Ridiculous arguments in relationships

[Billy]

That's not been my experience with people by observing how they act and what they've done in relationships with me, as my friends, with my friends and in general. I'm not sure what sucks with women means either, but I've noticed a lot of guys are quick to want to get something down on paper pressuring their girlfriends to move faster about as much as any women I know who pressured their boyfriends. It's not just women begging to get married anymore like the stereotype suggests, I've watched men pressure just as much. Things have changed, women don't NEED to get married anymore to have the life they want so I really don't see why my experience should be any different from the norm. :shrug:

I took the suck part out because it was needlessly aggressive. But IME from the men I know, and the pressures put on men by society at large, it has seemed to be the less experienced men who still really favor marriage, thats what I mean by suck. I never really thought marriage was a good idea (in this day and age) for men... there is a great imbalance of power in marriage as far as things go with divorces and who gets the kids. But then, I also grew watching a severely unhealthy marriage that should have disintegrated a million times somehow stick it out... I never want to live that life. Arguing every day, hating the person you're supposed to love, resenting the choices you made etc.

Of all the men I know, most of them see marriage as kind of a joke. Men don't need marriage to have kids anymore. Its easy enough to find someone to knock up and not marry her and still get the SAME rights as a father as you would if you were married. Plus... there is the whole PUA community and men over 30 are marrying in record low numbers. By all accounts from what I have seen in the sociological stuff I have read has been that its not women not wanting to get married, its the men not "man-ing up".

I am not saying that some men aren't still willing or even want to do it, I am sure there is. (its my opinion that these are inexperienced men, its conjecture, but its what I have seen personally)

Marriage in general seems to be becoming obsolete. And thank god for that IMO... financially tying yourself to someone until death or divorce? HOW CAN IT END WELL? Its not possible... Unless you're in one of those mythic unicorn rarity relationships that works forever. It seems like a gigantic gamble. Most Americans are waking up to that I think... men especially so. There will always be people who want to "be normal" which is what I think married people think they are being. (conjecture again) But, the rules of marriage are not written for this time period. They are out of date.

 

[CindyLou]

[MENTION=1451]Billy[/MENTION] did you read the book "Manning Up: How The Rise of Women Have Turned Men Into Boys" ?

Just curious since you used the term Man up.

I agree somewhat, though there are some serious tax benefits to getting married that make it worth considering still

 

[Billy]

@Billy did you read the book "Manning Up: How The Rise of Women Have Turned Men Into Boys" ?

Just curious since you used the term Man up.

I agree somewhat, though there are some serious tax benefits to getting married that make it worth considering still

No I never read that, is it any good? I tend to read more articles than books, although I did read "the war against boys" which is related but different of course and focuses more on how the system is ignoring the needs of males in favor of the needs of women and how men are viewed as disposable. Male disposability is not a new topic.

Don't those marital tax benefits really only kick in once you have kids? At that point I would think the risk of becoming divorced, having my kids taken from me and then being forced into paying for them, while my ex and her new bf take a vacation with the money seems to outweigh the possible tax benefits which never really amount to much in the first place. As a single guy its easier to just go out and drum up some extra work if I need the $$$.

Every man has a fairly innate understanding of what "manning up" means in society. It basically is a way for women and politicians to say "STFU your needs are not as valid as the women, and the collective". Men are rapidly beginning to disagree with that sentiment and doing more for themselves. I say about time.

The whole chivalry. man-up thing only works in a patriarchal society in which it benefits men to be disposable but still retain some form of control. Take away that incentive and the equation becomes imbalanced and there is no reason to get married anymore. Tax benefits are a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE reason to get married. Right up there with "LOVE" LMAO.

 

[JGirl]

haha it's so typical! Maybe you should make public sweets and private secret sweets! I hide my sweets from myself too - one of the absurd things I do.

ok maybe i should put this on the confession thread, but i hid an entire box of snack sized candy bars that i didn't give out for hallowe'en last night
they are mine!!!!

 

[CindyLou]

No I never read that, is it any good? I tend to read more articles than books, although I did read "the war against boys" which is related but different of course and focuses more on how the system is ignoring the needs of males in favor of the needs of women and how men are viewed as disposable. Male disposability is not a new topic.

