Reality and Faith

hush said:
Hush yourself. I'm not the one who came flying out of the gate, junk flopping everywhere, shouting "TESTICLES!" I take no credit and demand you take your soul back. I'm not sure how you've managed with it for all these years, but a couple months has been too much for me. I thought I could manage, but I can't. *sniffles noisily*
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Really!!!!!!

Nah, that's ok. I don't want it. You can keep it.
 
hush said:
I guess you won't be writing another one then Milky, since you won't have any material to base it on.
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Hmm. Did you learn your arrogance at university? You're really derailing this thread. And that's just wrong...
 
wolly.green said:
perhaps an essay would be the correct clarification needed when you are obviously so far ahead of us peons

In this particular subject yes. By far. But that's because I did my undergrad in Mathematics with a few papers on the theory of relativity. And did my postgrad in Philosophy. This is why I can tell you have a lot to learn on the subject, particularly in philosophy. Which shouldn't be insulting at all.
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Big fucking deal dude...for the last 6 years I assisted with open heart surgery and have dealt with death and ideas and things that would make you wet your pants.
The fifteen years before that I’ve worked in surgery/emergency medicine of all types including in the Coast Guard.
I’m more than enough studied and well read to understand anything you have to say - if you would say anything with some substance.
You make implications of me being wrong on this and that and you being right...but it would take too long to explain so you’ll spare everyone (while I provide verifiable proof and links).
Whatever...I give not a shit what kind of degrees you have.
You don’t think I can be just as well read as you and any degree...does that make you smarter than me or the rest of us somehow Mr. Green?
I mean...props for actually having such degrees if indeed you do...but you are acting like the dick you described yourself as now.
We are done trying to have a civilized conversation if you are going to shit on everything anyone has to say...because you have degrees.
Oooooohhh...aaaahhhhh.....so amazing!

Once again,
Ciao.
 
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I love it when someone prefaces something with a statement like - “Not to be a dick, but...” or “Not to be a racist, but...” or whatever thing you are claiming not to be is the thing you are about to be.
Then said person usually wonders why people react in a negative manner toward them.
Just grow up...I would really like to discuss the ideas that people have been contributing to this thread and I don’t wish for it to die.


@just me
I would love to discuss faith with you in more depth, along with @Sandie33 and @Actual , @Milktoast Bandit , @the , even @Flavus Aquila

Do you believe that faith can interact with this reality?
There seems to be significant proof if one looks for it, even the scientific studies of mass prayer or meditations have shown there to be something taking place which is making a difference or effecting our reality.
To what depth do you think faith can reach? Could someone theoretically and religiously speaking gain enough faith to walk on water?
I know @just me you had a story about asking your friend to walk on water with you.
Why, do you think that we have not seen that level of mastery of reality through faith in recent ages?
Is it occurring and being hidden, or is it not occurring now for some reason?
Walking on water aside, there is significant proof if you look through the links I provided on the first page to at least show that something is having an effect...is it the mass consciousness of those praying...or is it an intervention by those being prayed to?
What is the experience of you all?
 
Skarekrow said:
Big fucking deal dude...for the last 6 years I assisted with open heart surgery and have dealt with death and ideas and things that would make you wet your pants.
The fifteen years before that I’ve worked in surgery/emergency medicine of all types including in the Coast Guard.
I’m more than enough studied and well read to understand anything you have to say - if you would say anything with some substance.
You make implications of me being wrong on this and that and you being right...but it would take too long to explain so you’ll spare everyone (while I provide verifiable proof and links).
Whatever...I give not a shit what kind of degrees you have.
You don’t think I can be just as well read as you and any degree...does that make you smarter than me or the rest of us somehow Mr. Green?
I mean...props for actually having such degrees if indeed you do...but you are acting like the dick you described yourself as now.
We are done trying to have a civilized conversation if you are going to shit on everything anyone has to say...because you have degrees.
Oooooohhh...aaaahhhhh.....so amazing!

Once again,
Ciao.
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So what? This is my expertise. Its clear you know very little about the history of science, and next to nothing about the philosophy of science. I'm not going to pretend like you know your shit because its politically correct to do so. If I were wrong about your expertise, I would expect you to tell me so. There is no point pretending like you have knowledge about something that you clearly don't.

