Regarding forum conflicts (please read)

[SpecialEdition]

@SpecialEdition

I'm not sure if you're referring to my original post, but if so I think you're either making a straw man or just misinterpreting it. I'm not trying to enforce anything to anyone. One of the points I tried to make was how we are sometimes unnecessarily forceful in how we argue. I'm not saying don't do A, or that you shouldn't do B. My whole point was to make an open statement to raise awareness that when we argue we set a tone. I don't say that it is right, nor that it is wrong to do so. I just think that we forget ourselves sometimes.

edit: and if you don't like it, by all means ignore it.

What I say is not exclusively in response to your OP.

Can't say I've personally eroded into personal attacks or forgot myself so I don't consider any of this to apply to me even though I know I come off as aggressive and blunt sometimes. I just don't think it is realistic at all. If someone tends to have strong emotions triggered and they do not have the appropriate coping mechanisms to deal with it there is nothing you can say or do to make that stop. It's exactly like I said before - people get worked up when their ideas/beliefs are challenged and feel compelled to dehumanize their opponents with personal attacks. That is a personality/character issue and is not something that is going to change unless people who engage in this kind of behaviour WANT to change. The issue is that sometimes people feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with how they handle things and will defend themselves to the death and the only way they can be taken out of the equation is if the moderator team actually steps in and throws them in the infraction bin.

We should all have the freedom to express ourselves but you can't ask people to have the strength of character to engage in discussion appropriately if they don't know how to handle their shit and debate productively and that is always going to be the problem with stuff like this because toxic reactions are like a compulsion that can only be reduced by practicing it over and over and over again, but if they are so deeply insecure that they are constantly offended what can you do but just not engage with people who fall into that sort of pattern and throw them on ignore?

I have a few people that I fucking despise that post but there's only one that I put on ignore because I personally feel that compulsion to rip them apart but actively choose not to but that is a behaviour I trained myself into because I wanted to have some self respect. You can't really ask people to respect themselves enough to change their behaviour because if that is how they are acting they really won't see it until something changes for them, and that change is not going to come from people telling them to play nice. In fact, I'd argue that it would make it worse.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I think it depends on the context that the bible quotes were shared to begin with. Personally I am an atheist and do not understand adhering to the Bible, but for people who have grown up in faith or who have converted and found peace and joy with it, the bible is a huge frame of reference and guiding light for them. I disagree with more of the fundamentalist aspects of the Bible (old testament) but I can't fault someone for trying to walk the path that Jesus set out for them, though I do think Jesus would feel kind of ashamed of people if they used their faith to cast down and condemn other people.

I don't feel any personal responsibility to talk people out of their belief system. It would be as bizarre for me to do that as someone try to convert me to Islam or Christianity when I do not believe in a higher power at all. It is just not in my personal frame of reference.

You can't reason someone out of a belief that they didn't reason themselves into. Faith is an emotional/psychological thing, not a logical thing, but that doesn't really make it bad I don't think. Even if I favour logic.

I agree with every you have said here. However my point is this. If someone is allowed to state, promote. .utilize their particular faith here then all faiths need to be respected and received equally. To include opposite view points in relation. That means the bible and the satanic bible words would need to be respected equally.

 

[Eventhorizon]

What I find comical about this is that if a lot of people on the forum now had been on it a few years ago they'd probably have a mental breakdown. That infraction bin was full all the time. There were forum members telling others to slit their wrists in bathtubs, recording youtube videos and posting them publicly about sexually defiling a retired admin, there were rants and raves and attacks and all kinds of volatility on the forum that I think most people here would not believe. There were witch hunts, members who openly hated each other and there was so much personal drama I wouldn't even know where to begin to tell it.

INFJs is a nice little nook I have hung around on for since 2009 and I love this place and some of the people here but I think anyone who wants to change the tone or the content of the forum needs to realize that it's just... not happening.

No way. I would never have guessed that. That sounds like most other forums.

 

[SpecialEdition]

No way. I would never have guessed that. That sounds like most other forums.

Oh yeah, believe it. We had some very, VERY ugly times. Whole entire place was in an uproar. So many bans and perma-bans and all kinds of shit going down. I am sure some others (if they want) can chime in and corroborate. But yeah, some bad shit went down here and a LOT of it.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I agree with every you have said here. However my point is this. If someone is allowed to state, promote. .utilize their particular faith here then all faiths need to be respected and received equally. To include opposite view points in relation. That means the bible and the satanic bible words would need to be respected equally.

I understand and think that is fine as long as faiths and such aren't being used to antagonize people or cast them down as being inferior.

 

[j654dgj7]

I had completely forgotten just how crazy the forum was a few years back. [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] is completely right.

The forum will never change unless you witch hunt certain kinds of personalities and try to oust them from the community as a whole. Some people are naturally more prone to argue or be blunt or say things that people just plain don't like. Just because people are of one particular mind doesn't mean they cannot be a valid and valuable member of the community.