Don't those marital tax benefits really only kick in once you have kids? At that point I would think the risk of becoming divorced, having my kids taken from me and then being forced into paying for them, while my ex and her new bf take a vacation with the money seems to outweigh the possible tax benefits which never really amount to much in the first place. As a single guy its easier to just go out and drum up some extra work if I need the $$$.

Every man has a fairly innate understanding of what "manning up" means in society. It basically is a way for women and politicians to say "STFU your needs are not as valid as the women, and the collective". Men are rapidly beginning to disagree with that sentiment and doing more for themselves. I say about time.

The whole chivalry. man-up thing only works in a patriarchal society in which it benefits men to be disposable but still retain some form of control. Take away that incentive and the equation becomes imbalanced and there is no reason to get married anymore. Tax benefits are a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE HORRIBLE reason to get married. Right up there with "LOVE" LMAO.

LMAO

You might like it. It's a bit feminnazi-ish but not as bad as Maureen Dowd's "Are Men Necessary". that is a gem

I agree tax breaks are not a good reason to get married, but I would be lying if I wouldn't run the numbers a bunch of different ways anyway just to see. It's like a little girl in the 50's writing her name with her boyfriend's last name!

Mainly I was saying that women today are not begging to get married anymore like they used to in the past. They are off doing things their mothers were not able to do. I've seen men pressure women to marry and I've experienced it myself.

 

[Vict]

Some years back, the girl I was with asked me to talk about my family and our trips to Mexico, so I did. I described the drives down--back when we used to drive there. Road trips in classic Impalas and big vans. It was mostly desert and sweaty people in a small space. Anyway, we stopped driving down there after one of my uncles and his family were pulled over by what they thought was a cop car but turned out to be bandits. They took all of their baggage and money and nearly kidnapped my cousin--his daughter. My uncle basically told them to fuck off or kill them all, but he wouldn't leave her to them. So they took the stuff and left them and their car.

This led to me talking about how I'd still drive down there on my own. How I wasn't afraid, yadda yadda. I went on for a few minutes and she was just quiet, so I asked her why she was quiet. She fucking exploded. Went on about how selfish I was for taking risks like that. That I wasn't being considerate, the thoughtlessness of it, etc. And me being me, I felt it's up to me to take any stupid risk I like. Why should she or anyone dictate that? I'll go where I wish. So she got more and more hurt, and I got more and more stubborn, and I left. I just remember being furious as hell. I apologized later and we talked about it. I didn't relent on my point, but I agreed with hers. We made up and were together for a while after.

 

[Sriracha]

Do you have kids?
I hear that from people that have kids.
I think one of the best things is to sit in a room with her. We don't have to say a word. We can read, play on our phones,
sit in silence. Sometimes we are in different parts of the house. I'm busy doing what I want, but know she's around, somewhere. But I get a lot of alone time. So that might make a difference.

I've mentioned it before, but since my husband travels ... I am used to the coming and going. It's like yin and yang. When he's around too much it messes with my Chi ... when he's away too long it messes with my Chi too. LOL There is no way this marriage would work if I was co-dependent or "needed" him constantly (which is why he married a woman who is independent and enjoys her alone time.)

 

[Rferraris]

I've mentioned it before, but since my husband travels ... I am used to the coming and going. It's like yin and yang. When he's around too much it messes with my Chi ... when he's away too long it messes with my Chi too. LOL There is no way this marriage would work if I was co-dependent or "needed" him constantly (which is why he married a woman who is independent and enjoys her alone time.)

It sounds very healthy and codependency is never a good thing.
It just read to me like more and was hoping I was wrong.

 

[Sriracha]

It sounds very healthy and codependency is never a good thing.
It just read to me like more and was hoping I was wrong.

We really RARELY argue about anything major (major=money, sex, kids.) It's usually only petty things. I don't nag him. I don't ask for much, I pretty much do everything ... except "fix it" items. When that takes too long I just threaten to open the shed, touch his tools and do it myself.

