Putins message to western leaders: playtime is over

[muir]

[MENTION=12103]Erlian[/MENTION] [MENTION=4115]Lark[/MENTION]

Look objectively at the following quotes; these are powerful people telling you what is going on. If you disregard the confessions of those in power then there is nothing that will ever convince you. These quotes are tantamount to a signed confession and i see no deeper evidence that you could ask for

It;s right there for anyone who is not going to delude themself

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2007/250907NWOquotes.htm

It is not my intention to doubt that the doctrine of the Illuminati and the principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more satisfied of this fact than I am.
George Washington​

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"Today the path of total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people. Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government - a bureaucratic elite."
Senator William Jenner, 1954​

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"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system, they will rule the future."
U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: With No Apologies.​

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"The case for government by elites is irrefutable."
Senator William Fulbright, Former chairman of the US Senate Foreign
Relations Committee, stated at a 1963 symposium entitled: The Elite and the Electorate - Is Government by the People Possible?​

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"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."
A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933​

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"The depression was the calculated 'shearing' of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market....The One World Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank."
Curtis Dall, FDR's son-in-law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father-in-Law​

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"The United States must stay involved in the world and we must lead. Today there is a strange coalition at work in Washington and across the country consisting of people on the political right and the political left coming together to keep us from staying involved. Big labor and liberal Democrats are joining some Republicans on the right in calling for America to come home, (saying) we have done our part and that it's time for others to do the heavy lifting on international leadership. And we must not listen to that siren's call of protection and isolation. "
Former President George Bush
Addressing Duke University Graduates May 17, 1998
USA Today May 29, 1998​

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"Rarely have Americans lived through so much change, in so many ways, in so short a time. Quietly, but with gathering force, the ground has shifted beneath our feet as we have moved into an Information Age, a global economy, a truly new world."
President William Clinton State of the Union Address 1998​

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"...all of us here at the policy-making level have had experience with directives...from the White House.... The substance of them is that we shall use our grant-making power so as to alter our life in the United States that we can be comfortably merged with the Soviet Union."
H. Rowan Gaither, Jr., President - Ford Foundation (as told to Norman Dodd, Congressional Reese Commission 1954)​

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"The New Deal is plainly an attempt to achieve a working socialism and avert a social collapse in America; it is extraordinarily parallel to the successive 'policies' and 'Plans' of the Russian experiment. Americans shirk the word 'socialism', but what else can one call it?"
H.G. Wells The New World Order 1939​

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"Our job is to give people not what they want, but what we decide they ought to have."
Richard Salent, former president, CBS News​

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"Ultimately, our objective is to welcome the Soviet Union back into the world order. Perhaps the world order of the future will truly be a family of nations."
President George Bush Texas A&M University 1989​

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"We will succeed in the Gulf. And when we do, the world community will have sent an enduring warning to any dictator or despot, present or future, who contemplates outlaw aggression. The world can therefore seize this opportunity to fufill the long-held promise of a new world order - where brutality will go unrewarded, and aggression will meet collective resistance."
President George Bush State of the Union Address 1991​

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"Under Socialism you would not be allowed to be poor. You would be forcibly fed, clothed, lodged, taught, and employed whether you liked it or not. If it were discovered that you had not the character and industry enough to be worth all this trouble, you might possibly be executed in a kindly manner. . . ." [This is compassionate liberalism.]
Fabian Socialist Bernard Shaw in his Intelligent Woman's Guide to Socialism and Capitalism, 1928.​

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"Since March 9, 1933, the United states has been in a state of national emergency. A majority of the people of the United States have their lives under emergency rule. For 40 years (now 72 years) freedoms and governmental procedures, guaranteed by the Constitution have, in varying degrees, been abridged by laws brought forth by states of national emergency."
Senate Report 93-549 (1973).​

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"Even though it is quite true that any radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care, and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable."
Sir Julian Huxley, first Director General of UNESCO, 1946-1948.​

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"The most merciful thing that the large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
Margaret Sanger, outspoken atheist and socialist, founder of the Voluntary Parenthood League in 1914, and responsible for opening the first birth control clinic in the United States in New York City.​

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"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets, and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows."
Katherine Graham, Washington Post publisher and CFR member.​

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"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."
Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, in a novel he published in 1844 called Coningsby, the New Generation​

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'They came first for the Communists...
but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews...
but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.​

Then they came for the Jews...
but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the Unionists...
but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics...
but I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me...and by that time...
there was no-one left to speak up for me.
- Rev. Martin Niemoller, commenting on events in Germany 1933-1939
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"I reject the idea that humans are superior to other life forms. . . Man is just an ape with an overly developed sense of superiority."
-- Paul Watson, director of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society and a founder of Greenpeace​

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"You know the one thing that is wrong in this country? Everyone gets a chance to have their fair say."
President Bill Clinton​

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"There is no such thing as an independent press in America, unless it is in the country towns. You know it and I know it. There is not one of you who dares to write your honest opinions, and if you did, you know beforehand that it would never appear in print.​

"I am paid $150.00 a week for keeping my honest opinion out of the paper I am connected with. Others of you are paid similar salaries for doing similar things. If I should permit honest opinions to be printed in one issue of my paper, like Othello, before twenty-four hours, my occupation would be gone.
"The business of the New York journalist is to destroy truth; to lie outright; to pervert; to vilify, to fawn at the feet of Mammon; to sell his country and his race for his daily bread. We are the tools and vessels for rich men behind the scenes. We are intellectual prostitutes."
John Swinton, editor of the New York Tribune.
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"We are going to impose our agenda on the coverage by dealing with issues and subjects that we choose to deal with."
Richard M. Cohen, Senior Producer of CBS political news.
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"In total, during the first eighty-eight years of this century, almost 170 million men, women, and children have been shot, beaten, tortured, knifed, burned, starved, frozen, crushed, or worked to death; buried alive, drowned, hung, bombed, or killed in any other of the myriad ways governments have inflicted death on unarmed, helpless citizens and foreigners. The dead could conceivably be nearly 360 million people. It is as though our species has been devastated by a modern Black Plague. And indeed it has, but a plague of Power, not of germs."
Dr. R. J. Rummel, Death by Government.
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"The people will be crushed under the burden of taxes, loan after loan will be floated; after having drained the present, the State will devour the future."
Fredric Bastiat
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"Undersecretary of State Sumner Welles tonight called for the early creation of an international organization of anti-Axis nations to control the world during the period between the armistice at the end of the present war and the setting up of a new world order on a permanent basis."
Text of article in The Philadelphia Inquirer (June 1942)
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"The statement went on to say that the spiritual teachings of religion must become the foundation for the new world order and that national sovereignty must be subordinate to the higher moral law of God."
American Institute of Judaism, excerpt from article in The New York Times (December 1942)
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"There are some plain common-sense considerations applicable to all these attempts at world planning. They can be briefly stated: 1. To talk of blueprints for the future or building a world order is, if properly understood, suggestive, but it is also dangerous. Societies grow far more truly than they are built. A constitution for a new world order is never like a blueprint for a skyscraper."
Norman Thomas, in his book What Is Our Destiny? (1944)
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"The United Nations, he told an audience at Harvard University, 'has not been able--nor can it be able--to shape a new world order which events so compellingly demand.' ... The new world order that will answer economic, military, and political problems, he said, 'urgently requires, I believe, that the United States take the leadership among all free peoples to make the underlying concepts and aspirations of national sovereignty truly meaningful through the federal approach."
Gov. Nelson Rockefeller of New York, in an article entitled "Rockefeller Bids Free Lands Unite: Calls at Harvard for Drive to Build New World Order" -- The New York Times (February 1962)
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"He [President Nixon] spoke of the talks as a beginning, saying nothing more about the prospects for future contacts and merely reiterating the belief he brought to China that both nations share an interest in peace and building 'a new world order."
Excerpt from an article in The New York Times (February 1972)
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"If instant world government, Charter review, and a greatly strengthened International Court do not provide the answers, what hope for progress is there? The answer will not satisfy those who seek simple solutions to complex problems, but it comes down essentially to this: The hope for the foreseeable lies, not in building up a few ambitious central institutions of universal membership and general jurisdiction as was envisaged at the end of the last war, but rather in the much more decentralized, disorderly and pragmatic process of inventing or adapting institutions of limited jurisdiction and selected membership to deal with specific problems on a case-by-case basis ... In short, the 'house of world order' will have to be built from the bottom up rather than f rom the top down. It will look like a great 'booming, buzzing confusion,' to use William James' famous description of reality, but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault."
Richard N. Gardner, in Foreign Affairs (April 1974)
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"The Final Act of the Uruguay Round, marking the conclusion of the most ambitious trade negotiation of our century, will give birth - in Morocco - to the World Trade Organization, the third pillar of the New World Order, along with the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund."
Part of full-page advertisement by the government of Morocco in The New York Times (April 1994)
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"Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure." Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times.
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"The truth of the matter is that you do have those standby provisions, and the statutory emergency plans are there whereby you could, in the name of stopping terrorism, apprehend, invoke the military, and arrest Americans and hold them in detention camps."
U.S. Representative Henry Gonzalez, August 29, 1994
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"We are moving toward a new world order, the world of communism. We shall never turn off that road."
Mikhail Gorbachev 1987
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"National Socialism will use its own revolution for establishing of a new world order."
Adolph Hitler during World War II
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"To keep global resource use within prudent limits while the poor raise their living standards, affluent societies need to consume less.
Population, consumption, technology, development, and the environment are linked in complex relationships that bear closely on human welfare in the global neighbourhood. Their effective and equitable management calls for a systemic, long-term, global approach guided by the principle of sustainable development, which has been the central lesson from the mounting ecological dangers of recent times. Its universal application is a priority among the tasks of global governance."
United Nations Our Global Neighborhood 1995
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"[E]ducation should aim not so much at acquisition of knowledge. . . [today] there is less need to know the content of information. . . . [There should be a] transformation of life in totality . . . [a] profound commitment to social tasks. . . . Achievement of socialist countries . . . have laid the foundation of a way of life which makes everyone understand its [sic] individual relevance. . . [whereas capitalism] lays the foundation of rivalry and aggression and encourages exaggerated consumption, [making] man a slave of ambition and social status symbols. . . [Lifelong learning promotes] equality of end result, and not merely of opportunity . . . [and] fosters equality in terms of opinions, aspirations, motivation, and so on. . . . There is a dilemma -- if lifelong education were to be based on the aim of increasing the yield of business enterprises and economic growth, it would merely serve to establish a totalitarian, one-dimension society."
-- Foundations of Lifelong Education, a UNESCO publication in 1976.
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"There does exist and has existed for a generation, an international . . . network which operates, to some extent, in the way the radical right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other groups and frequently does so. I know of the operations of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960s, to examine its papers and secret records. I have no aversion to it or to most of its aims and have, for much of my life, been close to it and to many of its instruments. I have objected, both in the past and recently, to a few of its policies . . . but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known."
Professor Carroll Quigley, in his book Tragedy and Hope, 1966.
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"A total world population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal."
Ted Turner, in an interview with Audubon magazine.
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"We in the press like to say we're honest brokers of information and it's just not true. The press does have an agenda."
Bernard Goldberg, as quoted by Harry Stein in the June 13-19, 1992 TV Guide.
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"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties."
New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
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"Let me control a peoples currency and I care not who makes their laws."
Meyer Nathaniel Rothschild in a speech to a gathering of world bankers February 12, 1912. The following year, the USA subscribed to the 'services' of the newly incorporated Federal Reserve, headed by Mr. Rothschild.
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"We need a program of psychosurgery for political control of our society. The purpose is physical control of the mind. Everyone who deviates from the given norm can be surgically mutilated. The individual may think that the most important reality is his own existence, but this is only his personal point of view. . . Man does not have the right to develop his own mind. . . . We must electronically control the brain. Someday armies and generals will be controlled by electronic stimulation of the brain."
Dr. Jose M.R. Delgado, Director of Neuropsychiatry, Yale University Medical School, Congressional Record, No. 26, Vol. 118, February 24, 1974.
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"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order."
From The National Educator, K.M. Heaton
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"The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But under the name of "liberalism" they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a Socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." Norman Thomas, for many years U.S. Socialist Presidential candidate.
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"The time for absolute and exclusive sovereignty...has passed; its theory was never matched by reality."
UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali, An Agenda for Peace, 1992.
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"The world can therefore seize the opportunity [Persian Gulf crisis] to fulfill the long-held promise of a New World Order where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind."
George Herbert Walker Bush

