Racism: have we made any progress from the 60's?

[Introspiritual]

If that's the issue, you might want to consider that most white people are not rich, and the people who were rich before racism took a serious blow across our society are still rich. This has nothing to do with race and everything to do with education, breeding, and connections. The rich and powerful have been in place since far before race was even a consideration, and their wealth has nothing to do with the issue of race. The rich stay rich because they don't let go of their power easily. They didn't give it out to the white people who served them, and they won't be giving it out to the multi-cultural people who serve them. It's not about race. It's about greed, which could care less what color anyone is.

"It's never been about race, it's about class." - Noam Chomsky

 

[Gaze]

I wouldn't call that racist at all. I think a problem with a lot of people and racism is that they want to pretend everyone is the same. Ethnic groups are different. They have different histories/cultures, and it's stupid that we try to paint everyone with the same brush.

I think you're right, we need to be aware of our differences, and then learn to appreciate those differences. We are all equals, but we're also all very different.

Very important distinction.

 

[Reon]

I'm not sure, it was an american study but I would take the leap that segregation is a natural occurrence everywhere. It's not -forced- or -violent, racist- segregation. It's more like, the black people just hang with the blacks and the whites with the whites, asians with asians. I've seen this happen at my school and in a numerous of office settings. I think people tend to flcok towards people they think is similar to them, like women flocking to women and men to men. It's not that it always happens it's just common. Safety net, you know?

Mmhmm, the reason I ask though is because I took two tests (among many) that tested your racial biases by timing your responses to qualitative questions. I took one test that stated that my preferences for "white" and "black" people are practically non-existent. I then took another test that tested my bias for middle eastern people and it showed, supposedly, that I had a slight preference for middle eastern people. It makes sense in a way, my best friend while I was young was middle eastern and I got to know his family as well as mine, so whenever I think of that culture, I subjectively think positively of it.

I guess what I'm getting at is basically what you said. People tend to think that people of the same race could potentially hold the same views as them, and as such, give them a slight bias towards being their friend.

 

[Entyqua]

I wouldn't call that racist at all. I think a problem with a lot of people and racism is that they want to pretend everyone is the same. Ethnic groups are different. They have different histories/cultures, and it's stupid that we try to paint everyone with the same brush.

I think you're right, we need to be aware of our differences, and then learn to appreciate those differences. We are all equals, but we're also all very different.

i agree this is a very important distinction, but why cant we love each other despite our differences.

 

[VH]

Do races segregate themselves or is it cultures (That can have racial baises) that segregate themselves?

Sorry if this thread seems...unorganized and more of an utter brain storm.

There is no such thing as race, therefore the concept of it is cultural.

 

[VH]

Whites held the power in the 60's, and they hold the power today. During the civil rights era, blacks had to push whites to give them equality. The whites had to give equality to blacks (and other minorities) because whites held the power (as in money, education, political/social systems). Today's power struggles are different, but still very much real.

Today's power struggles are between the educated and uneducated. Race is no longer a factor in the arguments you're making. Class is the governing factor. And while many black people are still part of the 'poor' class, massive amounts have moved out of it and into the 'middle' and even 'wealthy' classes. Blacks and whites are growing into very similar proportions of population distribution across the classes, more proof that racism is no longer a real issue in modern America.

You talk about education, which is another facet of racism/social injustice. Blacks (specifically) have less access to quality education than whites. That's not to say that there isn't a great deal of whites in poverty. Poverty doesn't discriminate. Power though, does.

Income gaps lead to less access to quality education for minorities. A lesser education leads to a lower income, and then the cycle repeats.

You've actually got it wrong. About 10 years ago, a lot of energy and effort was pooled into this very issue, and now schools in 'poor' areas that are predominantly black receive matching funds as per federal regulation. And most importantly, there are more college scholarships and grants available to black people than any other 'race'.

The issue is that the 'poor' black culture is very resistant to education and places very little value on it, even when it is free. No matter how much importance is placed on education, in a free society, we cannot force anyone to accept it.

Granted, people can and do escape from it, but the poverty, income rates, and education rates point to something. There is a pronounced difference in the rates between blacks and whites.

