Quiet: The Power of Introverts - Ep1

[Apone]

[MENTION=5090]Apone[/MENTION] ....who said introverts were afraid to talk to people? (wtf?)

Geez… calm down.
I meant less likely.

 

[Shaggy Leo]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION]

I saw that documentary too - the chilling part for me was when the nephew of Sigmund Freud was hired to 'sell' cigarettes to women. They staged some protest where women would light up cigarettes and a picture would appear in the newspaper with the caption that these women were bearing 'torches of freedom'... Cigarettes = torches of freedom... Chilling... I forgot the name of that nephew of Sigmund Freud. A puppet-master... And the US was this huge laboratory for the ideas of Freud... Which is probably another reason why all these personality models ought to be taken with a pot of salt!

@All
I am reading Cain's book and better understand now why in my country, there is this proliferation of churches in the American style. Loud, brash, fundamentalist - I left mine because I got impatient with the 'cheerful' master of ceremonies trying to whip up the crowd to "praise the Lord" and "show it". Heck, some of us prefer to worship in silence and with quiet rituals. Where's the love and the acceptance? Pfft, just conform to the exuberant, extrovert ideal. To hear them, it's like if they are extroverts, they are God's favourite children. Pfft.

Cain's book traces the history of the extravert ideal but does not do it in a whiny way. Not my impression at all. She herself comes across as very gentle but with a core of steel - on ted.com or on youtube.

I'm also reading the biography of Isaac Newton and man, was this guy an introvert!! I am amazed at what I can only describe as his Ni at work trying to understand the Universe and the physical laws that would later bear his name.

So yea, it was about time someone wrote that book and bravo to Susan Cain for saying 'enough' in such a GRACIOUS manner...

 

[barbad0s]

I'm also reading the biography of Isaac Newton and man, was this guy an introvert!! I am amazed at what I can only describe as his Ni at work trying to understand the Universe and the physical laws that would later bear his name.

I remember I developed the biggest crush on Isaac Newton when I had to do a report on him in high school. He was like this super intelligent angry hermit who never married. Extremely erotic for high school-aged niffer.

 

[Shaggy Leo]

I remember I developed the biggest crush on Isaac Newton when I had to do a report on him in high school. He was like this super intelligent angry hermit who never married. Extremely erotic for high school-aged niffer.

Haha, extroverts! Keep sending the love!!!

 

[muir]

@muir

I saw that documentary too - the chilling part for me was when the nephew of Sigmund Freud was hired to 'sell' cigarettes to women. They staged some protest where women would light up cigarettes and a picture would appear in the newspaper with the caption that these women were bearing 'torches of freedom'... Cigarettes = torches of freedom... Chilling... I forgot the name of that nephew of Sigmund Freud. A puppet-master... And the US was this huge laboratory for the ideas of Freud... Which is probably another reason why all these personality models ought to be taken with a pot of salt!

These are the forces at work in our society yet many people have no idea about them!

It is all still at the unconscious level. It is only when they become conscious of the manipulation that they will be free of it

Edward Bernays was Freuds nephew

Yes the US was a giant laboratory for the psychologist Freuds ideas. His nephew Edward Bernays created the massively influential Public relations industry in the US. The Frankfurt School also played a huge part in the process and the Fabian society as well. Interestingly the US banker, ex-chairman of the Council on Foriegn Relations and oil man David Rockefeller wrote his thesis at university on Fabian 'socialism' (which is not socialism at all!)

There's no mystery why the world is as messed up as it is when so few people on the street are aware of this stuff. If they were better informed we could sort this mess out. It seems the internet is playing a very powerful role in doing that

Yes Bernays convinced women on an unconscious level to associate cigarettes with their liberation and empowerment....what a sneaky devil! That is the modus operandi of these people EVERYTIME: to INVERT the truth

Here's a pop video of madonna. It shows a black and white version of her fighting each other representing the duality of reality as represented by the black and white chequered floors in freemasonic lodges. The video contains scenes of bondage, torture, interogation, violence and finishes with some hebrew letters etched in fire on a chair followed by a view through the eye of horus:

At 1 minute madonna just suddenly and randomly says to the camera in a subliminal message: 'Sigmund Freud':

[video=youtube;V_pCcBm400Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_pCcBm400Y[/video]

 

[Shaggy Leo]

[MENTION=1871]muir[/MENTION],

Never understood the appeal of that pop singer nor the whole celeb cult thing. But that's just me, I guess. So don't start a flame war with me, anyone!