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"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."
Hermann Goering, President of the Reichstag, Nazi Party, and Luftwaffe Commander in Chief
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"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets, and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows."
-- Katherine Graham, Washington Post publisher and Bilderberger
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"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."
Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.
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"In the event that I am reincarnated, I would like to return as a deadly virus, in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."
Reported by Deutsche Press Agentur (DPA), August, 1988.
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"I just wonder what it would be like to be reincarnated in an animal whose species had been so reduced in numbers than it was in danger of extinction. What would be its feelings toward the human species whose population explosion had denied it somewhere to exist.... I must confess that I am tempted to ask for reincarnation as a particularly deadly virus."
Prince Philip, in his Foreward to If I Were an Animal; United Kingdom, Robin Clark Ltd., 1986.
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"It is now apparent that the ecological pragmatism of the so-called pagan religions, such as that of the American Indians, the Polynesians, and the Australian Aborigines, was a great deal more realistic in terms of conservation ethics than the more intellectual monotheistic philosophies of the revealed religions."
Press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C. on the occasion of the ``Caring for Creation'' conference of the North American Conference on Religion and Ecology, May 18, 1990.
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"I don't claim to have any special interest in natural history, but as a boy I was made aware of the annual fluctuations in the number of game animals and the need to adjust the 'cull' to the size of the surplus population."
Preface to Down to Earth by HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, 1988, p.|8.
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"This is a moment to seize. The kaleidoscope has been shaken, the pieces are in flux, soon they will settle again. Before they do, let us re-order this world around us."
Tony Blair, Tuesday, 2 October, 2001
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"Other countries will not take lectures about the so-called new world order from a British prime minister who cannot deliver basic public services run by his own failing government."
Tony Blair, 5th January, 2002
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"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
David Rockefeller, Baden-Baden, Germany 1991
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"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller
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"We have before us the opportunity to forge for ourselves and for future generations a new world order, a world where the rule of law, not the rule of the jungle, governs the conduct of nations. When we are successful, and we will be, we have a real chance at this new world order, an order in which a credible United Nations can use its peacekeeping role to fulfill the promise and vision of the U.N.'s founders."
President George Bush, 1991
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"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation."
David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations
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"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."
Dr. Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference, Evians, France, 1991

 

[muir]

@Erlian @Lark

More quotes

These are not my words, i'm just examining history objectively

"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson."
- U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt in a letter written Nov. 21, 1933 to Colonel E. Mandell House
“If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.”
- Andrew Jackson

“The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.”
- Abraham Lincoln

We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans."
- Bill Clinton, USA Today on 3/11/93, page 2a
“It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”
- Henry Ford

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government."
- Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference in Evians, France, 1991

"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining super capitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
- Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets

“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
- David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 405

"It is the system of nationalist individualism that has to go....We are living in the end of the sovereign states....In the great struggle to evoke a Westernized World Socialism, contemporary governments may vanish....Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." - H.G. Wells, in his book, “The New World Order”, 1940

“Bankers own the earth; take it away from them but leave them with the power to create credit; and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again... If you want to be slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let the bankers control money and control credit.”
- Sir Josiah Stamp, Director, Bank of England, 1940.

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order."
- David Rockefeller

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."
- David Rockefeller, Bilderberg Meeting, June 1991 Baden, Germany

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependent on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." - Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

“Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws."
- Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

“I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. As a result of the war, corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands, and the Republic is destroyed. I feel at this moment more anxiety for the safety of my country than ever before, even in the midst of war.” –
Abraham Lincoln - In a letter written to William Elkin

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."
- Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, Time Magazine, July 20th, l992

“The money power preys on the nation in times of peace, and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes.” - Abraham Lincoln

“A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the Nation and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the world - no longer a Government of free opinion no longer a Government by conviction and vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of small groups of dominant men.... Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the U.S., in the field of commerce and manufacturing, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.” –
Woodrow Wilson - In The New Freedom (1913)

“The fact is that there is a serious danger of this country becoming a Pluto-democracy; that is, a sham republic with the real government in the hands of a small clique of enormously wealthy men, who speak through their money, and whose influence, even today, radiates to every corner of the United States.” - William McAdoo - President Wilson's national campaign vice-chairman, wrote in Crowded Years

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.” - Thomas Jefferson

“The system of banking [is] a blot left in all our Constitutions, which, if not covered, will end in their destruction... I sincerely believe that banking institutions are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity... is but swindling futurity on a large scale.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“... To take a single step beyond the boundaries thus specially drawn around the powers of Congress is to take possession of a boundless field of power, no longer susceptible of any definition. The incorporation of a bank, and the powers assumed by this bill [chartering the first Bank of the United States], have not, been delegated to the United States by the Constitution.”
- Thomas Jefferson - in opposition to the chartering of the first Bank of the United States (1791).

“We have stricken the (slave) shackles from four million human beings and brought all laborers to a common level not so much by the elevation of former slaves as by practically reducing the whole working population, white and black, to a condition of serfdom. While boasting of our noble deeds, we are careful to conceal the ugly fact that by an iniquitous money system we have nationalized a system of oppression which, though more refined, is not less cruel than the old system of chattel slavery.”
- Horace Greeley - (1811-1872) founder of the New York Tribune

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”
- Frederic Bastiat - (1801-1850) in Economic Sophisms#

“The powers of financial capitalism had (a) far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland; a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world.”
- Prof. Carroll Quigley in Tragedy and Hope

“In a small Swiss city sits an international organization so obscure and secretive....Control of the institution, the Bank for International Settlements, lies with some of the world's most powerful and least visible men: the heads of 32 central banks, officials able to shift billions of dollars and alter the course of economies at the stroke of a pen.”
- Keith Bradsher of the New York Times, August 5, 1995

“The Federal Reserve Bank of New York is eager to enter into close relationship with the Bank for International Settlements....The conclusion is impossible to escape that the State and Treasury Departments are willing to pool the banking system of Europe and America, setting up a world financial power independent of and above the Government of the United States....The United States under present conditions will be transformed from the most active of manufacturing nations into a consuming and importing nation with a balance of trade against it.”
- Rep. Louis McFadden - Chairman of the House Committee on Banking and Currency quoted in the New York Times (June 1930)

“Nothing did more to spur the boom in stocks than the decision made by the New York Federal Reserve bank, in the spring of 1927, to cut the rediscount rate. Benjamin Strong, Governor of the bank, was chief advocate of this unwise measure, which was taken largely at the behest of Montagu Norman of the Bank of England....At the time of the Banks action I warned of its consequences....I felt that sooner or later the market had to break.”
- Money baron Bernard Baruch in Baruch: The Public Years (1960)

“The Federal Reserve Bank is nothing but a banking fraud and an unlawful crime against civilization. Why? Because they "create" the money made out of nothing, and our Uncle Sap Government issues their "Federal Reserve Notes" and stamps our Government approval with NO obligation whatever from these Federal Reserve Banks, Individual Banks or National Banks, etc.”
- H.L. Birum, Sr., American Mercury, August 1957, p. 43

“[The] abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit.... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holdings illegal, as was done in the case of gold.... The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.... [This] is the shabby secret of the welfare statist's tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights.”
- Alan Greenspan in an article he wrote in 1966.