Actually, there isn't. The percentage of the black population in the 'middle' class bracket is nearly the same as the percentage of the white population in the 'middle' class bracket. The media focuses on the impoverished inner city black community as if this is the 'real' black community, and it simply isn't. There are more white people in America living in the 'poor' class than black people right now, but you don't see them on television because that isn't fashionable to care about these people.

I would say the system is set in a way that favors the white man. Therefor racism is still an important issue.

Well, you'd be wrong. The current system favors anyone who is educated enough to get ahead. The only thing it takes in this nation is the will to do so. There are countless examples of this all over the nation. Sure, 'minorities' are having trouble cracking the 'rich' class, but so are all the white people who aren't already part of that class.

I'd also like to point out that the percentages of 'poor' Hispanics is FAR higher than poor blacks, and the percentage of 'poor' Native Americans is even higher. The issue of race isn't leaning against black people nearly as much as other 'races'. Poor and uneducated people come from all races, and that is the core of the issue, and all of the issues that perpetuate it.

 

[VH]

We HAVE made leaps and bounds on the subject of race in this nation, and we should be celebrating our progress, rather than focusing on the few remnants that haven't been fully cleared away.

This MLK Jr. Day should be one of contentment and reflection on just how much we've gained as a nation since the 1960s.

 

[bamf]

Today's power struggles are between the educated and uneducated. Race is no longer a factor in the arguments you're making. Class is the governing factor. And while many black people are still part of the 'poor' class, massive amounts have moved out of it and into the 'middle' and even 'wealthy' classes. Blacks and whites are growing into very similar proportions of population distribution across the classes, more proof that racism is no longer a real issue in modern America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#By_race.2Fethnicity_and_family_status.
Under poverty and demographics

Whites in poverty-8.2%
Blacks in poverty-24.7%

Furthermore, unless you have something to back up your statements with, I doubt that blacks and whites are growing in similar proportion in class distribution.

While the income of black homes is rising, that hardly means that their 'class' is really changing. In 2001, only 10% of blacks had any shares in the stock market, only 69% had a retirement plan, and that retirement plan was on average only worth about $12,000. Compare that to the white average retirement plan of $65,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States#cite_note-TCOW-4

You've actually got it wrong. About 10 years ago, a lot of energy and effort was pooled into this very issue, and now schools in 'poor' areas that are predominantly black receive matching funds as per federal regulation. And most importantly, there are more college scholarships and grants available to black people than any other 'race'.

I can only speak from personal experience on this subject (working as a tutor at a local refugee center, and as an education major), but I wouldn't call this poor schools advantaged in any way. A poor school is still a poor school. Poor schools also don't attract many highly-desired teachers. Just because the school has money doesn't mean the children attending the school have money. Internet access is changing education, and the poor don't have access to it.

There are more scholarships and grants for blacks because they are underrepresented at the university level. Not only that, but due to unequal distribution of wealth between blacks and whites, private funding is very limited for a number of students.

The issue is that the 'poor' black culture is very resistant to education and places very little value on it, even when it is free. No matter how much importance is placed on education, in a free society, we cannot force anyone to accept it.

Blacks receive less in wages compared to whites, even with the same level of education. The average income of a white male with only a high school degree was around $34,000 in 2006. A black male with only a high school education had an average income of around $25,000. The average income of a white male with a masters degree was around $68,000 in 2006. Black males with masters averaged around $52,500 in the same year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

There is obvious income disparity between whites and blacks of the same education level. This should be evident enough that in some way, shape, or form, being a white male is advantageous over being a black male.

Actually, there isn't. The percentage of the black population in the 'middle' class bracket is nearly the same as the percentage of the white population in the 'middle' class bracket. The media focuses on the impoverished inner city black community as if this is the 'real' black community, and it simply isn't. There are more white people in America living in the 'poor' class than black people right now, but you don't see them on television because that isn't fashionable to care about these people.

This simply isn't true, as I proved with the statistics in my first point.

Obviously there are could be more whites living in poverty than blacks; there are more whites in the nation than blacks. The poverty rates for blacks though are nearly 3X that of whites.

Well, you'd be wrong. The current system favors anyone who is educated enough to get ahead. The only thing it takes in this nation is the will to do so. There are countless examples of this all over the nation. Sure, 'minorities' are having trouble cracking the 'rich' class, but so are all the white people who aren't already part of that class.