Good day
 
wolly.green said:
So what? This is my expertise. Its clear you know very little about the history of science, and next to nothing about the philosophy of science. I'm not going to pretend like you know your shit because its politically correct to do so. If I were wrong about your expertise, I would expect you to tell me so. There is no point pretending like you have knowledge about something that you clearly don't.

Good day
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You’re really an assuming person aren’t you.
When you say “Not to be a dick...” followed by you saying something dickish...is you consciously acknowledging that what you are about to say is meant to be dickish and I have no time to even give you one more response.
You’re arrogant and immature at best.
You have no idea what I know and what I don’t know.
(psychic indeed)
It is clear I know very little? And you know this by the whole two posts I made, both of which provided links and verifiable proof...all you do is run your mouth - you aren’t contributing to a discussion, you are here to win some argument no one else is fighting.
You have yet to even provide even the slightest bit of knowledge to the contrary...you just can’t say - you’re wrong, and I know so, because this is what I study (without any elaboration)...you sound really dumb....sorry.

Now run along please.
 
Skarekrow said:
You’re really an assuming person aren’t you.
When you say “Not to be a dick...” followed by you saying something dickish...is you consciously acknowledging that what you are about to say is meant to be dickish and I have no time to even give you one more response.
You’re arrogant and immature at best.
You have no idea what I know and what I don’t know.
(psychic indeed)
It is clear I know very little? And you know this by the whole two posts I made, both of which provided links and verifiable proof...all you do is run your mouth - you aren’t contributing to a discussion, you are here to win some argument no one else is fighting.
You have yet to even provide even the slightest bit of knowledge to the contrary...you just can’t say - you’re wrong, and I know so, because this is what I study (without any elaboration)...you sound really dumb....sorry.

Now run along please.
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Yeah thats right. Studying a subject makes all the difference.
 
And I quote..."I have no time to even give you one more response.”
This is the one more.

Contribute!
Jesus...what is it with you?
You like to argue about semantics and circles...I wish to move forward.
This is me saying nicely...I don’t want to talk to you anymore, because you act like a prick.
Please stop garbaging up the thread anymore unless you have something useful to say about the subject besides shitting on everyone else opinions, thoughts, ideas, and bits of truth.
Wow!
Dense.
 
Skarekrow said:
I would love to discuss faith with you in more depth,
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Indeed...:D I like discussing the philosophy of Faith, not so much religion. Can we agree to keep the conversation light and agree to disagree should the time come? (I've been verbally degutted enough for one week, my boohoo needs time to heal ;) ) I'll prob be stoned by others, but alas...

Onward (perhaps upward) to open discussion of your questions @Skarekrow ...

Skarekrow said:
Do you believe that faith can interact with this reality?
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Personally yes, I rely on my faith everyday. When I rise in the morning, I say thank you to God. Now I have to explain I follow 'my learning's, what is right for me...by this I take KJV, Catholic, and Gnostic Bible text in unity. My 'God' is the one true god and not the Earthly God, who's wife is Sophia; (aka Truth & Wisdom). Meaning the god I speak to is the energy, the creator of all that is, all that has been, and all that will be. That is who as I fall asleep/meditate to and discuss the days events and blessings for that day, I do call him 'Big Guy' it is endearing.

Socially, no, and an emphatic NO. I believe that because many folks as children were drug to churches, sects and religion ---instead of being allowed to choose---were brainwashed in their formative years, when repetition breeds memory to the point when I ask tgem 'why do you believe in God' most say to me because they just do, or they don't know. Baffling.

Skarekrow said:
To what depth do you think faith can reach?
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I believe faith to be limitless.

Skarekrow said:
Could someone theoretically and religiously speaking gain enough faith to walk on water?
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No, Not in human flesh. Projectionally, (out of body), yes.

Skarekrow said:
Why, do you think that we have not seen that level of mastery of reality through faith in recent ages
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I believe people are impatient. Society has grown into a materialistic (earth bound), want to compartmentalize/ organize everything, not to mention instant gratification, throw away tangibles, the list goes on, way of life that, (and I point a finger at religion), faith is forgotten much if the time if not all the time.

And, then the opposite -- blind faith, which to me is a ridiculous concept while focused/concentrated faith is available.

