Police out of Control?

sprinkles said:
Pablo Escobar gave food to the homeless, built homes for people, and helped people in his area. Quite a few people loved the man for the help he gave them. So what are you saying? That it's ok he also bribed and murdered a lot of other people?
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You got all that from the horse?
 
just me said:
You got all that from the horse?
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I don't understand the point of the horse. It's great by itself. What does it have to do with anything? How does it relate to this topic if you're not using it to paint police (in England no less) in a better light?
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]
Or are you suggesting that they violated the horses rights and should have let the horse file a complaint? I thought you were surely joking.
 
sprinkles said:
@just me
Or are you suggesting that they violated the horses rights and should have let the horse file a complaint? I thought you were surely joking.
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While quoting something that actually happened and making a small laugh, it somewhat resembles a routine traffic stop when the LEO gets shot as he approaches the vehicle. They never know exactly what they will be dealing with because of the actions of those they have dealt with in the past. They never know who is walking in the door and for what. There are so many black on black crimes in my community, LEOs are quitting left and right. Drive-by shootings, marked murders, and the police stand between them and the peaceful. If I pulled someone over or arrested someone and they wielded a gun, I would shoot them with no disdain. Why should I die because someone wants to shoot at me? There are those that merely want to see chaos in the streets to try and bankrupt local systems, and they have an agenda for doing so. It is no longer just a conversation; it is almost like war being waged on the young minds to help overthrow something they have no idea of what would replace it. Police are held to a higher standard, but they are still people and do the best they can.
 
just me said:
While quoting something that actually happened and making a small laugh, it somewhat resembles a routine traffic stop when the LEO gets shot as he approaches the vehicle. They never know exactly what they will be dealing with because of the actions of those they have dealt with in the past. They never know who is walking in the door and for what. There are so many black on black crimes in my community, LEOs are quitting left and right. Drive-by shootings, marked murders, and the police stand between them and the peaceful. If I pulled someone over or arrested someone and they wielded a gun, I would shoot them with no disdain. Why should I die because someone wants to shoot at me? There are those that merely want to see chaos in the streets to try and bankrupt local systems, and they have an agenda for doing so. It is no longer just a conversation; it is almost like war being waged on the young minds to help overthrow something they have no idea of what would replace it. Police are held to a higher standard, but they are still people and do the best they can.
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You got all that from the horse?

I don't understand. Nobody is asking for this.

Edit: I guess it could have been a trojan horse. With a small person inside ready to jump out with uzis akimbo?
 
[MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION]
Also I would argue that police aren't held to a higher standard. Procedure would suggest that they are, but unlike an average citizen the cops who break procedure are often covered for by their peers and superiors. Therefore they are more shielded from the very law they are there to enforce.

Higher standards? Maybe. But they're held to it far less than one thinks. Cop does something wrong and all his buddies will scramble to get him off the hook in anyway possible, even if for no other reason than avoiding damage to the credibility of the police force. Meanwhile with an average citizen half the world is ready to hang them if they look funny.
 
I really feel you are picking berries in a berry field.....and watching too many TV shows. Bad apples are here and there everywhere: more good ones than bad ones in most cases. Bad apples in churches, government, society, rioters, looters, schools, sports.....................They are not shielded from the law they enforce. Never had anyone set to hang me.


Actually, some people do not like authority. Some people hate all authority figures. Some people think they know better than others. They love LEOs when they are in need of them, though. Split-second decisions when dealing with someone that has a record and considered dangerous, especially toting a gun against their prior rulings, is an accident waiting to happen. There are places you would never go if it weren't for them, and places you may never walk away from.
 
just me said:
I really feel you are picking berries in a berry field.....and watching too many TV shows. Bad apples are here and there everywhere: more good ones than bad ones in most cases. Bad apples in churches, government, society, rioters, looters, schools, sports.....................They are not shielded from the law they enforce. Never had anyone set to hang me.


Actually, some people do not like authority. Some people hate all authority figures. Some people think they know better than others. They love LEOs when they are in need of them, though. Split-second decisions when dealing with someone that has a record and considered dangerous, especially toting a gun against their prior rulings, is an accident waiting to happen. There are places you would never go if it weren't for them, and places you may never walk away from.
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There is clearly…clearly…different tiers to how the police treat people.
If you are rich you get treated one way.
If you are white you get treated one way.
And if you are poor or black you are treated one way.
And that is pretty much true across the country.
Seriously?
 
just me said:
I really feel you are picking berries in a berry field.....and watching too many TV shows. Bad apples are here and there everywhere: more good ones than bad ones in most cases. Bad apples in churches, government, society, rioters, looters, schools, sports.....................They are not shielded from the law they enforce. Never had anyone set to hang me.


Actually, some people do not like authority. Some people hate all authority figures. Some people think they know better than others. They love LEOs when they are in need of them, though. Split-second decisions when dealing with someone that has a record and considered dangerous, especially toting a gun against their prior rulings, is an accident waiting to happen. There are places you would never go if it weren't for them, and places you may never walk away from.
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I lived in Detroit while it was still the real murder capital so I don't need you to tell me about unsafe places and the merits of the police.
 
I for one don't really like the police (more so as a collective) , I have this distaste.. that they think they can use such physical force towards someone who is probably struggling emotionally or psychologically, especially in situations when it's really not needed. No one deserves to be treated like a dog. The respect to the community should still be there.
Just because you know all of these types of physical defense and offense doesn't mean you are permitted to use them because you're an 'authority'. Knowing how to use them is one, but knowing when to use them is another.