The system obviously favors whites. Income disparity, poverty rates, education rates, are just a few factors in proving it.

At all education levels, white males on average earn more than their black counterparts (not to mention that men on average earn more than women with the same level of education). To be a white man puts one at an advantage. The system is set up in a way that favors white men, and thus racism is still a factor, and an important one.

To say that blacks don't value education, don't work as hard, or what ever is a cop out and ignores the statistics. White=power.

 

[bamf]

We HAVE made leaps and bounds on the subject of race in this nation, and we should be celebrating our progress, rather than focusing on the few remnants that haven't been fully cleared away.

This MLK Jr. Day should be one of contentment and reflection on just how much we've gained as a nation since the 1960s.

In all honesty, if MLK was alive I'm pretty sure he'd be talking about the very things we are talking about. We have made leaps and bounds and that is reason to celebrate, but it shouldn't block out the important remnants that still exist. I couldn't think of a better time to bring such issues to light.

 

[Shai Gar]

So yea, I have talked mainly about my experience, but afa has it changed since the 60's, I'd have to say it's improved in some ways definitely, but there is still a ton of room for improvement. I dislike it, no... I'm gonna say that I actually "hate" it, when I hear white people, or even non-white people slam First Nations peoples, suggesting that they are all lazy alcoholics who live on dumpy reserves, or that East Indians (East Asians) are all out to be terrorists or that they beat their women etc when it happens in any race. I hate generalizations that come from a place ...

My mind immediately went to "Arabian Nights" from Aladdin.

Perhaps I should have honed the question more. We have made progress since the 60's, blatant racism is now a no-no but from about the middle of the seventies to now, the subject has been in a catharsis of sorts.

Maybe from white people, but I know that even in some of my favourite raps I'm hearing "Honkey", "Cracker", "Whitey" and more thrown around a LOT and noone bats an eye. Mention the word "Nigger" through, everyone jumps on you.

Black people and other ethnicities can be racist too you know

You're damn right they can. It's starting to happen less and less, but when I was in hear eight I went to Toowoong State High School which was 50/50 Indo-Chinese and European kids. I was friends with nearly everyone except the smaller scrawnier bullies (I was also small and thin back then), it didn't matter what ethnicity, I was friends with them. But when I asked out a Vietnamese girl I couldn't move for all the stares, and she said that she couldn't date me because I was white.

From the 60-70s onward, do you think that we have made a lot of progress on the issue of racism? Also, do you think racism is an issue now? Why?

I'm assuming that you mean in the U.S.A. because we didn't have much of a civil rights movement for black people here other than allowing them to count in the census, and vote in 1967. Unfortunately Australia's racial problem is more economic. Aboriginals here have kept the same culture and economic system for thousands of years. They're the only practising Communists. Unfortunately that means that not many of them bother to work since they can just ask their mates for whatever they've got. It's why they've never built cities or townships or anything beyond a stone age culture. Because Communism just doesn't allow for the greed and building of personal assets required for growth.

Down south there's a huge Anti-Muslim push, because the muslims were, for quite a while, trying to push their own values on to everyone else, and trying to impose Sharia law on their families when it goes against Australian Federal Law. There's also an Anti-Indian thing apparently, but that is new too.

Australia was 80% White back in the 60's, and incredibly racist. I can't speak for down south, but up here all the races who live here (apart from newcomers who seem to live in suspicion of everyone) live in more or less harmony, all equal in our looking down on Aboriginals.

 

[The Jester]

Actually, I have been called a wigger but I'm pretty sure the person wasn't serious.

They just hatin' on you cuz u got flow.

 

[arbygil]

I don't think it solved much.

Racism is still a problem, it's just not talked about.

I once listened to this really interesting speech from a guy who wrote a book about racism and such. He said that the problem about racism, and why so many people are oblivious to it is because people aren't willing to talk about race with their children. They're against it because they think somehow that talking about different skin tones will mean that they are racist. The author explained that kids will naturally segregate themselves from different colors of skin; black kids with black kids, white with white. It's just something that naturally happens without any prompting. He said that in order to prevent this he talk to his son who happened to be white, and discussed different races and about how it is important not to segregate them and to include everyone, regardless of race.

