[INFJ] Satanists

Ren said:
Well I can, because I'm a fictionalist. :D

You're on the right track though. The fallacy in the proof has to do with existence.
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Another problem too is that Satan is not actually the opposite of god in the way you defined him - at least in the biblical idea of him. He’s just a very very naughty boy.
 
I actually don't know anything about Satanism so have started reading their website. So far, this seems reasonable to me:
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth
by Anton Szandor LaVey

© 1967

  1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
  2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
  3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
  4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
  5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
  6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
  7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
  8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
  9. Do not harm little children.
  10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
  11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.
I don't think Satanists actually worship Satan in the way Christians worship God. Maybe I am wrong about this.
 
John K said:
Another problem too is that Satan is not actually the opposite of god in the way you defined him - at least in the biblical idea of him. He’s just a very very naughty boy.
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Indeed :sweatsmile:

There are many flaws in the proof, but I wanted to have a bit of fun at Satan's expense. I'm sure he won't mind.

Existence is not an attribute. Kant proved this, though I can't remember the detail of the proof. But it makes intuitive sense, and transpires in logical notation as well. Existence is captured not in the predicate but in the existential quantifier, as in:

∃x P(x)

The attribute of x is captured by P, but existence is captured by ∃. "For some x, x is P". Existence lies outside of predication and thus of attributes.
 
hail-satan-doc.jpg


Hail Satan? (2019) ....4/5.... Really good documentary that follows the rise and growth of the Satanic Temple. These aren't your grandpa's satanists, these satanists hand out socks and tampons. Just a great exploration in the absurdity of religious inequality in the United States and how the Christians have convinced themselves that their religion is the one the nation was founded upon----except just doing some light research, you'd learn that the founding fathers did everything to emphasize that not one single religion represents or SHOULD represent the nation. The documentary focuses on the widely reported debate of whether government buildings should erect Ten Commandment monuments on their property and how other religions (including Satanists) should have the same right to erect monuments that honor their God(s) and is why we have a separation of State and Church for good reason, and the Satanic Temple is using the same language in legislation that protects the Christian believer to protect their own beliefs, as instructed by the Constitution. Whether you believe in God or not, everyone should have their God represented. The documentary also shows how ill-informed the Christian is about how far their religion has been adopted by the USA, as most don't realize or care to know that the phrase “In God We Trust" and just “God” being mentioned in the things like the pledge of allegiance, were both the result of Americans designating the Russians and communists as non-Christians during the Cold War, basically telling the low IQ Americans that “Communists worship Satan while we love the Jesus”, that is the only reason in 1956 the USA began printing the word “GOD” all over the currency. The Satanic Temple has a mission to educate the public regarding that and the dangers of one single religion encroaching on legislation. After all, the biggest commandment, "Thou Shall Not Kill", is cherry picked daily by the most 'blessed' nation on the planet. One of the most shocking moments was learning that some of the actual Ten Commandment monuments found around the country, including the first one they had at the state capital in Arkansas, all come from get this......THE TEN COMMANDMENT’S MOVIE PROMOTION MATERIALS!!! Yes...the monuments were left over from the Paramount pictures promotion of the Charlton Heston's The Ten Commandments movie. You see, when the film was being promoted, a bunch of those monuments were sent to be placed outside theaters, but once the film came and went, the studio had all these Ten Commandment monuments left over and they decided to donate them to churches and some of them found their way into the hands of Senators and Governors. Interesting stuff.

Best Moment: When they revisit the Satanic Panic of the 80's fueled by Jesus followers where they reported to the media that child sexual abuse was running rampant amongst the Satanists....but turns out when you look at the same criminal activity and pedophilia cases of that same period, guess which group was ACTUALLY SEXUALLY ABUSING CHILDREN???? Yes, if you guessed the Christian religious group then you would be correct, turns out the church was the one group protecting and covering up for their disgusting priests....TALK ABOUT PROJECTING!!! They pointed fingers and told the world the Satanists were molesting children and it was actually them that were the child sexual abusers!!! Wow!!! That hit me like a ton of bricks.
 
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Ren said:
Actually I think I have a proof for the non-existence of Satan.

1. Perfection is the possession of all attributes (no lack)
2. Existence is an attribute
3. By 1) and 2), a being would be less than perfect if it didn't exist
4. God is a perfect being
5. By 3) and 4), God must exist
6. Satan is the opposite of God
7. The opposite of a being possesses the opposite attributes
8. By 5) and 7), Satan possesses the opposite of existence
9. By 8), Satan must not exist.

Take that, Satanists!
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You have just described Satanism.

Well done, you lose.
 
A quick very concise description of Satanism is a follows:
No god, no devils, no magic, only science. Its atheism with balls.
All symbols are to be antagonistic to theologians
Don't hurt kids
Don't force your ideas on others
Self empowerment
Fulfills emotion rituals missing from nihilism
No post christian morality
LBGT+ since inception (1966).
Focus on being alive and no obsession with death and death cult like beliefs.
No self denile or shame.
 
detectivepope said:
Info needed is contained in the Satanic Bible. If you are interested I have it on pdf.
there are a few basic concepts below
The nine satanic statements: https://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-statements/
The eleven Satanic rules of earth: https://www.churchofsatan.com/eleven-rules-of-earth/
The nine Satanic sins: https://www.churchofsatan.com/nine-satanic-sins/
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I defy the statements thus:

Points 1,4,5,6 - I don't understand why doing away with temperance and patience is a virtue or any other sign of strength. It smacks strongly of misanthropy, weakness of character and willpower, and just general victimization of self. It's the man who can take a beating and keep going who is strong, not the one who blows a fuse in the face of everything. When someone wants to lash out at any minor inconvenience to his ego, he's hardly a paragon of power - in fact, he wants to punish all of humanity for not being as weak as himself.

Point 2 - Spiritual pipe dreams make for a vital existence. The problem of nihilism isn't simply the lack of emotional rituals as you have said, but the lack of reverence for eternity and the absolute. It isn't the man who can only see as far as his latest hobby stretches - it's the man who sees as far as the entire universe goes who has the material health of the entire universe. Don't tell me that the crusaders and the architects of the houses of God, and the men who called for a journey to the New Jerusalem lacked in vigor.

Point 3 - Anyone who professes to see, or even to know wisdom, is deceiving himself. No wise man has ever reached the finality of his wisdom to truly define what is wisdom. As paradoxical as that may be, it is also the case that truth is stranger than fiction.

Point 7 - Well, at least Satanist have the good taste to indulge in some self-deprecation, as I can't think of any dogma as anything less than spiritual and intellectual development.

Point 8 - They don't lead to gratification, they start with gratification. This is unsustainable for the same reason that hedonism is unsustainable. Happiness is a byproduct of a purposeful action, not contained within the action itself, and for that reason their purpose must be well justified. I don't see how greed, sloth, or gluttony are justified in the long term.

Point 9 - Because he served to stoke the zeal in the faithful, which in turn brings us back to point 2. And at any rate, I don't see how this is an argument for Satan. Disease has kept the doctors in business all these years too.
 
The Nine Satanic Sins on the other hand are pretty interesting. Can't say much against what's listed and how it's described.

My main concern is with this faint undercurrent of spitefulness that pervades a lot of the words.
 
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