Regarding forum conflicts (please read)

Just follow those few…simple rules…spelled out clearly in Latin…and we’ll all get along just fine. ^^^^^
 
Wyote said:
Part of the problem of the INFJs is our deeply held values and stubborn attachment to ideas we have formulated. It's often as strongly held as an INTJ's, but often lacking applications of impartial logic, instead traded off with circumstantial evidence and/or gut feelings on morality. INFJs are generally just as open to changing their ideologies as an INTJ, given proper information worded in a polite and meaningful way. INTJs simply need logic.

INTJs = Input in --> Input out
INFJs = Input with hugs in --> Input with hugs out; Input without hugs in --> Whiney rage crabbiness and mental shutdown out

So the INFJs forum is this melting pot of various types, but many INFJ's feel a sense of safety and ability to open up (something they rarely do) because there are a lot of reasonable INFJs willing to hear out one another with an open mind and heart. But, there are a lot of other types (INFJ and non) that are here with personal agendas, often in conflict with the mindset of an INFJ who has supposedly found a safe haven.

The internet is not a safe haven. Anywhere. As long as people are keeping that fact in their mind, guards stay up and it's snarky business as usual on the internets.
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I don't find typology to be an excuse for disgusting behaviour.
 
SpecialEdition said:
I don't find typology to be an excuse for disgusting behaviour.
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Fully agree with you there.

I somewhat take issue with your use of the word disgusting here though. Perhaps because I do not understand your frame of reference. Do you find it disgusting for a person to open up and make themselves vulnerable to try to connect with others? Do you find an attempt to elucidate a particular logical frame of mind onto a vulnerable person to be disgusting? These are things all people do, regardless of type. Some people are more comfortable with their vulnerability and shifting their cognitive lenses/filters given new information. People get their undies all in a bunch when their vulnerability is abused or their lenses are not being looked through.

I was merely trying to express a cause and effect scenario that seems prevalent on this forum. It is pervasive throughout life.
 
I think there is conflict in that people are here looking for different things. Some people are looking for a support group, friendships, and an emotional connection. Others might be here to debate, learn, and want someone to challenge their understanding and worldview.
I don't think the first is likely to get a good impression of the second. Honestly I think this forum is meant to be something in between. A place to learn with like minded individuals and discover your type and how it fits in with others and how you can promote better relations with others, communicate better, and understand ourselves more through comparisons of our types.

Although I have no interest in relationships, emotional connections or support of any kind on this forum. I recognize I need to compromise. That doesn't mean I need to emotionally connect with the other posters but at the very least I need to recognize the purpose of each thread and whether my post would fall in line with the OP is looking to get from it. Yes, I have failed in this and I need to improve on this.

The other side of this is when a thread is made that is intended to debate on various matters the users who prefer to avoid conflict would avoid such threads instead of building up resentment toward the other posters about what is perceived as more aggressive posting.

So what is the purpose of 'this' thread? I don't think the purpose of this thread was to point the finger at the other users and to create more arguing as seems to be happening. In fact, the purpose of this thread was directly the opposite. I think people here have a tendency to not recognize the difference between arguing the poster and arguing the post. I think it is a very important distinction. In this respect it is okay to argue on this thread where we as posters are failing and how we can do better but it is not okay to drag out a particular poster and point the finger. A person is not the problem it is the actions of various persons and the people who react that are the problem.

In relation to that concept: IRL I try to communicate in ways that do not put the focus on others and make them feel attacked. Instead of saying "you do this", I say "I feel like this when...". In this form I am taking responsiblity for my own feelings and problems and letting them take responsible for their own actions instead of making them responsible for both their actions and my feelings.
 
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great points [MENTION=9860]Grayman[/MENTION] regarding distinctions between arguing the poster and arguing the post, agree wholeheartedly.
 
Grayman said:
...Some people are looking for a support group, friendships, and an emotional connection...
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I freely admit to being open to support, friendships and emotional connection. Why the heck not? Life can be damn lonely. Anyone who wants to engage in any or all of those things, feel free to PM me. I like debates and exchange of ideas too.
 
just me said:
New debate for a new thread, as I disagree. What shall it be called?
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Heh, now this is a novel way to avoid thread derailment. Touché. In an attempt to perhaps avoid a needless thread, allow me to make a correction to what I said. Instead of saying, "so very true" and implying that as a true fact, I should have said something along the lines of "this resonates very well with me." This was another prime example of how threads can be derailed through simple words. [MENTION=680]just me[/MENTION], if you would still like to open a new thread for discussion on the topic, by all means. ;)
 
I vote that whenever there's a thread battle, somebody should jump in and play this as the soundtrack.

[video=youtube;gQb2cfMrMPk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQb2cfMrMPk[/video]
 
PintoBean said:
I freely admit to being open to support, friendships and emotional connection. Why the heck not? Life can be damn lonely. Anyone who wants to engage in any or all of those things, feel free to PM me. I like debates and exchange of ideas too.
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I second this!
 
Grayman said:
I think there is conflict in that people are here looking for different things. Some people are looking for a support group, friendships, and an emotional connection. Others might be here to debate, learn, and want someone to challenge their understanding and worldview.
I don't think the first is likely to get a good impression of the second. Honestly I think this forum is meant to be something in between. A place to learn with like minded individuals and discover your type and how it fits in with others and how you can promote better relations with others, communicate better, and understand ourselves more through comparisons of our types.