Skarekrow said:
Is it occurring and being hidden, or is it not occurring now for some reason?
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Both.

Yet, more and more of the younger generation is conducting themselves more openly in their beliefs.

Skarekrow said:
is it the mass consciousness of those praying...or is it an intervention by those being prayed to?
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Trick question sweet Krow, lol. :D

I believe it is both. The Others (Elders) cannot intervene unless they are asked to do so. And, they are quick and apt to do so when a group prays for another---not for their self.

This is where I'll put as an example. When one prays for oneself it must be a selfless prayer not a selfish prayer, not a bribe eg 'if you give me A I'll do B' ... but a self-LESS prayer. Asked in humility.

Skarekrow said:
What is the experience of you all?
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TBD ;)
 
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Sandie33 said:
Indeed...:D I like discussing the philosophy of Faith, not so much religion. Can we agree to keep the conversation light and agree to disagree should the time come? (I've been verbally degutted enough for one week, my boohoo needs time to heal ;) ) I'll prob be stored by others, but alas...

Onward (perhaps upward) to open discussion of your questions @Skarekrow ...


Personally yes, I rely on my faith everyday. When I rise in the morning, I say thank you to God. Now I have to explain I follow 'my learning's, what is right for me...by this I take KJV, Catholic, and Gnostic Bible text in unity. My 'God' is the one true god and not the Earthly God, who's wife is Sophia; (aka Truth & Wisdom). Meaning the god I speak to is the energy, the creator of all that is, all that has been, and all that will be. That is who as I fall asleep/meditate to and discuss the days events and blessings for that day, I do call him 'Big Guy' it is endearing.

Socially, no, and an emphatic NO. I believe that because many folks as children were drug to churches, sects and religion ---instead of being allowed to choose---were brainwashed in their formative years, when repetition breeds memory to the point when I ask tgem 'why do you believe in God' most say to me because they just do, or they don't know. Baffling.


I believe faith to be limitless.


No, Not in human flesh. Projectionally, (out of body), yes.


I believe people are impatient. Society has grown into a materialistic (earth bound), want to compartmentalize/ organize everything, not to mention instant gratification, throw away tangibles, the list goes on, way of life that, (and I point a finger at religion), faith is forgotten much if the time if not all the time.

And, then the opposite -- blind faith, which to me is a ridiculous concept while focused/concentrated faith is available.


Both.

Yet, more and more of the younger generation is conducting themselves more openly in their beliefs.


Trick question sweet Krow, lol. :D

I believe it is both. The Others (Elders) cannot intervene unless they are asked to do so. And, they are quick and apt to do so when a group prays for another---not for their self.

This is where I'll put as an example. When one prays for oneself it must be a selfless prayer not a selfish prayer, not a bribe eg 'if you give me A I'll do B' ... but a self-LESS prayer. Asked in humility.


TBD ;)
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Thank you...that was a wonderful and nicely thought out response.
No one wants to avoid turning this into an argument with anyone more than me.
Seriously.

I think it is probably a bit of both (the answering or power of prayer) also...both the collective consciousness being able to send positive healing energies to a particular person, but I cannot say that there isn’t a higher power (if only your higher self) that can/does intervene because I could never know that in totality while alive...which would be blind faith.
I also agree with you on the reasoning behind praying, it should be grateful and selfless.
 
Skarekrow said:
Thank you...that was a wonderful and nicely thought out response.
No one wants to avoid turning this into an argument with anyone more than me.
Seriously.

I think it is probably a bit of both (the answering or power of prayer) also...both the collective consciousness being able to send positive healing energies to a particular person, but I cannot say that there isn’t a higher power (if only your higher self) that can/does intervene because I could never know that in totality while alive...which would be blind faith.
I also agree with you on the reasoning behind praying, it should be grateful and selfless.
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Well, I've not thought you argumentative in past threads--direct, yes, and this is a good trait :D

I'll give better thought to your links, I've only perused them, ...make notes and be back with questions...I had wanted to answer the points you posted in the mention.
(excuzee my typos, :p)
 
Sandie33 said:
Well, I've not thought you argumentative in past tgreads--direct, yes, and this is a good trait :D

I'll give better thought to your links, I've only perused them, make notes and be back with questions...I had wanted to answer the points you posted in the mention.
(excuzee my typos, :p)
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Please take your time...I go away for days on end off of the forum quite often.
Don’t do so at my expense is what I mean.
@atree (I haven’t forgotten you either!)