I do get irritated (as I do with the kids) when he finishes off eating/drinking something and doesn't write it down or tell me. Example, husband comes home from work late and guzzles the last bit of milk in the fridge. I learn in the morning there is no milk for the kids' cereal. It is what it is, and it IS petty ... but it always irritates me. This is probably why I have learned over time to do a grocery store run the day he is expected to come home, and stock the fridge with things he likes to eat.

 

[CindyLou]

We really RARELY argue about anything major (major=money, sex, kids.) It's usually only petty things. I don't nag him. I don't ask for much, I pretty much do everything ... except "fix it" items. When that takes too long I just threaten to open the shed, touch his tools and do it myself.

I do get irritated (as I do with the kids) when he finishes off eating/drinking something and doesn't write it down or tell me. Example, husband comes home from work late and guzzles the last bit of milk in the fridge. I learn in the morning there is no milk for the kids' cereal. It is what it is, and it IS petty ... but it always irritates me. This is probably why I have learned over time to do a grocery store run the day he is expected to come home, and stock the fridge with things he likes to eat.

I had a hard time thinking of anything (probably because I just don't want to remember) but I do remember one dumb argument with J my husband at the time.

He was making a large deposit for me through ATM.

To me a 5k check is a large check. It was at the time and I still consider it a large check. To me, the ATM deposit is for small deposits under 1k. I figure everyone is like this and would go inside for a large deposit or at least use the drive through. When I logged on later, I saw that it was an ATM deposit. For whatever reason I got really mad. I called him and asked him if he seriously deposited that check through an ATM. I asked him wtf was wrong with him? What was wrong with him that he wouldn't feel like I felt to feel like he ought to go inside. I'm pretty sure I used those words too. I remember saying "You mean you just didn't get that feeling that you probably shouldn't deposit a check that size through the ATM and look someone in the eye and they look at you?" Oh my god. Lol. He was like "What's the big deal?" and I said "I'm sure there is a sign or something with deposit limits" of course there's not. LOL, poor guy. There's no problem making large deposits through ATM but I already had made him feel like an idiot and he even apologized! See why I'm alone?

ooooh cindy and her big money thinking her 5k is so special it needs to be taken 'inside'

 

[Sriracha]

Geez, here I go again. LOL I suppose mainly b/c I'm living in it.

If he has lost an item, kids have lost an item or an item is just "lost" ... he will ruthlessly search for said item and expect everyone to partake in the event. His mind can't rest until it is found. I don't know if it is a blame game, b/c then when it is found we know who had their hands on it last. This goes for insignificant items as well ... obviously nothing is insignificant to him. I don't mind helping to look for the item, but if it if makes us late for something you can bet an argument will begin.

Pretty much if we are doing anything and he begins barking orders, he has learned to stop after I call him out on it and walk away. That has taken a long time to condition. Really one of the only times I cannot stand to be around him is when he gets in his focused aggressive mode (with handling things.) His situation becomes everyone's problem. I get the focused aggressive mode as well, but the difference is that I handle it myself and expect everyone to stay out of my way.

But like I said before, it's not like this happens regularly ... maybe a few times a month. It takes a long time to modify your behavior for someone else ... it's the "work" part of marriage. It isn't always fun, but it is worth it. You know, I feel somewhat bad sharing these things b/c he is not here to defend himself or point out all my flaws. I know I have many. He's a good guy. I don't want to paint him in a negative light, it's just nice venting.

 

[JGirl]

Geez, here I go again. LOL I suppose mainly b/c I'm living in it.

If he has lost an item, kids have lost an item or an item is just "lost" ... he will ruthlessly search for said item and expect everyone to partake in the event. His mind can't rest until it is found. I don't know if it is a blame game, b/c then when it is found we know who had their hands on it last. This goes for insignificant items as well ... obviously nothing is insignificant to him. I don't mind helping to look for the item, but if it if makes us late for something you can bet an argument will begin.

Pretty much if we are doing anything and he begins barking orders, he has learned to stop after I call him out on it and walk away. That has taken a long time to condition. Really one of the only times I cannot stand to be around him is when he gets in his focused aggressive mode (with handling things.) His situation becomes everyone's problem. I get the focused aggressive mode as well, but the difference is that I handle it myself and expect everyone to stay out of my way.