Let's get back to Solongotgon's OP and the video about Susan Cain's book.

What's with the robot voice? Artificial voice?

I CAN multi-task.
No, I think very fast except when learning a new skill or figuring out a new situation. Then, I get slow and deliberate.
I was told I was boring though, LOL...
I used singing in a choir as a channel for self-expression. One big problem for introverts is not projecting the voice enough and therefore appearing unsure, hesitant, dull, etc.
And to this day I get this look that says "no, this person cannot be that smart"... I just take it with amusement. It's just not worth getting riled up over people's prejudices.
So on the whole I think that Cain got the picture right. The social pressure to conform to the extroverted ideal is strong. But in Asia, the opposite would be true. I bet there, it's the loud and brash people who would be seen as odd ones out. Can any posters from Asia confirm this?

 

[Vicarious]

@Apone ....who said introverts were afraid to talk to people? (wtf?)

Exactly. I'm in no way, shape, or form afraid to talk to people...there are just times that I would prefer not to and, at the end of the day, find it draining. I can "fake extrovert" like a boss when I need to or want to, but it does tend to exhaust me.

Also, I can multitask with no problem and am usually at my best when I'm under pressure or under an adrenaline rush. I have no problem making decisions quickly and I have been known to be fairly dominant at times...in fact, I sometimes enjoy being in a dominant position.

And WOW, that voice-over guy is annoyingly monotone.

 

[Stu]

Watching the video, which is short a very general, it is clear that the writer is not saying that all introverts share those qualities. I multi task in my work but I prefer not to. And do not call me, put me on speaker phone and proceed to do something else, my response is to get on the can and squeeze out a dukey.

 

[Nitesteamer]

I liked most of the video and the NPR speaking style. I think that this type of material is especially beneficial for introverts who do not understand their own nature.

Not many extroverts would even consider reading or listening to something with that title, but they (in general), could benefit too.

Just today, my very outgoing pre-med niece who is probably EXTJ illustrated that she naturally expects people to operate in an extroverted manner. We were walking to the lobby as intermission of Diary of Anne Frank began. As we went thru the theater doors I was not speaking (was moved by content and performance), and probably within 5 seconds, she asked me if something was wrong. My answer was "I'm still processing". She knows that I am a very independent person who is quiet at times, but somehow expected that I would instantly be talking as soon as we passed the threshold, and I realize that I should have probably thought of something to say ahead of time to prevent awkwardness.

I do wish there was a common understanding on both sides of the spectrum.

 

[Kgal]

I liked most of the video and the NPR speaking style. I think that this type of material is especially beneficial for introverts who do not understand their own nature.

Not many extroverts would even consider reading or listening to something with that title, but they (in general), could benefit too.

Just today, my very outgoing pre-med niece who is probably EXTJ illustrated that she naturally expects people to operate in an extroverted manner. We were walking to the lobby as intermission of Diary of Anne Frank began. As we went thru the theater doors I was not speaking (was moved by content and performance), and probably within 5 seconds, she asked me if something was wrong. My answer was "I'm still processing". She knows that I am a very independent person who is quiet at times, but somehow expected that I would instantly be talking as soon as we passed the threshold, and I realize that I should have probably thought of something to say ahead of time to prevent awkwardness.

I do wish there was a common understanding on both sides of the spectrum.

I like the fact she asked you if something was wrong.

I do too....

Also....I do wish there was common acceptance of differences on both sides of the spectrum. Although I have tried and tried to understand some of the MBTI aspects of the extroverts....I just cannot seem to grasp it. If I cannot understand them...I sure cannot expect them to understand me. Therefore - I am learning to embrace the differences and accept them.

 

[Nitesteamer]

Ya [MENTION=2578]Kgal[/MENTION], the performance was outstanding and I was kinda in shock. Jonelle does not beat around the bush, and that way she does't have to wonder.

