[PUG] Christiantiy

[just me]

The Bible uses that. It says God is Love.
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind; and love your neighbor as yourself. In these two things are all the laws and the prophets.....against such there is no law. Synopsis of the Bible.

 

[kyo]

Did God create temptation, or did someone or something see what was being done and think he/she/it could be like God?

Was the account of the creation of man and woman explained for us to understand better, or was it explained so we would ask more questions?

God did not create temptations. Satan, who once was one of Gods angels, wanted to be like God and rebelled against him. That was a sin to God, thus satan was expelled from heaven.
Now, satan creates temptations because he wants us to not follow God. Satan still wants to be godlike.

About the creation, I think it is essential to include the creation of man in the story, since the story is written for us. I think it is mostly an explanation. You can still make up questions, but if that story wasnot there, we would have even more questions.

This is my view.. others might disagree

 

[just me]

God did not create temptations. Satan, who once was one of Gods angels, wanted to be like God and rebelled against him. That was a sin to God, thus satan was expelled from heaven.
Now, satan creates temptations because he wants us to not follow God. Satan still wants to be godlike.

About the creation, I think it is essential to include the creation of man in the story, since the story is written for us. I think it is mostly an explanation. You can still make up questions, but if that story wasnot there, we would have even more questions.

This is my view.. others might disagree

Of course others will disagree, but some will agree. I never really expected an answer to those questions. Good of you to jump up to the plate.

 

[Eric86]

To give an example what do Richard Dawkins and the Holy See have in common?

I want to smack them and tell them to sit down and shut the fuck up.

I can certainly identify with the reasoning behind that sentiment, though my reaction to it isn't the same. (More accurately, I've learned to simply not react to it, though it can be very difficult when my ego attempts to override that.)
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[acd]

Did God create temptation, or did someone or something see what was being done and think he/she/it could be like God?

Was the account of the creation of man and woman explained for us to understand better, or was it explained so we would ask more questions?

I understand the whole Lucifer wanted to be like God thing..

It just seems like the run-around. Create beings to love and worship you, that's not good enough, you want beings that CHOOSE to love and worship you..

Yet choosing isn't really good enough because you're a vengeful God and you demand blood because sin offends you so much, so the only thing that makes sense is to demand animals for slaughter and have those who disobey you stoned to death until you can be born as a person and commit deicide... for our sake.

I just don't understand how any of that makes sense and redeems people. There's a big gap there for me. A leap from the Fall to Redemption with none of it making much if any sense. I'm not trying to offend, I'm being honest.

It's not in me to believe. If there is a god, I hope the being understands the interworkings of my mind because I'm not not believing to rebel for the sake of rebelling, I'm not believing because it makes no sense to me and on this planet, you need to rely on sense to survive and be successful in your survival.

I've tried to talk to pastors years ago hoping it would foster what faith I had left.. the only thing I learned is that I'm usually asking questions that have no answers, because the answer is faith.

How is it that you're able to accept faith? Do you really think that all of it makes sense? Are you hoping you'll find the answers in the end?

 

[Barnabas]

I understand the whole Lucifer wanted to be like God thing..

It just seems like the run-around. Create beings to love and worship you, that's not good enough, you want beings that CHOOSE to love and worship you..

Yet choosing isn't really good enough because you're a vengeful God and you demand blood because sin offends you so much, so the only thing that makes sense is to demand animals for slaughter and have those who disobey you stoned to death until you can be born as a person and commit deicide... for our sake.

I just don't understand how any of that makes sense and redeems people. There's a big gap there for me. A leap from the Fall to Redemption with none of it making much if any sense. I'm not trying to offend, I'm being honest.

It's not in me to believe. If there is a god, I hope the being understands the interworkings of my mind because I'm not not believing to rebel for the sake of rebelling, I'm not believing because it makes no sense to me and on this planet, you need to rely on sense to survive and be successful in your survival.

I've tried to talk to pastors years ago hoping it would foster what faith I had left.. the only thing I learned is that I'm usually asking questions that have no answers, because the answer is faith.

How is it that you're able to accept faith? Do you really think that all of it makes sense? Are you hoping you'll find the answers in the end?

Sin, Satan and redemption are all heavy subjects, people on the doctoral level have commmited a thousand books to each of these seperate subjects and ten thousand mor have been written on the subjects combined.

To say that the average believer doesn't get it would be an understatement, Hell some of the heavy theological discussions we've had in just a single class for the fundementals of Christian beliefs was far heavier then anything you'll hear in sunday school.