“History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance.” – James Madison


"I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
- General Douglas MacArthur

“In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press....They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers. "An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers."
- U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917

"The invisible Money Power is working to control and enslave mankind. It financed Communism, Fascism, Marxism, Zionism, Socialism. All of these are directed to making the United States a member of a World Government."
- American Mercury Magazine, December 1957, p. 92

"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."
- Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, "Coningsby, the New Generation", 1844

"I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over the last 49 years, they would move on Washington; they would not wait for an election....It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States!"
- George W. Malone, U.S. Senator (Nevada), speaking before Congress, 1957

"The United Nations will spearhead our efforts to manage the new conflicts (that afflict our world)....Yes the principles of the United Nations Charter are worth our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."
- General Colin Powell, 4/21/93, receiving the UN-USA Global Leadership Award

“The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities, states and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses... This little coterie...runs our government for their own selfish ends. It operates under cover of a self-created screen...seizes...our executive officers...legislative bodies...schools... courts...newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.”
- John F. Hylan, Mayor of New York, Mayor, 1918-1925

"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power--Political, Monetary, Intellectual, and Ecclesiastical."
- U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater, his book "No Apologies", 1964

“From the days of Spartacus, Weishaupt, Karl Marx, Trotski, Belacoon, Rosa Luxenberg and Ema Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last, this band of extraordinary personalities from the under- world of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
- Winston Churchill to the London press in 1922.

“The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans."
- British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876

"For some time I have been disturbed by the way the CIA has been diverted from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy making arm of the government."
- President Harry Truman

"The idea was that those who direct the overall conspiracy could use the differences in those two so-called ideologies [Marxism/fascism/socialism v. democracy/capitalism] to enable them [the Illuminati] to divide larger and larger portions of the human race into opposing camps so that they could be armed and then brainwashed into fighting and destroying each other."
- Myron Fagan

"From the earliest days, the Rothschilds appreciated the importance of proximity to politicians, the men who determined not only the extent of budget deficits but also the domestic and foreign policies..."
- Niall Ferguson

"By remaining behind the scenes, they (the Rothschilds) were able to avoid the brunt of public anger which was directed, instead, at the political figures which they largely controlled. This is a technique which has been practiced by financial manipulators ever since, and it is fully utilized by those who operate the Federal Reserve System today."
- G. Edward Griffin

"Lord Rothschild had access to all manner of leaders and experts. He was responsible only to the Prime Minister and answerable to neither the electorate nor the civil service chiefs."
- Derek Wilson

"The division of the United States into federations of equal force was decided long before the Civil War by the high financial powers of Europe. These bankers were afraid that the United States, if they remained in one block and as one nation, would attain economic and financial independence, which would upset their financial domination over the world. The voice of the Rothschilds prevailed… Therefore they sent their emissaries into the field to exploit the question of slavery and to open an abyss between the two sections of the Union."
- German chancellor Otto von Bismarck

"Throughout the first half of the nineteenth century, the (Rothschild) brothers conducted important transactions on behalf of the governments of England, France, Prussia, Austria, Belgium, Spain, Naples, Portugal, Brazil, various German states and smaller countries. They were the personal bankers of many of the crowned heads of Europe. They made large investments, through agents, in markets as distant as the United States, India, Cuba and Australia." - G. Edward Griffin

“The bank hath benefit of interest on all moneys which it creates out of nothing.”
- William Paterson, founder of the Bank of England, 1694.

“All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation.”
- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson.

“The money power denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes.”
- Democrat Presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan.

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."
- US President James A. Garfield


“This Federal Reserve Act establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Wilson) signs this bill the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalized.”
- Hon. Charles A. Lindbergh, Sr.

"Banks lend by creating credit. They create the means of payment out of nothing."
– Ralph M. Hawtrey, former Secretary of Treasury, England.

“The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled.”
- John K. Galbraith, in “Money: Whence it came, where it went”, p. 29.

“The banks do create money. They have been doing it for a long time, but they didn't quite realize it, and they did not admit it. Very few did. You will find it in all sorts of documents, financial textbooks, etc. But in the intervening years, and we must all be perfectly frank about these things, there has been a development of thought, until today I doubt very much whether you would get many prominent bankers to attempt to deny that banks create credit.”
- H. W. White, Chairman of the Associated Banks of New Zealand, to the New Zealand Monetary Commission, 1955.

“You have to choose [as a voter] between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government. And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold."
- George Bernard Shaw

"I have never seen more Senators express discontent with their jobs....I think the major cause is that, deep down in our hearts, we have been accomplices in doing something terrible and unforgivable to our wonderful country. Deep down in our heart, we know that we have given our children a legacy of bankruptcy. We have defrauded our country to get ourselves elected."
- John Danforth (R-Mo)

"We are in danger of being overwhelmed with irredeemable paper, mere paper, representing not gold nor silver; no sir, representing nothing but broken promises, bad faith, bankrupt corporations, cheated creditors and a ruined people."
- Daniel Webster

“Most Americans have no real understanding of the operations of the international moneylenders... the accounts of the Federal Reserve have never been audited. It operates outside the control of Congress and ... manipulates the credit of the United States”
- Sen. Barry Goldwater (R. –AZ)

“Nothing but widespread suffering will produce any effect on Congress... Our only safety is in pursuing a steady course of firm restriction - and I have no doubt that such a course will ultimately lead to restoration of the currency and the re-charter of the bank."
- Nicholas Biddle

“The death of Lincoln was a disaster for Christendom. There was no man in the United States great enough to wear his boots and the bankers went anew to grab the riches. I fear that foreign bankers with their craftiness and tortuous tricks will entirely control the exuberant riches of America and use it to systematically corrupt modern civilization. They will not hesitate to plunge the whole of Christendom into wars and chaos in order that the earth should become their inheritance."
- Otto von Bismarck

"There cannot be stable money within an environment dominated by ideologies hostile to the preservation of economic freedom."
- Ludwig von Mises

"The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it."
- John Kenneth Galbraith

"Of all the contrivances for cheating the laboring classes of mankind, none has been more effective than that which deludes them with paper money."
- Daniel Webster

"Every circulating FRN (Federal Reserve Note) represents a one dollar debt to the Federal Reserve System."
- Money Facts, House Banking and Currency Committee

"Neither paper currency nor deposits have value as commodities, intrinsically; a 'dollar' bill is just a piece of paper. Deposits are merely book entries."
- Modern Money Mechanics Workbook, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, 1975

"The governments alone are responsible for the spread of the superstitious awe with which the common man looks upon every bit of paper upon which the treasury or agencies which it controls have printed the magical words legal tender."
- Ludwig von Mises

"Those who create and issue money and credit direct the policies of government and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."
- Reginald McKenna, former Chancellor of Exchequer, England

"When you or I write a check there must be sufficient funds in our account to cover the check, but when the Federal Reserve writes a check there is no bank deposit on which that check is drawn. When the Federal Reserve writes a check, it is creating money."
- Putting It Simply, Boston Federal Reserve Bank

"How pale is the art of sorcerers, witches, and conjurors when compared with that of the government's Treasury Department!"
- Ludwig von Mises

"We have, in this country, one of the most corrupt institutions the world has ever known. I refer to the Federal Reserve Board. This evil institution has impoverished the people of the United States and has practically bankrupted our government. It has done this through the corrupt practices of the moneyed vultures who control it."
- Congressman Louis T. McFadden in 1932

"If you increase the quantity of money, you bring about the lowering of the purchasing power of the monetary unit."
- Ludwig von Mises

"Money is the most important subject intellectual persons can investigate and reflect upon. It is so important that our present civilization may collapse unless it is widely understood and its defects remedied very soon."
- Robert H. Hemphill, former credit manager, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta

"Thus, our national circulating medium is now at the mercy of loan transactions of banks, which lend, not money, but promises to supply money they do not possess."
- Irving Fisher, 100% Money#

"Without the confidence factor, many believe a paper money system is liable to collapse eventually."
- Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, Gold, p. 10

 

[muir]

A logical look at why the actions of the zionists was racist

The zionists have taken the european ashkenazis and have moved them and placed them in lands that were already occupied thereby violently displacing the indigenous people for example in the nakba

Some in the west seem content with this action but as i will prove with simple logic their thinking is racist

The zionists have taken one people without a homeland and have given them a homeland but in doing so they have dsiplaced another people and deprived them of their homeland

Giving one group of humans a homeland but displacing another group is not progress

If a person chooses one group over another then that is racism as they are arguing that one group is superior and more deserving of support than another; they are essentially sayin that the value of an ashkenazi life is more valuable than that of a palestinean

The zionists are therefore racist because they have favoured the ashkenazis over the palestineans

I am amazed that various zionsts in the west cannot understand this simple logic; presumably if they are unable to process things on that level of cogniscence then perhaps they also cannot or rather will not through self delusion acknowledge that their racial favouratism is racism

And yet they have the bare faced hypocrisy and chutzpah to call people who point this out 'racist'!!!!

Talk about orwellian doublethink

 

[muir]

Moral Relatavism and Satanism

Firstly lets demystify the word 'satanism' before the left brain dominant people get all upset about the discussion taking a metaphysical turn

In the occult there are different views of what 'satanism' is. But for the purpose of this particular post i am going to use the word 'devil' or 'satan' to mean anything that roots us into the concrete world of the 5 senses and prevents connection with the spirit.

So for example marxism is strongly anti-religious and calls itself a 'materialist' ideology. The aim of the marxists is to ultimately destroy christianity and the modern atheist movement is one wing of marxism.

However science is breaking new ground regarding the nature of reality and the possibilities are still open that as the mystics have always told us our body is merely a vehicle for consciousness which exists with or without the 'physical' body. The body is simply an avatar through which consciousness can experience this holographic reality. But anyway leaving that aside...

Satanism is a rejection of spirit. If spirit is the ineffable, the intangible, that beyond the world of matter then satanism is about rooting people down in the physical, carnal and animal level of being.

This is why there is always such a strong sexual element to satanism because it wants to believe that we are no better than animals. Of course animals like monkeys and wolves live in packs and there is a hierarchy where the others submit to an alpha male and female.

This is the mindset of the satanist. They believe in a nietzchian superman who rules over everyone else through their 'will to power' and this behaviour can be seen in occult groups up and down the country as people vie to be the baddest animal in the pit.

There are two new branches that then by default spring forth from this mentality tree. If the trunk core of your mindset is that the only thing that matters is to rise to power and to dominate others then there are two major implications for this.