His son paid attention to this and was on a soccer team with a bunch of hispanics. He researched hispanic soccer teams and such and then went up to the boys and discussed them with the boys, who were shocked that a white boy knew all of this. They welcomed him and he's made friends.

Some people would say that kind of behavior is racist. But, there are differences in the interests of race because of the different cultures, and I saw nothing wrong with it.

The book suggested overcoming racism was being aware that there is a difference in races but that it doesn't mean they shouldn't be treated any differently.

If we're allowed to say women and men are equal and such, why can't we discuss race in the same way without being accused of racism?

^^THIS.

Slant, you've single-handedly explained the problem and you've brought the answer forward. It's not about "we're all the same" because we're not. It's about understanding and respecting the differences, and enjoying them. The problem with many majority cultures is, they do not take the time to learn about minority cultures. They think it's the "duty" of minority cultures to get to know them. Or they can't be bothered.

But I tell you what: When the majority culture travels and suddenly visits a country where they're the minority, the light suddenly switches on.

Anyway.

I could get into this discussion but the problem is, those who know already know and those who don't won't want to know. I get tired of trying to justify my existence, y'know? :/

TL;DR: You cannot possibly or successfully discuss issues such as classism, racism, sexism, or any other -ism unless you have done your homework and listened and researched the Other's POV. If you can't understand why the Other feels the way that they do with all the "strides" of the centuries, then you won't have a successful discussion. You will have justifications and you will have someone trying to prove how "good" things are. How can you possibly have such a discussion when you haven't walked in their shoes, or even sought to understand their feet?

 

[BlinkandThink]

What if I don't have much respect for any culture?

 

[arbygil]

What if I don't have much respect for any culture?

Then you're screwed 'cause you're on an island of One.

 

[BlinkandThink]

Then you're screwed 'cause you're on an island of One.

Sounds perfect. Maybe I can buy a bunk bed.

 

[Shai Gar]

What if I don't have much respect for any culture?

Island of Two Babeh.

 

[arbygil]

Island of Two Babeh.

Sounds perfect. Maybe I can buy a bunk bed.

But will you respect yourselves in the morning...?

 

[anica]

Racism: have we made any progress from the '60s?

I'm an amateur genealogist in my spare time and this year I discovered that some of my ancestors were African, slaves up until the Emancipation Proclamation. I was very excited about this discovery. For one thing, it cleared up some mysteries in my research, but more broadly, I was inexplicably proud of this new part of my jeritage, distant though it may be. My family was prretty liberal growing up--my mother campaigned for Kennedy, admred MLK, etc. Therefore I was shocked that when I shared my new knowledge with my siblings, they were appalled and disbelieving.

I find some of the same to be true with ableism: sometimes those who appear to be the most "liberal" and accepting are actually covering up prejudice that shows through when the differences strike too close to home.

 

[Duty]

Statistically speaking, we've gotten much better, but not perfect.

Class struggles, third world struggles, war, prisons, and the recent expansion of the police state (the Patriot Act specifically) are now more pertinent social issues then race in my opinion.

 

[VH]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States#By_race.2Fethnicity_and_family_status.
Under poverty and demographics

Whites in poverty-8.2%
Blacks in poverty-24.7%

You're quoting wikipedia for unskewed statistics? Okay, let's play this game.

According to wikipedia, there were 194,552,774 white people in America as of 2000, times 8.2% = 15,953,327. In 2000, there were 33,947,837 black people in America, times 24.7% = 8,385,115. There were twice as many white people living under poverty demographics in America than black people.

Furthermore, unless you have something to back up your statements with, I doubt that blacks and whites are growing in similar proportion in class distribution.

While the income of black homes is rising, that hardly means that their 'class' is really changing. In 2001, only 10% of blacks had any shares in the stock market, only 69% had a retirement plan, and that retirement plan was on average only worth about $12,000. Compare that to the white average retirement plan of $65,000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_in_the_United_States#cite_note-TCOW-4

Blacks receive less in wages compared to whites, even with the same level of education. The average income of a white male with only a high school degree was around $34,000 in 2006. A black male with only a high school education had an average income of around $25,000. The average income of a white male with a masters degree was around $68,000 in 2006. Black males with masters averaged around $52,500 in the same year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_inequality_in_the_United_States

There is obvious income disparity between whites and blacks of the same education level. This should be evident enough that in some way, shape, or form, being a white male is advantageous over being a black male.