If you ask me, I think you need to get a higher education in this area or atleast seek out some one of atleast doctoral education to help you understand it.

The reality of the matter though is that most don't need this kind of info to lead a Christ filled life, they are more then happy to accept that it is and there is no reason to look down on that.


I know it doesn't make sense to you now, and if you continue on this path it never will. I invite you to find the real answers to your questions.

 

[randomsomeone]

I guess it makes sense to me because the whole thing is and was about making connection....or in the case of Christianity, restoring connection that had gone askew...God making a way where none existed, reaching to us rather than visa versa.

Connection to the Divine is a theme in many, many religions, as is the problem of the disconnect and instinct to work past this. There are many ways of articulating this...so many in fact that, yes, it all does start to make sense.

I also think, that Christ did something remarkable in his time on earth to restore connections to the Divine that are tragically lost in our vision and life experience....one can approach this from many, many directions and, here again, the sheer number of connections multiply and unfold. In my case this lead me to take the next step and actually believe. Within the world of belief the connections just multiply and deepen to the point of where we can move from illusion really encounter cosmic mystery, ultimate reality, and human enlightenment.

If people want to throw darts from the outside that's fine....there's been quite a few darts being thrown from the inside, too. However, the core essential mystery of Christ is pretty expansive as is the experience of those who have sought to live within this mystery over the centuries. I assure you, the journey is as fresh and new today as it was in ages past. That is why it is still all so relevant.

That said, I do understand those who may be stymied by church culture and pop christian rhetoric. There is much, much more to the whole thing, though....otherwise I'd probably have checked out, too!!! Some things folks find to be obstacles are really based on misunderstandings, but there are real obstacles, too. Most of these (that matter) are inner ones.

 

[Raccoon Love]

Sin, Satan and redemption are all heavy subjects, people on the doctoral level have commmited a thousand books to each of these seperate subjects and ten thousand mor have been written on the subjects combined.

To say that the average believer doesn't get it would be an understatement, Hell some of the heavy theological discussions we've had in just a single class for the fundementals of Christian beliefs was far heavier then anything you'll hear in sunday school.

If you ask me, I think you need to get a higher education in this area or atleast seek out some one of atleast doctoral education to help you understand it.

The reality of the matter though is that most don't need this kind of info to lead a Christ filled life, they are more then happy to accept that it is and there is no reason to look down on that.


I know it doesn't make sense to you now, and if you continue on this path it never will. I invite you to find the real answers to your questions.

Interesting indeed, I can imagine that there's just so many concepts that us a humans cannot grasp. I believe that the true nature of God itself is a mystery and even though we can learn more about God through a variety of means, we will never be able to get all the answers we seek. Why? Because God is perfect and us humans are imperfect and since we are unable to grasp such major concepts than we fail to fully understand God's nature.

However, I do not agree to the fact that a lot of Christians based their whole life on just simply praying expecting that will lead to their path of salvation. I believe God wants us to ask this questions. Curiosity is a human gift( given to us by the supreme being) and indeed it is needed for the advancement of our society. Without said curiosity we would have never made all the scientific advancements which have been made and the many more to come. Therefore it is essential and only natural that many of us are curious on this subject. A simple answer such as just faith does not satisfy many, we want to know more and more. We are rational beings and have the need to know all this answers. This is what I don't agree with many religions who are not open to any other alternatives and just say ''obey, obey and obey'' the commands when in reality the whole validity of the religion can be questioned. I think Christians today should indeed focus on learning more about the nature of God and be a bit more open to certain things, specially since indeed times are not the same.

 

[acd]

Hmmm.. If it's all that complex why bother? I'm a fan of the ol' occam's razor and perhaps, I am a simpleton ::tips cap:: I really don't see the point in searching for mystical answers to esoteric questions and revolving my life around such things..
when there's so much glorious living to do right here in the now. That is all.
(hands in N card.)

 

[Barnabas]

Hmmm.. If it's all that complex why bother? I'm a fan of the ol' occam's razor and perhaps, I am a simpleton ::tips cap:: I really don't see the point in searching for mystical answers to esoteric questions and revolving my life around such things..
when there's so much glorious living to do right here in the now. That is all.
(hands in N card.)

feel free, there is none to stop you. But as I said, I think this kind of scholarship would suit you. You have good mind for it.

 

[jlynnr]

I understand the whole Lucifer wanted to be like God thing..

It just seems like the run-around. Create beings to love and worship you, that's not good enough, you want beings that CHOOSE to love and worship you..

