasons in play for this dynamic in your relationships, I can appreciate very much why you would be unhappy with it and I hope you find your way to more satisfying relationships.
 
Why do you think I give out sparse advice and act like a douche to most people? to keep the wanna bes and the drama queens away. Once I've decided you're who I want you to be, in accordance with the relationship I have envisioned I will be your best friend and counselor til the day you die. But before that? heh. good luck.*


*For understandings sake, I don't mean "oh ho ho my time is so valuable." But I want honesty and sincerity, I want to know that if I help you with your problems, you're going to be there to help me with mine. That don't happen in those kinds of relationships.
 
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