Police out of Control?

Hey!

That wasn't a rhetorical question!

Anyone wanna answer it?

The police....remember...the purpose of this thread....do you guys think they are self-contained or do you think the out-of-controllness is coming from higher up?

Could it be that the economy is out of control, the military is out of control, our government is out of control and by extention the police are out of control?
 
Hey!

That wasn't a rhetorical question!

Anyone wanna answer it?

The police....remember...the purpose of this thread....do you guys think they are self-contained or do you think the out-of-controllness is coming from higher up?

Could it be that the economy is out of control, the military is out of control, our government is out of control and by extention the police are out of control?

Yes of course by some definition or other.
 
What?

They're all out of control?

Well yes. I don't think they've ever been controlled.

It's all like a nuclear reaction. You only 'control' it with the fuel which is more like having a really nasty pitbull on a chain. Hope it doesn't get off.
 
Well yes. I don't think they've ever been controlled.

It's all like a nuclear reaction. You only 'control' it with the fuel which is more like having a really nasty pitbull on a chain. Hope it doesn't get off.

Ah...but i think they have deliberatly sabotaged the economy because they want to destroy the US as a viable state in order to create a new global government

The US is an obstacle to that which is why they want to disarm it, destroy the constitution and impoverish it (and all done from the inside!)
 
Ah...but i think they have deliberatly sabotaged the economy because they want to destroy the US as a viable state in order to create a new global government

The US is an obstacle to that which is why they want to disarm it, destroy the constitution and impoverish it (and all done from the inside!)

I've been hearing that sort of thing since I was a kid, and admittedly it is closer to happening now than it was then so it does leave me to wonder.
 
I've been hearing that sort of thing since I was a kid, and admittedly it is closer to happening now than it was then so it does leave me to wonder.

Well the historic evidence is there...they tried it after world war 1 with the League of Nations and then they tried it again after world war 2 with the UN and that attempt it still ongoing

They basically globalised all their pre-existing infrastructure for example they created a 'world bank' and the IMF

They essentially have everything in place...the UN is a prototype world government. They even have a currency in place in the IMF called 'special drawing rights'

As they periodically say they need the right crisis to use to justify to the public makeing the switch from national soveriegnty to global governance

The question is what crisis will they use? Will it be the collapse of the dollar itself or perhaps ebola or a new world war?

But the beefing up of the police and the training to make them more antagonistic towards the public is all in preparation for the coming 'crisis' when martial law will be declared (the boston bombing gave them a little practise at martial law and house to house searches and they are getting lots of SWAT team house busting practise in too)

The police are doing more and more 'stop and searches' and are pulling drivers over on spurious charges and basically harrassing them and its all because they are being told to by the chain of command.

They are even given workshops on how to give excuses for pulling drivers over
 
Did not watch the video.
What is the alternative to having cops?
What are solutions to monitoring them but still allowing them to do their clearly need job?

The alternative is you let the criminals and gangsters run the streets. Which has been the case in many major metro areas in the past. I am not against cops but i am not for police brutality. Police brutality has always existed; just now everyone has a cellphone camera and it gets caught.
 
The alternative is you let the criminals and gangsters run the streets. Which has been the case in many major metro areas in the past. I am not against cops but i am not for police brutality. Police brutality has always existed; just now everyone has a cellphone camera and it gets caught.

I'm not against cops even though I've seen it happen first hand. Several times I've seen cops smack people around and be entirely too rough for no good reason, when the situation is obviously under control. Some times it's just because some guy is drunk and has a mouth on him and they don't like it. Or they're just pissed off that they had to take the time to come out and get somebody at all.

Not all cops are bad, it depends on where you live. In many places they are great. In some places they're more bad than others. And we're not even talking about bending the rules a little to get at some hard to crack drug lord - there's no excuse when it's just some staggering middle aged dude with a limp who is hammered out of his mind and just happens to lose his balance and lean on one of the cops. Then they slap him in the face and rough him up. Seen it happen.
 
I'd just like to clarify if you're talking to me because I'd sooner leave than be, as so eloquently put it, "kicked off".