But like I said before, it's not like this happens regularly ... maybe a few times a month. It takes a long time to modify your behavior for someone else ... it's the "work" part of marriage. It isn't always fun, but it is worth it. You know, I feel somewhat bad sharing these things b/c he is not here to defend himself or point out all my flaws. I know I have many. He's a good guy. I don't want to paint him in a negative light, it's just nice venting.

is your husband a scorpio by any chance?
i go through this with mike too, but i think it's kind of my own fault because i've purposely made him dependent on me. he does not know where anything is, and i'm ok with that for the most part, but when he goes on a 'finding' mission the world has to stop and join in.
i'll let him hunt around for a bit then casually walk over and 'find' said item, wordlessly hand it to him and walk away.

 

[sassafras]

I'm not usually someone who you can get a rise out of easily, but there are a few people in my life that are particularly talented at bringing out my argumentative side and I end up fighting with them almost as much as I enjoy spending time with them. These arguments aren't ever anything serious and most of the time, they end up being isolated incidents wherein we forget it even happened.

 

[JGirl]

i really don't like to argue at all. actually that's not true, i like to argue points and philosophies, but the rest is just bickering and it makes me miserable.
when i am in an altercation with someone i find it frustrating because they mostly argue from their heart. i have to filter through a lot of subjective crap to get at what the problem really is and by then i'm just done with it.

 

[Cerce]

Well, in my very short experience with relationships, the only fights I've ever gotten into was with my girlfriend refusing to go to church. Well, that, and calling my mother certain names I won't repeat, but it's over now, so

 

[JGirl]

Well, in my very short experience with relationships, the only fights I've ever gotten into was with my girlfriend refusing to go to church. Well, that, and calling my mother certain names I won't repeat, but it's over now, so

no offense, but you actually argued with your girlfriend because she didn't want to go to church? really, isn't that up to her?

 

[Cerce]

no offense, but you actually argued with your girlfriend because she didn't want to go to church? really, isn't that up to her?

It is. It's also my choice as to who I will or won't date, and I'm not going to live my life with someone who does not share the same basic beliefs with me, or who at the very least won't make an attempt to change. And besides, this is 'Rediculous Arguments'. Of course I was stupid, and I didn't handle the situation very well.

But... seriously, what was I supposed to do? Just let bygones be bygones and let her go shopping while I go to church? That's not exactly conductive to a long-lasting relationship in my perspective.

 

[JGirl]

It is. It's also my choice as to who I will or won't date, and I'm not going to live my life with someone who does not share the same basic beliefs with me, or who at the very least won't make an attempt to change. And besides, this is 'Rediculous Arguments'. Of course I was stupid, and I didn't handle the situation very well.

But... seriously, what was I supposed to do? Just let bygones be bygones and let her go shopping while I go to church? That's not exactly conductive to a long-lasting relationship in my perspective.

well with all due respect, i would say that two people can absolutely have a good relationship even if they don't share the same religious views.
perhaps not in your case, but it is possible. it's got to do with allowing people to find their own path with regard to their spiritual selves.
in any case, you have the right to not choose to have a relationship with someone who does not share your beliefs. i just thought it was strange that anyone would argue over church. sorry

 

[Cerce]

well with all due respect, i would say that two people can absolutely have a good relationship even if they don't share the same religious views.
perhaps not in your case, but it is possible. it's got to do with allowing people to find their own path with regard to their spiritual selves.
in any case, you have the right to not choose to have a relationship with someone who does not share your beliefs. i just thought it was strange that anyone would argue over church. sorry

*He laughs slightly, waiving her down to calm her* It's alright, it's fine. I know I'm not always right. But the thing is - I'm not interested in a 'good relationship'. I'm interested in a long-lasting relationship. One that lasts beyond death. Something between me, my future wife, my children, and God himself. Something pure, and with God as the cornerstone. As I've said elsewhere, I may be a bit overly romantic about all this, but still. I'm not going to stay with someone who considers Christianity a mental disease.

 

[JGirl]

[MENTION=6646]Cerce[/MENTION]

I'm not going to stay with someone who considers Christianity a mental disease.

well in that case i can't say i blame you!