Regarding forum conflicts (please read)

[sprinkles]

As you said in another post in this thread, the forum has come a LONG way. Being a moderator/admin during those times was a pretty interesting experience.

Just some considerations for everyone:

Something that I'm not sure has been stated enough is that the system in place is extremely forgiving which has its pros and cons. It is largely dependent upon the community policing itself. At the same time, it is designed with the intent to be minimally disruptive to the community. INFJs are whistle blowers and if something pops up that is truly bad it will typically be reported more than once, whereas if it is a personal matter of some kind it will generally get a single report or maybe two if it is pretty mean spirited.

If you want administrative action, take some personal action. It may not get resolved as soon as you would like, but it will be dealt with.

My personal opinion is that the administration should have a more hands off approach and the system allows for this. It needed to be more aggressive when there were more serious issues and at some point in time it may need to again, but not without community interest toward it.

I think the hands off approach is best anyway.

If you take a person who doesn't know how to act and you just slap them with punishments, they don't learn why it's important to change their behavior. They just learn that they don't want to be caught.

 

[Tin Man]

I think the hands off approach is best anyway.

If you take a person who doesn't know how to act and you just slap them with punishments, they don't learn why it's important to change their behavior. They just learn that they don't want to be caught.

That's true, but going the other route where you ignore their actions isn't going to work out too well.

I don't trust people to not act like dicks (especially on the internet) so I think there should be procedures in place if someone becomes a very negative influence on a community. They shouldn't just be punished without the chance to explain themselves or without giving a clear image of why they're being punished, but without any repercussions they'll continue to act that way.

 

[sprinkles]

That's true, but going the other route where you ignore their actions isn't going to work out too well.

I don't trust people to not act like dicks (especially on the internet) so I think there should be procedures in place if someone becomes a very negative influence on a community. They shouldn't just be punished without the chance to explain themselves or without giving a clear image of why they're being punished, but without any repercussions they'll continue to act that way.

Don't ignore actions. Simply intervene for pragmatic reasons other than behavior modification.

Repercussions as behavior modifiers are pretty much bullshit all together. Deterrents do not work. If someone gets too out of hand you deal with them for pragmatic ends to eliminate whatever problem they are causing. Whether they alter their behavior or not is irrelevant.

A person who can't do the right thing without the threat of repercussions doesn't give a shit about doing the right thing in the first place.

 

[Tin Man]

Don't ignore actions. Simply intervene for pragmatic reasons other than behavior modification.

Repercussions as behavior modifiers are pretty much bullshit all together. Deterrents do not work. If someone gets too out of hand you deal with them for pragmatic ends to eliminate whatever problem they are causing. Whether they alter their behavior or not is irrelevant.

A person who can't do the right thing without the threat of repercussions doesn't give a shit about doing the right thing in the first place.

I don't think it's so black and white. Sometimes people don't realize how their attitude is affecting others. They mightn't mean to act destructive, but let their emotions get the best of them and then

Sure there are the trolls and the ignorant who want to stay that way. But I believe there are plenty more who would try to alter their behavior after being forced to face how they acted.

Like that old saying "So you act like an asshole one day. Ok you're just an asshole that day. You act like an asshole every day? Well then you're just an asshole." I think most people who act out belong more the former than the latter.

 

[sprinkles]

I don't think it's so black and white. Sometimes people don't realize how their attitude is affecting others. They mightn't mean to act destructive, but let their emotions get the best of them and then

Yes and repercussions don't prevent this because it's impulsive behavior. Or unintentional. Therefore deterrent has no effect because they don't realize they're about to get it.

Sure there are the trolls and the ignorant who want to stay that way. But I believe there are plenty more who would try to alter their behavior after being forced to face how they acted.

After the fact is hardly preventative, and people who are thoughtful to this extent should be able to get this effect from the community rather than the forum police.

Like that old saying "So you act like an asshole one day. Ok you're just an asshole that day. You act like an asshole every day? Well then you're just an asshole." I think most people who act out belong more the former than the latter.

Which is exactly why indictments are not always necessary. If you let them run their course they work out anyway. If somebody is having an off day then heavy handed enforcement is usually not required because they know they done screwed up usually.