First of all there is a moral implication whereby any sense of fairplay becomes discarded because doing the right thing becomes subserviant to the prime directive which is gaining dominance and superiority. This effectively means that the law of the jungle applies and that any deceitful, cunning or cruel behaviour is justified to acheive the end of dominance.

The second major implication of this mentality is nihilism because nothing else matters in a game where power is the sole focus. This mentality then brings a CYNICISM because the person acting only through competition sees all human behaviour through the same lens; in effect they believe that everyone is playing the same game as themselves. They cannot believe that someone would do something selfless for another and they look always for an alterior motive.

Needless to say this mentality breeds a culture of suspicion and manipulation

It should be fairly onbvious by now to any reader that the people this mentality appeals to the most are PSYCHOPATHS who feel no guilt or remorse and who can lie with conviction in order to rise and gain more influence.

Satanism is a philosophical justification for playing a game of self advancement regardless of the cost to others; it is the creed of the psychopath

Anyone who has been following the news will have seen the story of the banker in hong kong who recently butchered two women in his flat in a scene reminiscent of the novel and film 'american psycho'. Of course to myself and some of the other posters on this forum who have been ringing the alarm bell about the bankers this is no suprise to hear of such things nor is it a suprise to hear about the rash of banker 'suicides' as the system tries to cover it tracks involving for example one banker shooting himself repeatedly in the head with a nail gun (interesting way to commit 'suicide').

A psychopath wants to gain power and it will seek institutions and organisations through whcih it may rise and corporations and the financial sector offer them the perfect playground where their heartlessness is actually rewarded. In fact an FBI criminal profiler profiled the model of the modern corporation and declared it to be psychopathic because like a human psycopath it lacks the mechanism whereby it can take into account the externalities of its actions such as human suffering or damage to the enviornment; of course the truth is always the first victim of the psychopath who must lie to mask their true game which is repulsive to humans who operate from their heart

The psychopath understands from a young age that they are different from the society around them. If they come from a poor background they are likely to end up in jail but if they come from a well-to-do background they are likely to achieve highly and gain a powerful position in society from where they can cause maximum damage.

Moral relatavism allows an obfuscation of what the human heart naturally knows to be abhorent. Humans know instinctively that to rob and rape and kill is wrong and that is natural law.

The psychopath has no recognition or respect for natural law and creates its own moral justifications for its actions deeming the moral restraint of regular people to be a 'weakness'

Psychopaths recognise other psychopaths and they tend to be drawn to the same organisations so over time they cluster at the top of these organisations which then wreak havoc on society. If people think the hong kong banker is an anomoly they should think again; potential brokers and traders are given psychometric testing to ensure they have no empathy and are better able to exploit the public and extract profit from them. This then leads to the first problem mentioned above where morality dissapears in order to pursue the goal of power which is also expressed as the pursuit of profit. An example of this in action would be the deceitful behaviours within ENRON where the public were being fleeced like sheep by ammoral psychopaths

Humans have always had clubs where they tend to mix with people of the same socio-economic grouping as themselves; an exclusive occult club was portrayed in kubricks film 'eyes wide shut'; another psychopath club is shown in the gorno horror film 'the hostel'

One such club that has been around a long time and offers its members an opportunity for networking and greater social influence is freemasonry. Freemasonry has its own evaluation method like corporate psychometric testing, in that it assesses its members though a series of degrees representing a number of different things for example the 360 degree circulation of the sun and the 33 degrees or vertebra of the human spine

Freemasonry has been implicated in various revolutionary movements such as the french revolution which led to the 'terror' aftewards as people were butchered and the bolshevik revolution after which many millions were butchered

Freemasonry uses at its core qabalism. The flipside of the qabalistic tree of life is the qliphotic realm of shells and husks and indeed the psychopath devoid of connection to spirit is indeed a shell of a human

Psychopaths gravitate towards these occult groups which not only develop a pack dynamic based around the most cunning and ruthless alpha initiate but they also thrive off the justifications these groups give for the games they want to play with society

Psychopaths seem to despise human for their connection to spirit and it becomes almost an obsession of the dark occultists to try and crush the human spirit and dismember people from their spirit source

The psychopathic control network that has embedded itself at the top of human society in all the major institutions and most of the secret societies seeks to create a world in its image. This is a vision of a matarialist world full of competition, lustful sexual dominance of all people and gratuitous fear inducing violence designed to shut down the ratonal mind and keep people in their left brain which is responsible for our sense of self; fear increases our sense of self as a seperate being by reinforcing a sense of otherness to the object of our fear

The right hemisphere of our brain is responsible for unifed feelings of oneness and of creative and intutive thought and insight; this represents when combined with our logical left brain a powerful faculty that empowers us to not blindly follow authority and to realise our potential as people

Satanists might claim that is their nietzchean desire but if the perceived 'potential' of an individual is to control other individuals then that is a problem for society

The black magician Aleister Crolwey said 'do as thou wilt' to his followers. Apologists for his philosophy say that he says every human being is a star that has its own trajectory that is intended for it in life and that a person should live out that intention but what Crowley is really implying is that the trajectory of somepeople is to dominate and the trajectory of others is to be dominated; his creed is that of the predator

This is clearly an anti-democratic view

Plato who has had a large effect on occult societies wrote a piece called 'the republic' in which he said the ideal society should be run by a small elite of what he called 'philosopher-kings'. This is the vision that the psychopathic, satanists have for our society.

These satanists use as their symbol the pyramid which represents centralised power with themselves at the top of the pyramid ruling over society. They see themselves as the high priests of matter

We are entering the astrological age of aquarius where knowledge will flow freely to people like water watering the parched earth of their minds creating a new enlightenment. If people are empowered by new knowledge they will not stand to be ruled anymore by the psychopathic control network.

The psychopathic control network knows this is going to happen and marx outlined a revolutionary process in his writings. The psychopathic control system recognises that in order to maintain control over the general populace it must impose a new system which can hold human consciousness in a stranglehold.

Orwell learned about this plan while working in the BBC and he wrote a book warning the public of this threat to their liberty. The plan to create a big brother state is now well underway.

The satanist, marxist vision for the world is one where power is concentrated in the hands of a handful of people (the occult psychopaths) and as we all know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

In order to transition us to this new world order they are systematically destroying all vestiges of the old order.

This however offers an informed public the opportunity to forge for itself its own new order where the public are enlightened and empowered and able to have a direct say in the running of their communities at every level.

if we aquiesce to a centralised global government it will use the latest cutting edge technology to keep us locked in a technocratic surveillance prison where free-thought will be seen as a dangerous and subversive thing requiring execution

Put simply we are at a crossroads

 

[Erlian]

You say there are no counter arguments but you are dead wrong...you are assuming that

I assume that because you've never given them. You, with your huge amount of information, have never given one counter argument. Trying to give counter arguments and then refuting said counter arguments logically is proof to me. You never tried to do that. All your proof is not proof to me. For example, with your list of quotes. My counter argument would be "Maybe he meant something else". You've never countered that. Maybe they were really talking about a new world order, but not necessarily a bad one or one where only few have all power.
In the video of Kofi Annan for example it was asked how one could trust the UN after they did bad things (intentionally or unintentionally?). Kofi Annan answered that the UN is controlled by all the memberstates. I agree with him, what he says makes sense. If the UN made mistakes all memberstates should be held accountable. You'd say (would you?): Maybe all representatives of said memberstates are corrupted or pressured by globalists. I'll say: Maybe they aren't!
It's not the content (although it looks ridiculous, I'm willing to consider even weird stuff). It's the way you present the content that doesn't make sense to me.

There is more to history that we are told in the offical narrative taught by the victors and if we are to try and develop a relationship with the truth then we should seek it

Fully agreed. There is more to history than what we know. But that doesn't mean there must be more to history and it also doesn't mean that victors always lie and manipulate.

We are taught the nazis tried to exterminate the jews but the nazis were transferring jews to the holy land in the 'transfer agreement'; it only stopped because of the jews declaring war on germany. But the point is the nazis were not trying to destroy ther jews they were just trying to get them out of germany because they believed they were subverting and destroying their culture, their economy and their identity as a people

Wow wow wow. I made a screenshot there
You realise I can use this quote to discredit you as credible source anywhere else? Whether it's true or not, people don't like hearing that. Earlier said I wasn't so much bothered by your content, but rather by the way you present it. This content I'm bothered with.
To my perception it surely made you look less reliable. At first I thought you had far away some common sense, but now it's getting ridiculous.
Early in the discussion you said you don't care what I think about you. That's a good attitude, but if you want to convince people (I assume you're trying this, because you keep showering us in evidence) you need to appear credible to them. You're not appearing credible to me at all.

Whether or not you think the germans had a point regarding that is a matter for another debate but you could say that there are parallels today in the US and UK where our economies have been sabotaged (eg by fed money printing), our culture has been abotaged through cultural marxism and critical theory and our identity and soveriegnty is under threat

How is critical theory bad? Aren't you critical of the official narrative? I think we should be critical. We should be critical of governments and media. We should be critical of people with power and I'm glad we are. I'm glad you are. I'm also glad I'm critical of your theories. You don't seem to be very critical of your own theory though, that bothers me.

 

[muir]

I assume that because you've never given them. You, with your huge amount of information, have never given one counter argument. Trying to give counter arguments and then refuting said counter arguments logically is proof to me. You never tried to do that. All your proof is not proof to me. For example, with your list of quotes. My counter argument would be "Maybe he meant something else". You've never countered that. Maybe they were really talking about a new world order, but not necessarily a bad one or one where only few have all power.

As you gain more information those kinds of gaps fill in and you can see the picture more clearly

When you know the context then you know what a person meant

You wanted evidence i'm providing that, don't now complain that i am not playing devils advocate with my own argument; i have already evolved my argument from another position...there is no point me going backwards to what i now know is wrong if the information is not pointing that way

In the video of Kofi Annan for example it was asked how one could trust the UN after they did bad things (intentionally or unintentionally?). Kofi Annan answered that the UN is controlled by all the memberstates. I agree with him, what he says makes sense. If the UN made mistakes all memberstates should be held accountable. You'd say (would you?): Maybe all representatives of said memberstates are corrupted or pressured by globalists. I'll say: Maybe they aren't!
It's not the content (although it looks ridiculous, I'm willing to consider even weird stuff). It's the way you present the content that doesn't make sense to me.