I dont see that this thread is achieving much in the way of discussion, its like a lot of similar threads which I see popping up across a lot of forums, perhaps that's the US zeitgheist of the moment but they are being posted by people who make some pretense of critical thinking and weather eye to topics as opposed to just being memetic transmitters of cliched opinions.
Hey I didn’t name names…I just said, don’t call names.
Children call names…not adults…if we all can’t debate without resorting to calling names then we shouldn’t debate at all.
 
Hey I didn’t name names…I just said, don’t call names.
Children call names…not adults…if we all can’t debate without resorting to calling names then we shouldn’t debate at all.

I'm not sure there's any consensus on what is debate and what isnt or, obviously, who can take part.

I mean did you mean for the thread to be for American citizens only? I didnt see you respond to that remark.
 
I'm not sure there's any consensus on what is debate and what isnt or, obviously, who can take part.

I mean did you mean for the thread to be for American citizens only? I didnt see you respond to that remark.
I don’t care who chimes in, just so long as we can act in a gentlemanly manner toward one another and others…if you want to sub-debate why you should or shouldn’t have an opinion here I’m not stopping you.
 
I'm not sure there's any consensus on what is debate and what isnt or, obviously, who can take part.

I mean did you mean for the thread to be for American citizens only? I didnt see you respond to that remark.

It has nothing to do with you being American or not. My gripe is with how you were acting like cops are the same everywhere and that you're somehow just as informed as the rest of us if not more.

I mean heck we don't hear about your Drumcree conflict over here but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm curious to know what you'd think if I started talking about that like I was there and know everything about it and it has anything to do with me just because I looked it up on Wikipedia.
 
I think that we all would like accountability yes? I mean this is what the whole argument boils down to right? So is anyone here against accountability?
 
The lights go out and the looting starts. Yes, we should be held accountable. Shots fired. Businesses set on fire. Resisting arrest. Someone dies. News media jumps all over the police. Parents say, "Not my boy. He is just a good, smart young man with his whole life in front of him." What has happened to our society? What about the people when they run loose? Out of control?
 
The lights go out and the looting starts. Yes, we should be held accountable. Shots fired. Businesses set on fire. Resisting arrest. Someone dies. News media jumps all over the police. Parents say, "Not my boy. He is just a good, smart young man with his whole life in front of him." What has happened to our society? What about the people when they run loose? Out of control?
I don’t think anyone here thinks that there aren’t criminals out there?
I am very grateful that the police are there, and I have called them on several occasions. They are not all bad cops, just like not all those people who marched in the demonstrations for Michael Brown looted.
Those that commit crimes and break laws and act in unprofessional manners should be held accountable cop or citizen.
The issue some of us see, is less and less accountability amongst the police.
Watch the video at the beginning of this thread where John Oliver talks about ‘civil forfeiture’ and brings to light some good criticisms that should be explored.
 
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liber...r-how-cops-avoid-accountability-criminal-acts

[h=1]Getting Away with Murder: How Cops Avoid Accountability for Criminal Acts[/h]
Thousands of chokehold complaints have been filed since NYC banned them in 1993.