It's the every day assholes that actually require consequences.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Yeah. It was kind of fucked up around here for a while. I think I enjoy the forum now because to me, this is a period of peace lolol. To me, everything seems pretty tame to the point that it's kind of boring. I notice that people get along much better but now there are very few distinct personalities that come around. So many people have moved on because the forum really was horrifically toxic at some point, albeit not nearly as toxic as some forums, but for a group of introverts/feelers/whatever, yeah it was not a nice place at some points. I remember some forum members had to block others from viewing their blogs even because there was no escape sometimes.

So to me.... I don't want to call this thread ridiculous but if you remember how it used to be before, the forum is actually in pretty good shape even with the lack of moderation that happens.

Ah ha!!!! I was told you cant block specific people from seeing blogs. NOW I am beginning to understand. So I have been blocked by some people here.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Not that I care that I have been blocked. Anyone who blocks me simply doesn't like the truth and I suspect I would not enjoy dealing with them any longer anyway as a result. I just think its interesting that the truth has been kept from me.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Ah ha!!!! I was told you cant block specific people from seeing blogs. NOW I am beginning to understand. So I have been blocked by some people here.

Oh you absolutely can be. I have only utilized it a couple times but yes it is possible.

 

[Eventhorizon]

Oh you absolutely can be. I have only utilized it a couple times but yes it is possible.

I see. Well its not as if I have not encountered people who prefer to live as Ostriches before. However I did pose this question to the moderators here and was told something completely different. Now the question is, why would that be?

 

[Tin Man]

Yes and repercussions don't prevent this because it's impulsive behavior. Or unintentional. Therefore deterrent has no effect because they don't realize they're about to get it.


After the fact is hardly preventative, and people who are thoughtful to this extent should be able to get this effect from the community rather than the forum police.


Which is exactly why indictments are not always necessary. If you let them run their course they work out anyway. If somebody is having an off day then heavy handed enforcement is usually not required because they know they done screwed up usually.

It's the every day assholes that actually require consequences.

I'm not saying they should be heavily reprimanded, but instead show them how their behavior is affecting other people. Maybe they'll act with a bit more self-awareness in the future. I think leaving them run that course will just result in repeating that behavior.

I was once kicked off a forum for something I posted. Nobody told me they had a problem with the weird dark shit I used to post there, and if they had I would've toned it down a bit. Instead I just went too far and they just banned me.

And that's far from the only time I've seen something like that happen. Somebody who's not out to be a troll says something inflammatory or stupid and nothing happens that causes them to reevaluate their actions. They continue in that same fashion until something stops them. You might say we should just know when we're being dicks, but sometimes you just don't see it.

 

[Wyote]

I see. Well its not as if I have not encountered people who prefer to live as Ostriches before. However I did pose this question to the moderators here and was told something completely different. Now the question is, why would that be?

Whoever you asked may not have been aware of the feature or they may have misunderstood your question. You can block people from your blogs, but not general forum content.

 

[SpecialEdition]

I see. Well its not as if I have not encountered people who prefer to live as Ostriches before. However I did pose this question to the moderators here and was told something completely different. Now the question is, why would that be?

I don't think this is something that is requested often but was something that was used more frequently when there were a lot of troubles on the forum.

Personally I feel people should be using this option because blogs here tend to be very deeply personal and should be the one truly safe spot a person can post and share with only those they choose to. If you visit the blogging tab you have more direct control over who sees your content but in the blogging section in the Lounge you have to ask for specific members to be blocked from viewing.

I had people blocked from my blog because I felt that they would abuse their access to it or I didn't trust them to respect it and treat it as MY space.

 

[sprinkles]

I'm not saying they should be heavily reprimanded, but instead show them how their behavior is affecting other people. Maybe they'll act with a bit more self-awareness in the future. I think leaving them run that course will just result in repeating that behavior.

I don't consider this to be 'repercussions' and members can do this just as well as mods. Some times even better.

I was once kicked off a forum for something I posted. Nobody told me they had a problem with the weird dark shit I used to post there, and if they had I would've toned it down a bit. Instead I just went too far and they just banned me.

That's what happens when people depend on moderators every little time their jimmies are rustled.

And that's far from the only time I've seen something like that happen. Somebody who's not out to be a troll says something inflammatory or stupid and nothing happens that causes them to reevaluate their actions. They continue in that same fashion until something stops them. You might say we should just know when we're being dicks, but sometimes you just don't see it.