 

[SealHammer]

I like the fact she asked you if something was wrong.

I do too....

Also....I do wish there was common acceptance of differences on both sides of the spectrum. Although I have tried and tried to understand some of the MBTI aspects of the extroverts....I just cannot seem to grasp it. If I cannot understand them...I sure cannot expect them to understand me. Therefore - I am learning to embrace the differences and accept them.

The way I always sort of rationalized extraverted behavior was thinking they were "allergic to silence."

I've slowly been coming to accept that there are a lot of people, especially those who are highly extraverted, who aren't going to naturally understand things in the same manner I do, or understand why I so prefer silence over a flood of speech. It helps if you try to meet those types of people in "the middle", in the sense that you try to engage them in a manner in which they are familiar (lay everything out in front in plain terms, without condescending) and encourage them to attempt the same to you (introspect, posit primarily dense, deep ideas). When entering into such a situation, not having any huge expectations helps. When you do that, you enjoy it more when you can finally understand a part of that person or that person finally understands an aspect of you, and it makes the entire situation much less awkward than it could be if you had expected each party to reach earth-shattering revelations about the other. Certainly, being able to accept (without bitterness!) that you might not reach any kind of conclusion at all, and each person remaining an enigma to the other, is a very helpful step which is relatively difficult to reach.

Part of the reason there exists such a schism between those two types of people is that there are highly intro- or extraverted individuals on either side who propagate the idea that the other side is alien and indecipherable, not merely preferring different tactics to approach similar problems; it doesn't help that neither side tends to be especially willing to initiate meaningful social interaction with the other. That's why you just have to be the better person by reaching out and attempting to narrow that schism through fostering a greater understanding in personal interaction for everyone involved.

Sorry if that sounds a little dogmatic or isn't too helpful, but that's my view on it.

 

[Stu]

What the F#%k Sh%t F#%k, Mother F#%ker?

Well, in some ways I can see it. It goes with the whole 'focused' thing-- if you're afraid to talk to people, then you're more focused on what you're doing. I suppose it depends on what your colleagues value-- introverts are probably less likely to coast on charm or by being the office comic relief.

@Apone ....who said introverts were afraid to talk to people? (wtf?)

Geez… calm down.
I meant less likely.

If you want to say you meant "less likely" rather than "afraid" in response to my taking exception to you jumping to the conclusion that those who are quiet are generally afraid.

Be advised the attitude that quiet people are afraid is patronizing. I do not like it

Telling me that I should calm down because I did not see that by "scared" you meant "less likely" is even more patronizing.

You may not see it but I see an arrogant and patronizing characteristic in your attitude. I find it distasteful.

 

[barbad0s]

If you want to say you meant "less likely" rather than "afraid" in response to my taking exception to you jumping to the conclusion that those who are quiet are generally afraid.

Be advised the attitude that quiet people are afraid is patronizing. I do not like it

Telling me that I should calm down because I did not see that by "scared" you meant "less likely" is even more patronizing.

You may not see it but I see an arrogant and patronizing characteristic in your attitude. I find it distasteful.

You may not see it but I see a butthurt characteristic in your attitude.

 

[Apone]

Let's all just calm down, okay?

 

[James]

First I really liked this thread. I watched the video which to me was a bit disappointing. Some poorly adapted extroverts are confused by introverts, others value the abilities we have that counterbalance theirs. Unfortunately I think the video comes across like a complaint. We need to adapt as much as extroverts. I spend long periods of time alone reading and thinking, but I force myself out of it to meet people and socialise and that's good for me.

I manage a group of people at work and have to enter the spotlight to lead meetings. It's something I gradually became more comfortable with and it's benefited me personally. As introverts we have a lot to offer, but no matter how good our "song" is, we need to get it played on the radio for people to appreciate it. I don't worry about extroverts anymore, I enjoy their company and laugh when I see the rapid decisions go wrong. Who do they go to for help then ? Introverts !

Smart extroverts learn to value and use their introvert self, and we introverts have to do the same. I joke my wife that when we met I knew we'd get along. I needed a front man and she needed a script.