October 8, 2014 |











On October 7, the New York City Civilian Complaint Review Board published a report that analyzes the use of chokeholds by NYPD officers over the past year. The report found that between July 2013 and June 2014, the CCRB received 219 chokehold complaints, the highest number seen since the period between 2006-2010 when over 200 chokehold complaints were being filed annually. This year, CCRB also received the highest relative level of chokehold complaints registered since 2001—7.6 out of every 100 use-of-force complaints were for chokeholds.
According to the NYPD Patrol Guide, the use of chokeholds against civilian suspects is illegal. This has been the case for more than 20 years.
A chokehold, as defined in the NYPD’s use-of-force policy, is “any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.” However, as the report points out, due to the NYPD and CCRB refusal to enforce the chokehold rule, the mandate was watered down. Instead of prohibiting officers from applying any pressure to the neck that “may” interfere with breathing, civilians hoping to register complaints must now be able to prove that the chokeholds they endured resulted in actual, sustained interference with breathing.
The report was commissioned this past July, following the death of 43-year-old Staten Island resident Eric Garner, whom NYPD officers placed in a chokehold while trying to book him for selling untaxed cigarettes. During the encounter, which was videotaped and went viral soon after, Garner shouted, “I can’t breathe” eleven times as officers continued to swarm around him. A medical examiner later confirmed that Garner’s death was a homicide—a direct result of being put in a chokehold.
NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton’s pandering reaction to Garner’s death was to announce that he’d be retraining the entire NYPD in acceptable use-of-force practices when engaging with a suspect. However, though shrugging off civilian complaints and letting officers off the hook is routine and systematic in New York City, the practice of administering chokeholds is limited to a group of abusive cops who perpetually dodge disciplinary action. The CCRB report found that half of the officers who had chokehold complaints filed against them have a history of six or more misconduct complaints; a quarter of them have more than 10. All told, the 554 officers involved in chokehold complaints have had an average of seven misconduct complaints filed against them.
The report is sobering and thorough in its findings, but its conclusions miss the mark. The report praises Bratton for his efforts to retrain NYPD officers and conduct a review of the NYPD’s use of force policies. Its main additional recommendation is “the creation of an inter-agency collaboration between the NYPD and the CCRB in order to strengthen data collection and analysis.” In other words, the institution that supposedly represents the interests of civilians wants to work even more closely with the disproportionately powerful law enforcers who sometimes target them.
According to the report, “reform” must take the shape of increased surveillance, better technology, “risk management,” and data gathering. These are the very tactics favored by the NYPD and Bratton, who is enthusiastic about adding drones to the NYPD’s policing capabilities, and has long advocated for security cameras in subway cars ( coming soon). The report makes its intentions clear enough, calling the strengthened partnership between the NYPD and the CCRB “a ‘Vision Zero’ action plan for chokeholds,” in reference to Mayor de Blasio’s plan to eliminate traffic-related deaths.
The report places the overwhelming majority of blame for lax chokehold regulation on the courts. Since chokeholds were banned in NYC in 1993, the CCRB has only been able to substantiate 32 complaints. This is due in part to a general wearing down of the rule in courts, as judges no longer prosecute for the mere application of pressure to the defendant’s neck.


But the report takes blaming the courts at the expense of all other actors into Orwellian territory. Perhaps the most outrageous suggestion is that the NYPD monitor court proceedings against its own officers. We’re pretty sure that’s not how checks on unbridled state power are supposed to work.
The real problem is not pervasive only in the courts, nor is it unique to chokehold complaints. The problem is that the NYPD, and cops in America writ large, are granted immunity from the laws they enforce with impunity. Between June 2009 and June 2014, the CCRB was able to substantiate 10 chokehold case and recommend charges be brought against the officers. As a result, a single officer lost 10 vacation days; three of the cases are still pending.
These numbers are consistent with the dismal rate at which civilian complaints against cops are substantiated, much less acted on. WNYC reported in August that in 2012 the New York CCRB received 5,471 complaints; the board recommended charges in only 175 of these cases, many of which never resulted in disciplinary action. On a national level, we’ve witnessed countless incidents in which cops don’t get charged for crimes that civilians do serious jail time for, ranging from the petty (smoking weed) to the grotesque (committing murder).
On the same day that the CCRB released its report, the family of Eric Garner announced that they intend to sue the city of New York. Though Garner’s case has received national attention and prompted a grand jury investigation that began hearing evidence last month, charges have still not been filed against the officers who killed him—business as usual for the NYC justice system.
Hannah K. Gold is a journalist, creative writer and former intern at the Nation. She lives in Brooklyn and blogs here and on Twitter @togglecoat.
 
This just in: A horse walked through automatic doors into a police station in England. The police helped him to leave. Nobody allowed the horse to file a complaint.
 
This just in: A horse walked through automatic doors into a police station in England. The police helped him to leave. Nobody allowed the horse to file a complaint.

Pablo Escobar gave food to the homeless, built homes for people, and helped people in his area. Quite a few people loved the man for the help he gave them. So what are you saying? That it's ok he also bribed and murdered a lot of other people?
 
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