[PUG] The Drug Culture

[BenW]

I'm thinking of activities like drunk driving, with no responsibility to employers or property (besides your own body and car) to be considered.

On public or private roads?

 

[TheLastMohican]

On public or private roads?

Public.

Perhaps you're thinking of private roads, in an anarcho-capitalist society?

 

[BenW]

Public.

Perhaps you're thinking of private roads, in an anarcho-capitalist society?

Prettymuch.

It's hard for me to make any statement about what legal standards people should be held to on "public" property, since I don't think it should exist to begin with.

 

[corvidae]

Violence against others, due to drugs addiction or otherwise, should be grounds for imprisonment. But if narcotics were legalized and regulated, violent drug dealers wouldn't exist in the first place. If prisons weren't so crowded by non-violent drug offenders, perhaps we would have more space for violent drug offenders.

 

[GaiaGraha]

If it wasn't illegal than there wouldn't be crime involved with it......just saying......


And I don't think the argument is whether drugs are good for people or not, obviously they're not vitamins. But I don't think one really has the right to outlaw someone else from harming themselves, that is their own choice.

Outlawing drugs doesn't really stop people from doing them, except maybe a few. And for some it is only another reason to do them.
I think that the thing we should want to avoid is addiction, not use- but anyone who knows about addiction knows that the cause of it is not to enjoy the drug, but instead it is caused by some other unresolved issue that the person is trying to cover up.
Obviously chemical dependencies form, but those can be taken care of medically and the person can stop drug use by abstaining, but then they just end up relapsing because the original cause for the addiction was not taken care of.

It's often true that it's not the drug that kills the addict, it's the lifestyle. That lifestyle is created not because of use, but because of addiction

I'm not really a drug user, never really have been. But the smartest person I know uses lots of drugs and has for years- and he is also the most healthy and physically fit person I know, and he's very successful, and a stand-up citizen. He's just an example of how our mental image about drug users can be a stereotype- yes, many drug-users are dumb, many are criminals, but not all of them are.

SO yeah.....
I don't really know if I agree or disagree with anyone. Just talkin'.

 

[bamf]

Errrr, addiction isn't always a substitution for something else in an addicts life. Also, medical 'fixes' aren't really always a solution to drug addiction. Abstaining from drugs is also a lot harder than it sounds, for an addict. Some people are hardwired to be an addict, be it to food, coffee, sex, or drugs. Some people have a hard time simply saying "no".

 

[GaiaGraha]

Errrr, addiction isn't always a substitution for something else in an addicts life. Also, medical 'fixes' aren't really always a solution to drug addiction. Abstaining from drugs is also a lot harder than it sounds, for an addict. Some people are hardwired to be an addict, be it to food, coffee, sex, or drugs. Some people have a hard time simply saying "no".

Addictions almost ALWAYS boil down to emotional problems of some kind.
OBVIOUSLY it's not easy to abstain, my point is that even when an addict DOES abstain, they usually end up relapsing because they never solved their real problem.
Not only have I studied this, and been very close to people who got over addictions and some who did not, but I have also helped to counsel people with addictions.
No one is hardwired to be an addict. Some people may have more addictive personalities, or less will power, but no one is hardwired from birth to become an addict.
The issue is not about the ability to say "no".

The problem is that we need to teach people how to deal with their emotional problems, instead of telling them to cover it up and having them find the means to do so in a substance of some kind. (this is why men are more likely to be alcoholics- because they are taught to not have emotions even though they actually have the exact same amount of feelings that women do- so, rather than expressing their pain, they try to drown it.)

 

[bamf]

Being an addict myself, I can guarantee you my addiction didn't start because of emotional problems. Sure, it gave way to many emotional problems, but it started because I was simply curious, then I realized I liked the feeling (because in all honesty, it is awesome), then I realized I didn't want it to stop, then I realized it was creating problems.

I wasn't saying that people are destine to be an addict, but people are predisposed. It's hereditary.

Many of my friends who are/were addicts, started for the same reason. Curiosity.

Not that I'm saying it's the same way for everyone, but saying it's an outcome of covering up emotions is dramatic. Yes, it creates problems, and yes some people use because of emotional problems, but hardly "almost always".

 

[GaiaGraha]

Being an addict myself, I can guarantee you my addiction didn't start because of emotional problems. Sure, it gave way to many emotional problems, but it started because I was simply curious, then I realized I liked the feeling (because in all honesty, it is awesome), then I realized I didn't want it to stop, then I realized it was creating problems.

I wasn't saying that people are destine to be an addict, but people are predisposed. It's hereditary.

Many of my friends who are/were addicts, started for the same reason. Curiosity.

Not that I'm saying it's the same way for everyone, but saying it's an outcome of covering up emotions is dramatic. Yes, it creates problems, and yes some people use because of emotional problems, but hardly "almost always".

I really don't think it's dramatic. Everyone has emotional issues, some are bigger than others, but most people don't know how to deal with them in a healthy way, and many turn to unhealthy methods like drinking, drugs, cutting, eating disorders....etc.
And I'm speaking from more than personal experience.

Hey, if you say that your addiction started strictly from curiosity obviously I can't deny that- I don't know you. I know it is possible to become an addict without having an emotional issue. Anything is possible, after all. The problem is when people quit a drug and are clean but then they just restart because they still need it to cope with an emotional issue. THAT is what I am talking about. That's why I was suggesting that we deal with THAT problem. And YES- it is a BIG problem.

 

[bamf]

Now, I agree that for some (possibly many) addicts, the relapses happen because of emotional issues that they haven't resolved. However, that isn't what you first said.

This is the part that I've been disagreeing with

but anyone who knows about addiction knows that the cause of it is not to enjoy the drug, but instead it is caused by some other unresolved issue that the person is trying to cover up.

That's what isn't true. Many actually do enjoy the drug, and simply abstaining from it is horrible. Opiate addiction for example. Someone starts off just using recreationally, and then it turns into a full-blown addiction before they even know it. The rush is great, and that's why they started. Because, to put it simply, opiates were fun when they first tried them. Not because they started using to cover up emotional issues, or anything like that. They started because they were curious, and bit off more than they could chew.

Their relapses aren't always going to be emotional either. The monkey never truely goes away. The addict learns to control the urges, but the brain/body still want the drug because it works the reward centers of the brain. They could go 20 years being clean, and then relapse because they simply had an err of judgement one night when they were offered some smack.


To be clear, I've never been arguing that addictions can't be emotion, rather that I disagreed with your first statement of...

but anyone who knows about addiction knows that the cause of it is not to enjoy the drug, but instead it is caused by some other unresolved issue that the person is trying to cover up.