Considering the limited space in which i'm trying to work i think i've got some pretty good stuff over

The impression i am building of you is that you are less interested in establishing the true nature of the New world order and more in getting into some philosophical knot tying exercise and i'll be honest straight off the bat that i am not interested in that

If you knew a person was coming armed to your household to harm you and your family and to steal your stuff then would you sit about philosophising about the nature of the truth or would you act?

Well i'm telling you that there are armed people stealing your stuff and causing you and others harm through a variety of ways

Fully agreed. There is more to history than what we know. But that doesn't mean there must be more to history and it also doesn't mean that victors always lie and manipulate.

So get more information and you will be more informed

You seem to be tied up in classroom philosophical ramblings which are messing with your head to such a degree that you cannot see what is right under your nose

Wow wow wow. I made a screenshot there
You realise I can use this quote to discredit you as credible source anywhere else?Whether it's true or not, people don't like hearing that.

Why would you want to discredit someone who is telling the truth?

Go and frame your screenshot and stick it on your bathroom wall for all i care

But if you want to behave like an adult then go and look into the 'transfer agreement' and you'll find that hitler was paying for jews to be transferred from germany to the middle east

Earlier said I wasn't so much bothered by your content, but rather by the way you present it. This content I'm bothered with.

Ok this makes more sense...you are more interested in style than substance

Well i am more interested in substance not style

I am only interested in discussing the substance; if you do not want to discuss the substance then please leave this thread because you will only fill it up with vacuous nothingness

To my perception it surely made you look less reliable. At first I thought you had far away some common sense, but now it's getting ridiculous.
Early in the discussion you said you don't care what I think about you. That's a good attitude, but if you want to convince people (I assume you're trying this, because you keep showering us in evidence) you need to appear credible to them. You're not appearing credible to me at all.

I don't care how i appear to you

I am giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are mature enough to deal with this information in a mature fashion and that if you are indeed interested as you appear to be then i am trusting that you will have the werewithal to look into the information to gain greater understanding

How is critical theory bad?

Critical theory offers no solution, it is only interested in destroying the status quo in order to replace it with a more draconian system

Aren't you critical of the official narrative? I think we should be critical. We should be critical of governments and media. We should be critical of people with power and I'm glad we are. I'm glad you are. I'm also glad I'm critical of your theories. You don't seem to be very critical of your own theory though, that bothers me.

We should be critical but we should do it with both eyes open and with full awareness of the implications

We should also be careful about pulling down the old order without knowing what we are going to replace it with because there are dark forces that will step into the void that is created if we do not take initiative ourselves as a community

 

[Erlian]

You wanted evidence i'm providing that, don't now complain that i am not playing devils advocate with my own argument; i have already evolved my argument from another position...there is no point me going backwards to what i now know is wrong if the information is not pointing that way

If the amount of information wasn't so sizable, I'd be able to provide counter arguments myself. But I don't have all the information and your claims are so huge. Don't you have a tiny conspiracy that you can proof without linking it to any other cases? Then the amount of information is easier for me to process.

The impression i am building of you is that you are less interested in establishing the true nature of the New world order and more in getting into some philosophical knot tying exercise and i'll be honest straight off the bat that i am not interested in that

Thanks for being honest. I agree with you. I'd word it differently: I'm not very interested in conspiracy theories and more in finding something that actually makes sense.

If you knew a person was coming armed to your household to harm you and your family and to steal your stuff then would you sit about philosophising about the nature of the truth or would you act?
Well i'm telling you that there are armed people stealing your stuff and causing you and others harm through a variety of ways

I'd check if he's coming. I look outside and don't see him. So I wonder why it was claimed that there was armed person coming and why that information was shared, because clearly it was wrong. There's no man outside.
He might come in the future, but I don't know that. No point in doing something about a future we know nothing about.

You seem to be tied up in classroom philosophical ramblings which are messing with your head to such a degree that you cannot see what is right under your nose

You seem to have missed some basic philosophy causing you to see things that aren't there. (Just turning things around)

But if you want to behave like an adult then go and look into the 'transfer agreement' and you'll find that hitler was paying for jews to be transferred from germany to the middle east

I'm not going to research that, because I believe you. It makes sense. Hitler probably first tried a more socially acceptable way of getting rid of jews, but later he found it ineffective or inefficient. About declaring war on Germany, it's not like the jews were massing an army to invade Germany or anything.

Critical theory offers no solution, it is only interested in destroying the status quo in order to replace it with a more draconian system

I don't think critical theory wants to destroy. I agree that it doesn't offer any solutions, that's a glaring flaw to which I fully agree. But not destroying. If I'd be critical of anything it's change. Change is often unnecessary. Many politicians and managers want to invoke change just for the sake of changing. I think that's bad. But that hasn't got anything to do with critical theory.

Ok this makes more sense...you are more interested in style than substance
Well i am more interested in substance not style
I am only interested in discussing the substance; if you do not want to discuss the substance then please leave this thread because you will only fill it up with vacuous nothingness

Correct. I love analysing discussions and see where they go wrong. A lot of problems in the world originate from miscommunication, thus I like to find and learn about miscommunications and then try to solve them.
Also I like to give people a shot and convincing me. If a jehovah witness knocks my door, I'll give him lots of time to convince me. As I'm not easy to convince (you've noticed that) I'll help him by explaining how he can convince me, like I explained to you. I really want to be convinced. That means I've learned something new. I'm telling you how to convince me, but I'm not going to do it for you, especially if I don't see the value of it.
In the beginning of this discussion I got some personal messages that said I shouldn't bother arguing with you. That there was no point with you. I don't think like that. I want to give everyone a chance. I've never said you were wrong in any of my comments. I honestly want to be convinced. Now I'm acting all like I'm super generous and stuff. Maybe I'm not. I'm still giving you a hard time. Maybe I shouldn't act like I'm here to be convinced, because it's quite hard to convince me.

 

[muir]

If the amount of information wasn't so sizable, I'd be able to provide counter arguments myself. But I don't have all the information and your claims are so huge. Don't you have a tiny conspiracy that you can proof without linking it to any other cases? Then the amount of information is easier for me to process.

Why would you want to argue for the sake of arguing?

Thanks for being honest. I agree with you. I'd word it differently: I'm not very interested in conspiracy theories and more in finding something that actually makes sense.

No what you seem to be looking for is an argument

I'd check if he's coming. I look outside and don't see him. So I wonder why it was claimed that there was armed person coming and why that information was shared, because clearly it was wrong. There's no man outside.
He might come in the future, but I don't know that. No point in doing something about a future we know nothing about.

No YOU don't know about the future but that doesn't mean that some people don't know whats happening and is going to happen

You seem to have missed some basic philosophy causing you to see things that aren't there. (Just turning things around)

You came into the thread with some strong opinion and i was happy to engage and share some information

But you're providing no evidence

All you are doing is twisting and turning but you have nothing, no information, no evidence, nothing but smoke

I'm not going to research that, because I believe you. It makes sense. Hitler probably first tried a more socially acceptable way of getting rid of jews, but later he found it ineffective or inefficient. About declaring war on Germany, it's not like the jews were massing an army to invade Germany or anything.

I've already explained it was through sanctions. If you'd read the newspaper article i posted you'd have seen what the story was

I don't think critical theory wants to destroy.

Then you're dead wrong and you don't understand what the purpose of the frankfurt school was

I agree that it doesn't offer any solutions, that's a glaring flaw to which I fully agree. But not destroying. If I'd be critical of anything it's change. Change is often unnecessary. Many politicians and managers want to invoke change just for the sake of changing. I think that's bad. But that hasn't got anything to do with critical theory.

Critical theory is about undermining capitalist society on the road to a marxist global government; that was the aim of the frankfurt school...to get into the midns of the young and to turn them against their own system which is why there was the 'counter culture' movement of the 1960's

Correct. I love analysing discussions and see where they go wrong. A lot of problems in the world originate from miscommunication, thus I like to find and learn about miscommunications and then try to solve them.

There has been no misscommunication here

Also I like to give people a shot and convincing me. If a jehovah witness knocks my door, I'll give him lots of time to convince me. As I'm not easy to convince (you've noticed that) I'll help him by explaining how he can convince me, like I explained to you. I really want to be convinced. That means I've learned something new. I'm telling you how to convince me, but I'm not going to do it for you, especially if I don't see the value of it.

I'm not interested in convincing you in this conversation; I've already achieved what i set out to do

In the beginning of this discussion I got some personal messages that said I shouldn't bother arguing with you. That there was no point with you. I don't think like that. I want to give everyone a chance. I've never said you were wrong in any of my comments. I honestly want to be convinced. Now I'm acting all like I'm super generous and stuff. Maybe I'm not. I'm still giving you a hard time. Maybe I shouldn't act like I'm here to be convinced, because it's quite hard to convince me.

Yes i am aware of those people

One of which got very catty with me in a thread and she attacked me and has been trying to smack talk me behind my back since; i know who she is

But this discussion is only a vehicle for the transferance of information; who gets the information is upto fate. Maybe you'll assimilate it maybe you won't but you are not the only person reading this thread

So the information is there; do with it what you want

 

[Erlian]

Why would you want to argue for the sake of arguing?
No what you seem to be looking for is an argument

I believe we all gain knowledge by arguing, thus I argue. Or discuss. Or debate. Or whatever you like to call it. I won't make it personal or get emotional, that gets in the way.
Conflicts interest me, because it's a test between two things. Conflicts teach you something. Who or what is stronger? I don't like being in conflicts, but I love solving them.
In our discussion neither of the parties was convinced by the other. That disappoints me, because the conflict is not resolved. But sometimes that happens and one has to agree to disagree.