Absolutely. There's a creepy homogenization happening to the forum right now. Most of the people that were around when I joined the forum have either left or been thrown out because they didn't fit in with the atmosphere. It's a shame, because personality diversity brings so much life to forums, something that would be gone if everyone agreed on everything, by the way.

Speaking of, we probably need more moderators.

I can get behind that. More neutral and removed admins, preferably.

If someone is allowed to state, promote. .utilize their particular faith here then all faiths need to be respected and received equally.

What do you mean?

 

[hush]

Oh yeah, believe it. We had some very, VERY ugly times. Whole entire place was in an uproar. So many bans and perma-bans and all kinds of shit going down. I am sure some others (if they want) can chime in and corroborate. But yeah, some bad shit went down here and a LOT of it.

Yeah, it was pretty bad. Some of it happened before I joined, but a good chunk of it afterwards. It's part of the reason why I was absent from here from so long - the toxic atmosphere.

However, there always have been, and continue to be, good people here. Even if we've never met in person, I care about them and value the knowledge and insight they share with the forum.

I was only 20 when I joined, and I'm still young, at 24, so I still have plenty to learn. I appreciate the wisdom I've encountered here thus far.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I had completely forgotten just how crazy the forum was a few years back. [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] is completely right.



Absolutely. There's a creepy homogenization happening to the forum right now. Most of the people that were around when I joined the forum have either left or been thrown out because they didn't fit in with the atmosphere. It's a shame, because personality diversity brings so much life to forums, something that would be gone if everyone agreed on everything, by the way.



I can get behind that. More neutral and removed admins, preferably.



What do you mean?

Yeah. It was kind of fucked up around here for a while. I think I enjoy the forum now because to me, this is a period of peace lolol. To me, everything seems pretty tame to the point that it's kind of boring. I notice that people get along much better but now there are very few distinct personalities that come around. So many people have moved on because the forum really was horrifically toxic at some point, albeit not nearly as toxic as some forums, but for a group of introverts/feelers/whatever, yeah it was not a nice place at some points. I remember some forum members had to block others from viewing their blogs even because there was no escape sometimes.

So to me.... I don't want to call this thread ridiculous but if you remember how it used to be before, the forum is actually in pretty good shape even with the lack of moderation that happens.

 

[j654dgj7]

So to me.... I don't want to call this thread ridiculous but if you remember how it used to be before, the forum is actually in pretty good shape even with the lack of moderation that happens.

Just because it's much better doesn't mean that it can't get any better. I think that the sentiment of the thread is still valid. If people feel uncomfortable with the tone of posts, it's good to let it out. What I don't like is the indirect personal insults that come up. We're all different, we all post and feel differently. I wouldn't be bothered with a standard pop-up message asking if you're sure that you are being considerate, as long as it doesn't censure you, or anything.

To echo what I wrote earlier, I have the impression that a kind of clique is getting preferential treatment, while everyone deemed too different or oppositional are pushed out by shunning or personal insults. It's childish and destructive for the overall well-being of the forum, especially considering how mild mannered the forum actually is. When people start complaining about my posts being offensive -- that should be telling of how things have changed around here.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Just because it's much better doesn't mean that it can't get any better. I think that the sentiment of the thread is still valid. If people feel uncomfortable with the tone of posts, it's good to let it out. What I don't like is the indirect personal insults that come up. We're all different, we all post and feel differently. I wouldn't be bothered with a standard pop-up message asking if you're sure that you are being considerate, as long as it doesn't censure you, or anything.

To echo what I wrote earlier, I have the impression that a kind of clique is getting preferential treatment, while everyone deemed too different or oppositional are pushed out by shunning or personal insults. It's childish and destructive for the overall well-being of the forum, especially considering how mild mannered the forum actually is. When people start complaining about my posts being offensive -- that should be telling of how things have changed around here.

Well I don't know about that. I don't get the impression that there are any cliques or anything. I think there is a lack of staff on the forum so things are not dealt with quickly or appropriately sometimes. That is an issue that should be addressed. I think people have to understand that there are ramifications for insulting people but if that never comes then you see a lot of poor behaviour repeat itself over and over again.

So is it that we should expect people to change their behaviour, or should we expect the staff to make sure that if people are caught being way out of line that they are dealt with appropriately?

 

[j654dgj7]

So is it that we should expect people to change their behaviour, or should we expect the staff to make sure that if people are caught being way out of line that they are dealt with appropriately?

Sure, but wouldn't increased ramifications lead to people changing their behavior?

 

[SpecialEdition]

Sure, but wouldn't increased ramifications lead to people changing their behavior?

It might. Most people are certainly not going to change it all on their own.