They are all very interesting studies, they at least, should cause someone to pause and critically think about the subject.
 
Skarekrow said:
...
@just me
I would love to discuss faith with you in more depth, along with @Sandie33 and @Actual , @Milktoast Bandit , @the , even @Flavus Aquila

Do you believe that faith can interact with this reality?
There seems to be significant proof if one looks for it, even the scientific studies of mass prayer or meditations have shown there to be something taking place which is making a difference or effecting our reality.
To what depth do you think faith can reach? Could someone theoretically and religiously speaking gain enough faith to walk on water?
I know @just me you had a story about asking your friend to walk on water with you.
Why, do you think that we have not seen that level of mastery of reality through faith in recent ages?
Is it occurring and being hidden, or is it not occurring now for some reason?
Walking on water aside, there is significant proof if you look through the links I provided on the first page to at least show that something is having an effect...is it the mass consciousness of those praying...or is it an intervention by those being prayed to?
What is the experience of you all?
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Even me...

On the question of whether faith can interact with this reality.

The question is implicitly at odds with my views. Faith is a type of knowledge, which differs from other types of knowledge in terms of its subject matter, and in terms of sources. (God in both subject, and source).

I don't think there can be any distinction in how this type of knowledge interacts with things, from how any other type of knowledge interacts with things: by influencing the practical intellect, will and action of those who have faith.

As for questions of "miraculous" effects, it think there are two broad categories:
1. The unexpected, but explainable: Such as general health, lifestyle, and mental benefits. (Not miraculous imo).
2. The unexplainable - like walking on water.

On the first type, I don't think there is much to say, other than if the particular faith in question is based on reality, there will be a positive mental effect; a kind of reduction in mental dissonance... and a greater integration overall. Kind of a "right thinking and right living" consequence.

On the second type of faith effect, it strictly isn't dealing with explainable, predictable, or natural causality. I think a great deal of skepticism is necessary when examining such "claims." It may well be that such occurrences are far more uncommon than claimed, or they may be far more common, but seldom reported authentically.

I don't think true miracles bear much examination scientifically, other than to search for a scientific explanation for the event, in essence trying to disprove the supernatural origin of the event. If an occurrence is truly inexplainable, I would hesitantly consider the possibility that it was miraculous.

Any explanation of miracles, are obviously outside the discussion of causality implied in the question here, and are probably best referred to a theological discussion: what the faith sources themselves say about such things. (Ie. discussions of the extraordinary acts of God, as departures from the regular acts of God).
 
Skarekrow said:
Do you believe that faith can interact with this reality?
There seems to be significant proof if one looks for it, even the scientific studies of mass prayer or meditations have shown there to be something taking place which is making a difference or effecting our reality.
To what depth do you think faith can reach? Could someone theoretically and religiously speaking gain enough faith to walk on water?
I know @just me you had a story about asking your friend to walk on water with you.
Why, do you think that we have not seen that level of mastery of reality through faith in recent ages?
Is it occurring and being hidden, or is it not occurring now for some reason?
Walking on water aside, there is significant proof if you look through the links I provided on the first page to at least show that something is having an effect...is it the mass consciousness of those praying...or is it an intervention by those being prayed to?
What is the experience of you all?
Click to expand...

I guess I think it is odd to phrase the question this way, yet it sounds so natural to do so, "Do you believe that faith can interact with this reality?" Faith isn't really a thing outside of the human mind (maybe animal mind as well but that's probably another topic). I think the human mind can alter or maybe even train the body to do things outside of what conventionally can be done. Faith to me is a descriptor of my state of mind as to how I am approaching reality. In this sense I believe that faith interacts with reality all the time.

Why do you think that we have not seen that level of mastery of reality through faith in recent ages?
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Well I just think we have our days filled and there isn't a lot of interest to pursue things which don't promise a return on investment. I imagine there are many monks who meditate every day seeking enlightenment or train their bodies vigorously to endure harsh climates....

I'm just going to leave this here as a bookmark. I may or may not return to flesh it out more.
 
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