You came into the thread with some strong opinion and i was happy to engage and share some information
But you're providing no evidence
All you are doing is twisting and turning but you have nothing, no information, no evidence, nothing but smoke

Yup. I have no evidence, because I'm taking the easy road. I make no claims. Claims require evidence. If I don't make any claims, I don't need evidence. I'm being that lazy and simple.
The only claims I made were on philosophical topics, but you are not interested to discuss those (as is your right).

I've already explained it was through sanctions. If you'd read the newspaper article i posted you'd have seen what the story was

I actually read the newspaper article. I don't think it disproves my interpretation of events or proves yours. It totally doesn't prove my interpretation and it also doesn't disprove yours. It proves maybe only that the Germans wanted to get rid of the jews.

Then you're dead wrong and you don't understand what the purpose of the frankfurt school was
Critical theory is about undermining capitalist society on the road to a marxist global government; that was the aim of the frankfurt school...to get into the midns of the young and to turn them against their own system which is why there was the 'counter culture' movement of the 1960's

I did not know about the origins of critical theory. I've had a course of philosophy of science. One of the four views we discussed was critical theory. I didn't learn anything about destorying there. Generally science in itself isn't about destroying.

 

[muir]

I believe we all gain knowledge by arguing, thus I argue. Or discuss. Or debate. Or whatever you like to call it. I won't make it personal or get emotional, that gets in the way.
Conflicts interest me, because it's a test between two things. Conflicts teach you something. Who or what is stronger? I don't like being in conflicts, but I love solving them.
In our discussion neither of the parties was convinced by the other. That disappoints me, because the conflict is not resolved. But sometimes that happens and one has to agree to disagree.

There was no debate

I posted a load of information, you did not contest it, you just fell into the relativism sinkhole

I'm happy to share information and i'm happy to hear other peoples information and if i disagree with it i am happy to debate it

This discussion has been raging since well before you came onto the forum and won't be resolved until enough people in society understand certain things about whats going on...it's bigger than you and its bigger than me and as time goes on more and more peope will be discussing these issues and seeking answers to the changes they are seeing occur around them

This discussion has not just taken place in this thread but across a range of threads looking at different aspects of the same thing...the same process

if you are genuinly interested in seeking greater understanding then there is a gold mine of information on this forum. There are a number of threads by a number of people covering a range of topics packed full with information

It's all there for the curious to mine

Yup. I have no evidence, because I'm taking the easy road. I make no claims. Claims require evidence. If I don't make any claims, I don't need evidence. I'm being that lazy and simple.
The only claims I made were on philosophical topics, but you are not interested to discuss those (as is your right).

A thread dedicated to philospohy would be the best place for that

But trying to tell someone that they are not seeing something that they are seeing is not going to endear you to the person you are talking to

if you want more evidence of the 'claims' i and all the people i have quoted and posted clips of including: presidents, politicians, professors, economists, journalists, military people, intelligence people etc etc then there are other threads that are there to provide the pieces to the puzzle for anyone who wants to put it together

II actually read the newspaper article. I don't think it disproves my interpretation of events or proves yours. It totally doesn't prove my interpretation and it also doesn't disprove yours. It proves maybe only that the Germans wanted to get rid of the jews.

Once again you haven't said what your interpretation is...

Also if you want to give my 'interpretation' a fair heraing then you'd need to look into the areas i mentioned deliberately to be doorways to further exploration of the issues such as: the 'transfer agreement', the 'balfour declaration', 'zionism', 'cultural marxism' and so on

II did not know about the origins of critical theory. I've had a course of philosophy of science. One of the four views we discussed was critical theory. I didn't learn anything about destorying there. Generally science in itself isn't about destroying.

Ok...ok there have been some tensions in the thread but let's just put that behind us

Do you understand that your university professor has limitations on what he/she can teach you? There are guidelines and anything beyond them is beyond the pale and will draw fire from certain quarters

For example prof scholomo sand had to wait until he had aquired his chair at tel aviv university before he could start talking publically about his views or else he would not have got his job; he has talks available to listen to on youtube. He's a brave guy and a true maverick who is not afraid to go against the grain

So you understand that if your prof said the wrong thing they would lose their job because there are certain parameters in institutions?

Those universities are there to mould minds

The globalists have invested heavily in them for example i mentioned the rockefellers and they even have an entire university naed after them!

They create 'foundations' through which they channel money into causes as a form of bribery for example they fund teachers unions and students unions and so on and that money has strings attached

The origins and nature of critical theory are masked from the student...this then deprives them of the wider context within which that is taking place

Context is everything

We're told that the germans just suddenly turned on the jews but that is not the wider context. the wider context that makes senss of that hostility is provided by understadning things like the balfour declaration, the role of political zionism and the role of cultural marxism within german society as well as the rise of communism

Once you understand all that then the nazi position of going ultra-nationalist and obsessively pushing the german identity starts to make more sense because it is possible to see it as a reaction to a perceived threat

if we do not understand these processes then how are we to learn from history in order to prevent the same mistakes happening?

because at the moment when i look around at the world i'm seeing all the same mistakes being made that lead to world war 2 and it's a bit alarming

 

[Erlian]

Once again you haven't said what your interpretation is...

Hitler probably first tried a more socially acceptable way of getting rid of jews, but later he found it ineffective or inefficient.

Probably at first he already wanted to exterminate them, but didn't because that would not keep him in power.
Later when he got more and more power, he could switch to less socially accepted ways. Also if he didn't want to exterminate them right away, he might've radicalised when he gained more and more power. Power corrupts.

We're told that the germans just suddenly turned on the jews but that is not the wider context. the wider context that makes senss of that hostility is provided by understadning things like the balfour declaration, the role of political zionism and the role of cultural marxism within german society as well as the rise of communism

I think it's because of anti-semitism that was widespread in Europe. They were blamed for the economic bad times (Stereotype jew is rich). Obviously they didn't suddenly turn on them. Hitler, for one, grew up in Vienna at times when anti-semitism was normal. And he wasn't the only future nazi to grow up in such conditions. Because the anti-semitism was already strong inside Hitler (and it only grew after WWI) he wanted to exterminate them.
I feel like we're agreeing here, but wording it differently. I looked back to your initial claim that sparked my interest:

We are taught the nazis tried to exterminate the jews but the nazis were transferring jews to the holy land in the 'transfer agreement'
...
But the point is the nazis were not trying to destroy ther jews they were just trying to get them out of germany

They seriously hated jews. They were trying to get rid of them in any way possible. Rather destroying or exterminating, but because that was socially unacceptable they first transfered them.
If Hitler started exterminating jews when he got to power in 1933, he wouldn't have been able to build the economy that he did.

Once you understand all that then the nazi position of going ultra-nationalist and obsessively pushing the german identity starts to make more sense because it is possible to see it as a reaction to a perceived threat

Nah, really it was because Hitler was a diehard anti-semitist and so were many other nazis, Germans and Europeans at that time. The zionist sanctions followed the anti-semitism, not the other way around. As is clearly shown by the newspaper article that you shared.

This smaller subtopic about nazis is much easier for me to talk about, because I can actually research the information and I already know something about it.

Do you understand that your university professor has limitations on what he/she can teach you? There are guidelines and anything beyond them is beyond the pale and will draw fire from certain quarters
So you understand that if your prof said the wrong thing they would lose their job because there are certain parameters in institutions?

I don't think they'll be punished by doing so. If they teach that stuff, students will find it weird. Media will pick it up and tell the world. The professor would be ridiculed, dropping student admissions. This interpretation doesn't point your or my way. Students might be brainwashed, media corrupt or they might not. But I think it's unlikely that they are not allowed to do so because of guidelines or anyone who controls it. Professors here have quite a lot of freedom in what they teach.

because at the moment when i look around at the world i'm seeing all the same mistakes being made that lead to world war 2 and it's a bit alarming

Wanna bet? I'll bet you there's no new world war within 10 years.

 

[muir]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-for-the-nazi-march-into-europe-9845345.html

[h=1]Vladimir Putin suggests Britain and France were responsible for the Nazi march into Europe[/h]

[h=3]Putin is reported to have said that historians attempt to 'hush up' the 1938 Munich Agreement
[/h]
Russian president Vladimir Putin has suggested that Britain and France were responsible for the Nazi’s march into Europe.


Putin is reported to have said that historians attempt to “hush up” the 1938 Munich Agreement, in which Britain and France agreed to Adolf Hitler’s occupation of Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland.
It led to the carving up of Poland and other Eastern European countries at the start of the Second World War. The non-aggression treaty saw Poland virtually disappeared from the map, 20,000 Polish officers and intellectual executed by the Soviet secret police, and the killing of three million Jewish people in Poland as a result of the Holocaust.
The Telegraph reported that on Wednesday Mr Putin told a meeting of young historians in Moscow that Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister at the time, had “waved a piece of paper and said, 'I've brought you peace' when he returned to London after the talks.”
The comments were recorded in a Kremlin transcript

 

[muir]

Probably at first he already wanted to exterminate them, but didn't because that would not keep him in power.
Later when he got more and more power, he could switch to less socially accepted ways. Also if he didn't want to exterminate them right away, he might've radicalised when he gained more and more power. Power corrupts.

I think that not all nazis were thinking along the same lines

There would have been a number of different ideas of what they wanted to do with the jews

Historically jews have faced expulsions and pogroms and what i'm saying is that the nazis were not bent on a pogrom; they were also pursuing the option of expulsions

Concerning the concentration camps that form a nightmare vision in the public consciousness, I don't know to what extent they were deliberate extermination camps before the 'final solution'

For example to our shame the british made concentration camps in the boer war fought over resources. The de beers diamond company backed by rothschild money was central to the conflict. The british placed all the boer women and children into concentration camps as a way to deter the boer men who were out wild camping from continuing their guerilla war

Once war had started the germans interred anyone they perceived to be enemies of the state and British and the US americans did the same with the americans for example locking up japanese people on US soil

The war then brought food shortages and shortages of medicine and so on. In fact Germany made its suicide attack on russia towards stalingrad because it desperately needed to oil fields in that area for its army to function. Attacking russia is historically the death knell for anyone stupid enough to ignore the lessons of history.

