Pushing Buttons...

[Asa]

Or maybe like a minute into this?

Is the short one with the bell the real narcissist?

I was thinking as I read through the posts here that there are parallels with people who suffer from dementia. These poor folks too can be very unsociable in their behaviours and others can get hurt in the process - I've had to deal with dementia in both my parents and it's not easy. The problem if you engage with them in the wrong sort of way is that you become dragged into their worldview, and you start to argue with them on their own ground. It's futile, and you just come away drained emotionally, with no good outcome for the other. Trying to persuade my dad in the later stages that aliens were not beaming germs into his bedroom was a nightmare . At least this is not easy to mistake for a moral deficiency, which is why narcissist are thought of as bad people whilst folks with dementia are not. I suspect that trying to argue a narcissist into acknowledging their condition or to be empathic is as futile, and for analogous reasons.

I'm so sorry you endured this.

This is an interesting comparison. I see what you mean clearly.

With dementia patients, we are also honoring the person they once were. That affects how we treat them.

It also seems easier to navigate around a dementia patient's reality, while narcissists are very good at masquerading and tricking others into following along with their "realities" or schemes and we wake up later, realizing we've been turned into pigs.

I have seen people get sucked in by dementia patients, too, but it is often because they refuse to accept the situation... like how a man may forget who his second wife is and call her by the name of his first wife because older memories are the ones that stay intact. It isn't a choice and it doesn't mean he loved her less.

 

[John K]

Is the short one with the bell the real narcissist?

There's possible more than one here LOL

I'm so sorry you endured this.

This is an interesting comparison. I see what you mean clearly.

With dementia patients, we are also honoring the person they once were. That affects how we treat them.

It also seems easier to navigate around a dementia patient's reality, while narcissists are very good at masquerading and tricking others into following along with their "realities" or schemes and we wake up later, realizing we've been turned into pigs.

I have seen people get sucked in by dementia patients, too, but it is often because they refuse to accept the situation... like how a man may forget who his second wife is and call her by the name of his first wife because older memories are the ones that stay intact. It isn't a choice and it doesn't mean he loved her less.

Yes, it's easier to spot the dementia patient - though in earlier stages it's very frustrating for close family because they are very good at dissembling when the medics and social services check them over. Oh yes, of course they can manage all on their own, they're doing fine, no problem here! Meanwhile family are running around like nobody's business trying to keep them afloat LOL. The parallels with narcissism are oblique though - and like you say there was a very valued before.

It's a strange thing with dementia patients that if you spend time with them it's very hard to have a conversation with them and not get sucked into their weird worldview. You feel you either have to agree with them over something that's utter nonsense, or you have to try and argue them out of it which is like one of those dreams where you get stuck in treacly air and can't run. Either way you get sucked into a netherworld that leaves you spinning. The trick is to try and divert them and sidestep the weirdness, but that's hard work and emotionally draining for family - the professional care staff are very good at it and it's easier for someone who isn't so invested with the person.

The point I'm really trying to get hold of is that if NPD is a genuine psychological disorder then treating it as a moral fault is as futile as doing the same with other sorts of mental illness that bring negative social behaviours with them. Engaging with them I suspect runs a similar sort of risk as engaging with a dementia patient, that you move onto their mental territory whether you go along with or argue with them - except that it's more subtle because the NPD person is not cognitively impaired and so is very good at it. A lot of emotional energy is consumed in those sorts of exchanges.

Mind you, I do wonder if there are at least some folks who are in fact behaving just downright wickedly.

 

[just me]

narcissistic

 

[Wyote]