 

[Stu]

I agree

I have been trying to understand the subtle differences between extroverted and introverted thinking. Apparently the use of logic is not at question, it is more about orientation to the object. With extroverted thinking the object of the thinking predominates, with introverted thinking the subject (the thinker or rather some aspect of the thinker) always plays a role.

When an introvert tries to describe, explain or justify an internally held belief or position by using an exterior or objective criteria, she/he will always run against the grain of an extroverted thinker.

 

[Nixie]

I was bored. I clicked on this thread, not anticipating that it would relieve my boredom, only that it was something to do....

Hello! The most fun! Love ya Huggybuns!

 

[Quiet]

I liked the last minute of the video, the rest i didnt agree with

I dont think that the extraversion versus introversion scale is as important as the video makes out. Each mbti type uses cognitive introverted and extraverted cognitive functions. People are too dynamic to be seen just as introverted or extraverted.
Firstly, when did we agree there was an ideal, where did it come from and what is it based on? Ideal, for what?

The reason that extraversion may seem more ideal is probably because there are proportionately more extraverts than introverts. So in that sense, what is more common place, more average, is often percieved as more ideal. Also, given that the world is made up of people and we exist in a society, i think that many people like it when other people are sociable and friendly towards them. And both extraverts and introverts can be friendly and sociable.

I disagree with the 'ideal' traits associated with extraversion. Those traits are not exclusive to extraverts and not all extraverts have those traits

Extraversion being an 'ideal' is different in theory compared to practice. All people are different and we all prefer different traits and qualities. Some people, even extraverts, prefer the company of introverts and vice versa. It is akin to the ideal of 'attractiveness' in any given society, people dont pick their mate solely because they fit that ideal, most pick a mate based on how suited they think they are for them in particular. Different roles will be better suited for extraverts and introverts. There are leaders that are both introverts and extraverts. The only realm in society where extraversion is very important and brainwashed into people is in consumeristic culture, pop manufactured music and pop generic movies. There are many intelliegnt people, both introverted and extraverted that dont subscribe to that culture.

There are both healthy and unhealthy introverts and extraverts. And i think its the healthy- unhealthy scale that is important, not the introversion- extraversion scale.
You know how on many personality tests they ask questions like- do you prefer to be alone? What they should really ask is:
do you prefer to be alone? rate 1-10
and then something more clarifying next to that question like- Do you feel comfortable and satisfied with being alone? rate 1-10
So then we can guage how the person feels about being alone. Otherwise what happens is that certain aspects of introversion, depression and social anxiety all get lumped in together. As we all know, most introverted people like to be alone not because they are depressed, its because they are content to be alone and possibly recharging themselves. But there is a chance that even an introverted person is only enjoying being alone because they are feeling depressed. An extraverted person may also feel comfortable being alone, but there is also a chance that the person doesnt like it and is only choosing that preference because they are depressed.

So i think they need to ask people to rate their preference for a specific trait, and then rate their satisfaction towards their preference.
This is not a perfect solution, but atleast we may be able to start separating introversion from neuroticism.

i think the most important thing for people (the general public) to understand is that we are all unique and it takes all kinds of people to make the world go around. We are not all the same and that is fine. Valuing introversion or extraversion over the other is silly. And personally, i think that there are many situations where extraverts can also be disadvanatged, stereotyped and misunderstood.

And none of our personality traits are static. We can develop and work on them, change them and discard them. What matters is how comfortable we personally feel with who we are. If the people around you are not accepting you for who you are, it is important to ask whether it is 'you' that is not accepting yourself, and projecting your disapproval of yourself onto others. If you are truly comfortable and satisfied with who you are, i doubt that others opinions will matter, and your self approval/satisfaction/confidence will be reflected by others. An eye sees, but cannot see itself except through a reflection. We can not see ourselves except through our reflections in other people and objects. Oh god, sorry for going on again, i cant seem to help myself

 

[muir]

The new DSM due to come out soon has extended to include all human emotion as disorders. This means that if the system doesn't like you they can say you are insane under any pretnece at all and lock you up and chemically cosh you with drugs. here's a news article about it:

http://www.naturalnews.com/038322_DSM-5_psychiatry_false_diagnosis.html