The corporations assisted germany with IBM providing the computing machines that recorded the details of jews taken to the camps.

The fuel additive the lufwaffe needed to fly their bombers was sold by a US corporation who shipped it from their london depot; the fuel additive was then put into german bombers who then flew over and bombed london from where the additive came from!!

The father of the two bush presidents (prescott bush) was implicated in assisting the fudning of the germans through his bank

The warburg banking family had two brothers; one of which managed the german branch and the other was in the US and helped set up the federal reserve

War profiteers don't care about nationalities or people, they literally feed off death and destruction. They don't see people they see dollar signs

So anyway once the jews were interred Germany had the choice of either feeding its limited food supplies to its front line troops involved in desperate fighting on two fronts or of giving food to the interred jews who it blamed for the whole mess (ie for them losing world war 1 due to the secret pact between the zionists and the british government to bring the US into the war on britains side in return for palestine..this is known as the balfour declaration)

The starvation of the jews in the concentration camps was a crime against humanity but when you look at the context you can begin to see a sequence of events that once triggered was only going to lead to a massive tragedy for everyone except the bankers because once people are fighting for their very existence then they don't fight by queensbury rules anymore; its that sequence of events...that cycle of anger and hate that needs to be averted in the future

I think it's because of anti-semitism that was widespread in Europe. They were blamed for the economic bad times (Stereotype jew is rich).

Well that's too black and white

many of the jews that suffered and/or died in the conflict (and millions from all countries suffered and died as well not just jews) were totally innocent people who were living out normal lives making an honest living and raising their families in peace; but the jews at the top such as the rothschilds were upto their neck in intrigue and financial and political double dealing for example having funded both sides on numerous wars through european history

Anti-semitism is first of all the wrong word to use because the ashkenazis are not semites. This has been proven by geneticists. they were khazars who converted to judaism. So lets ditch the word 'anti-semitism' from the get-go. The palestineans are semites and the treatment they receive from modern day israel could be called 'anti-semitism'

The ashkenazis were often the subject of deep suspicion from their neighbours throughout history and there are some reasons for that. Christians and muslims could not commit 'usury' so european leaders (monarchs) would have a jewish ghetto in their cities where jewish merchants would live who would handle cash transactions. In trade it is useful to boorw money and also to insure against loss for example if your ship sinks and the cargo is lost.

Now this is rank hypocrisy on the part of christian leaders...its a kind of work around of christian laws.

But anti-usuary laws had a good reason because usury does lead to debt slavery; these tensions arising from such matters led to shakespeares play 'the merchant of venice' where a jewish merchant calls for a nobleman to face the punishment for defulting on payment which is to pay with a pound of flesh (ouch!). The King or doge or whatever however gives the nobleman a free pass because he is an aristocrat.

So these tensions go way back and even before shakespearean time. For example when bernhard of clairvaux whipped up crusading hysteria amongst a rabble of poor people by offering them salvation in return for crusade (christian jihad) the lowly band of poor people and released criminals marched into the rhine valley and promptly attacked jewish communites! So clearly there was antagonism a thouand years ago.

yes jews were rich...because they could commit usury. Jesus in the bible attacks the money changers because they are controlling the half shekle money supply and are ripping off the worshipeprs at the temple; this was a morality tale telling people about the evils of money manipulation and it then seeped into the european culture

The jews in Germany however centuries later had left russia where they had been kicked out by the tzar; the 'protocals of the elders of zion' are said by some people to have been a hoax created by russian secret police to create anti-jewish feeling but because the protocals have clearly been followed historically by someone there are many who to this day believe the protocals to be real

Alongside the knights templar was a secretive group called the priory of sion. It is believed by some that this group are the originators of the protocals and that they do indeed have an agenda for controlling christendom; indeed the templars engaged in a form or usury and they became a banking and shipping giant said by some to be the worlds first multinational corporation.

So where did the templars originate from? Some believe that when the temple in jerusalem was sacked by the romans the priests fled having buried treasures such as the dead sea scrolls; they fled to jewish merchant colonies around the mediterranean including the south of france from where they are said to have intermarried with christian families, then nobility and eventually royalty. This is where all the legends of mary magdelene fleeing to the south of france come from. The british royal family claims descent from the israelites see 'british israelitism')

So anyway we are in the mists of time here so lets come back to the 1900's....

The jews fled russia having been kicked out by the tzar who suspected them of subversions aginst his state. They came to germany where they were treated respectfully and were able to set up businesses; they thrived in germany. Many of the big banking houses behind the federal reserve and the bank of england origniate from germany in particular frankfurt. The rothschilds are pre-eminant amongst them.

The jews all helped each other and promoted each other and before long they had accumulated a lot of the wealth in germany and had a controlling share in a lot of business. The germans entered world war 1 and they had pushed the allies almost all the way to paris itself.

Behind the scenes the rothschilds as head of the zionist federation went to the british secretary of state arthur balfour and they made an offer to him. They said that if the british gave them palestine as a homeland (palestine was under the control of the british empire at that point...there were oil interests even back then) they would get international jewry in the US to use its media influence and political and banking influence to bring the US into the war on the side of Britain

They did this and the germans were suddenly being demonised in the US media and public opinion was turned against them; before this trade relations with germany had been healthy. The sinking of the lusitania provided the final impetus and the US entered the war turning the tide

The germans then found out about this secret agreement after the war at the treaty of sevres and understandably they felt that the jews that they had sheltered in their country from the russians had stabbed them in the back.

Germany was humiliated after the war. The reperations destroyed her economy, their money inflated to become worthless and unemplyment rose to 6 million unemployed germans. So that is a bit more context as to why there was animosity towards the jews

So 'anti-semitism' as you call it isn't some virus that people just contract; it is when you dig into things a reaction to what people perceive to be a threat to their way of life and their very existence

When you add also that many in germany feared the spread of communism which they had watched devestate russia in a bolshevik revolution led by jews then you can understand why there was even more paranoia especially when you know that the communists had a violent rising in germany in an attempt to take it over. Rosa luxemberg (jew) was instrumental in that.

The communist revolution wasn't just manifesting as violence on the streets it was also being waged on a cultural front. 'cultural marxism' was subverting german identity and culture and the germans have a kind of love of homeland and community which exists to this day with many germans involved in social clubs; the germans even have a word that has no equivalent in english called 'heimat' which relates to the peoples connection to each other and their land. They are a proud people who have resisted invasion for thousands of years. The only roman eagle to be lost was lost in the forests of germany.

The germans felt all this was under attack. So that was the context for the various goings on

Obviously they didn't suddenly turn on them. Hitler, for one, grew up in Vienna at times when anti-semitism was normal. And he wasn't the only future nazi to grow up in such conditions. Because the anti-semitism was already strong inside Hitler (and it only grew after WWI) he wanted to exterminate them.
I feel like we're agreeing here, but wording it differently. I looked back to your initial claim that sparked my interest:

They seriously hated jews. They were trying to get rid of them in any way possible. Rather destroying or exterminating, but because that was socially unacceptable they first transfered them.
If Hitler started exterminating jews when he got to power in 1933, he wouldn't have been able to build the economy that he did.

I've covered a lot of this above

Regarding the economy aspect....

The unemployment figure for germany was 6 million before world war 2. Combined with peoples savings being wiped out through hyper-inflation, this is an economic catastrophe. Many believe that the figures for the jewish holocaust are not accurate and have been inflated. Many believe that the zionists stole the 6 million figure from the figure of the 6 million unemployed germans. If for example you look at the number of jews cited as being in germany in that newspaper article it says there were 600,000 many of which moved or were transferred from germany with the rise of the nazis. So even if the nazis had killed every jew in germany they would have killed half a million at the most. That means they would have had to kill a further 5 and half million elsewhere whilst fighting a war on two fronts.

The jews were gaining a monopoly hold on many areas of business and finance in germany and hitler sought to break that stranglehold. However by trying to do that he then incurred the wrath of the international jewish community which had vast power in the US, UK and so on.

In order to avoid borrowing from the international bankers hitler started issuing 'mefo bills'. He used these to start public work projects so that he could employ the 6 million germans out of work. Meanwhile international jewry was trying its damndest to suffocate german trade and to squash them as a nation; the germans are a very proud people however and frankly they are not people you should mess with.

They got together as one people determined to stand tall again and despite the set back of world war 1 and 2 they are now at the top of the heap again in europe (with the exception of russia who is a strong trading partner with germany)

Nah, really it was because Hitler was a diehard anti-semitist and so were many other nazis, Germans and Europeans at that time. The zionist sanctions followed the anti-semitism, not the other way around. As is clearly shown by the newspaper article that you shared.

Wrong as i have explained above. The animoisty towards the jews had its roots in other events. Remember Hitler was in the front lines of a powerful german army that did not lose the first world war...it WAS stabbed in the back by other forces. Germany didn't need to negotitate a damn thing as far as its soldiers were concerned

This smaller subtopic about nazis is much easier for me to talk about, because I can actually research the information and I already know something about it.

Ok just broaden your knowledge base out to get more context because as i mentioned before we are only taught a very narrow focus in western institutions and that is deliberate to prevent us seeing things from another perspective

I'm a european, i am largely germanic, my language 'english' is largely germanic. The germans were a modern industrialised nation just like mine was. They were not insane....things happened to them that sparked certain responses from them

Although i am a globalist in the sense that i want to see humanity become one global community i do not want to see it happen under a single authority that will be unaccountable to the people. I want power exercised from the bottom upwards. I also love cultural diversity. I love the different flavours of humanity. I love my country and i love the connection of the people to the land. I am not against the mixing of people at a natural pace but i am agaisnt the forced mixing of people in a rapid process designed to break all culture, all connections to the land and all localised skills in favour of narrow specialisation; all this is designed to achieve one thing: the subjugation of humanity

My family fought the germans in two world wars and some died in the process; imo this should never have happened NEVER.