 

[Solongo]

Since joining in 2009 - there has been many interesting groups and perspectives on the forums and plenty of moderators who also got into the tussles of debates and whatnot. I think the whole banning thing is silly to an extent but then again there doesn't seem to be any other form of punishment for disrespectful and trolling behavior.

as an infj - on an infj forum - it's obvious that many infjs are naturally conflict averse and most are in denial about it. this does contribute to the way the debates escalate or de-escalate and moderated. but the essence has always been to preserve and protect the infj-dom that the forums was built to support by non-infjs (shai gar/deathjam) - the irony. because of this an atmosphere of Ni support; Fi will dominate regardless of the topics of debate.

at times debates are needed so the person can become clear on where they stand on their views. and sometimes the debates turn into a circus of he said/she said. not much different from real life.

 

[Eventhorizon]

I had completely forgotten just how crazy the forum was a few years back. [MENTION=7838]SpecialEdition[/MENTION] is completely right.



Absolutely. There's a creepy homogenization happening to the forum right now. Most of the people that were around when I joined the forum have either left or been thrown out because they didn't fit in with the atmosphere. It's a shame, because personality diversity brings so much life to forums, something that would be gone if everyone agreed on everything, by the way.



I can get behind that. More neutral and removed admins, preferably.



What do you mean?

I do not know how I can be more clear. All faiths and associated posts need to be treated with the same respect. FairFairly simple in my mind. That or have separate areas for those discussions.

 

[j654dgj7]

as an infj - on an infj forum - it's obvious that many infjs are naturally conflict averse and most are in denial about it. this does contribute to the way the debates escalate or de-escalate and moderated. but the essence has always been to preserve and protect the infj-dom that the forums was built to support by non-infjs (shai gar/deathjam) - the irony. because of this an atmosphere of Ni support; Fi will dominate regardless of the topics of debate.

at times debates are needed so the person can become clear on where they stand on their views. and sometimes the debates turn into a circus of he said/she said. not much different from real life.

Truth. Non-INFJ's make good moderators!

I do not know how I can be more clear. All faiths and associated posts need to be treated with the same respect. FairFairly simple in my mind. That or have separate areas for those discussions.

That makes sense. I thought that you meant that all faiths had to be equally exposed. My bad!

 

[Sloe Djinn]

There's a big gray area between letting things go to shit, letting conflicts play out naturally amongst members (giving them a chance to resolve things on their own), and getting all Thought Police about it. Maybe there's a happy medium, but if some of our latest debates were shut down more quickly, it would inevitably be perceived by some as premature on the part of staff. It's not necessarily a bad thing that the forum has spawned a thread such as this to place a check on itself. I don't know how much moderation has been done behind the scenes in recent days if any, but folks aren't always that vocal about whether or not they've been addressed or infracted.

 

[sprinkles]

Sure, but wouldn't increased ramifications lead to people changing their behavior?

Not necessarily. I don't obey rules based on consequences.

In fact, the last time I got a major infraction and temporary ban, I just changed my avatar to this for a while

 

[Deleted member 10171]

What I find comical about this is that if a lot of people on the forum now had been on it a few years ago they'd probably have a mental breakdown. That infraction bin was full all the time. There were forum members telling others to slit their wrists in bathtubs, recording youtube videos and posting them publicly about sexually defiling a retired admin, there were rants and raves and attacks and all kinds of volatility on the forum that I think most people here would not believe. There were witch hunts, members who openly hated each other and there was so much personal drama I wouldn't even know where to begin to tell it.

INFJs is a nice little nook I have hung around on for since 2009 and I love this place and some of the people here but I think anyone who wants to change the tone or the content of the forum needs to realize that it's just... not happening.

That's appalling and very sad.
People never cease to amaze me. Hmmm....(translated means - I'm not in a thinking out loud mood this morning so I'll keep my thoughts to myself for now).

 

[drummergirlbk]

I can get behind that. More neutral and removed admins, preferably.

I'll second this


As far as the forum topic goes, I tend to stay away from heated debates on this forum simply because I don't have time to deal with it. A lot of days I don't even have time to spend on this forum, much less get entangled in an endless debate about something that has no effect on my life in the long run. I just ignore such threads most of the time.

 

[Wyote]

So is it that we should expect people to change their behaviour, or should we expect the staff to make sure that if people are caught being way out of line that they are dealt with appropriately?

As you said in another post in this thread, the forum has come a LONG way. Being a moderator/admin during those times was a pretty interesting experience.

Just some considerations for everyone:

Something that I'm not sure has been stated enough is that the system in place is extremely forgiving which has its pros and cons. It is largely dependent upon the community policing itself. At the same time, it is designed with the intent to be minimally disruptive to the community. INFJs are whistle blowers and if something pops up that is truly bad it will typically be reported more than once, whereas if it is a personal matter of some kind it will generally get a single report or maybe two if it is pretty mean spirited.

If you want administrative action, take some personal action. It may not get resolved as soon as you would like, but it will be dealt with.

My personal opinion is that the administration should have a more hands off approach and the system allows for this. It needed to be more aggressive when there were more serious issues and at some point in time it may need to again, but not without community interest toward it.