Although I have no interest in relationships, emotional connections or support of any kind on this forum. I recognize I need to compromise. That doesn't mean I need to emotionally connect with the other posters but at the very least I need to recognize the purpose of each thread and whether my post would fall in line with the OP is looking to get from it. Yes, I have failed in this and I need to improve on this.

The other side of this is when a thread is made that is intended to debate on various matters the users who prefer to avoid conflict would avoid such threads instead of building up resentment toward the other posters about what is perceived as more aggressive posting.

So what is the purpose of 'this' thread? I don't think the purpose of this thread was to point the finger at the other users and to create more arguing as seems to be happening. In fact, the purpose of this thread was directly the opposite. I think people here have a tendency to not recognize the difference between arguing the poster and arguing the post. I think it is a very important distinction. In this respect it is okay to argue on this thread where we as posters are failing and how we can do better but it is not okay to drag out a particular poster and point the finger. A person is not the problem it is the actions of various persons and the people who react that are the problem.

In relation to that concept: IRL I try to communicate in ways that do not put the focus on others and make them feel attacked. Instead of saying "you do this", I say "I feel like this when...". In this form I am taking responsiblity for my own feelings and problems and letting them take responsible for their own actions instead of making them responsible for both their actions and my feelings.
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Perhaps Forum developers could do something nice about it: for example there chould be a tag [Debate], as there already is one for each type, [NSFW] and other. In that case people who aren't interesting in the intention of debating can stay away. There could also be a [No debate] or alike, if the thread tangent a hot topic, but isn't up for a debate about it. If there still are some who want a debate, they should start a new thread?

Meh, I can see both good and bad sides of this. Feels a little bit childish. But perhaps there could be another solution?
 
I would be interested in mapping the different reasons for everyone to be part of the forum. I guess there isn't just one, and that our personalities might have something to say about it.
 
I wonder if anything will actually change beyond people being motivated enough for the near-zero effort required to do nothing more than thumbs up a few posts in this thread and echo "agreed" like a bunch of parrots.

Everyone likes the idea of change and positivity and good feels and good will. Optimism that it could well happen is applauded. What about the "how"? And the organization required to accomplish it? Measuring success afterwards and whether or not the effort was worth it? Nobody actually likes doing that part. The desire to act a certain way comes from within, and even then mere desire won't necessarily get you anywhere.
 
[MENTION=3998]niffer[/MENTION]

Change doesn't have to be either or. To me, someone being more mindful is a success in its own right. I'm not asking for this to turn into a safe haven where people can't have arguments and people can't get hurt.
 
It doesn't really bother me all that much, because I ignore threads that are just there to stir the pot. I mean seriously, do you really expect an open intelligent debate with a thread titled "Antisemitism". You're not going to do change someone's mind by just getting hurt and arguing. All you'll do is ensure the thread gets more and more views and the person who created it is validated.

I'm not saying you shouldn't discuss you're opinion on a controversial topic, but look for one that has some merit to it.

its-the-internet-just-ignore-all-the-idiots-and-keep-scrolling-6bd25.png
 
Wyote said:
Fully agree with you there.

I somewhat take issue with your use of the word disgusting here though. Perhaps because I do not understand your frame of reference. Do you find it disgusting for a person to open up and make themselves vulnerable to try to connect with others? Do you find an attempt to elucidate a particular logical frame of mind onto a vulnerable person to be disgusting? These are things all people do, regardless of type. Some people are more comfortable with their vulnerability and shifting their cognitive lenses/filters given new information. People get their undies all in a bunch when their vulnerability is abused or their lenses are not being looked through.

I was merely trying to express a cause and effect scenario that seems prevalent on this forum. It is pervasive throughout life.
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You haven't read my previous posts in this thread so that is why you do not know what I am referring to so I'll get straight to the point.

I could care less if people want to express their ideas, opinions and emotions. It doesn't bother me if they want to open up and share (and a lot of times over share) because this is a so called safe space. What disgusts me is when forum members are so fundamentally tied to their ideas/beliefs that if someone else expresses something in opposition to that they simply cannot debate their side but actually have to dehumanize their opponent by insulting them, calling them socio/psychopathic and attacking what they perceive a person to be based on a few posts. I have seen and experienced this on multiple occasions. It's absolutely deplorable that people can NOT see something outside of their own perspective and as a result have to treat the other person like they are less human, less moral, less ethical or compassionate or like there is something fundamentally wrong about them as a person and their view of the world. I have a huge problem with that kind of behaviour.
 
niffer said:
I wonder if anything will actually change beyond people being motivated enough for the near-zero effort required to do nothing more than thumbs up a few posts in this thread and echo "agreed" like a bunch of parrots.

Everyone likes the idea of change and positivity and good feels and good will. Optimism that it could well happen is applauded. What about the "how"? And the organization required to accomplish it? Measuring success afterwards and whether or not the effort was worth it? Nobody actually likes doing that part. The desire to act a certain way comes from within, and even then mere desire won't necessarily get you anywhere.
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What're your suggestions?
 
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