I don't think they'll be punished by doing so. If they teach that stuff, students will find it weird. Media will pick it up and tell the world. The professor would be ridiculed, dropping student admissions. This interpretation doesn't point your or my way. Students might be brainwashed, media corrupt or they might not. But I think it's unlikely that they are not allowed to do so because of guidelines or anyone who controls it. Professors here have quite a lot of freedom in what they teach.

Well i'm here to tell you that the whole system from media, government, banking, education etc is far more centrally controlled than you currently realise

if a professor says certain things they are attacked by the media and various other agencies. If you want to understand more about how this work and what forces act on your government then you shoul look inot the lobby groups.

So for example look into the work of professors mearsheimer and walt called ''the israeli lobby and US foreign policy'' and then look into the resistance they got from the jewish lobby

if you want ot read or listen to more then Gilad Atsmon the ex-jewish activist speaks a lot about the role of what he calls 'jewish power' in the west

Commentators like Chomsky says some good stuff but at the same time he never mentions the ashkenazi money men at the centre of it all; he uses a veiled term 'power elite'

Wanna bet? I'll bet you there's no new world war within 10 years.

Well you've already lost that bet

There already IS a war going on. it is a proxy war in ukriane and syria and it is a currency war

Here is CIA adviser Jim Rickards explaining the picture hidden from the US public in the mainstream media

[video=youtube;dtsQQ59O0Uk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtsQQ59O0Uk[/video]

http://rt.com/news/202995-chomsky-rt-nuclear-war/

[h=1]World ominously close to nuclear war – Noam Chomsky to RT[/h]

The world has come ominously close to a nuclear war in the past and it could happen again as Russia and the West have slipped back into what seems like another Cold War, world-renowned scholar Noam Chomsky tells RT’s Sophie&Co.
Once NATO has expanded its borders all the way to reach Russia, its mission has very much changed since it was initially established, Chomsky said. Now, its aim is to take control of global energy systems rather than maintaining intergovernmental military balance.
The world has never been closer to a nuclear war that could wipe out all of its initiators, and the threat is no longer a thing of history, according to Chomsky.


“The worst-case scenario, of course, would be a nuclear war, which would be terrible. Both states that initiate it will be wiped out by the consequences. That’s the worst-case. And it’s come ominously close several times in the past, dramatically close. And it could happen again, but not planned, but just by the accidental interactions that take place – that has almost happened,” Chomsky told Sophie Shevardnadze.
The overall situation of international instability was worsened by US involvement in the Middle Eastern affairs and damaging regional conflicts, Chomsky says, comparing its actions in Iraq to a hit with a “sledgehammer.”
Chomsky went on to discuss with RT the former NSA contractor and whistleblower Edward Snowden, and the US’ ever-expanding global spying that are having a dangerous impact on the domestic population and is inspiring other governments worldwide to do the same.

[video=youtube;rNkXaxd9Dow]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNkXaxd9Dow[/video]

 

[Lark]

Ah I still have not seen any of this about Russia in the news here in the US. Given that we are in the process of midterms I somehow think if there was anything like this really going on I would hear about it because it could be used as leverage for one party or the other

Its because whatever isnt straight up invented online by conspiracy nuts is created for Russians for Russian domestic consumption.

Putin would love it to be broadcast elsewhere, especially if it would mobilise the public and politicians against him because he really, really needs what he is telling the Russian public about their being menaced by sinister, reckless foreigners to be confirmed by said foreigners.

So, Putin is really behaving a lot like North Korea and other despotic nations like that, he is counting on some western power bumbling or blundering into providing the credience he desperately needs for his political survival.

I used to think that the Russians were serious threats to world peace but they only are if foreign powers let them be, if he "humiliates" them with his posturing and bizarre antiquated ideologies about manifest destiny and a greater Eurasian superpower, it'll all be a drop in the water in terms of world history, all men die, including Putin, he's not immortal and neither is his highly idiosyncratic vision of Russia and the world.

What he's opposing, the international rule of law etc. will endure long after he's gone because it corresponds to real human needs not dreams and wishes but needs.

 

[Lark]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...e-for-the-nazi-march-into-europe-9845345.html

Vladimir Putin suggests Britain and France were responsible for the Nazi march into Europe

Putin is reported to have said that historians attempt to 'hush up' the 1938 Munich Agreement



Russian president Vladimir Putin has suggested that Britain and France were responsible for the Nazi’s march into Europe.


Putin is reported to have said that historians attempt to “hush up” the 1938 Munich Agreement, in which Britain and France agreed to Adolf Hitler’s occupation of Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland.
It led to the carving up of Poland and other Eastern European countries at the start of the Second World War. The non-aggression treaty saw Poland virtually disappeared from the map, 20,000 Polish officers and intellectual executed by the Soviet secret police, and the killing of three million Jewish people in Poland as a result of the Holocaust.
The Telegraph reported that on Wednesday Mr Putin told a meeting of young historians in Moscow that Neville Chamberlain, the British Prime Minister at the time, had “waved a piece of paper and said, 'I've brought you peace' when he returned to London after the talks.”
The comments were recorded in a Kremlin transcript

OK, lets fact check this. Muir I know you hate this sort of thing and would rather just validate whatever bonkers material appears to support your warmed over protocols of the elders of zion but anyway.

Did Neville Chamerlin say "peace in our time"? Yes, absolutely, its not a lie, its not covered up either, there's been no attempt to "hush up" appeasement what so ever and western historians agree that it a miscalculation, based upon a lot of things but in no small part the conviction that modern ideologies were no match for established regimes and traditionalism.

Why would Putin, a former KGB/FSB and fiercely nationalistic leader, want anyone to focus upon British and French "non-aggression treaties"? Well that's easy, because he would prefer that they do that rather than focus upon or remember the Russian and German non-aggression treaty, which was not appeasement, which has been reported since, particularly by pro-soviet sources, as a tactic to provide space in which Russia could create its tide turning tank battalions, but which was at the time a definite alliance between the ideological opponents of democracies world wide.

The reality is that neither are that well remembered. Which I think is unfortunate. No really remembers the ideological divisions and geo-politics of that time. Not since the death of socialism and the amount of bizarre conspiracy theories which have filled the vacumn and void left in its place.

 

[Erlian]

Well you've already lost that bet
There already IS a war going on. it is a proxy war in ukriane and syria and it is a currency war
Here is CIA adviser Jim Rickards explaining the picture hidden from the US public in the mainstream media

That's not a world war to me.
I'd use wikis definition: A world war is a war involving some of the world's most powerful and populous countries. World wars span multiple countries on multiple continents, with battles fought in multiple theaters.
I want to nuance "battles" with this definition on war: War is an organized and often prolonged conflict that is carried out by states or non-state actors. It is generally characterised by extreme violence, social disruption and an attempt at economic destruction. War should be understood as an actual, intentional and widespread armed conflict between political communities, and therefore is defined as a form of (collective) political violence or intervention.


When we get a single war with extreme violence between multiple countries on multiple continents you win.

 

[Lark]

That's not a world war to me.
I'd use wikis definition: A world war is a war involving some of the world's most powerful and populous countries. World wars span multiple countries on multiple continents, with battles fought in multiple theaters.
I want to nuance "battles" with this definition on war: War is an organized and often prolonged conflict that is carried out by states or non-state actors. It is generally characterised by extreme violence, social disruption and an attempt at economic destruction. War should be understood as an actual, intentional and widespread armed conflict between political communities, and therefore is defined as a form of (collective) political violence or intervention.


When we get a single war with extreme violence between multiple countries on multiple continents you win.

Yeah, its hardly war, to call it war is to drink Putin's koolaid.

Its geopolitics or business as usual.

 

[muir]

That's not a world war to me.
I'd use wikis definition: A world war is a war involving some of the world's most powerful and populous countries. World wars span multiple countries on multiple continents, with battles fought in multiple theaters.
I want to nuance "battles" with this definition on war: War is an organized and often prolonged conflict that is carried out by states or non-state actors. It is generally characterised by extreme violence, social disruption and an attempt at economic destruction. War should be understood as an actual, intentional and widespread armed conflict between political communities, and therefore is defined as a form of (collective) political violence or intervention.


When we get a single war with extreme violence between multiple countries on multiple continents you win.

There is extreme violence going on on multiple continents

If you study history you will find that many wars are preceeded by economic sanctions or other economic weapons

Bombs and bullets are not th eonly weapons available to a state

The 'cold war' was waged in many proxy theatres where the main players: russia and the US avoided direct confrontation but still wrestled with each other through other peoples for example in afghanistan

There was nothing 'cold' about the war for any of the people caught in the direct conflicts

many died in the cold war and many are dying now

There is a war on at the moment and to think otherwise is naive in the extreme

NATO is trying to move closer to russia and to encircle it. This is extremely aggressive behaviour and russia is standing up and saying it is ready to defend itself

 

[muir]

Yeah, its hardly war, to call it war is to drink Putin's koolaid.

Its geopolitics or business as usual.

Wrong the current economic situation is UNPRECENDENTED

 

[muir]

OK, lets fact check this. Muir I know you hate this sort of thing and would rather just validate whatever bonkers material appears to support your warmed over protocols of the elders of zion but anyway.

Did Neville Chamerlin say "peace in our time"? Yes, absolutely, its not a lie, its not covered up either, there's been no attempt to "hush up" appeasement what so ever and western historians agree that it a miscalculation, based upon a lot of things but in no small part the conviction that modern ideologies were no match for established regimes and traditionalism.

Why would Putin, a former KGB/FSB and fiercely nationalistic leader, want anyone to focus upon British and French "non-aggression treaties"? Well that's easy, because he would prefer that they do that rather than focus upon or remember the Russian and German non-aggression treaty, which was not appeasement, which has been reported since, particularly by pro-soviet sources, as a tactic to provide space in which Russia could create its tide turning tank battalions, but which was at the time a definite alliance between the ideological opponents of democracies world wide.

The reality is that neither are that well remembered. Which I think is unfortunate. No really remembers the ideological divisions and geo-politics of that time. Not since the death of socialism and the amount of bizarre conspiracy theories which have filled the vacumn and void left in its place.

Hold on.....you said you were going to 'fact check'

Where are your facts you referreed to?