Yet choosing isn't really good enough because you're a vengeful God and you demand blood because sin offends you so much, so the only thing that makes sense is to demand animals for slaughter and have those who disobey you stoned to death until you can be born as a person and commit deicide... for our sake.

I just don't understand how any of that makes sense and redeems people. There's a big gap there for me. A leap from the Fall to Redemption with none of it making much if any sense. I'm not trying to offend, I'm being honest.

It's not in me to believe. If there is a god, I hope the being understands the interworkings of my mind because I'm not not believing to rebel for the sake of rebelling, I'm not believing because it makes no sense to me and on this planet, you need to rely on sense to survive and be successful in your survival.

I've tried to talk to pastors years ago hoping it would foster what faith I had left.. the only thing I learned is that I'm usually asking questions that have no answers, because the answer is faith.

How is it that you're able to accept faith? Do you really think that all of it makes sense? Are you hoping you'll find the answers in the end?

I think that clearly there's some bits of it that make more sense than others - and clearly God is infinite and we are not going to understand an infinite God - but I don't really agree with Barnabas, that it's not information you need - the human brain is a strange thing; most of the time if you think you need to know something, then that mere thinking you need to means that you probably will, on some level, need to understand it. Or - more realistically - understand why you don't need to understand it....

did that make sense? hahaaaa. this is where the mainly incoherent artist in me comes out.

I have taken to realizing that there are some things that I don't understand, and thinking about them for a while, and - while still not understanding them - asking God to help me understand them and then trusting Him that He will - and then checking my understandings against the Bible and against theology books. Or books that I know are by theologically sound writers - Lewis's space trilogy, for example.

I hope that made sense too.

Anyways, my point is that you can't dismiss these kinds of questions by saying "eh, I'll never understand that, so why try?" There's value in trying to understand and then realizing on your own that you can't - and I know that this sounds like the same thing, and the only difference is the quality of the process, if that makes sense - and then choosing to trust God to reveal them to you as you can handle them.

And for me that's a lot of what my life is right now - praying to understand something, and then paying attention to my life. Praying and paying attention. So for me dismissing the questions without even considering them just doesn't make sense.

 

[jlynnr]

Interesting indeed, I can imagine that there's just so many concepts that us a humans cannot grasp. I believe that the true nature of God itself is a mystery and even though we can learn more about God through a variety of means, we will never be able to get all the answers we seek. Why? Because God is perfect and us humans are imperfect and since we are unable to grasp such major concepts than we fail to fully understand God's nature.

However, I do not agree to the fact that a lot of Christians based their whole life on just simply praying expecting that will lead to their path of salvation. I believe God wants us to ask this questions. Curiosity is a human gift( given to us by the supreme being) and indeed it is needed for the advancement of our society. Without said curiosity we would have never made all the scientific advancements which have been made and the many more to come. Therefore it is essential and only natural that many of us are curious on this subject. A simple answer such as just faith does not satisfy many, we want to know more and more. We are rational beings and have the need to know all this answers. This is what I don't agree with many religions who are not open to any other alternatives and just say ''obey, obey and obey'' the commands when in reality the whole validity of the religion can be questioned. I think Christians today should indeed focus on learning more about the nature of God and be a bit more open to certain things, specially since indeed times are not the same.

Also I agree with this.

Someone, somewhere, said that you can't pray the things that are outside of you - you can only pray the things that are inside of you - which makes total and complete sense, because after all you are yourself, and you can only really truly MEAN things when they are YOU...
So praying something like "Lord, I trust You" when you don't is pointless...what I tend to do is pray, "Lord, I don't trust You. I don't know what that MEANS. But I WANT to know."
Which, in a way, is putting trust into action, because I'm trusting God to show me what that means.
It's all circular and stuff.

To me, that connects to what you were saying, Raccoon - I don't know if it does for anyone else.

 

[randomsomeone]

Yes, I agree...it is very good to search, seek, question. The only things we have to be mindful of is 1) that we may not fully understand the question we are asking and make erroneous assumptions that create apparent dead ends where really none exist, and 2) sometimes we want a system that totally agrees with us...our own egos can stop us. Entering into faith fully means letting go to a degree and allowing ourselves to encounter a whole other system of being. That's where things get interesting.

The above mentioned items are not "fixed" in an instant...it is a lifelong process, ever deepening.

 

[randomsomeone]

when there's so much glorious living to do right here in the now.

The spiritual journey is very much connected to this...extracting joy from all of life on many levels. Sometimes one loses certain things (generally illusory, but it sure seems real to us!!) only to find something much greater, deeper, unshakable. There are many great traditions that speak to such things....Christianity is one of these, albeit with some fairly unique features.