Why should you listen to mods and not anyone else? Just because mods can do something to you?

When somebody says something that really bothers me, I tell them. It's seemed to work fine on you so far. Don't you remember those one or two times I told you that you'd gone too far? Would you rather I had mods handle it? I respect you too much to not tell you myself.

I'm not going to get a mod to do my dirty work for me.

 

[Tin Man]

I don't consider this to be 'repercussions' and members can do this just as well as mods. Some times even better.


That's what happens when people depend on moderators every little time their jimmies are rustled.


Why should you listen to mods and not anyone else? Just because mods can do something to you?

When somebody says something that really bothers me, I tell them. It's seemed to work fine on you so far. Don't you remember those one or two times I told you that you'd gone too far? Would you rather I had mods handle it? I respect you too much to not tell you myself.

I'm not going to get a mod to do my dirty work for me.

You make some good points. And yeah, I agree with you that punishment is a poor option for people who just make bad choices. My original post was more about everyday assholes. Though I kind of spiraled off the point a bit.

That said I still think the intervention of a mod can be far more beneficial than from a member. [MENTION=2240]rawr[/MENTION] isn't especially authoritarian, but the times he's used his special moderating voice people listen. When a topic starts to go wildly off course or become too personal, that voice has a lot of influence. I know that also comes from respect, because rawr's a cool headed guy who wouldn't say something unless he had to. Still, I think the fact that it's a source of authority speaking is also a factor.

Basically what I'm saying is, rawr for 2016. He's a future we can believe in.

 

[rawr]

careful before i hit you with my iron fist

You make some good points. And yeah, I agree with you that punishment is a poor option for people who just make bad choices. My original post was more about everyday assholes. Though I kind of spiraled off the point a bit.

That said I still think the intervention of a mod can be far more beneficial than from a member. @rawr isn't especially authoritarian, but the times he's used his special moderating voice people listen. When a topic starts to go wildly off course or become too personal, that voice has a lot of influence. I know that also comes from respect, because rawr's a cool headed guy who wouldn't say something unless he had to. Still, I think the fact that it's a source of authority speaking is also a factor.

Basically what I'm saying is, rawr for 2016. He's a future we can believe in.

 

[j654dgj7]

I'll second this


As far as the forum topic goes, I tend to stay away from heated debates on this forum simply because I don't have time to deal with it. A lot of days I don't even have time to spend on this forum, much less get entangled in an endless debate about something that has no effect on my life in the long run. I just ignore such threads most of the time.

 

[barbad0s]

I don't consider this to be 'repercussions' and members can do this just as well as mods. Some times even better.


That's what happens when people depend on moderators every little time their jimmies are rustled.


Why should you listen to mods and not anyone else? Just because mods can do something to you?

When somebody says something that really bothers me, I tell them. It's seemed to work fine on you so far. Don't you remember those one or two times I told you that you'd gone too far? Would you rather I had mods handle it? I respect you too much to not tell you myself.

I'm not going to get a mod to do my dirty work for me.

As much as I appreciate that you can be direct with others, there are many out there who are very uncomfortable with being that way.

 

[rawr]

As much as I appreciate that you can be direct with others, there are many out there who are very uncomfortable with being that way.

Playing the devil's advocate, should someone have to walk on eggshells or tone "who they are" down for fear of offending others?

It's a grey area, like many things in life i suppose.

 

[barbad0s]

Playing the devil's advocate, should someone have to walk on eggshells or tone "who they are" down for fear of offending others?

It's a grey area, like many things in life i suppose.

I do not address what "should" or "shouldn't be". I only meant to highlight the state of what IS a matter of fact.

Surely, the rest is up to every individual to decide for themselves.

 

[SpecialEdition]

Well how about this... If you feel you can do it, handle your own shit. If you feel you can't do it, let the mods handle your shit.

Every person or thread you engage with is a choice. If the conversation gets to a point you feel it is out of control or is crossing a line, deal with it up front and if it is getting to a point where it's absurd then ask a mod to mediate. That doesn't mean that a person is automatically going to get infracted, banned or otherwise punished. It just means someone steps in to tell you both to shut the fuck up for a bit and cool off like adults. If people simply can't help themselves and get all fiesty and fighty again, then infractions can happen.

To me it seems simple.