These numbers are not taking something very important into consideration - the statistics for the white people who live in the same areas as the majority of black people. The vast majority of the black population in America is in the South, where everyone earns 10 to 25% less than the rest of the nation. Our costs of living are much lower than the rest of the country. If you take a look at these figures for white people in these areas, you'll find that these numbers are not at all far off. The problem is when you start adding in areas of the nation where black people are not as common (like Utah for instance) you're skewing the numbers for whether or not earning potentials and other benchmarks are equivolent because you're factoring in an entirely different set of variables that don't apply to the control group.

I can only speak from personal experience on this subject (working as a tutor at a local refugee center, and as an education major), but I wouldn't call this poor schools advantaged in any way. A poor school is still a poor school. Poor schools also don't attract many highly-desired teachers. Just because the school has money doesn't mean the children attending the school have money. Internet access is changing education, and the poor don't have access to it.

Yes, and the poor white, hispanic, native american, and any other 'race' of kids don't have it either. Again, I stand firm by this. We're not dealing with a 'race' issue. We're dealing with a 'class' issue, and this spills over into all races.

There are more scholarships and grants for blacks because they are underrepresented at the university level. Not only that, but due to unequal distribution of wealth between blacks and whites, private funding is very limited for a number of students.

Hispanics and Native Americans are also underrepresented, but do not have anywhere near the number of scholarships and grants available. Here in Memphis, I saw a black lady who was working at the financial aid office tell my best friend, who is Native American and Hispanic, that there weren't enough Native Americans or Hispanics in Memphis to qualify as a minority, and therefore denied her request for financial aid based on minority status. In other words, the only people getting financial aid for minority status were black people who are in fact 75% of our city's population. If we're going to make legislation based on race as minority status, it has to apply to all minorities, and currently it doesn't. MLK wasn't the champion of black people. He was a champion of all people.

To say that blacks don't value education, don't work as hard, or what ever is a cop out and ignores the statistics. White=power.

To say that an entire 'race' shares anything in common is a ridiculous assumption, and if you jumped to that conclusion from what I wrote, read it again. There is a culture within the 'poor' black community - which means not all black people, nor even all 'poor' black people - that is resistant to education. There is also a culture within the 'poor' white community that is very similar in its resistance to education, but we don't hear about the plight of these people because they are white - they should know better. This is a complete double standard that we pity one group while hold another accountable for doing the exact same thing, which is being poor and uneducated and unable to see the value of education because of it.

If anything quoted above were true, how in the world would we have an emerging black 'middle' class? The real problem here is that the black success stories don't get the media attention that the 'poor' black 'victims of society' get. More and more, black Americans are proving themselves to simply be Americans like all the other Americans. And God bless them! This is exactly what Dr. King fought for - the right to the same opportunities as all the other Americans.

Someone mentioned that MLK would be espousing the sorts of idiotic sentiments on the subject of race that are oversaturating the media today... Nothing could be further from the truth, and quite frankly, as Dr. King is one of my personal heroes, I'm offended. He would be holding the black community accountable for itself, praising the people who've taken advantage of everything he fought for to create prosperity for their families, and condemning those who chose to stay in poverty and not stand for a greater vision. I know this because even in the 1960s, his speeches included these very sentiments, constantly calling for the black community to take a stand and better themselves with every opportunity, to be model citizens, and to show the world what amazing people they can be.

What remains in America is a very clear class issue, and that is something that humanity has dealt with since there was such a thing as social stratification - and it is where we need to be focusing our efforts if we are to truly make positive change in our time. Chasing our tails and bickering over who has it easier is only going to create distance between the groups that are bickering - and for what? A few more dollars here or there? Is it really worth resegragating ourselves so that one group can make 2% more money than another? We live in a day and age where there is no job that anyone of any race cannot hold, be it doctor, corporate mogul, or even President of the United States.

This is an unprecedented time in the history of mankind, and you're not celebrating everything that we've accomplished? You're not celebrating everything that one man who put his life at risk, and lost it, to invoke this change has achieved?

Honestly, you guys are making me sick.