I think a lot of them are paranoid, and that they are taught to expect the worse, and what comes with that is that they treat people worse than they're meant to― almost as if they forget their purpose― to protect the community.

I can't believe it, I've seen one where the police enters a property to catch someone who's running.. The police sees a dog and expected the worse so straight up shot the dog. The owner who came home saw his best pal dead.

Also when this police restraints this child, the child is not struggling at all.. almost helpless.. but he was held with such force that it angered the neighbours and especially his older brother who fought the police for being so tough and hurtful.

So as you can see, I really don't trust them. They should remember that we're all humans and not monsters to tame.
 
As with everything in life its generally the bad we focus on and not the good. Still I think its high time action is taken to hold police accountable. Make them take psychological tests every year. Cameras etc. And if you shoot someones dog your never allowed to be an officer again nor hold a weapon.
 
sprinkles said:
I lived in Detroit while it was still the real murder capital so I don't need you to tell me about unsafe places and the merits of the police.
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Glad you don't need me to tell you anything. Take away the police and there will be hell.
 
Skarekrow said:
I for one am in favor of them wearing the buttonhole type camera system that a handful of police departments have gotten…for me, it is simple - it will show if the criminal is doing what he/she is being accused of…or it will show where cops are abusing their power. At the very least, it creates the reminder to the cop that they need to always act as a professional, and not shake people down for money they earned and saved to buy a new car or need to move across the country.
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I am in agreeance with this opinion. These cameras should be mandatory. I don't see why any officer would be against wearing one unless they knew some of their past actions were questionable and they fear getting caught in the act in the future. Yet, a lot of them are against it. Makes you wonder.

Of course there are many that are for it. I'll refer to them as the "good cops".

Then there is the argument that some cops will turn the camera off. These cameras shouldn't have the option of being turned off when being worn. And the camera should always be worn when on duty. If at some point the camera is tampered with or taken off, the officer should be put on unpaid leave until they can follow orders. One strike, unpaid leave. Two strikes, you're fired.

These devices can do nothing but good for the PD's and the public. It holds everyone accountable for their actions. Sounds like a solution.
 
just me said:
Glad you don't need me to tell you anything. Take away the police and there will be hell.
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No one has argued to remove the police

What people are saying here is that police power (like any power) can be abused and is being abused

The issue here is not whether the police should be gotten rid of...the issue is whether or not the police are being used as a tool of oppression by an oppressive government ie they are out of control

To question abuses of things doesn't mean you are against things. For example you could be a capitalist and yet argue that the banks claiming to be 'too big to fail' are out of control

What we are talking about is missmanagement and te failure to regulate things to keep them within tolerable levels of behaviour

It's our responsibility as citizens of a democracy to comment on such things when we think things are drifting in unhealthy directions
 
Anywhere But Here said:
I am in agreeance with this opinion. These cameras should be mandatory. I don't see why any officer would be against wearing one unless they knew some of their past actions were questionable and they fear getting caught in the act in the future. Yet, a lot of them are against it. Makes you wonder.

Of course there are many that are for it. I'll refer to them as the "good cops".

Then there is the argument that some cops will turn the camera off. These cameras shouldn't have the option of being turned off when being worn. And the camera should always be worn when on duty. If at some point the camera is tampered with or taken off, the officer should be put on unpaid leave until they can follow orders. One strike, unpaid leave. Two strikes, you're fired.

These devices can do nothing but good for the PD's and the public. It holds everyone accountable for their actions. Sounds like a solution.
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Cameras would also be good for police officers because it can help absolve them of wrongdoing when people do make false claims. It might also help ensure that cops who deserve respect get it more often so that people can't be a dick to the cop and then claim that they weren't later on once the cop is mad.
 
Anywhere But Here said:
I am in agreeance with this opinion. These cameras should be mandatory. I don't see why any officer would be against wearing one unless they knew some of their past actions were questionable and they fear getting caught in the act in the future. Yet, a lot of them are against it. Makes you wonder.

Of course there are many that are for it. I'll refer to them as the "good cops".

Then there is the argument that some cops will turn the camera off. These cameras shouldn't have the option of being turned off when being worn. And the camera should always be worn when on duty. If at some point the camera is tampered with or taken off, the officer should be put on unpaid leave until they can follow orders. One strike, unpaid leave. Two strikes, you're fired.

These devices can do nothing but good for the PD's and the public. It holds everyone accountable for their actions. Sounds like a solution.
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The problem is deeper than that though. The problem is not just with the police. The police are being changed due to policy decisions made outwith the police force...political reasons

For example we now know that the government is spying on all communications of US citizens and not just the metadata (who is sending what to who when) but also the content. This means the government is intercepting and storing all of your emails, texts and phone calls (unless you are using cryptography)

The escalation of police violence is simply a symptom of a government that is increasingly treating its own citizens as if they are the enemy
 
sprinkles said:
Cameras would also be good for police officers because it can help absolve them of wrongdoing when people do make false claims. It might also help ensure that cops who deserve respect get it more often so that people can't be a dick to the cop and then claim that they weren't later on once the cop is mad.
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It is undoubtably a solution that should be considered. It won't fix everything but it would be a great start in working towards accountability of actions, good or bad.

But we all know that this world isn't ready for solutions. We like to make things difficult for ourselves. An idea like this will take time to sink in. A million lawsuits later.
 
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